Chael Sonnen Vs Anderson Silva

Ush1

I'll go Silva for the win but I really hope Chael does it.

Never liked Silvas personality, particularly after watching Like Water, but can't question his talent and achievements.

In the first fight Silva defo looked slower than usual, might have to do with being cracked to the jaw very early in the fight.

On the submission conspiracy, I remember thinking at the time watching the fight, when is the last time Anderson walked out in a gi? Also, in the documentary he insists to Big Nog that he will submit Chael rather than knock him out.

I think if Chael is to win it he must finish Anderson if he takes him down which I don't think he can do.

durano

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Look, I'm not going to get stuck into a back and forth with someone who implies I am making points I haven't made.

This is a discussion board, I discuss things here. If you want an argument then head to Sherdog.

I think I've been quite complimentary of Sonnen in this thread and have highlighted that he does indeed have a chance to win. What exactly is your issue here?

Finally, what makes you think a guy training Submission defence for a while prepares him for a guy who has been a black belt in BJJ for 6 years? It might shore up some of the more obvious mistakes but the reason guys get Black Belts is because they attack in a manner that is less obvious.

Edit : Also, you keep referring to the rib injury story as convenient, how would you classify Sonnen's failed test?

I'm sorry if you feel that someone having a view contrary to yours is arguing but it's just discussing really.
I'm not sure what points you think I wrongly implied you made?If I'm not mistaken you did say "My own view is that Silva was too focused on subbing Sonnen" and I just wanted to show you how I felt this was an incorrect view,i suppose that was "my issue",sorry if I hurt your feelings.

Finally,Sonnen is slightly more than a guy that's been training submission defense for a few months,he's an extremely high level wrestler that has been training submission defense with an extremely high level bjj artist and this could easily render him unsubmittable.

Now whilst the rib injury was very convienent I don't know how you want me to classify Sonnens failed test,there's not much to be said about it really.

durano

Dean09 wrote: »

When conversations go like this it does my head in.
Reminds me of all the Lesnar nuthugging that went on.
I think the majority of posters in this thread are siding with one fighter but also keeping an open mind and not counting the other out......... A decent discussion can then be had.
But calling the most dominant champ in UFC history a chicken, and saying he basically has no chance and discounting all his victories is really taking the biscuit.
Most people are going with Silva but also taking points on board about Sonnen and realising that he does indeed have a chance. But to go the other way and say Sonnen will definitely win and not having a coherent argument as to why, is just counter productive IMO.

I'm sorry if all this is doing your head in Dean but sometimes people have different opinions of fighters.
Where did anybody say Anderson has no chance and where were all his victories discounted?
You need to read a bit slower and concentrate a bit harder and then you may be able to identify the coherent arguments from the incoherent..

Logical Fallacy

durano wrote: »

Now whilst the rib injury was very convienent I don't know how you want me to classify Sonnens failed test,there's not much to be said about it really.

Of course there is some things to be said about it...like maybe it's possible that Sonnens dominance during the fight was due to being juiced to the gills?

As for the rest of your post, I'm ignoring all the parts with logical fallacies in them...which is basically the rest of your post.

El Guapo!

durano wrote: »

I'm sorry if all this is doing your head in Dean but sometimes people have different opinions of fighters.
Where did anybody say Anderson has no chance and where were all his victories discounted?
You need to read a bit slower and concentrate a bit harder and then you may be able to identify the coherent arguments from the incoherent..

You called him chickenshít.
You said he hasn't faced a high level BJJ artist or wrestler when he clearly has, and then when you were called out on it you changed your mind and said he didn't engage and should've ran straight into his guard (which is a ridiculous statement imo) --this is like discounting his victories.
Ok you may not have said Silva has no chance so I take that back.
But you're clearly biased towards Sonnen and I think this is clouding your judgement of Silvas capabilities.
And don't tell me how I should read posts.....your sentiments are clear from your posts.

Ush1

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Of course there is some things to be said about it...like maybe it's possible that Sonnens dominance during the fight was due to being juiced to the gills?

As for the rest of your post, I'm ignoring all the parts with logical fallacies in them...which is basically the rest of your post.

Emm, "juiced to the gills"?

Well if you feel that was the deciding factor why do you believe any different this time as Sonnen will be on TRT again.

