Chael Sonnen Vs Anderson Silva

Locomotion

So obviously we all want Chael to win but will he?

Plastikman_eire

Locomotion wrote: »

So obviously we all want Chael to win but will he?

Anderson is going to beat Chael like a redheaded step child.

Sonnen is over confident because he had some success against an injured Silva last time around, but lets be realistic, he barely squeaked past Bisping. An injury free Anderson is going to smash him.

alanrebelsw

Silva by ko...sonnen is some langer

reganreggie

i predict Silva by decsion. This fight simply wont live up to the hype

onlyasuggestion

reganreggie wrote: »

i predict Silva by decsion. This fight simply wont live up to the hype

Might not live up to the hype but I can't see Silva winning by decision. If it goes his way probably an early knockout, if not we could see a repeat of the first fight.

What do people think of the rest of the card? Mike Easton v Ivan Menjivar should be exciting

T-b0n3

It's heating up.

Silva went mad on a media call yesterday. Article here about it for those who missed it http://www.mmafighting.com/ufc/2012/6/25/3116761/anderson-silva-explodes-on-chael-sonnen-hes-going-to-need-a-plastic

Really looking forward to this one, but unlike the OP I'm firmly on team Silva! Just got the love for the Spider.

preddy

Chael doesn't get knocked out so a decision is on the cards for me.

I'm a Silva fan but Chael always brings it, beating Stann set this up nicely.

El Guapo!

Based on the recent performances of both fighters, I'd give this to Silva by ko.
Sonnen wasn't all that impressive against Bisping but in saying that, as much as Bisping annoys me, he is also much improved.
I think Silva will win convincingly but there's always a chance we will get to see a repeat of last time........I'd never count Sonnen out.
Either way I think it'll be a cracking fight and I can't wait for it!

MrStuffins

Silva wins by........... whatever fashion he wants.

No way Silva is gonna give Chael the opportunity to do the same as the first fight!

it's not going past 2 rounds! I'll be surprised if it gets out of the first!

The Bored One

Really looking forward to this, quite curious to see how it differs from the first fight. Did Silva's injury really make that much of a difference or did Chael just have his number?
And if he did have him pegged, as Anderson developed to deal with that?
And very importantly has Sonnen learned some damn sub defence?
I love fights that answer questions about fighters like this.

Locomotion

Don't forget Anderson has also had an almost 11 month lay-off between fights and is now 37 years old.

Sonnen has been training jitz with Vinny Magalhaes and you'd have to assume he's been doing countless hours of sub defence since that famous triangle.

Chael's never been KO'ed in almost 40 fights and he seems perfectly happy to stand and bang with Silva (and get the better of the exchange)

Kinda surprised at the +235 price on Sonnen. If nothing else, I see this as a 50/50 fight all dependent on whether Silva can pull off a submission

durano

Anderson pisses me off no end these days,I've a feeling that what Pele was saying is true(he's a beast when he's winning but a lamb if he's losing) and I've a feeling that there was no rib injury last time he fought Chael and that he just invented it to save face and degrade Chaels performance.
People always said that his kryptonite would be someone with a decent double leg and that's Chael right?When was the last time Anderson fought a high calibre wrestler that wanted to take him down and hold him there,I'm praying that his numbers up,we're due a huge upset anyhow and huge hype creates huge upsets.

Plastikman_eire

Locomotion wrote: »

Don't forget Anderson has also had an almost 11 month lay-off between fights and is now 37 years old.

Sonnen has been training jitz with Vinny Magalhaes and you'd have to assume he's been doing countless hours of sub defence since that famous triangle.

Chael's never been KO'ed in almost 40 fights and he seems perfectly happy to stand and bang with Silva (and get the better of the exchange)

Kinda surprised at the +235 price on Sonnen. If nothing else, I see this as a 50/50 fight all dependent on whether Silva can pull off a submission

Terry Martin stopped him with strikes didnt he?

Shazbot

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Terry Martin stopped him with strikes didnt he?

