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Gender issues in After Hours - Your feedback requested.

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    #662
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    I think don't be an ass is best


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    #663
    Kooli
    Registered Users Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Kooli


    Yeah I like don't be an ass.

    Don't be a cnut is too strong a word, so people might be reluctant to call someone that if the situation doesn't warrant it.
    Don't cause trouble is too reliant on the outcome (if a thread is full of sexist asses making sexist jokes, is that OK because there is no evidence of trouble?)

    Dicktit could catch on though...


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    #664
    Tombi!
    Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    Kooli wrote: »
    Yeah I like don't be an ass.

    Don't be a cnut is too strong a word, so people might be reluctant to call someone that if the situation doesn't warrant it.
    Don't cause trouble is too reliant on the outcome (if a thread is full of sexist asses making sexist jokes, is that OK because there is no evidence of trouble?)

    Dicktit could catch on though...

    I thought the issue was "that's abusive, I'm not a dick/dicktit and you're unfair, etc".

    At least with "don't cause trouble" it's a catch all term that you can basically say "well your post annoyed people, stop causing trouble by posting things like that".

    Even if you have to infract 19/20 posts because 19 of the 20 posts had some form of annoyance in the posts, still gets covered by it.


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    #665
    Daveysil15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭Daveysil15


    donfers wrote: »
    "don't be a dick to women" eh, surely we can all agree on that, let's shorten it "don't be a dick" - i mean are we being sexist if we single them out or sexist if we don't, i don't know what door to walk through to get my cool hat anymore

    I agree. The sweeper made a big list of things not to say to women, as if all the female posters are victims of abuse. Is there no such thing as a female sexist? It's no different to black people exchanging racist remarks with white people, and then someone jumps in and just blames the white people. "Ohh leave the poor black man alone." There's a double standard with sexism. Single out the poster, not the gender. By putting the blame on one gender you're only making things worse.


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    #666
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Daveysil15 wrote: »
    The sweeper made a big list of things not to say to women, as if all the female posters are victims of abuse.
    She didn't say that, you know, nor that sexism can never go the other way.

    She simply gave some examples of the kind of things many women find offensive, and that some men don't seem to realise are offensive.


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    #667
    Daveysil15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭Daveysil15


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    She didn't say that, you know, nor that sexism can never go the other way.

    She simply gave some examples of the kind of things many women find offensive, and that some men don't seem to realise are offensive.

    Well why not give some examples of what men find offensive then? Both sexes contribute to the problem so why only set rules for one gender?


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    #668
    BlueSmoker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭BlueSmoker


    I thought maybe "Don't be a twat", "don't be silly", "Don't be an ase"

    Why should we swear, and use bad language, when someone else is being a complete an utter ase whipping twat from silly ville. Plus it's gender neutral. :)


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    #669
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    The new ah mod giving warnings to posts like this :

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80417465&postcount=5


    & deleting* anyone who questions her is Not a good development in my view.

    * also banning !


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    #670
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,060 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    BlueSmoker wrote: »
    I thought maybe "Don't be a twat", "don't be silly", "Don't be an ase"

    Why should we swear, and use bad language, when someone else is being a complete an utter ase whipping twat from silly ville. Plus it's gender neutral. :)

    ehh... twat isn't exactly a gender neutral term!


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    #671
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Morlar wrote: »
    The new ah mod giving warnings to posts like this :

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80417465&postcount=5


    & deleting anyone who questions her is Not a good development in my view.

    You were infracted for questioning this on thread. You know a PM is better than posting on thread questioning mod decision.

    Then after your warning, you posted again and were banned.

    The warning was fair. Your warning was fair. The posts you made were deleted because you were ruining the thread with your questioning of mod decision.


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    #672
    SantryRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,224 ✭✭✭✭SantryRed


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056736101

    Ridiculous infraction.


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    #673
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    SantryRed wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056736101

    Ridiculous infraction.

    I think thats fair enough.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #674
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    SantryRed wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056736101

    Ridiculous infraction.
    Any possibility of you expanding on that to the point of it becoming a constructive contribution to this discussion?


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    #675
    El Guapo!
    Registered Users Posts: 12,427 ✭✭✭✭El Guapo!


    SantryRed wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056736101

    Ridiculous infraction.

    That's the exact same post highlighted a few posts up.
    And it seems to be exactly the type of post that this thread is about in my opinion.


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    #676
    Tombi!
    Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    SantryRed wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056736101

    Ridiculous infraction.

    Stereotype of women being in the kitchen. It's not allowed.


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    #677
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    SantryRed wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056736101

    Ridiculous infraction.

    I know. How sad it is that you can't slag a woman, in this day and age, for not having your dinner on the table when you get home. :rolleyes:


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    #678
    BlueSmoker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭BlueSmoker


    Brutal Deluxe wrote: »
    Stereotype of women being in the kitchen. It's not allowed.

    that's not true, sterotypes of males considering themselves good in the kitchen, that is what is untrue.:D


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    #679
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Any possibility of you expanding on that to the point of it becoming a constructive contribution to this discussion?
    I guess not.


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    #680
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Daveysil15 wrote: »
    Well why not give some examples of what men find offensive then?
    Because she's not a man? ... and couldn't claim to have any particular personal insight into what men find offensive in terms of sexism?

    As a matter of interest, what DO (other ... yes, I am male) men find offensive in terms of sexism against men?


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    #681
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    Because she's not a man? ... and couldn't claim to have any particular personal insight into what men find offensive in terms of sexism?

    As a matter of interest, what DO (other ... yes, I am male) men find offensive in terms of sexism against men?

