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Frequency Changes at Three Rock

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124

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    #92
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Karsini wrote: »
    Do you know if the TS still shows 738000 (and 198500)? Or is that old news?

    What do you mean ?


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    #93
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    There is (or was) data in the TS that mentioned some frequencies. It said 738000 regardless of what TX you were on. It also had 198500 in the list which is not active anywhere as it's a VHF channel.


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    #94
    mollser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭mollser


    Much stronger signal on Ch 30 in leopardstown just using a cheap indoor aerial,rock solid100%,thanksguys!

    Communication was abysmal tho,surely a message could have flashed up periodically on the channels from3rock over the last couple of weeks? Only discovered this as I sat down to watch revenge and nothing there.. .


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    #95
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mollser wrote: »
    Much stronger signal on Ch 30 in leopardstown just using a cheap indoor aerial,rock solid100%,thanksguys!

    Communication was abysmal tho,surely a message could have flashed up periodically on the channels from3rock over the last couple of weeks? Only discovered this as I sat down to watch revenge and nothing there.. .

    I think the problem with this is that each TX is carrying the same stream. To put messages on the Three Rock stream they'd have to demux, decode, re-encode and remux the stream. So it's more difficult to do than with analogue.


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    #96
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Karsini wrote: »
    There is (or was) data in the TS that mentioned some frequencies. It said 738000 regardless of what TX you were on. It also had 198500 in the list which is not active anywhere as it's a VHF channel.

    News to me. The transport stream should only have indicators for the Local Mux being broadcast. In this case the Mux frequency is now 546MHZ.

    There will be no references to 738Mhz in the TS unless you are receiving from Kippure which was SFN with Three Rock, but not currently as Three Rock has moved frequency.

    Perhaps this is where the confusion lies. If you are Dublin your main transmitter Three Rock has now moved to Channel 30. Rescan your TV.


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    #97
    BubbleBalls
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭BubbleBalls


    STB wrote: »
    For those who dont understand the frequencies that equate to the channels.

    738000 = Channel 54.

    546000 = Channel 30.


    Hi,

    STB - thanks for quick reply and apologies if I am unclear here.

    I am new to Saorview and am using a VU+ Duo (not official) to manually scan the Irish channels. My working settings, until this morning, are below. does anything look out of place? Any ideas on why I cannot get the channels at all?

    Frequency. 738000
    Inversion. Auto
    Bandwidth. 8MHz
    Code rate HP. 2/3
    Code rate LP. 1/2
    Modulation. QAM64
    Trans mode. 8k
    Guard interval. 1/32
    Hierarchy. None


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    #98
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    STB wrote: »
    News to me. The transport stream should only have indicators for the Local Mux being broadcast. In this case the Mux frequency is now 546MHZ.

    There will be no references to 738Mhz in the TS unless you are receiving from Kippure which was SFN with Three Rock, but not currently as Three Rock has moved frequency.

    Perhaps this is where the confusion lies. If you are Dublin your main transmitter Three Rock has now moved to Channel 30. Rescan your TV.

    No confusion. I took a dump of the current NIT to check it myself. No mention of 738000 here, it only has 198500.

    All TX sites are transmitting the same TS so the NIT would be the same across all transmitters.