He's been stopped by TKO twice. Once to Martin and once to Jeremy Horn. Both of them were doctor stoppages due to cuts.

MrStuffins

Locomotion wrote: »

Kinda surprised at the +235 price on Sonnen. If nothing else, I see this as a 50/50 fight all dependent on whether Silva can pull off a submission

I think the first fight is really flattering Sonnen's chances here. Anderson's "Kryptonite" used to be someone with super BJJ, then he beat Lutter.... his Kryptonite became a super wrestler, until he beat Hendo, then it was BJJ again, now its wrestlers again.

No doubt Sonnen can dominate with his wrestling, but will he? I don't think so. Silva will stop him.

durano

MrStuffins wrote: »

I think the first fight is really flattering Sonnen's chances here. Anderson's "Kryptonite" used to be someone with super BJJ, then he beat Lutter.... his Kryptonite became a super wrestler, until he beat Hendo, then it was BJJ again, now its wrestlers again.

No doubt Sonnen can dominate with his wrestling, but will he? I don't think so. Silva will stop him.

I wouldn't pay much attention to the Lutter fight,there was obviously something up with Lutter as he missed weight and his bjj hadn't been super for a good while anyway.And Hendo just uses his wrestling to keep it standing and we seen how chicken**** Anderson was against Leites.
It's not like Anderson has wiped the floor with worldclass bjj artist or wrestler(who wants to use wrestling for take downs)-quite the opposite actually no?He ran from Leites and got dominated by Chael?

The Bored One

MrStuffins wrote: »

I think the first fight is really flattering Sonnen's chances here. Anderson's "Kryptonite" used to be someone with super BJJ, then he beat Lutter.... his Kryptonite became a super wrestler, until he beat Hendo, then it was BJJ again, now its wrestlers again.

No doubt Sonnen can dominate with his wrestling, but will he? I don't think so. Silva will stop him.

I'm thinking that Silva is more likely to take this because of how they've both looked since, but I'd still rate it a bit more even than that. Yes, Sonnen controlled alot of the fight via his wrestling, but he also never really let Silva get comfortable with his stand-up. That could be attributed to the injured rib of course, or it could be because alot of the fights against Silva start out cautious, which gives him a chance to get his opponents measure.
Victory by either Sonnen or Silva seems possible to me though. And whoever does win, will likely do so in a way that makes it seem like that was the inevitable result all along.

Plastikman_eire

Shazbot wrote: »

He's been stopped by TKO twice. Once to Martin and once to Jeremy Horn. Both of them were doctor stoppages due to cuts.

Found a pbp of the Martin fight, and It seems chael had a broken rib and retire between rounds.

Plastikman_eire

durano wrote: »

I wouldn't pay much attention to the Lutter fight,there was obviously something up with Lutter as he missed weight and his bjj hadn't been super for a good while anyway.And Hendo just uses his wrestling to keep it standing and we seen how chicken**** Anderson was against Leites.
It's not like Anderson has wiped the floor with worldclass bjj artist or wrestler(who wants to use wrestling for take downs)-quite the opposite actually no?He ran from Leites and got dominated by Chael?

He played with Leithes because he didnt have any business being in the ring with him.

Leites most impressive win in his title run came from getting the sh.it in all manner of illegal fashions by Nate Marquardt.

MrStuffins

durano wrote: »

MrStuffins wrote: »

I think the first fight is really flattering Sonnen's chances here. Anderson's "Kryptonite" used to be someone with super BJJ, then he beat Lutter.... his Kryptonite became a super wrestler, until he beat Hendo, then it was BJJ again, now its wrestlers again.

No doubt Sonnen can dominate with his wrestling, but will he? I don't think so. Silva will stop him.

I wouldn't pay much attention to the Lutter fight,there was obviously something up with Lutter as he missed weight and his bjj hadn't been super for a good while anyway.And Hendo just uses his wrestling to keep it standing and we seen how chicken**** Anderson was against Leites.
It's not like Anderson has wiped the floor with worldclass bjj artist or wrestler(who wants to use wrestling for take downs)-quite the opposite actually no?He ran from Leites and got dominated by Chael?

