RWS & Geco ammo in "exotic/wildcat" calibers.

Cass

A topic of conversation came up today while talking with Jim Griffin (gun dealer in Tullamore). What calibers are there that would be considered exotic or wildcat, and how available is the ammo choice for these.

He explained to me that he was considering bringing in some ammo for the more popular calibers from the manufacturers above as he gets calls about any ammo he might stock for them, but i could only think of a couple then ran out of calibers. So my question. What calibers do you have that would be considered exotic or wildcat, and how available is ammo for you.

I have added as many calibers in the poll as i can think off, but no doubt there are many i have forgotten. So as you think of those i've missed let me know and i'll update the poll.

Now we were not talking about a once off or rare caliber, but calibers that are becoming increasingly common, but still would not be considered "standard" (So not .223, .243, .6.5, .270, .308, etc). Then maybe a post here as to how available your ammo choices are, and what you would like to see available for your given caliber. Also if you know of anyone using such a caliber, and can add to the info then please feel free to post away.

Thanks.

tac foley

So-called 'Wildcat' ammunition, but its very name, is not factory-made.

Some wildcat calibres have ended up being factory-made, but are then just called factory ammunition.

tac

Cass

All this i know. I could not think of an appropriate way to describe what i wanted to know. Hence the reason i said wildcat, exotic, etc. IOW what ever name you want to place on the caliber.

tac foley

Ezridax wrote: »

All this i know. I could not think of an appropriate way to describe what i wanted to know. Hence the reason i said wildcat, exotic, etc. IOW what ever name you want to place on the caliber.

'kay. I think that you should include .204 Ruger there, and the new .17 Hornet that has bombed here in UK.

tac

rowa

I didn't know geco ammunition was available in ireland , whats it like ?

Cass

I don't know if anyone is stocking it, but after speaking with Jim yesterday it was something he was thinking off, but only if there is enough of a demand. Obviously some of the more common calibers can be gotten too, but it would be silly to pass up the opportunity to get in some of the harder to get caliber rounds.

Cass

I'm not asking what they don't make.

I am asking what calibers people shoot, that would be considered an odd caliber and how easy or difficult they find it to get ammo.

Cass

tac foley wrote: »

............ but there are FAR more choices of calibres and types of bullets available from PPU in those calibres that you call common, as well as a good few other European calibres that RUAG also makes at a higher price than PPU.

tac

The reason behind this thread was personal curiosity. The common calibers such as .223, .243, .308, etc, etc have a plentiful supply.

The info i'm looking for is how many other "non common/standard" calibers are out there. How easy is it to get ammo for it? Would people see a need for a steady supply of ammo in these "unusual" calibers.

i only mention the two manufacturers above as they happened to come up in the conversation.

rowa

Geco make .243 win in a target round with 50 rounds to a box. I know the .243 is as common as muck but i have never heard of a target round for it, so must be classed as unusual surely ?

http://www.geco-ammunition.com/centerfire-cartridges/choose-your-caliber/243-win/

The Aussie

Ezridax wrote: »

The info i'm looking for is how many other "non common/standard" calibers are out there. How easy is it to get ammo for it? Would people see a need for a steady supply of ammo in these "unusual" calibers.

Im thinking about reeling in the years and going back to a 22-250, just been thinking about it for the last while, how available is the ammunition in 55g SBT.

Nico13

Hi all, i use a 7x64 and will not let it go! even if ammo are impossible to get over here ( i mean from a local rfd ) it is very easy to get them imported from the continent at a resonnable price ( 7x64 r not cheap anyway) i use norma accubond in 140g and they are the dog b****x

tac foley

If you are asking if RUAG make a .22-250, they don't. Nor do GECO.

All of GECO's so-called 'Target' ammunition comes with FMJ bullets, rather than the soft-point stuff used for game shooting. Maybe you are permitted to shoot game with FMJ centre-fire ammunition in Ireland, but in the UK and most other places it is deemed inhumane.

tac

tac foley

There seem to be a lot of .220 Swift in Ireland, though.

tac

Double Barrel

Hey Ezridax, thanks for starting this thread.

Norma & RWS, 7X57R AND 7X57.

dbrock

jesus glad i dont own any of them, i struggle to find .270 weatherby mag rounds

tac foley

dbrock wrote: »

jesus glad i dont own any of them, i struggle to find .270 weatherby mag rounds

Then you are exactly the sort of person that Ezridax is hoping will respond to his thread starter.:)

From my own POV I'm very pleased to see some of you shooting the old 7x57 Mauser cartridge. I restrict my shooting of this great old cartridge to plinking in my old guns, and the annual charging balloon shoot, but it's a cracking round that will take anything in Ireland on four legs, depending on the load.

tac

Cass

I have updated the poll to include your calibre, dbrock.

I was trying to keep to the "regular" calibers, but after seeing some posts from other threads, and remembering what lads had said at the last few comps i thought i would update the poll.