    Network Name: RTENL 1
Network ID: 12801 (0x3201)
Transport Stream ID: 1001 (0x03e9)
Original Network ID: 8564 (0x2174) Version: 17
Descriptor: Network Name Descriptor
DVB-T Frequency 198.500 MHz
Bandwidth: 8 MHz Constellation: 64-QAM
Hierarchy: non-hierarchical, native interleaver Guard Interval 1/32
Code Rate: 2/3
Current Network: True
Descriptor: Service List Descriptor
 Service: 1101 (RTÉ One) digital television service
 Service: 1102 (RTÉ Two) digital television service
 Service: 1103 (TV3) digital television service
 Service: 1104 (TG4) digital television service
 Service: 1105 (RTÉ News Now) digital television service
 Service: 1106 (3e) digital television service
 Service: 1107 (RTÉjr) digital television service
 Service: 1108 (RTÉ One +1) digital television service
 Service: 1226 (RTÉ Radio 1) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1227 (RTÉ 2FM) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1228 (RTÉ Lyric FM) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1229 (RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1230 (RTÉ Radio 1 Extra) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1231 (RTÉ Pulse) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1232 (RTÉ 2XM) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1233 (RTÉ Choice) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1234 (RTÉ Gold) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1235 (RTÉ Chill / RTÉ Junior) digital radio sound service
Descriptor: Frequency List Descriptor
 Terrestrial: 177.500 MHz
 Terrestrial: 184.500 MHz
 Terrestrial: 191.500 MHz
 Terrestrial: 198.500 MHz
 Terrestrial: 205.500 MHz
 Terrestrial: 212.500 MHz
 Terrestrial: 219.500 MHz
 Terrestrial: 474.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 482.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 514.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 530.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 546.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 626.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 666.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 674.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 682.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 690.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 706.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 722.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 730.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 738.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 746.000 MHz
Descriptor: Private Data Specifier Descriptor
 Private Data Specifier: Unknown
Descriptor: User Private Descriptor: 0x83
 Logical channel 1 = MPEG service 1101 (RTÉ One)
 Logical channel 2 = MPEG service 1102 (RTÉ Two)
 Logical channel 3 = MPEG service 1103 (TV3)
 Logical channel 4 = MPEG service 1104 (TG4)
 Logical channel 5 = MPEG service 1106 (3e)
 Logical channel 6 = MPEG service 1105 (RTÉ News Now)
 Logical channel 7 = MPEG service 1107 (RTÉjr)
 Logical channel 8 = MPEG service 1108 (RTÉ One +1)
 Logical channel 200 = MPEG service 1226 (RTÉ Radio 1)
 Logical channel 202 = MPEG service 1227 (RTÉ 2FM)
 Logical channel 203 = MPEG service 1228 (RTÉ Lyric FM)
 Logical channel 204 = MPEG service 1229 (RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta)
 Logical channel 201 = MPEG service 1230 (RTÉ Radio 1 Extra)
 Logical channel 205 = MPEG service 1231 (RTÉ Pulse)
 Logical channel 206 = MPEG service 1232 (RTÉ 2XM)
 Logical channel 207 = MPEG service 1233 (RTÉ Choice)
 Logical channel 208 = MPEG service 1234 (RTÉ Gold)
 Logical channel 209 = MPEG service 1235 (RTÉ Chill / RTÉ Junior)


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    #99
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    BubbleBalls wrote: »
    Hi,

    STB - thanks for quick reply and apologies if I am unclear here.

    I am new to Saorview and am using a VU+ Duo (not official) to manually scan the Irish channels. My working settings, until this morning, are below. does anything look out of place? Any ideas on why I cannot get the channels at all?

    Frequency. 738000
    Inversion. Auto
    Bandwidth. 8MHz
    Code rate HP. 2/3
    Code rate LP. 1/2
    Modulation. QAM64
    Trans mode. 8k
    Guard interval. 1/32
    Hierarchy. None

    Change the Top line to: 546000


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    #100
    Gyck
    Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭Gyck


    Re-tuned, receiving all channels on my group c/d aerial. Pheeeeu.


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    #101
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Karsini wrote: »
    No confusion. I took a dump of the current NIT to check it myself. No mention of 738000 here, it only has 198500.

    All TX sites are transmitting the same TS so the NIT would be the same across all transmitters. 
    Network Name: RTENL 1
etc
Descriptor: Frequency List Descriptor
 Terrestrial: 177.500 MHz
 Terrestrial: 184.500 MHz
 Terrestrial: 191.500 MHz
 Terrestrial: 198.500 MHz
 Terrestrial: 205.500 MHz
 Terrestrial: 212.500 MHz
 Terrestrial: 219.500 MHz
 Terrestrial: 474.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 482.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 514.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 530.000 MHz
[B] Terrestrial: 546.000 MHz[/B] [COLOR="Red"]Holywell, Kinsale & Three Rock[/COLOR]
Terrestrial: 626.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 666.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 674.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 682.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 690.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 706.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 722.000 MHz
 Terrestrial: 730.000 MHz
[B] Terrestrial: 738.000 MHz[/B] [COLOR="Red"]Kippure[/COLOR]
Terrestrial: 746.000 MHz

    What has this to do with people not being able to pick up Ch30 ? The NIT may change from time to time but the the Frequency List of Descriptors that the Network uses doesn't. (It includes frequencies that are not used alright including VHF - but that is in the Saorview spec, regardless of whether they use them or not). It doesnt affect reception. Its denifitions of where services can be found.

    Per your TS dump.

    738 is still defined in it as it must be for Kippure.

