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Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality/End of World?

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    #1322
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Yeah - if she keeps that up it will attract a certain poster with a thespian themed user name who will start going on about buggery again.

    :pac:

    ....the leading cause of the deficit in the Health budget, so its said.


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    #1323
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Yeah - if she keeps that up it will attract a certain poster with a thespian themed user name who will start going on about buggery again.

    :pac:

    Bad news :D.


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    #1324
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    28064212 wrote: »
    *sodomy. But fortunately, they got themselves perma-site-banned

    *uphill gardening. Did they? What ever could they have said to deserve that?


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    #1325
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    Bad news :D.

    Well - never saw that coming...

    :D


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    #1326
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,540 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    *uphill gardening. Did they? What ever could they have said to deserve that?
    *passage widening. When you're a troll, it's not a good idea to draw the admin's attention by complaining to the admins

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    #1327
    ButtimersLaw
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 64 ✭✭ButtimersLaw


    1ZRed wrote: »

    Sexuality is completely fluid and fluctuates a little or a lot depending on the person. I don't believe any sort of therapy could ever change me or influence my sexuality because that's just the way I'm built physically.

    I agree and we all have to decide for ourselves where we are on the spectrum.

    Just because you don’t believe any therapy could change you or influence you is great, and I guess it’s up to each of us to decide that for ourselves.

    For me, I don’t think I should prevent someone from doing anything they want to do, be that jumping off a cliff or seeking help from qualified practioners, or seeking help from quacks or running a marathon.


    Nodin wrote: »
    Do please be as good as to define what you mean by "help".

    I don’t define it on purpose as I think that’s for each of us to define for ourselves.

    What I am against is others telling me what help I am allowed to seek, and what help they will try to stop me seeking.


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    #1328
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Ahh, I remember that DR thread. Good times. :)


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    #1329
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    People can decide for themselves if they want whatever "help" they can find, but not underage and not against their will


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    #1330
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    28064212 wrote: »
    *passage widening. When you're a troll, it's not a good idea to draw the admin's attention by complaining to the admins

    *riding the chocolate whizz way. Good advice but I imagine wasted on those who like to believe that are not trolls but spokespeople for a higher power.


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    #1331
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    bluewolf wrote: »
    People can decide for themselves if they want whatever "help" they can find, but not underage and not against their will

    This.
    Absolutely!


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    #1332
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    ButtimersLaw wrote: »

    I don’t define it on purpose as I think that’s for each of us to define for ourselves. .

    While that kind of talk might well be ok for some 'now you have the drum' talk about energies and feelings, it doesn't really suit this particular discussion. In the real world, there are a number of different types of therapies available, and there are a number of attitudes that somebody who seeks those might have at the outset. In order to answer your hypothetical, its nessecary to know the specifics.
    ButtimersLaw wrote: »
    What I am against is others telling me what help I am allowed to seek, and what help they will try to stop me seeking.

    So you've no problem with somebody using a fruit only diet to combat a diagnosed case of liver cancer then?


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    #1333
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    bluewolf wrote: »
    People can decide for themselves if they want whatever "help" they can find, but not underage and not against their will

    I'm not so sure it's quite so black and white. I'm not sure I like the idea of people going for such 'help' having been guilt tripped, shamed into it etc.


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    #1334
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Galvasean wrote: »
    I'm not so sure it's quite so black and white. I'm not sure I like the idea of people going for such 'help' having been guilt tripped, shamed into it etc.

    I meant that as "not against their will" too. I imagine a quick psych assessment and asking their motivations for coming and what their family think would help rule it out
    Maybe I'm being too simplistic


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    #1335
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    bluewolf wrote: »
    I meant that as "not against their will" too. I imagine a quick psych assessment and asking their motivations for coming and what their family think would help rule it out
    Maybe I'm being too simplistic

    Maybe I'm being too cynical, but once such treatments become profitable all psych assessment goes out the window. You are supposed to get similar assessments when getting plastic surgery, but in practice it rarely happens to the degree that it should. A dramatic example would be Michael Jackson. The doctors in question should have had the moral integrity to refuse such excessive surgeries, but did not because it was so financially rewarding to them. I don't see why hypothetical 'sexuality switches' would end up being viewed any differently. In addition to that I'm certain doctors of certain religious persuasions would be inclined to ignore/skew such analysis as it is their world view that all people are better off not being gay.


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    #1336
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    koth wrote: »

    How can you claim there is politics afoot when evidence hasn't been provided to show the reparative therapies work? :confused:

    Because of the broad nature of the ban. Its not therapy specific. It uses 'causes harm', pushing all therapies under the banner reorientation into the harm category. Also, this is also based on anecdotal evidence (which again, does not mean its not true), while at the same time dismissing the anecdotal evidence of people who say they've changed. I would have ABSOLUTELY no suspicion or indeed any problem if this was about a specific therapy, like using electro shock treatment, or that negative consaquence therapy (The one where they administer pain everytime you feel a certain way etc) or some such. Though I must say, the more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm coming around to the view that maybe its not such a bad idea in terms of it relating to minors. Sure I'll keep an eye on the situation and see how the legal challenges develop etc. I'll let yee know if I find a conspiracy;)


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    #1337
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    Jimi, a poster already asked would you send a teenager to conversion therapy if you believed it worked(your son or daughter perhaps). I think many posters including myself are interested in if you would.