I have included an option for .243 & .270 but in target ammo only . It seems a lot of lads struggle to get decent quality in certain "standard" calibers. So if you have a regular caliber that you are forced to use hunting ammo for when you want to do a little target shooting then please inform me, and i'll edit as necessary.

tac foley

Ezridax, your last post is interesting. Do you mean that you are permitted to shoot soft-point ammunition on target ranges in Ireland?

tac

It wasn't me!

tac foley wrote: »

Ezridax, your last post is interesting. Do you mean that you are permitted to shoot soft-point ammunition on target ranges in Ireland?

tac

Yes we are.

rowa

tac foley wrote: »

Ezridax, your last post is interesting. Do you mean that you are permitted to shoot soft-point ammunition on target ranges in Ireland?

tac

Yes permitted to use very expensive hunting ammo because cheaper fmj isn't available , until now hopefully.

Vegeta

Ezridax wrote: »

So if you have a regular caliber that you are forced to use hunting ammo for when you want to do a little target shooting then please inform me, and i'll edit as necessary.

.300 winchester magnum, pricing is everything I suppose

tac foley

I can readily see the benefits of the availability of the so-called 'target' grade ammunition then. You are very lucky in Ireland to be able to shoot expanding ammunition on a rifle range - in most countries it is prohibited. However, when you are eventually allowed to reload, even the mighty .300Win Mag makes a VERY fine target round - anti-social that's true, but excellent nonetheless. You can expect substantially less than a hundred rounds per pound of powder - .with .308Win, substantially more than 150-160.

tac

Vegeta

Ezridax if a minimum order quantity is required, give us a shout. If people wanted to organise a group buy on .300 win mag ammo then I'd be game for it.

jay.b

i dont think you'd call it exotic but the 7mm08 is is quite rare to find on the shelf in most dealers. i went into one dealers and asked for 7mm08 ammunition and he asked me was it airsoft i was looking for????:rolleyes:

tac foley

Phew, that's a rare one everywhere! Here and in CN and USA I don't know anybody who has one...

Who made the rifle?

tac

ejg

Geco has as far as I know a 223FMJ target round but for the larger calibres
they just pack 50 of there norml soft points in a box and call them target.
http://www.sport-jagdwaffen.de/products/de/Munition/Gewehr-Patrone-TM/Geco-308-Win-Target-50.html?refID=gb
Many German hunters buy the target packet because it is much cheaper and
is the same cartridge.
Wonder if they would sell these to the UK as target or even just the soft point
bullets as target "heads"....would upset the UK law somewhat??:D
edi

ps... I always wondered if 257 roberts ammo is available. ? Would make a fine sika cartridge.

tac foley

ejg wrote: »

Wonder if they would sell these to the UK as target or even just the soft point
bullets as target "heads"....would upset the UK law somewhat??:D
edi

They ARE sold in the UK - my local dealer has them all, but just talking to him now, they are as popular as dogburgers. This is because they are -

a. STILL very expensive.

b. A product that is trying to compete [or not] with homeloading.

I don't know anybody who uses them, and I shoot at least four times a week in a club with almost 250 members of whom well over 50% are game shooters. Every one of them also has a couple of 'target' rifles, or also shoot their stalking/game rifles with FMJ ammunition.

Moving on - I'm not certain what you mean about upsetting UK law.

In UK, if, like me, you are a target shooter only, then you are prohibited from purchasing ANY form of soft-point or expanding bullet, either as factory ammunition or as a component for reloading/handloading. The only 'good reason' you can possibly have for needing expanding ammunition is for game shooting. Here in UK game shooting is one of the 'Good Reasons' that, in law, you have to satisfy to be permitted to shoot game with a rifle. Since any and all centre-fire or rimfire rifle ammunition is only sold face-to-face, unlike the RoI where you can buy it by mail, having sent a copy of your gun license, you cannot break the law by buying ammunition OR components that are not on your Firearms Certificate, or 'ticket' as it is commonly called, which is clearly annotated with the type and amount that you are allowed to have in your possession at any one time.

Note that although you can buy more bullets than you are allowed to hold as made-up ammunition, in preparation for reloading, the law requires YOU to enter the number of expanding rounds that you have made on your own FAC. Exeeding your limit and getting [somehow] caught will land you in deep doo-doo. BTW, unlike the RoI, empty cases here are not counted as live ammunition. I hope they never are, as I have about a thousand or more stashed away of each of seven different calibres.

As I noted before on this thread, most rifle ranges in UK are TARGET rifle ranges, and therefore do not allow expanding ammunition to be shot on them. There are a few authorised ranges that allow the occasional shooter game-shooter to zero his rifle, like ours, which is one of only THREE 100m civilian gallery ranges in the UK , but this is usually a once a year thing for the shooter concerned [like yesterday, when a visiting shooter turned up with a .275 Rigby/7mm Mauser that he had just inherited] TBH, I have never understood how the shooting of ten rounds of expanding ammunition into a 100 wide backstop with 2000 tons of sand in it is going to cause a wobble in the earth's rotation.

tac
vcrai.com

tac foley

.257 Roberts factory ammunition -

Remington CoreLokt - 100 and 117gr roundnosed bullet.

