Bloody Sunday Murder investigation to begin!

fasttalkerchat

The police are to launch a murder investigation into the deaths of 13 people shot dead by soldiers in Londonderry on Bloody Sunday in 1972.

The move comes after the PSNI and Public Prosecution Service reviewed the findings of the Saville inquiry, which said none of those killed was armed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18721686

But given previous examples of British Justice I wouldn't expect much:

During the Troubles four British soldiers were convicted of murder in Northern Ireland.

In 1984, Private Ian Thain was convicted of murdering 22-year-old Thomas Reilly in west Belfast. He served just over two years in prison.

In 1993, Private Lee Clegg was convicted of the murders of teenagers Martin Peake and Karen Reilly - who had been in a stolen car in west Belfast. He was released two years later and in 1999 he was cleared of the charges following a retrial.

Scots Guards Mark Wright and James Fisher were convicted in 1995 of murdering north Belfast man Peter McBride in September 1992. They each served six years of their life sentences.

All four soldiers were subsequently re-admitted into the Army.

getzls

British justice is/was a lot better than the I.R.A. justice. Yes i think some were murdered then. Do we jail these solders now and let Martin the DFM stay free? No i say.

Jester252

Nothing will come from it

fasttalkerchat

getzls wrote: »

British justice is/was a lot better than the I.R.A. justice. Yes i think some were murdered then. Do we jail these solders now and let Martin the DFM stay free? No i say.

I think they should go to court and be sentenced for murder. Even if they're out in a few years there would be some justice.

1ZRed

yay?

Ghandee

Meh.

The shinner haters will still find reason to bad mouth the shinners, even in a thread about the brits murdering innocent civilians in Derry?

RHarrow

Don't really care what happened 30 years ago in another country to be honest.

steddyeddy

Ghandee wrote: »

Meh.

The shinner haters will still find reason to bad mouth the shinners in a thread about the brits murdering innocent civilians in Derry?

Well its nothing to do with sinn fein so they shouldnt even bring them up! To me this was the death of the civil rights movement and the rise in support for the ira. In the words of Ivan cooper one of the organizers of the civil rights marchs:

You know what you've just done, don't you? You've destroyed the civil rights movement, and you've given the IRA the biggest victory it will ever have. All over this city tonight, young men... boys will be joining the IRA. and you will reap a whirlwind

Richard Hillman

Why do the Loyalist/Republican fighters walk free but the British soldiers don't. Is the war not supposed to be over?

chalkitdown

You are at a 180 degree shift to the truth. EVERY British soldier HAS walked free. Take off your blinkers.

carbon nanotube

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

But given previous examples of British Justice I wouldn't expect much:

what a waste of money..

like that higging bottom thinamajig shoite.

no wonder the eurozone is in the $hits

RHarrow

carbon nanotube wrote: »

what a waste of money..

like that higging bottom thinamajig shoite.

no wonder the eurozone is in the $hits

I'd say you're not consulted for your opinion or 'knowledge' very often.

chalkitdown

carbon nanotube wrote: »

what a waste of money..

like that higging bottom thinamajig shoite.

no wonder the eurozone is in the $hits

If you choose not to invest in the process don't be surprised with the outcome.

allthedoyles

If the British Government are paying the salaries and expenses of the Saville team then its okay with me.

If it costs the Irish taxpayer , then I dont think its worth pursuing .

I thought the witnesses were protected / anonymous .

Its unlikely any individuals will be charged with murder .

Cookie_Monster

God it's gonna be like Stardust, on and on and on and on, just leave it alone already. nothing that comes from this will change anything

fasttalkerchat

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Why do the Loyalist/Republican fighters walk free but the British soldiers don't. Is the war not supposed to be over?

Eh? Thousands of men and women did time during the troubles, some for over 20 years many were innocent kids tortured into signing confessions.

A total of 4 brits went to prison serving 2-6 years. The war is over but this was a clear case of planned murder of civilians.

