Young Hopes 2012/2013

CIARAN_BOYLE

Ok I just wanted a threat to talk about the young players that we have hopes for in the next season. Whether these hopes are that they earn international caps or that they do well at underage level or that they break through for their provinces.

Prop
McGrath (22)
McAlister(23)
Buckley(21)
Kilcoyne(23)
Each province has a young loosehead that I expect to come through in a big way withing the next year.

McGrath will be aiming to lay down a marker showing the Leinster management that Heinke will not be missed when his contract expires at the end of the season and even to take bench LH spot from VDM.

McAlister is capable of putting pressure on Court and pushing for the starting LH spot in Ulster.

I want to Buckley continue to get gametime and be the second choice LH for the season.

Kilcoyne is a good talent and I really think that he can push through in Munster and get ahead of Horan becoming the bench LH for Munster.

Any of the above four could get international experience in the six nations or the tour to North America, especially if the 23 man squads for internationals remain passed the autumn.

Lock
Henderson (20)
Nagle (23)
Foley (24)

Henderson is a wonderful young talent and I really think that he can make pick fifteen ulster caps this year and push stevenson for the bench lock spot by the end of the season.

Nagle and Foley are in danager of becoming yesterdays men. At this stage in their career they really need to push on and lay down a claim to a spot higher in the pecking order. The retirement of MOD marks the end of the stalwarts of the Munster second row who will be coming to the end of their carreers shortly. One of these young men should push on this season.

Backrow
Dave O'Callaghan (22)
Dominic Ryan (22)

In many ways I think it is Dave O'Callaghan's season. While the munster backrow is crowded with ten different players with back row experience in the squad. That said I think Dave O'Callaghan is an excellent six that provides a huge amount and could well start for Munster through the HEC this season.

Despite having almost 40 Leinster caps Dominic Ryan has not managed to establish himself as a starter in Leinster. This season a combination of internationals and injuries will give Dominic Ryan a run in the starting team through the start of the season which could allow him to mantain a spot in the HEC 23 after the internationals return. Could well feature during the north american tour.

Scrumhalf
Marmion (20)
Blane McIlroy (21)

Marmion stands prepared to step up and get a serious amount of gametime in Connacht. One cannot say whether his own talents or the shortness of talent in other options will make the biggest impact in his selection but he does stand ready.

For better or worse McIlroy is looking at his biggest opportunity. The departure of Humphries may see more gametime for Pienaar at 10. This combined with the Pienaars international ambitions and Porters departure could see McIlroy get a good few games this season could allow for massive development.

Outhalf
Jackson (20)
Hanrahan (20)

Can you get bigger than a Heineken Cup Final? Yes you can. Jackson's aim has to be regular rugby rather than the mere seven starts that he settled for last season. Jackson will be Ulster's starting outhalf for next season and in my opinion the sky is the limit for him if he takes his opportunity. I think that he could be internationall capped in the next twelve months.

Hanrahan stands behind a an ageing ROG and an average at best Keatley. I hope that he will get an opportinity because if he does then he could establish himself in the first choice 23 by the end of the season.

Centers
Marshall (21)
Macken (21)
Griffin (22)

Luke Marshall's season last year was ruined by injury. If he can get an injury free season then I think that he can push Paddy Wallace for the starting 12 jersey in Ulster. With Whitten's departure and Wallace's injury Marshall with get a chance and I think that that is all that needs to take the 12 jersey.

Macken has always had the problem that he is behind a large amount of quality in the center in Leinster. That said he has a chance this season to have a run of games. As O'Driscoll, D'arcy, and McFadden rests and EOM & Fitzgerald recovers from injury Macken will start the season at 13. I honestly beleive that that Macken will be able to establish himself as the heir apparent of the great one by the time that others return.

While Griffin has received a lot of credit for his performances I think that this year he could given an injury free run put a claim on an international shirt during the Irish tour of north america.

Back Three
Conway (21)

The joint RWC record try scorer has so far had a career plagued by injury. With Leinster's injuries and international rest requirements Conway could well start the first few Leinster games next season. If he can remain fit I think he could retain a spot on the wing through the season for Leinster.