Winchester Powerpoint - spitzer bullet.

Hornady 120gr Light Magnum

Nosler 120gr partition bullet.

Loads of luck finding them anywhere, including the USA and Canada. The US/Can websites are filled shooters of this fine calibre asking where they can get ammunition.

tac

It wasn't me!

Have seen .257 Roberts ammo here (Lovely little cartridge by the way, definitely demands a sleek, classic sporter). If you know someone who needs it, PM me and I'll send on the dealer details.

rowa

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Have seen .257 Roberts ammo here (Lovely little cartridge by the way, definitely demands a sleek, classic sporter). If you know someone who needs it, PM me and I'll send on the dealer details.

I seen a fair few rifles in .257 roberts when the ban was lifted on centrefires over .22 cal, seems to be a nice little round but the .243 etc are probabily as good and easier to get ammo for.

ejg

Tac what I meant, if Rottweil would sell the bullets that are used in their 308 geco target cartridges
to the UK as target bullets. One could buy a well expanding soft point bullet legally as a target bullet through the post.
edi

It wasn't me!

rowa wrote: »

I seen a fair few rifles in .257 roberts when the ban was lifted on centrefires over .22 cal, seems to be a nice little round but the .243 etc are probabily as good and easier to get ammo for.

Yeah, the .243 is what killed it, which is a shame. I can't really say why, but I've never had much of a soft spot for the .243, while I think the .257 Roberts is just a classy little thing. Demands a sleek little Mauser sporter. Also demands handloading, really. Load up a 115gr Partition to about 2800-2820 and go whack all the deer you want! I'm hoping to chronograph my own .25-06 soon, but I'd suspect with its 22" barrel it's not doing a whole lot better, and has more recoil and muzzle blast, so a Roberts is something I could really get behind.

ejg

I have an old long action remmy adl here that I could rebarrell and the roberts
would be one choice. Idea was to make a very light stock, my lightweight 2.5-8x36 leupold and a 22" fluted begara barrel. Now that I sold my 243's....
edi

ejg

Tac, just the point I'm making. It also depends on What the manufacturer calls them.
Like Berger VLD and A-Max hunting bullets classed as target bullets in the UK.
Upset the applecart somewhat didn't it.
I think the UK Law does not quite fit in to what is on the market.
Now you have Geco classing a soft point as a target round.
edi

Vegeta

tac foley wrote: »

Berger VLD bullets are categorically NOT used for hunting.

In the UK or worldwide? If the latter I have watched many videos which would contradict you.

ejg

....back to the thread...
not much target ammo around for 243's. Especially something that will
work in a standard 1/10 twist factory barrels. Something in the region of 80-95gr boat tail.
edi

tomcat220t

tac foley wrote: »

Sir, here in wacky UK, I can actually buy Nosler red-tipped bullets, but not the green tipped bullets. When you find out what the exact difference is, perhaps you'll let me know. Needless to say I don't buy anything except FMJ bullets, as I only shoot paper.

However, as previously stated, it does not matter what the manufacturer calls them, but NO exposed lead soft point expanding ammunition or bullets can be acquired by any person who is NOT authorised to possess them. Berger VLD bullets are categorically NOT used for hunting. The tiny hole at the end of any target bullet is an aerodynamic aid to accuracy, not a part of an expanding or fragmenting intention.

As I mentioned in a previous post, here in UK, as in many other countries, the use of FMJ centre-fire ammuntion on live game is prohibited as it is deemed inhumane. If in doubt, please check the British Deer Society and the BASC guidelines.

BTW, GECO, RWS, Dynamit Nobel, Norma, Rottweil, Brenneke et al do not sell bullets in UK, just factory ammunition.

The following US bullet manufacturers have recently moved into full factory ammunition production - Hornady, Speer, Nosler

The following bullet manufacturers sell bullets in the UK - Nosler, Speer, Hornady, Berger, Lapua, JLK, Sellier & Bellot, Prvi Partizan, and Sierra. No doubt there are others I've left out, but you get the idea.

tac

Hi Tac,can you elaborate more on your comment about a tiny hole been an aid to accuracy,please
Regards ,tomcat .

Cass

Was on to Jim today about some rings, and he told me he got the first of the new Geco ammo in.

He went for some .223 because it was available quickly, and it was first to come in. The call got cut off so not sure on the rest, but i'll be speaking to him on Saturday, and let you know if he has or is getting other calibers in, and when.

The .223 is 55gr, and he says it's €33 per 50. FMJ. So good for plinking/target, and as cheap as American Eagle. If anyone has shot it i'll see if i can get a review or some pictures of groups.

badshot

a neighbour of mine uses a .257 weatherby magnum
he finds it very difficult to get ammo