    Personally I find "grow a pair of balls" offensive but I think that I'm probably in a minority in finding offense at that statement.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #682
    BlueSmoker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭BlueSmoker


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Personally I find "grow a pair of balls" offensive but I think that I'm probably in a minority in finding offense at that statement.

    Not at all, I find it very offensive, but I would think losing my balls, would be part of the process of courage. I would think anyone who has the courage to be honest to themselves, yep their a hero :D

    Mind you they shouldn't belittle the rest of us, we still need to find ourselves:)


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    #683
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Personally I find "grow a pair of balls" offensive but I think that I'm probably in a minority in finding offense at that statement.

    I hate that statement- as David Mitchell says in retort- "why?, two pairs would look weird"


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    #684
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    SantryRed wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056736101

    Ridiculous infraction.

    why is it ridiculous?


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    #685
    Daveysil15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭Daveysil15


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    Because she's not a man? ... and couldn't claim to have any particular personal insight into what men find offensive in terms of sexism?

    As a matter of interest, what DO (other ... yes, I am male) men find offensive in terms of sexism against men?

    Grow a pair of balls.

    Men are dogs.

    Men are creeps

    All aboard the bitter bus.

    Stop whinging, you can’t get your hole, you’re only bitter, any wonder you’re single, (basically anything to do with men having difficulty in the dating game.)

    The accusations of misogyny anytime someone says something even remotely sexist about women, (even as a joke).

    A lot of these are subtle and usually go under the radar, but its still sexist. Although these women are in the minority, but so too I’d imagine are the male sexists - its just they get more attention.

    Remember Andy Gray the football pundit? He got the sac for making a sexist comment about a female third official for not understanding the offside rule.

    Then you have a female chat show where women were laughing about a man who had his penis chopped of by his wife. Sharon Ozbourne actually said it was fabulous. Men would never get away with saying something like that about women.

    Sexism seems to be more acceptable when practised by women and is actually applauded in some cases.


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    #686
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    As a matter of interest, what DO (other ... yes, I am male) men find offensive in terms of sexism against men?
    Honestly R? Nothing. I genuinely can't think of any of that sort of stuff(grow a pair/men are creeps/etc) I've read in AH that was offensive to me personally. That stuff just bypasses me TBH. If I notice it at all.

    I do recall a coupe of times when I modded PI when some bloke or other was clearly hurting over a breakup or whatever and some(mostly men) piled in with the "grow a pair" guff and I burnt it with fire, but that's a different kettle of finned critters IMH. Actually back in the day there were a few examples of a gender double standard agin men regarding certain subjects* in PI, but again that was spotted, teased out and moderated.




    *to clarify, stuff like phone/email snooping on partners. Men would often get berated for it whereas women would be tacitly approved of. Men who started to feel their partner was less attractive to them would get more low level attacks than vice versa. Pretty low level stuff TBH.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #687
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Daveysil15 wrote: »

    The accusations of misogyny anytime someone says something even remotely sexist about women, (even as a joke).

    A lot of these are subtle and usually go under the radar, but its still sexist. Although these women are in the minority, but so too I’d imagine are the male sexists - its just they get more attention.

    Remember Andy Gray the football pundit? He got the sac for making a sexist comment about a female third official for not understanding the offside rule.

    Then you have a female chat show where women were laughing about a man who had his penis chopped of by his wife. Sharon Ozbourne actually said it was fabulous. Men would never get away with saying something like that about women.

    Sexism seems to be more acceptable when practised by women and is actually applauded in some cases.

    I don't agree with that at all. I don't think that highlighting when men are sexist towards women is misandry.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #688
    Kooli
    Registered Users Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Kooli


    mango salsa wrote: »
    I don't agree with that at all. I don't think that highlighting when men are sexist towards women is misandry.

    Absolutely. That's like when people say that calling someone out as a racist is 'just as bigoted'


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    #689
    Daveysil15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭Daveysil15


    mango salsa wrote: »
    I don't think that highlighting when men are sexist towards women is misandry.

    It's not the highlighting that is misandry, its the misandy that is misandry. It goes far beyond simply highlighting it.


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    #690
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


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    #691
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Daveysil15 wrote: »
    Grow a pair of balls.

    Men are dogs.

    Men are creeps

    All aboard the bitter bus.

    Stop whinging, you can’t get your hole, you’re only bitter, any wonder you’re single, (basically anything to do with men having difficulty in the dating game.)
    I would have no problem with seeing all of the above stamped out of AH, along with all the equivalent abuse towards women.

    Because, let's face it, people saying things like that are being a dick towards men. I've made it clear that I think we have a bigger problem with people being a dick towards women, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see all forms of douchebaggery permanently eliminated.
    The accusations of misogyny anytime someone says something even remotely sexist about women, (even as a joke).
    Not the same thing. If people don't want to be accused of misogyny, they shouldn't say sexist things about women. If people don't want to be accused of misandry, they shouldn't say sexist things about men.
    Remember Andy Gray the football pundit? He got the sac for making a sexist comment about a female third official for not understanding the offside rule.
    Do you think he shouldn't have been chastised for that?
    Then you have a female chat show where women were laughing about a man who had his penis chopped of by his wife. Sharon Ozbourne actually said it was fabulous.
    Do you think she should have been chastised for that?
    Aquila wrote: »
    Is all this necessary though?
    reason I ask would most of the previous guidelines be covered in the existing charter?
    Clearly many of us feel something needs to change. It's not necessarily the charter that needs to change, so much as the prevailing attitude in the forum, and that requires a shift in focus on the part of the moderators - which is happening, and for which they should be congratulated (despite some people clearly being disturbed (but refusing to explain why) that the change is happening).


This discussion has been closed.
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