The Gay Megathread (see mod note on post #2212)

tommy2bad

Shrap wrote: »

See, I would say that there is an active campaign to make Ireland a place where God has it's place - in people's private lives and not in the constitution, affecting every Irish citizen regardless of faith. Certainly not to ridicule people of faith, but certainly to ridicule the notion that people of faith get to have power over people without faith in a deity.

The very definition of Orwellian (draconian control by propaganda, surveillance, misinformation, denial of truth, and manipulation of the past) appears very much to me what the No campaign is promulgating by their scaremongering sidetracking of the referendum question, but that's ok. We knew to expect it. We shall see what we shall see on Friday.

One small change to that and we are on the same side, in people's private and public lives, but not in the state of by the state. Removing God from public life is not what secularism is. It's removing God from the state.

Shrap

tommy2bad wrote: »

One small change to that and we are on the same side, in people's private and public lives, but not in the state of by the state. Removing God from public life is not what secularism is. It's removing God from the state.

Oh yeah, I'm cool with that. Why not speak of your god, why not write articles declaring people with no god to be going to hell on a handcart, etc.? I have zero problem with that, but I would like the state (including state funded schools) not to speak of any person's god.

Ghost Buster

Shrap wrote: »

Oh yeah, I'm cool with that. Why not speak of your god, why not write articles declaring people with no god to be going to hell on a handcart, etc.? I have zero problem with that, but I would like the state (including state funded schools) not to speak of any person's god.

Come again?

Shrap

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Come again?

Might have been a little tardy in my reply, sorry. What Tommy says here:

tommy2bad wrote: »

One small change to that and we are on the same side, in people's private and public lives, but not in the state of by the state. Removing God from public life is not what secularism is. It's removing God from the state.

Religious folk should be welcome to speak as they like about their beliefs, but the state can leave beliefs out of any state matters, to my mind including anything state funded.

I had originally replied to the poster who seemed to think there was an active campaign to take god out of society. I disagreed and said there may be an active campaign to take god out of the state, and leave god in people's private lives where it belongs. Tommy correctly reminded me that secularism means the bolded part above.

Any clearer? I'm listening to this http://t.co/UueZj2t1v9 (debate between Alex White TD and David Quinn) at the same time. Am a little distracted

Black Menorca

lazygal wrote: »

Ah take off the tinfoil hat. What's wrong with secularism anyway?

You did ask who I thought were behind this secular campaign. Did my answer annoy you so much you had to be offensive in your next response?

Black Menorca

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Hmmmmm. As a non Labour voter with not a clue what GLEN is and who doesn't read The Times Im forced to conclude that
1- Im not in on the conspiracy
Or
2- Catholics are becoming more and more convinced that their loss of privilege is a big paranoid conspiracy which isn't really there at all.

Have a read of this. http://www.irishcentral.com/news/politics/American-Chuck-Feeney-the-key-backer-for-gay-marriage-in-Ireland.html

PopePalpatine

And on the other side, you've got that neo-falangist billionaire Tom Monaghan: http://bocktherobber.com/2013/06/what-exactly-is-the-iona-institute/

aloyisious

Black Menorca wrote: »

The Labour Party, GLEN (and their endless funding from Chuck Feeney) radical Left, Irish Times among others.

What, The Irish Times, a leftie publication - or fellow traveller??? :eek:

Re-engineer Ireland - is that a new way of saying social experiment?

B_Wayne

Black Menorca wrote: »

Have a read of this. http://www.irishcentral.com/news/politics/American-Chuck-Feeney-the-key-backer-for-gay-marriage-in-Ireland.html

Chuck Feeney last donation to any gay rights group was in 2011. He has not donated to the marriage equality campaign, let alone bank rolled the entire thing and frankly he does some fantastic work for the country. However has not been involved in the conspiracy that you believe exists. All donations to Ireland from Feeney are listed here btw.
http://www.atlanticphilanthropies.org/search/grants?show_advanced=&keywords=&date_from=2001&regions%5B%5D=664&count=100

Black Menorca

B_Wayne wrote: »

Chuck Feeney last donation to any gay rights group was in 2011. He has not donated to the marriage equality and frankly he does some fantastic work for the country. However has not been involved in the conspiracy that you believe exists. All donations to Ireland from Feeney are listed here btw.
http://www.atlanticphilanthropies.org/search/grants?show_advanced=&keywords=&date_from=2001&regions%5B%5D=664&count=100

He's given 5 million to GLEN.

B_Wayne

Black Menorca wrote: »

He's given 5 million to GLEN.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that... The last donation was in 2011, lgbt groups aren't solely working on the referendum.

Black Menorca

B_Wayne wrote: »

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that... The last donation was in 2011, lgbt groups aren't solely working on the referendum.

To suggest Feeney isn't contributing to the Yes campaign is a little dissengenuous when one sees GLEN's gloating at their access to Government and the 5 mill he's contributed.