Predictions for new caps in 2012/2013
McAlister, Strauss, Ryan, Jackson, Griffin

ormond lad

James Rael/Niall Scannell at hooker. 1 or both should get a bit of gametime with Munster in pro 12 this season and get chance to lay down marker
Would also put Danny Barnes down in the centre

Fireball07

Add in:

Paddy Butler (back row)
Shane Layden (back three)

thomond2006

Don't write off Keatley just yet, he's still only 25 (Sexton's breakthrough came when he was 23/24) and his best form last season was when he had a run of games. I'm hoping for big things from him in the first block of Rabo games when ROG's availability will be restricted.

Kilcoyne should definitely be ahead of Horan at Munster, at least 5 Rabo starts would be good.

Barnes' chances of making appearances really depends on what Penney does with Earls. If Earls plays in the centre then Barnes won't get much gametime with Downey and Laulala as out and out centres. Plus the wing is crowded (Howlett, Zebo, Murphy, O'Dea, Hurley). I like him as a player but he wasn't heard of by the end of last season.

Hagz

Just to add to your list

Mick Kearney - He impressed me at 2nd row for the u20s and obviously is impressing the coaches down in Connacht as he got 11 appearances in the Rabo last season while he was still in the Academy. He seems to have established himself as a blindside flanker rather than a lock and he's been given a development contract at Connacht. Granted it would be a big ask for him to oust Muldoon, but he can definitely nail down the bench spot and if injury occurs he could play HC rugby.

Dave McSharry - He impressed on his debut last season and continued to do so earning his place in the HC XV. Unfortunately a nasty chin injury and an achilles injury at the tail end of the season halted his impressive form. Hopefully he'll recover from it and continue where he left off. With D'Arcy and Wallace both ageing, inside centre is there to be taken and I really feel he's the guy to do it.

Shane Layden - In keeping with the Connacht theme, Layden is finished his time with the u20s and no doubt the coaching staff will be hoping to utilise his potential. I'd expect him to get a few Rabo performances and breath down Duffy's neck.

Craig Gilroy - Some may say that the arrival of Bowe is to Gilroy's detriment but I don't see it that way. He will benefit greatly from having two international wingers to learn from and I think it will drive him to compete for his spot. Although I may be jumping the gun, I think he has a real chance to put pressure on Trimble this season.


As a Leinster fan though, Conway and Macken the two you've mentioned are the ones I am most exited about. Macken has a real opportunity with the internationals away and O'Malley injured, and I think he'll impress a lot of people. Conway just needs to stay injury free. Everybody knows what he's capable of but he seems to be made of glass. He faces literally no competition at the start of the season, same as Macken, and so he could really exhibit his talents.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Hagz wrote: »

Just to add to your list

Mick Kearney - He impressed me at 2nd row for the u20s and obviously is impressing the coaches down in Connacht as he got 11 appearances in the Rabo last season while he was still in the Academy. He seems to have established himself as a blindside flanker rather than a lock and he's been given a development contract at Connacht. Granted it would be a big ask for him to oust Muldoon, but he can definitely nail down the bench spot and if injury occurs he could play HC rugby.

Do you think Kearney is a long term blindside or will he transition into to the second row as he bulks up a bit more

d-gal

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Do you think Kearney is a long term blindside or will he transition into to the second row as he bulks up a bit more

He is a 2nd row, it's just very hard to get past McCarthy and swift who are obviously a lot more physical than him. It's going to be even harder this year with Andrew Browne back as well. A nice selection headache for Connacht!

Hagz

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Do you think Kearney is a long term blindside or will he transition into to the second row as he bulks up a bit more

I would hope the latter. He started at blindside 4 times this season, compared to his one start at lock. However, he's been benched as a lock more than a flanker, a lot more. He took the replacement lock position 19 times this season as opposed to benching at 20 twice. In saying that, Browne is back from injury, so I really don't know where he'll end up.

[Jackass]

No spots for Dave Kearney (23), Tom Denton (24) or Ian Madigan (23)?