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    #1338
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Maybe I'm being too cynical, but once such treatments become profitable all psych assessment goes out the window. You are supposed to get similar assessments when getting plastic surgery, but in practice it rarely happens to the degree that it should. A dramatic example would be Michael Jackson. The doctors in question should have had the moral integrity to refuse such excessive surgeries, but did not because it was so financially rewarding to them. I don't see why hypothetical 'sexuality switches' would end up being viewed any differently. In addition to that I'm certain doctors of certain religious persuasions would be inclined to ignore/skew such analysis as it is their world view that all people are better off not being gay.

    I happen to agree with this, but doesn't that mean the whole profession is in disrepute and not reliable? So when we hear about lets say, transgender scenarios, or the scenarios of 'danger to the mothers life' include suicide in terms of the abortion debate. Should we not be equally dubious?

    I think people put way too much stock in such professions.


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    #1339
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    Jimi, a poster already asked would you send a teenager to conversion therapy if you believed it worked(your son or daughter perhaps). I think many posters including myself are interested in if you would.

    No I wouldn't. I don't have faith in the profession. Though if my son or daughter wanted it, and I researched and found something that I knew wasn't charlatans at work or somesuch, and had a proven track record, then I wouldn't stand in my Son/daughters way.


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    #1340
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    US-based homophobic outfit issues an homophobic ad containing a wedding-day photo used without the consent of the two gay guys pictured.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19804286

    Lawsuits ensue.

    .


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    #1341
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    JimiTime wrote: »
    I happen to agree with this, but doesn't that mean the whole profession is in disrepute and not reliable?

    I never said it was?


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    #1342
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    Galvasean wrote: »
    I never said it was?

    I'm not saying you did, just expanding on the issue you alluded to


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    #1343
    Sir Pompous Righteousness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Sir Pompous Righteousness


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Well - never saw that coming...

    :D

    Well he's been utterly site-banned now by one of the mods. Boards.ie can breathe a sigh of relief.


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    #1344
    Sir Pompous Righteousness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Sir Pompous Righteousness


    robindch wrote: »
    US-based homophobic outfit issues an homophobic ad containing a wedding-day photo used without the consent of the two gay guys pictured.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19804286

    Lawsuits ensue.

    .

    It's not just the homophobia behind it, it's the fact that they took their photos without their prior consent. It's almost as though that conservative group thinks it's above the law.


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    #1345
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Sir Pompous Righteousness wrote: »
    It's not just the homophobia behind it, it's the fact that they took their photos without their prior consent. It's almost as though that conservative group thinks it's above the law.

    Or a very easy and effective way to get nation wide support , can't help but believe that this was knowingly done.


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    #1346
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    JimiTime wrote: »
    I happen to agree with this, but doesn't that mean the whole profession is in disrepute and not reliable? So when we hear about lets say, transgender scenarios, or the scenarios of 'danger to the mothers life' include suicide in terms of the abortion debate. Should we not be equally dubious?

    Do you have any idea how difficult it is to access hormone treatment, let alone the difficulty in getting access to genital reassignment surgery if the person requires that? People are already extremely "dubious" about the medical needs of transgender people as it is.


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    #1347
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 8,889 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    Anyone remember Louis Theroux's "Christians". I found this bit at the end of the episode (1.36 into the vid) quite shocking to be honest. If that is how people are "cured" of their homosexuality it's scary.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U0c_bW_8uI


    Louis is great though. I love the bit where he suggests George Michael's "Faith" as a possible song for a christian family's street singing.


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    #1348
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    ButtimersLaw wrote: »
    My question was someone seeking help and not about "engineering". While the words we use are important, do you consider it engineering if someone seeks help because they are having homosexual thoughts or urges which they do not welcome.

    If that person is 90% str8 and 10% gay, is it permitted for them, in your opinion, to seek help and advice?

    If they are 50% str8 and 50% gay, is it permitted for them, in your opinion, to seek help and advice?

    If they are 90% gay and 10% str8, is it permitted for them, in your opinion, to seek help and advice?

    The question I would ask is why they do not welcome it?

    I think people should be allowed help to accept who they are.


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    #1349
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,386 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    efb wrote: »
    I think people should be allowed help to accept who they are.

    Except for users of text speak, of course. "Str8" :rolleyes: :mad:

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #1350
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Well - never saw that coming...

    :D


    How did I miss that? See, I do worry about banning them. At least in here, people like that thesp are contained and cannot hurt anyone. How will he work out his frustrations now? And no joking, the man is seriously frustrated.

    IMHO, of course.


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    #1351
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,386 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I'd disagree with the 'cannot hurt anyone' when the aim of certain people is to disrupt online discourse with which they do not agree.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



This discussion has been closed.
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