    As is 546 still defined in the NIT as it is used for Holywell and Kinsale.

    BTW The confusion I was referring to was that some people on the outskirts of Dublin are under the impression that Three Rock is still on as 738 is still working for them. This is not the case, they are receiving Kippure, hence the "drop" in signal.


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    #102
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    STB wrote: »
    What has this to do with people not being able to pick up Ch30 ? The NIT may change from time to time but the the Frequency List of Descriptors that the Network uses doesn't.

    738 is still defined in it as it must be for Kippure.

    As is 546 still defined in the NIT as it is used for Holywell and Kinsale.

    Nothing as such but is that not what we do on here? Discuss the technical side too? I was referring to the way the DVB-T frequency is defined at 198.500. It was 738.000 at one stage, no matter what TX you were receiving from, so I was asking if this was still the case (it's obviously not).


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    #103
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Karsini wrote: »
    Nothing as such but is that not what we do on here? Discuss the technical side too? I was referring to the way the DVB-T frequency is defined at 198.500. It was 738.000 at one stage, no matter what TX you were receiving from, so I was asking if this was still the case (it's obviously not).

    198.5MHZis just one frequency (albeit VHF) among the other frequencies defined in the NIT, not all of which are on air muxes.

    Once the Frequency list is defined in the NIT, that shouldnt make any difference to the channel scanning.


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    #104
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User] 


    Network Name: RTENL 1
Network ID: 12801 (0x3201)
Transport Stream ID: 1001 (0x03e9)
Original Network ID: 8564 (0x2174) Version: 17
Descriptor: Network Name Descriptor
[B]DVB-T Frequency 198.500 MHz[/B]
Bandwidth: 8 MHz Constellation: 64-QAM
Hierarchy: non-hierarchical, native interleaver Guard Interval 1/32
Code Rate: 2/3
Current Network: True
Descriptor: Service List Descriptor
 Service: 1101 (RTÉ One) digital television service
 Service: 1102 (RTÉ Two) digital television service
 Service: 1103 (TV3) digital television service
 Service: 1104 (TG4) digital television service
 Service: 1105 (RTÉ News Now) digital television service
 Service: 1106 (3e) digital television service
 Service: 1107 (RTÉjr) digital television service
 Service: 1108 (RTÉ One +1) digital television service
 Service: 1226 (RTÉ Radio 1) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1227 (RTÉ 2FM) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1228 (RTÉ Lyric FM) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1229 (RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1230 (RTÉ Radio 1 Extra) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1231 (RTÉ Pulse) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1232 (RTÉ 2XM) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1233 (RTÉ Choice) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1234 (RTÉ Gold) digital radio sound service
 Service: 1235 (RTÉ Chill / RTÉ Junior) digital radio sound service


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    #105
    BubbleBalls
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭BubbleBalls


    STB wrote: »
    Change the Top line to: 546000


    STB - Thanks very much for your help tonight - much appreciated. Rescanned Vu Duo to new Three Rock frequency, and all is working

    Frequency. 546000
    Inversion. Auto
    Bandwidth. 8MHz
    Code rate HP. 2/3
    Code rate LP. 1/2
    Modulation. QAM64
    Trans mode. 8k
    Guard interval. 1/32
    Hierarchy. None


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    #106
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,518 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Tony wrote: »
    Receiving both 3 rock and Kippure now in Tallaght on an indoor aerial.

    Manual scanning 30 for Three Rock and 54 for Kippure gives me 100% strength/quality on either transmitter, but on a full scan Kippure wins. Triax TR112, wideband attic aerial, Clondalkin, aligned in the Kippure direction.

    It seems a lot of people who were served by Three Rock (or thought they were) can get Kippure pefectly well too. Which raises the question, if Three Rock needs to move frequency how come Kippure doesn't, when their coverage areas overlap so much?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #107
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    @ Karsini. As NIT is low level info about the network I would hazard a guess that it (198.5) is a starting point for auto scans for muxes.

    Most non saorview certified equipment you may notice will start at Ch 21/474MHZ.


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    #108
    lawhec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    ninja900 wrote: »
    Manual scanning 30 for Three Rock and 54 for Kippure gives me 100% strength/quality on either transmitter, but on a full scan Kippure wins. Triax TR112, wideband attic aerial, Clondalkin, aligned in the Kippure direction.