Demian Maia isn't world class BJJ?

Also, he ran from Leites? Did you even see that fight?

The fact you called him Chicken Sh*t shows you have a serious bias here so no point expecting a balanced opinion here i guess.

PerrinV2

Han the Silva

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmwTcaWq7Fo

Logical Fallacy

durano wrote: »

Anderson pisses me off no end these days,I've a feeling that what Pele was saying is true(he's a beast when he's winning but a lamb if he's losing) and I've a feeling that there was no rib injury last time he fought Chael and that he just invented it to save face and degrade Chaels performance.
People always said that his kryptonite would be someone with a decent double leg and that's Chael right?When was the last time Anderson fought a high calibre wrestler that wanted to take him down and hold him there,I'm praying that his numbers up,we're due a huge upset anyhow and huge hype creates huge upsets.

Sonnen, and he beat him.

Also, nothing was required of Silva to degrade Chael's performance...a drug test did that.

Can't wait till this fight is over I have to say.

durano

MrStuffins wrote: »

Demian Maia isn't world class BJJ?

Also, he ran from Leites? Did you even see that fight?

The fact you called him Chicken Sh*t shows you have a serious bias here so no point expecting a balanced opinion here i guess.

Jaysus,totally forgot about Maia,yeah Maia is worldclass and Anderson wouldn't engage with him,he decisioned him,just like the Leites fight,problem?
I'm calling him chicken**** cause if that was the real goat he would've waded straight into the bjj's artists guards and made bits of them,like you know who,sorry if I hurt your feelings.

CageWager

durano wrote: »

Jaysus,totally forgot about Maia,yeah Maia is worldclass and Anderson wouldn't engage with him,he decisioned him,just like the Leites fight,problem?
I'm calling him chicken**** cause if that was the real goat he would've waded straight into the bjj's artists guards and made bits of them,like you know who,sorry if I hurt your feelings.

LOL!!

How long have you been a fan of MMA, about 6 months?

durano

CageWager wrote: »

LOL!!

How long have you been a fan of MMA, about 6 months?

I've trained ufc all my life brah.

durano

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

He played with Leithes because he didnt have any business being in the ring with him.

Where did you hear this?I'd say it had more to do with the way Thales submitted Pele(who is very similiar stylistically to Anderson,except tougher) a couple of years previously,Anderson didn't want the same thing to happen to him.

durano

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Sonnen, and he beat him.

A lot of people think Sonnen dominated for most of the fight and that Anderson got lucky just at the end,what do you think of this analysis?

Logical Fallacy

durano wrote: »

A lot of people think Sonnen dominated for most of the fight and that Anderson got lucky just at the end,what do you think of this analysis?

I think a come from behind win speaks volumes of The Spiders mental strength. Sonnen handled him for 20 mins and still couldn't break him, yet despite the clear psychological advantage Sonnen still couldn't find it within himself to fight the triangle.

There is nothing to indicate this fight goes any differently even if Sonnen is in control for the early rounds, or even most of the fight.

My own view is that Silva was too focused on subbing Sonnen, in this one I expect him to just straight smash him.

Both guys have questions to answer...was the rib injury true and did it really impact on the Spider so much, exactly how much help was Sonnen's test level to him etc etc.

I expect The Spider to win this, but I wouldn't completely discount Sonnen who is a clever and crafty fighter.

If Sonnen beats the Spider then my hat is off to him, it's a massive win to take out an undefeated Champion who has never lost in the UFC. I just don't think he will do it.

durano

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I think a come from behind win speaks volumes of The Spiders mental strength. Sonnen handled him for 20 mins and still couldn't break him, yet despite the clear psychological advantage Sonnen still couldn't find it within himself to fight the triangle.

There is nothing to indicate this fight goes any differently even if Sonnen is in control for the early rounds, or even most of the fight.