MrStuffins

durano wrote: »

I'm calling him chicken**** cause if that was the real goat he would've waded straight into the bjj's artists guards and made bits of them.

This is by far the most stupid thing I've ever seen posted in the MMA forum.

durano

MrStuffins wrote: »

This is by far the most stupid thing I've ever seen posted in the MMA forum.

Any reason for this or is it just cause I'm disagreeing with you?

durano

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

As for the rest of your post, I'm ignoring all the parts with logical fallacies in them...which is basically the rest of your post.

Lol,oh right well that's handy isn't it.

Professey Chin

durano wrote: »

Any reason for this or is it just cause I'm disagreeing with you?

Because it makes absolutely no sense.
Why would the best MMA fighter try beat the best BJJ practitioner at his own game. This isnt BJJ. He has plenty of other options to win. Itd be like Couture having a punch in the face game with Carwin when he doesnt have to to win

durano

Dean09 wrote: »

You said he hasn't faced a high level BJJ artist or wrestler when he clearly has, and then when you were called out on it you changed your mind and said he didn't engage and should've ran straight into his guard (which is a ridiculous statement imo) --this is like discounting his victories.
Ok you may not have said Silva has no chance so I take that back.
But you're clearly biased towards Sonnen and I think this is clouding your judgement of Silvas capabilities.
And don't tell me how I should read posts.....your sentiments are clear from your posts.

Dean I asked you to read a bit slower and concentrate a bit more so that you can get the meaning of what's going on,perhaps you can show me where I said the highlighted things?
Also I would hope that my sentiments are clear in my posts,that is the intention of communication after all-to convey ones sentiments.

scudzilla

Hoping Sonnen does this, i reckon he'll win by TKO in the 3rd

He's beaten him before over 4 1/2 rounds, no reason at all why he won't do it again

Plastikman_eire

durano wrote: »

Any reason for this or is it just cause I'm disagreeing with you?

Seriously? You dont need to be a genius to see that fighting your opponent where they are strongest is a fairly rubbish plan for winning fights.

MrStuffins

durano wrote: »

MrStuffins wrote: »

This is by far the most stupid thing I've ever seen posted in the MMA forum.

Any reason for this or is it just cause I'm disagreeing with you?

It's self evident! It was a mind numbingly stupid thing to say! It doesn't warrant further discussion.

durano

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Because it makes absolutely no sense.
Why would the best MMA fighter try beat the best BJJ practitioner at his own game. This isnt BJJ. He has plenty of other options to win. Itd be like Couture having a punch in the face game with Carwin when he doesnt have to to win

I wasn't suggesting he should,I was suggesting that if he was any sort of goat that he would be able to.

durano

MrStuffins wrote: »

It's self evident! It was a mind numbingly stupid thing to say! It doesn't warrant further discussion.

Lol oh right,bitter much?

MrStuffins

durano wrote: »

MrStuffins wrote: »

It's self evident! It was a mind numbingly stupid thing to say! It doesn't warrant further discussion.

Lol oh right,bitter much?

This makes even less sense. Off to Sherdog with you.

durano

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Seriously? You dont need to be a genius to see that fighting your opponent where they are strongest is a fairly rubbish plan for winning fights.

i didn't suggest that it should be his plan but rather that if he was goat then he would be able to beat other fighters where they are strong instead of having to dance around them refusing to engage,it's not that difficult a concept to understand really,if you saw Fedor VS Nog(1 I think) you would know what I mean.

durano

MrStuffins wrote: »

This makes even less sense. Off to Sherdog with you.

Lol,sure.

Plastikman_eire

durano wrote: »

i didn't suggest that it should be his plan but rather that if he was goat then he would be able to beat other fighters where they are strong instead of having to dance around them refusing to engage,it's not that difficult a concept to understand really,if you saw Fedor VS Nog(1 I think) you would know what I mean.

Yes I saw fedor v nog, and that strategy from Fedor only worked because he is a better ground fighter than Nog plain and simple. The same strategy lost him the fight against Werdum.

It is ridiculous to think that a fighter cannot be considered one of the GOAT just because he encounters an opponent who is better I an aspect of the game than him.

If a champion isnt encountering those kind of opponents, then he is fighting the wrong people

El Guapo!

durano wrote: »

Dean I asked you to read a bit slower and concentrate a bit more so that you can get the meaning of what's going on,perhaps you can show me where I said the highlighted things?
Also I would hope that my sentiments are clear in my posts,that is the intention of communication after all-to convey ones sentiments.