I'd say Madigan would get a cap for Ireland way ahead of Jackson. In fact, if it wasn't for Kidneys relationship with O'Gara, I think he should already be subbing for Ireland.

I'd say Dave Kearney is pretty solid for a cap, already regular in the squads and made the bench for the 6 nations.

Denton is an outsider, but hopefully one to watch. Was pegged as a future England international before making the switch to Ireland and with the English foreign rule, presumably his international ambitions are green too.

Really looking forward to seeing Strauss play for Ireland. I can't see Ryan, Jackson or Griffin being capped any time soon. All that can be said of Jackson's Heineken Cup final performance is that it was bad judgement from McLoughlin to put him in the starting team. Granted Humphries is awful, but rarely will you see a player as out of his depth as Jackson was that day. Hopefully it will stand to him, but miles off the pace of someone like Madigan or even Keatley for that matter. He held JJ Hanrahan out of the junior side (when fit), but it's a massive step from that level to even PRO12 level.

Morf

I was far more impressed with Hanrahan than Jackson at underage representative level. He looked solid taking pressure kicks, Jackson did not.

bilston

Not sure about that at all. JJ seemed to miss as many kicks as Jackson did in the 6Ns.

To be honest I think Hanrahan is made for the centre and that's where he should be played for Munster. It's just my opinion and no doubt I will get some stick for it but I think the desperation of Munster fans to find a replacement 10 for ROG is clouding their judgement when it comes to JJ. He could be a world class centre given the chance.

ormond lad

bilston wrote: »

To be honest I think Hanrahan is made for the centre and that's where he should be played for Munster. It's just my opinion and no doubt I will get some stick for it but I think the desperation of Munster fans to find a replacement 10 for ROG is clouding their judgement when it comes to JJ. He could be a world class centre given the chance.

Totally agree.
JJ seems to be a very good centre and id love to see a Keatley JJ 10-12 partnership played in a game or two this season for munster in the pro 12. He would be great option as with Keatley JJ 10-12 axis both could slot into both positions
But many in Munster will shoehorn him into outhalf, because of ROG closetirement and fears that Keatley isnt up to it

jimbomalley

ormond lad wrote: »

Totally agree.
JJ seems to be a very good centre and id love to see a Keatley JJ 10-12 partnership played in a game or two this season for munster in the pro 12. He would be great option as with Keatley JJ 10-12 axis both could slot into both positions
But many in Munster will shoehorn him into outhalf, because of ROG closetirement and fears that Keatley isnt up to it

Kiwis do like to swap the 10 and 12 position so penny will probably experiment a bit here

mogwai81

I was hoping Mark Flanagan would kick on this year, but unlikely with Leinster's recent signing's.
Make or break year for Ian Nagle ( although currently injured ). Does anyone believe the likes of
Chris Farrell and Jack Conan could get decent game time this year ( 5/6 games ) or is it still too
early? Nice to see a big center coming through for Ireland, and Conan seems to be a bit of a recking
ball.

bilston

mogwai81 wrote: »

I was hoping Mark Flanagan would kick on this year, but unlikely with Leinster's recent signing's.
Make or break year for Ian Nagle ( although currently injured ). Does anyone believe the likes of
Chris Farrell and Jack Conan could get decent game time this year ( 5/6 games ) or is it still too
early? Nice to see a big center coming through for Ireland, and Conan seems to be a bit of a recking
ball.

I'm not sure about Conan but Leinster have a lot of depth in the back row. I was very impressed by him at the JWC.

Personally I'd love to see Farrell given a few games at 12 for Ulster but he has a lot of competition, Wallace and Cave are clearly our first choice, but after that there is a host of players vying for a spot and even Payne and Bowe can be considered midfield options.

ormond lad

mogwai81 wrote: »

I was hoping Mark Flanagan would kick on this year, but unlikely with Leinster's recent signing's.
Make or break year for Ian Nagle (although currently injured ). Does anyone believe the likes of Chris Farrell and Jack Conan could get decent game time this year ( 5/6 games ) or is it still too early? Nice to see a big center coming through for Ireland, and Conan seems to be a bit of a wrecking
ball.