My own view is that Silva was too focused on subbing Sonnen, in this one I expect him to just straight smash him.

Both guys have questions to answer...was the rib injury true and did it really impact on the Spider so much, exactly how much help was Sonnen's test level to him etc etc.

I expect The Spider to win this, but I wouldn't completely discount Sonnen who is a clever and crafty fighter.

If Sonnen beats the Spider then my hat is off to him, it's a massive win to take out an undefeated Champion who has never lost in the UFC. I just don't think he will do it.

So the only problem with Silva(besides the convienient "hurt" rib) was that he was too focussed on the sub?Cause what I saw was Anderson doing everything in his power to do damage and keep his hips back from Sonnen in an attempt to avoid the takedown,then when he got taken down I didn't see him get controlled but more like totally dominated by ground and pound and wrestlings positional dominance.
But you reckon all this was planned so that he could get the sub?
The fight is here if you want to watch again - http://www.bloodyelbow.com/

Also,the fact that Sonnen has been training exclusively submission defense with some very high level bjj artists suggest it might go differently no?

Logical Fallacy

durano wrote: »

So the only problem with Silva(besides the convienient "hurt" rib) was that he was too focussed on the sub?Cause what I saw was Anderson doing everything in his power to do damage and keep his hips back from Sonnen in an attempt to avoid the takedown,then when he got taken down I didn't see him get controlled but more like totally dominated by ground and pound and wrestlings positional dominance.
But you reckon all this was planned so that he could get the sub?
The fight is here if you want to watch again - http://www.bloodyelbow.com/

Also,the fact that Sonnen has been training exclusively submission defense with some very high level bjj artists suggest it might go differently no?

Look, I'm not going to get stuck into a back and forth with someone who implies I am making points I haven't made.

This is a discussion board, I discuss things here. If you want an argument then head to Sherdog.

I think I've been quite complimentary of Sonnen in this thread and have highlighted that he does indeed have a chance to win. What exactly is your issue here?

Finally, what makes you think a guy training Submission defence for a while prepares him for a guy who has been a black belt in BJJ for 6 years? It might shore up some of the more obvious mistakes but the reason guys get Black Belts is because they attack in a manner that is less obvious.

Edit : Also, you keep referring to the rib injury story as convenient, how would you classify Sonnen's failed test?

El Guapo!

When conversations go like this it does my head in.
Reminds me of all the Lesnar nuthugging that went on.
I think the majority of posters in this thread are siding with one fighter but also keeping an open mind and not counting the other out......... A decent discussion can then be had.
But calling the most dominant champ in UFC history a chicken, and saying he basically has no chance and discounting all his victories is really taking the biscuit.
Most people are going with Silva but also taking points on board about Sonnen and realising that he does indeed have a chance. But to go the other way and say Sonnen will definitely win and not having a coherent argument as to why, is just counter productive IMO.

Ush1

I'll go Silva for the win but I really hope Chael does it.

Never liked Silvas personality, particularly after watching Like Water, but can't question his talent and achievements.

In the first fight Silva defo looked slower than usual, might have to do with being cracked to the jaw very early in the fight.

On the submission conspiracy, I remember thinking at the time watching the fight, when is the last time Anderson walked out in a gi? Also, in the documentary he insists to Big Nog that he will submit Chael rather than knock him out.

I think if Chael is to win it he must finish Anderson if he takes him down which I don't think he can do.

durano

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Look, I'm not going to get stuck into a back and forth with someone who implies I am making points I haven't made.

This is a discussion board, I discuss things here. If you want an argument then head to Sherdog.

I think I've been quite complimentary of Sonnen in this thread and have highlighted that he does indeed have a chance to win. What exactly is your issue here?

Finally, what makes you think a guy training Submission defence for a while prepares him for a guy who has been a black belt in BJJ for 6 years? It might shore up some of the more obvious mistakes but the reason guys get Black Belts is because they attack in a manner that is less obvious.

Edit : Also, you keep referring to the rib injury story as convenient, how would you classify Sonnen's failed test?