I'm out of this conversation now. There's obviously no point in discussing it with you and if you can't reply in a civil manner rather than posting smart arse condescending things then I don't want to get involved in the discussion.

The Bored One

durano wrote: »

i didn't suggest that it should be his plan but rather that if he was goat then he would be able to beat other fighters where they are strong instead of having to dance around them refusing to engage,it's not that difficult a concept to understand really,if you saw Fedor VS Nog(1 I think) you would know what I mean.

By that logic, in order to qualify for GOAT then a fighter would have to be better than every other fighter in every possible skill set and range. Which means we have zero candidates as of yet, at least until they start making cyborgs designed for fighting....the iFedor.

tvercetti

durano wrote:

I've trained ufc all my life brah.

durano wrote: »

I'm sorry if you feel that someone having a view contrary to yours is arguing but it's just discussing really.
I'm not sure what points you think I wrongly implied you made?If I'm not mistaken you did say "My own view is that Silva was too focused on subbing Sonnen" and I just wanted to show you how I felt this was an incorrect view,i suppose that was "my issue",sorry if I hurt your feelings.

Finally,Sonnen is slightly more than a guy that's been training submission defense for a few months,he's an extremely high level wrestler that has been training submission defense with an extremely high level bjj artist and this could easily render him unsubmittable.

Now whilst the rib injury was very convienent I don't know how you want me to classify Sonnens failed test,there's not much to be said about it really.

I lol'd at that statement, you must be unhurtable from your lifes training.

durano

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

It is ridiculous to think that a fighter cannot be considered one of the GOAT just because he encounters an opponent who is better I an aspect of the game than him.

If a champion isnt encountering those kind of opponents, then he is fighting the wrong people

I agree 100%,to suggest that a fighter can't be goat because he he encounters an opponent who is better I an aspect of the game than him is totally ridiculous.
That's why I never said such a stupid thing.

durano

The Bored One wrote: »

By that logic, in order to qualify for GOAT then a fighter would have to be better than every other fighter in every possible skill set and range. Which means we have zero candidates as of yet, at least until they start making cyborgs designed for fighting....the iFedor.

Nah,not better, just willing to engage in some meaningful manner instead of prancing around.
Serious amount of Silva nuthuggery going on in this thread,help me somebody.

scudzilla

durano wrote: »

Nah,not better, just willing to engage in some meaningful manner instead of prancing around.
Serious amount of Silva nuthuggery going on in this thread,help me somebody.

I heard the call

I hate Silva, can't stand what he's become, a cocky fighter.

I really want Sonnen to beat the crap outta him, i love the way Chael winds people up

Professey Chin

durano wrote: »

I wasn't suggesting he should,I was suggesting that if he was any sort of goat that he would be able to.

Why should he? Being the GOAT of all time should be about nobody being able to beat you in your field not being able to beat people in their own specialty.

tvercetti

scudzilla wrote: »

I heard the call

I hate Silva, can't stand what he's become, a cocky fighter.

I really want Sonnen to beat the crap outta him, i love the way Chael winds people up

That was my way of thinking a while back but Chaels act has grown old in the past few months in my mind. Its a shame this rematch didnt happen sooner although Chael was impressive against Stann, his fight with Bisping was poor.

I think this fight is great for Silva, if he wins convincingly, nobody could begrudge him. He is taking Chael more seriously and I expect him to win.

EDIT: When I say its a great match for Silva, I mean its great for his legacy, he can silence those who question him or accuses him of dancing away from opponents because he wont be able to avoid and dance around Chael

durano

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Why should he? Being the GOAT of all time should be about nobody being able to beat you in your field not being able to beat people in their own specialty.

oh right,who told you this nonsense?

The Bored One

durano wrote: »

Nah,not better, just willing to engage in some meaningful manner instead of prancing around.
Serious amount of Silva nuthuggery going on in this thread,help me somebody.

Eh, Ive already stated that either fighter could take this one. Silva's performance against Leites was disgraceful, but I'd consider it more due to his attitude than any lack of ability. He has shown plenty of ability in terms of ground work before. If you disagree thats cool, Im just curious if its the ability or the attitude that you think precludes him as GOAT?