Mint Sauce

Will this just turn into another inquery, or do they actully plan to make arrests and take former soliders to court.

In someway it may bring some kind of closure to berived families, on the other hand it may just open up old wounds of incidents that some communities of this Island would rather forget and move on from.

fasttalkerchat

irish-stew wrote: »

Will this just turn into another inquery, or do they actully plan to make arrests and take former soliders to court.

In someway it may bring some kind of closure to berived families, on the other hand it may just open up old wounds of incidents that some communities of this Island would rather forget and move on from.

It will be a murder investigation. They will have to prosecute individuals to some extent but it could take 4 years before they will be sentenced.

wmpdd3

Why are these killings not covered by the Good Friday Agreement?

Surprised they are going for murder and not manslaughter.

steddyeddy

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Why are these killings not covered by the Good Friday Agreement?

Surprised they are going for murder and not manslaughter.

Well they were told there was killings wanted in advance so that means some pre planning was needed.

getzls

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I think they should go to court and be sentenced for murder. Even if they're out in a few years there would be some justice.

Hope you are never on a Jury. Go to court and be sentenced for murder. Any chance of a trial first?:cool:

Biggins

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Bloody Sunday Murder investigation to begin!

Call me sceptical but this is ONLY NOW happening when because of the Justice and Security Bill - those that might be to blame, might get away scot free now!

The government says the Justice and Security Bill is necessary to protect sensitive information where people have brought cases against the intelligence and security agencies, including MI5.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18511393

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/may/29/secret-courts-justice-security-bill

Under the bill, the prime minister retains the power of veto over the choice of committee members, and ministers will be able to block the release of information deemed "sensitive" to the ISC.

ISC = the intelligence and security committee.

Jimoslimos

RHarrow wrote: »

Don't really care what happened 30 years ago in another country to be honest.

Really? We live on the same island and you'd be hard pushed to find anyone down here that doesn't have some friends or relatives in Northern Ireland. That enough of a reason to care?

Nodin

carbon nanotube wrote: »

what a waste of money..

like that higging bottom thinamajig shoite.

no wonder the eurozone is in the $hits

Britain isn't in the Euro.

RHarrow

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Really? We live on the same island and you'd be hard pushed to find anyone down here that doesn't have some friends or relatives in Northern Ireland. That enough of a reason to care?

Yes, really. We share the same land mass yes but it's a separate country and is part of the UK. I care no more about it than I do something that happened in Wales, Scotland or England 30 years ago and is still being talked about today to be frank.

Nodin

RHarrow wrote: »

Yes, really. We share the same land mass yes but it's a separate country and is part of the UK. I care no more about it than I do something that happened in Wales, Scotland or England 30 years ago and is still being talked about today to be frank.

Well its good to see human empathy alive and well.

mattjack

RHarrow wrote: »

Don't really care what happened 30 years ago in another country to be honest.

RHarrow wrote: »

Yes, really. We share the same land mass yes but it's a separate country and is part of the UK. I care no more about it than I do something that happened in Wales, Scotland or England 30 years ago and is still being talked about today to be frank.

Your level of knowledge does you no favours, it happened 40 years ago.

RHarrow

mattjack wrote: »

Your level of knowledge does you no favours, it happened 40 years ago.

Yes, indeed, it appears I'm living 10 years in the past but sure at least it was consistent...!

With regards to empathizing with those in the North, no, I absolutely cannot empathize with them there as it's something I'll never experience myself. I can offer them sympathy for the trouble that took place there and the lives that were lost, but it'd be pretentious to stand here and claim I can relate to their feelings.

Shít happened, people died but the North is basically at peace now. Move on, put the past behind and stop digging up shít that people will get emotionally involved in again.

mattjack

RHarrow wrote: »

Yes, indeed, it appears I'm living 10 years in the past but sure at least it was consistent...!