Not really make or break for Foley(who many dont seem to rate at all) or Nagle. Both will get plenty of game time in pro 12 as DOC, POC and DR all will be rested and missing games due to irish call ups and there bit not being many more 2nd rows in the full munster squad apart from Billy Holland
Leinster have huge strength in depth in backrow so conan could struggle to get gametime but Farrell should see a nice bit of gametime

mogwai81

What are Paddy McAllister's chances of overtaking Tom Court this season? Is Iain Henderson more likely to get
game time at 6 while he is bulking up for lock?

mogwai81

ormond lad wrote: »

Not really make or break for Foley(who many dont seem to rate at all) or Nagle. Both will get plenty of game time in pro 12 as DOC, POC and DR all will be rested and missing games due to irish call ups and there bit not being many more 2nd rows in the full munster squad apart from Billy Holland
Leinster have huge strength in depth in backrow so conan could struggle to get gametime but Farrell should see a nice bit of gametime

Haven't see much of Nagle apart from " that game" against Australia. Good to see he has put on some weight since
then. He seem's to be a bit injury prone, hopefully he's not another Felix Jones.

bilston

mogwai81 wrote: »

What are Paddy McAllister's chances of overtaking Tom Court this season? Is Iain Henderson more likely to get
game time at 6 while he is bulking up for lock?

It's hard to know with a new coach. Anscombe as the former Baby Blacks coach may well give the young lads a decent crack of the whip just as McLaughlin did.

I'm led to believe that Henderson himself would prefer to play in the back row but I hope that's duff information as I'd love to see a real top class second row come through in Ireland.

Paddy Mac didn't really come on as much as was hoped last season, hopefully he kicks on again this coming year.

bamboozle

big season ahead from Jack McGrath, i'd expect him to get more Leinster gametime.
Kearney, Griffin, McSharry, Leyden & Marmion all have a big chance this coming season as they'll get plenty of game time and exposure.

I'll be looking on at Penny at Munster to see who he brings through. The likes of Condon & Kilcoyne have the ability to step up to rabo level. Sherry will finally get a run of games to prove his ability. in the backs Murray will benefit from the new mgt while i'd hope to see Hanrahan & Hircock get some game time, someone above suggested Barnes, i actually fear he'll be pushed out of the rabo squad with the likes of Downey, Lualala, Earls, Hanrahan, Keatley & Hircock ahead of him.

I'm looking forward to seeing Tadhg Furlong get some AIL exposure to see how good he is at that level.

Robin Copeland at Cardiff should have an exciting season ahead, he's got to this level the hard way and i'd expect to see him deliver on his talents.


Mcilwane at Bristol might grab some attention also.

Also hope the move to LI will give TOL a new lease of life.

Finally, Henderson should cement his place in the Ulster squad by Christmas, huge career ahead for him.

mogwai81

bamboozle wrote: »

big season ahead from Jack McGrath, i'd expect him to get more Leinster gametime.
Kearney, Griffin, McSharry, Leyden & Marmion all have a big chance this coming season as they'll get plenty of game time and exposure.

I'll be looking on at Penny at Munster to see who he brings through. The likes of Condon & Kilcoyne have the ability to step up to rabo level. Sherry will finally get a run of games to prove his ability. in the backs Murray will benefit from the new mgt while i'd hope to see Hanrahan & Hircock get some game time, someone above suggested Barnes, i actually fear he'll be pushed out of the rabo squad with the likes of Downey, Lualala, Earls, Hanrahan, Keatley & Hircock ahead of him.

I'm looking forward to seeing Tadhg Furlong get some AIL exposure to see how good he is at that level.

Robin Copeland at Cardiff should have an exciting season ahead, he's got to this level the hard way and i'd expect to see him deliver on his talents.


Mcilwane at Bristol might grab some attention also.

Also hope the move to LI will give TOL a new lease of life.

Finally, Henderson should cement his place in the Ulster squad by Christmas, huge career ahead for him.