    It seems a lot of people who were served by Three Rock (or thought they were) can get Kippure pefectly well too. Which raises the question, if Three Rock needs to move frequency how come Kippure doesn't, when their coverage areas overlap so much?
    Kippure's service area is a fair bit bigger than that of Three Rock.


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    #109
    Issac
    Registered Users Posts: 508 ✭✭✭Issac


    All working again now in Booterstown. Signal was back (on the new frequency) this morning. Thanks to all that helped.


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    #110
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,556 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I tried some measurements on reception on a STB and my main TV.

    The aerial is a WB log periodic external mounted about 3 metres off the ground on the gable end. It should be mounted at gutter height, but that will have to wait till I have a longer ladder.

    LG TV ++LD490 non-approved FreeviewHD version.

    CH 30 S= 62% Q=100%
    Ch 54 S= 22% Q=100%

    STB Tower ST1700

    CH 30 S=45% Q=96%
    CH 54 S=37% Q=68%

    Surprised to see anything from Kippure as there is a big mountain in the way. Both were watchable with no breakup.:)


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    #111
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    I tried some measurements on reception on a STB and my main TV.

    The aerial is a WB log periodic external mounted about 3 metres off the ground on the gable end. It should be mounted at gutter height, but that will have to wait till I have a longer ladder.

    LG TV ++LD490 non-approved FreeviewHD version.

    CH 30 S= 62% Q=100%
    Ch 54 S= 22% Q=100%

    STB Tower ST1700

    CH 30 S=45% Q=96%
    CH 54 S=37% Q=68%

    Surprised to see anything from Kippure as there is a big mountain in the way. Both were watchable with no breakup.:)

    Location?


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    #112
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,556 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    To_be_confirmed wrote: »
    Location?

    Not far from St Vincent's Hospital in Ballsbridge.


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    #113
    Hylus83
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Hylus83


    I use to be able to receive Saorview via rabbit-ears in Milltown (D6) with perfect reception (96% signal quality & strength). Since the change, i cant receive it anymore despite doing a re-scan. I cant pick up any signal whatsoever! :-( feck sake!!!


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    #114
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,545 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    Was at an elderly friends house in D14 (near Ballinteer) today expecting to do a retune and was surprised to find Kippure belting in almost as well as 3rock. It must be Voodoo :)


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    #115
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,556 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Gerry Wicklow wrote: »
    Was at an elderly friends house in D14 (near Ballinteer) today expecting to do a retune and was surprised to find Kippure belting in almost as well as 3rock. It must be Voodoo :)

    Radio reception is black magic. Always has been and always will be. We know the physics, sort of, and we know the theory, possibly, but we can always be surprised. Radio waves do not travel in straight lines, and certainly can go round corners. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't.

    My measurements surprised me that I could get a watchable signal from Kippure here as I thought that was impossible. There is a big mountain in the way.


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    #116
    ShaneU
    Registered Users Posts: 14,842 ✭✭✭✭ShaneU


    Just bought a Toshiba 42hl833b and can't get any channels on saorview. It's on the list on the website and I can pick up analogue stations fine. I've tried searching on both UK and Ireland settings and nothing, it says signal is strong too. I'm in North Dublin.


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    #117
    MarkK
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭MarkK


    Which analogue stations are you getting?
    ShaneU wrote: »
    it says signal is strong too.
    Is that on digital or on analogue?


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    #118
    Antenna
    Registered Users Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭Antenna


    MarkK wrote: »
    Which analogue stations are you getting?

    I bet that poster is connected to cable TV, not aerial.


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    #119
    ShaneU
    Registered Users Posts: 14,842 ✭✭✭✭ShaneU


    MarkK wrote: »
    Which analogue stations are you getting?.
    All of them (using white cable)
    ShaneU wrote: »
    it says signal is strong too.
    MarkK wrote: »
    Is that on digital or on analogue?
    Manual digital search.
    Antenna wrote: »
    MarkK wrote: »
    Which analogue stations are you getting?

    I bet that poster is connected to cable TV, not aerial.
    How do I connect to the aerial?


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    #120
    MarkK
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭MarkK


    ShaneU wrote: »
    All of them (using white cable)

    If you are getting "all" the channels already that presumably means you are on UPC. Saorview needs an aerial, it does not work on UPC cable.
    ShaneU wrote: »
    How do I connect to the aerial?

    Are you sure you have an aerial?


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    #121
    ShaneU
    Registered Users Posts: 14,842 ✭✭✭✭ShaneU


    Just checked and I don't have one! Just assumed every house did :(


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