With regards to empathizing with those in the North, no, I absolutely cannot empathize with them there as it's something I'll never experience myself. I can offer them sympathy for the trouble that took place there and the lives that were lost, but it'd be pretentious to stand here and claim I can relate to their feelings.

Shít happened, people died but the North is basically at peace now. Move on, put the past behind and stop digging up shít that people will get emotionally involved in again.

Fair enough, but why bother your arse posting in a thread that you've got absolutely no interest in at all and very little knowledge on ?

Biggins

mattjack wrote: »

Fair enough, but why bother your arse posting in a thread that you've got absolutely no interest in at all and very little knowledge on ?

Its not his first time.

John Doe1

RHarrow wrote: »

Don't really care what happened 30 years ago in another country to be honest.

Yeah man apathy is so cool:rolleyes:

Chuck Stone

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Why do the Loyalist/Republican fighters walk free but the British soldiers don't. Is the war not supposed to be over?

Maybe they do in that little back-to-front fantasy world you've created for yourself.

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Why are these killings not covered by the Good Friday Agreement?

Surprised they are going for murder and not manslaughter.

They could still be convicted for murder and not serve any time.

RHarrow wrote: »

I care no more about it than I do something that happened in Wales, Scotland or England 30 years ago and is still being talked about today to be frank.

Why in the name of **** are you posting in this thread if you don't care? Is it because you care about getting attention? You want to do a little trolling on the backs of the murders of these people?

These are rhetorical questions - no need to answer.

RHarrow

Biggins wrote: »

Its not his first time.

Oh, the irony of this coming from 'united people' is just delicious.

Still no joy on the job front?

RHarrow

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Why in the name of **** are you posting in this thread if you don't care? Is it because you care about getting attention? You want to do a little trolling on the backs of the murders of these people?

These are rhetorical questions - no need to answer.

Popped up on an Irish internet discussion board, didn't it? For discussion, yeah? Not just circlejerking into a frenzy over a single and most likely pro-Sinn Fein opinion, yeah?

mattjack

Chuck Stone wrote: »

.

They could still be convicted for murder and not serve any time.



Bearing in mind the ages of these soldiers, the very youngest now would in his late fifties.

Oh good, more money for the legal professionals in NI. I guess the cutbacks were hitting the wrong people.

markesmith

Haven't there been several inquiries into this already? We all know the verdict won't finger anyone. Surprised it's being dealt with, with a Tory government in power and all.

AH response: Sinn Fein murderers sure it's a foreign country let's hang McGuinness narrow minded bigots I love Orangemen and we should welcome our new British overlords Atheism > Protestantism > Catholicism.

Politics forum's your best bet for measured debate

steddyeddy

markesmith wrote: »

Haven't there been several inquiries into this already? We all know the verdict won't finger anyone. Surprised it's being dealt with, with a Tory government in power and all.

AH response: Sinn Fein murderers sure it's a foreign country let's hang McGuinness narrow minded bigots I love Orangemen and we should welcome our new British overlords Atheism > Protestantism > Catholicism.

Politics forum's your best bet for measured debate

To be honest I dont want anyone fingered. Theyd probrably enjoy that too much!

Chuck Stone

mattjack wrote: »

Bearing in mind the ages of these soldiers, the very youngest now would in his late fifties.

None of them will serve a day - that's pretty much guaranteed regardless of the outcome.

I'm guessing they could still, theoretically, be convicted sentenced and immediately released under the terms of the GFA?

John Doe1

As an protestant from donegal, I hope those poor families get some justice, its an absolute disgrace what happened. So many lives could have been saved over the decades if those idiots hadnt opened fire.

steddyeddy

Chuck Stone wrote: »

None of them will serve a day - that's pretty much guaranteed regardless of the outcome.

I'm guessing they could still, theoretically, be convicted sentenced and immediately released under the terms of the GFA?

They werent even disciplined though which is the worst aspect of this. They should be denied their pension.

Chuck Stone

steddyeddy wrote: »

They werent even disciplined though which is the worst aspect of this. They should be denied their pension.