Really think the return of Stringer will help Murray, hopefully Murray can return to the quick, snappy supply of his
early games. Griffin and Mcsharry look like a decent partnership if they can stay injury free. How good is Brian Hayes
at Munster?

tolosenc

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'm hoping for big things from him in the first block of Rabo games when ROG's availability will be restricted.

He should be ahead of ROG in the pecking order for both Munster and Ireland this season.

TheKeenMachine

tolosenc wrote: »

He should be ahead of ROG in the pecking order for both Munster and Ireland this season.

Not if Kidney is still in charge.

tolosenc

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Not if Kidney is still in charge.

Whether or not Kidney is in charge doesn't change who should be ahead of whom. It's never going to happen, though. Maybe Penney will spot it early on. Munster need to hand the 10 shirt over. ROG is deteriorating rapidly, and the longer they leave Keatley on the sidelines, the longer it is until they have a viable replacement.

Keatley is ready to be trusted imo.

molloyjh

This could be a real make or break season for Keatley. Like a few here I think he can make the step up if given a run of games. I actually thought he looked pretty decent against the Ospreys before being moved into FB. I'd be very hopeful that Penney will make the call in favour of him.

I'd love to see Hanrahan get some time at 12 too. The thought of seeing Madigan and Hanrahan at 10-12 in the Summer Tour is quite a nice one. I'd love to see what they could do together.

What do people make of Martin Moore at Leinster? The few times I've seen him play I've been at the games, so it's always harder to see the work the props are doing from the terrace. How has his scrummaging been?

ormond lad

mogwai81 wrote: »

Really think the return of Stringer will help Murray, hopefully Murray can return to the quick, snappy supply of his
early games. Griffin and Mcsharry look like a decent partnership if they can stay injury free. How good is Brian Hayes at Munster?

Hayes is all right but not sure how much game time he will get and IMO he could get passed out by Philly Donnellan by the end of the season

backawaygo onahead

Lots of names lots of potential but there is also the conundrum of who will be a Sexton & who will be a Keatley?

Promise more often than not goes unfulfilled sadly. I hope that most of those named can force their way into the reckoning for their provinces rather than simply be the least bad option before the usual suspects return to take their places.

In Ulster, I do worry that Paddy Jackson remains largely unproven & NOC is teh alternative other than wasting the talents of Pienaar at 10 for we are not coming down with impressive 9s.

PaddyMac has a long way to go to displace a fit Tom Court & extremely promising as he is, young Henderson will have is work cut out to get ahead of a very good Stevenson who got better & better the more he played last season, happily 2nd row is a strength & Henderson's chances may well come in the backrow where I understand that Fat Nic's future is again up in the air.

Much like Ireland I have fears for Ulster's season due to some injury concerns from the start of the season, Pienaar away for much of the early season, nothing concrete at 10 & very stretched in the backrow with both player management & injury.

Casander

[Jackass] wrote: »

I'd say Dave Kearney is pretty solid for a cap, already regular in the squads and made the bench for the 6 nations.

That's exactly how I'd describe Dave Kearney - 'solid'. That won't be good enough though, not for an international winger. No cap for him.

ormond lad

backawaygo onahead wrote: »

Lots of names lots of potential but there is also the conundrum of who will be a Sexton & who will be a Keatley?

Promise more often than not goes unfulfilled sadly. I hope that most of those named can force their way into the reckoning for their provinces rather than simply be the least bad option before the usual suspects return to take their places.

In Ulster, I do worry that Paddy Jackson remains largely unproven & NOC is teh alternative other than wasting the talents of Pienaar at 10 for we are not coming down with impressive 9s.

That is very harsh on Keatley imo and he has enough time on his hand tto show what he's really made of. PJ is unproven but has great potential and can only improve with playing games and the same can be said for many of the Ulster players.

TheKeenMachine

tolosenc wrote: »

Whether or not Kidney is in charge doesn't change who should be ahead of whom. It's never going to happen, though. Maybe Penney will spot it early on. Munster need to hand the 10 shirt over. ROG is deteriorating rapidly, and the longer they leave Keatley on the sidelines, the longer it is until they have a viable replacement.

Apologies, I misread your should as a future tense as opposed to conditional, if that makes any sense.