Bannasidhe

Black Menorca wrote: »

To suggest Feeney isn't contributing to the Yes campaign is a little dissengenuous when one sees GLEN's gloating at their access to Government and the 5 mill he's contributed.

Who funds Iona?

aloyisious

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Hmmmmm. As a non Labour voter with not a clue what GLEN is and who doesn't read The Times Im forced to conclude that
1- Im not in on the conspiracy
Or
2- Catholics are becoming more and more convinced that their loss of privilege is a big paranoid conspiracy which isn't really there at all.

G.L.E.N = Gay and Lesbian Equality Network.

Shrap

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Who funds Iona?

Quite.

Black Menorca wrote: »

To suggest Feeney isn't contributing to the Yes campaign is a little dissengenuous when one sees GLEN's gloating at their access to Government and the 5 mill he's contributed.

Here's disingenuous for ya. The very last thing IONA et al (MFM, etc.) are going to do is gloat at money as they would very much like to remain absolutely silent on where their funding comes from. Till just very recently, they refused to register with SIPO and claimed disingenuously NOT to be campaigning in this referendum! When their hand was finally forced by weight of public opinion, they registered, and I am looking forward to the synopsis of the donations and where they come from. As for their access to Government, don't get me started.

Considering that MFM claimed to only be spending 150,000 euro on the publicity for their campaign, and yet managed to poster every small village in the country and have long play ads on youtube, it's clear that far from transparency and truth they were r'ared.

At least you can see where GLEN's funding came from.

Black Menorca

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Who funds Iona?

I do for one.

Black Menorca

Shrap wrote: »

Quite.


Here's disingenuous for ya. The very last thing IONA et al (MFM, etc.) are going to do is gloat at money as they would very much like to remain absolutely silent on where their funding comes from. Till just very recently, they refused to register with SIPO and claimed disingenuously NOT to be campaigning in this referendum! When their hand was finally forced by weight of public opinion, they registered, and I am looking forward to the synopsis of the donations and where they come from. As for their access to Government, don't get me started.

Considering that MFM claimed to only be spending 150,000 euro on the publicity for their campaign, and yet managed to poster every small village in the country and have long play ads on youtube, it's clear that far from transparency and truth they were r'ared.

At least you can see where GLEN's funding came from.

Are you suggesting Iona are fiddling their books?

marienbad

Black Menorca wrote: »

Are you suggesting Iona are fiddling their books?

We have no way of knowing ,unlike other 'charities '

Not a NSA agent

Didnt GLEN last get funding 4 years ago and said they have been doing fundraising stuff to get money for the campaign? Better get on to barnardos too.

Black Menorca

marienbad wrote: »

We have no way of knowing ,unlike other 'charities '

So there is no suggestion of fiddling the books. Glad thats clarified.

Shrap

Black Menorca wrote: »

Are you suggesting Iona are fiddling their books?

I'm suggesting that the mere fact that IONA funding is so obscure, and MFM funding and all the God Squad psuedo charities that are linked to within an inch of their lives, often to the very same addresses, is indicative of them having very much to hide. Despite being asked for decades at this stage, where their funding comes from. Deny it with facts if you can. You'll meet the same stone wall as everyone else.

marienbad

Black Menorca wrote: »

So there is no suggestion of fiddling the books. Glad thats clarified.

How can we say when the books aren't available ?

Shrap

Black Menorca wrote: »

So there is no suggestion of fiddling the books. Glad thats clarified.

I don't mind suggesting that at all. Stands to reason, seeing as they have deliberately kept us all in the dark despite repeated queries from the Irish Revenue Commissioners.

Black Menorca

Shrap wrote: »

I don't mind suggesting that at all. Stands to reason, seeing as they have deliberately kept us all in the dark despite repeated queries from the Irish Revenue Commissioners.

Revenue?

Do you have access to this correspondance then..?

Bannasidhe

Black Menorca wrote: »

I do for one.

Enough to pay for all those posters?

Bannasidhe

Black Menorca wrote: »

Are you suggesting Iona are fiddling their books?

Iona have books do they - thought they would have only needed the one book.

Do they also have audited accounts?

Black Menorca

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Enough to pay for all those posters?

One or two maybe. Is that fair game to be poured scorn on?

Black Menorca

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Iona have books do they - thought they would have only needed the one book.

Do they also have audited accounts?

Whats with the snide, snarky references to Catholicism?

Bannasidhe

Black Menorca wrote: »

One or two maybe. Is that fair game to be poured scorn on?

Who poured scorn?

I think it is only fair that if one is going to go around casting aspersions on other people's funding that one is open and transparent about one's own.

So apart from yourself - who are the other contributors to Iona's coffers?
Why the secrecy if there is nothing to hide?

Bannasidhe

Black Menorca wrote: »

Whats with the snide, snarky references to Catholicism?

Who mentioned Catholicism?

I didn't.