Yes, it must be extremely painful for the people of Derry who lost loved ones on the day.

The British pretty much close ranks when it comes to a soldier being charged with murder - even if they are convicted they serve a token amount of time in prison and then they're often allowed to resume duties.

Most armies do that though - it's not unique to the British.

steddyeddy

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Yes, it must be extremely painful for the people of Derry who lost loved ones on the day.

The British pretty much close ranks when it comes to a soldier being charged with murder - even if they are convicted they serve a token amount of time in prison and then they're often allowed to resume duties.

Most armies do that though - it's not unique to the British.

Well I cant imagine the pain the people of Derry feel but I think a lot more people are effected by this. Bloody Sunday was the cause of a massive rise in the number of people in the ira which caused a lot more deaths. Itw as also the end of the civil rights movement.

mattjack

Chuck Stone wrote: »

None of them will serve a day - that's pretty much guaranteed regardless of the outcome.

I'm guessing they could still, theoretically, be convicted sentenced and immediately released under the terms of the GFA?

That's possibly what will happen, though I seem to remember years ago Canada disbanding a battalion or company ? (I'm not sure on the terminology) of soldiers who had brought Canada into disrepute in Somolia , I think.

If an example were made of the Para's on conviction of their soldiers, similar to what the Canadians had done, it might possibly look a lot better ,bearing in mind its unlikely that any soldier will serve a sentence.

steddyeddy

In fairness soldiers in war are rarely convicted. This was a war imo but will the british government think so?

Chuck Stone

steddyeddy wrote: »

Itw as also the end of the civil rights movement.

I think it's widely accepted as the tipping point - goodness knows what would have happened if the civil rights movement had been nurtured instead of violently suppressed.

mattjack wrote: »

If an example were made of the Para's on conviction of their soldiers, similar to what the Canadians had done, it might possibly look a lot better ,bearing in mind its unlikely that any soldier will serve a sentence.

I can't see them tarnishing 'brand British Army' because of it personally - but I guess you never know.

Chuck Stone

steddyeddy wrote: »

In fairness soldiers in war are rarely convicted.

Yep. And with the British involved in Afghanistan any suggestion that you might face consequences for shooting a few civilians would probably be considered 'bad for morale' by higher-ups.

This was a war imo but will the british government think so?

I guess with the GFA they pretty much conceded that it was, at the very least, a conflict of a political nature.

bwatson

mattjack wrote: »

That's possibly what will happen, though I seem to remember years ago Canada disbanding a battalion or company ? (I'm not sure on the terminology) of soldiers who had brought Canada into disrepute in Somolia , I think.

If an example were made of the Para's on conviction of their soldiers, similar to what the Canadians had done, it might possibly look a lot better ,bearing in mind its unlikely that any soldier will serve a sentence.

There is absolutely no chance in hell that the British government would decide to disband the Parachute Regiment!

steddyeddy

bwatson wrote: »

There is absolutely no chance in hell that the British government would decide to disband the Parachute Regiment!

No nor should they but they should punish those guilty of unlawful killing.

carbon nanotube

RHarrow wrote: »

I'd say you're not consulted for your opinion or 'knowledge' very often.

this happened eons ago, get the fhuck over with it.

as if any out this crap with remotely effect out daily lives.

like the mahon tribunal..

lasted about 1,000,000 years and cost the state a couple of hundred million.

and now no one knows what the f**k it was about.

bwatson

steddyeddy wrote: »

No nor should they but they should punish those guilty of unlawful killing.

Oh, there is no doubt they will. They will push the trial and ensure that those who they think are guilty go to prison for a substantial amount of time. The current British government despise the British military, and in particular the British Army and are doing everything they can to destroy it from the inside. David Cameron will push this more than any other PM would have done to ensure that the Army recieve further bad press so as to convince the civillian population that the dismantling that he is overseeing is a good thing for all.

They are going to do the right thing but for the wrong reasons.