I'm sorry if you feel that someone having a view contrary to yours is arguing but it's just discussing really.
I'm not sure what points you think I wrongly implied you made?If I'm not mistaken you did say "My own view is that Silva was too focused on subbing Sonnen" and I just wanted to show you how I felt this was an incorrect view,i suppose that was "my issue",sorry if I hurt your feelings.

Finally,Sonnen is slightly more than a guy that's been training submission defense for a few months,he's an extremely high level wrestler that has been training submission defense with an extremely high level bjj artist and this could easily render him unsubmittable.

Now whilst the rib injury was very convienent I don't know how you want me to classify Sonnens failed test,there's not much to be said about it really.

durano

Dean09 wrote: »

When conversations go like this it does my head in.
Reminds me of all the Lesnar nuthugging that went on.
I think the majority of posters in this thread are siding with one fighter but also keeping an open mind and not counting the other out......... A decent discussion can then be had.
But calling the most dominant champ in UFC history a chicken, and saying he basically has no chance and discounting all his victories is really taking the biscuit.
Most people are going with Silva but also taking points on board about Sonnen and realising that he does indeed have a chance. But to go the other way and say Sonnen will definitely win and not having a coherent argument as to why, is just counter productive IMO.

I'm sorry if all this is doing your head in Dean but sometimes people have different opinions of fighters.
Where did anybody say Anderson has no chance and where were all his victories discounted?
You need to read a bit slower and concentrate a bit harder and then you may be able to identify the coherent arguments from the incoherent..

Logical Fallacy

durano wrote: »

Now whilst the rib injury was very convienent I don't know how you want me to classify Sonnens failed test,there's not much to be said about it really.

Of course there is some things to be said about it...like maybe it's possible that Sonnens dominance during the fight was due to being juiced to the gills?

As for the rest of your post, I'm ignoring all the parts with logical fallacies in them...which is basically the rest of your post.

El Guapo!

durano wrote: »

I'm sorry if all this is doing your head in Dean but sometimes people have different opinions of fighters.
Where did anybody say Anderson has no chance and where were all his victories discounted?
You need to read a bit slower and concentrate a bit harder and then you may be able to identify the coherent arguments from the incoherent..

You called him chickenshít.
You said he hasn't faced a high level BJJ artist or wrestler when he clearly has, and then when you were called out on it you changed your mind and said he didn't engage and should've ran straight into his guard (which is a ridiculous statement imo) --this is like discounting his victories.
Ok you may not have said Silva has no chance so I take that back.
But you're clearly biased towards Sonnen and I think this is clouding your judgement of Silvas capabilities.
And don't tell me how I should read posts.....your sentiments are clear from your posts.

Ush1

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Of course there is some things to be said about it...like maybe it's possible that Sonnens dominance during the fight was due to being juiced to the gills?

As for the rest of your post, I'm ignoring all the parts with logical fallacies in them...which is basically the rest of your post.

Emm, "juiced to the gills"?

Well if you feel that was the deciding factor why do you believe any different this time as Sonnen will be on TRT again.

MrStuffins

durano wrote: »

I'm calling him chicken**** cause if that was the real goat he would've waded straight into the bjj's artists guards and made bits of them.

This is by far the most stupid thing I've ever seen posted in the MMA forum.

durano

MrStuffins wrote: »

This is by far the most stupid thing I've ever seen posted in the MMA forum.

Any reason for this or is it just cause I'm disagreeing with you?

durano

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

As for the rest of your post, I'm ignoring all the parts with logical fallacies in them...which is basically the rest of your post.

Lol,oh right well that's handy isn't it.

Professey Chin

durano wrote: »

Any reason for this or is it just cause I'm disagreeing with you?

Because it makes absolutely no sense.
Why would the best MMA fighter try beat the best BJJ practitioner at his own game. This isnt BJJ. He has plenty of other options to win. Itd be like Couture having a punch in the face game with Carwin when he doesnt have to to win

durano

Dean09 wrote: »

You said he hasn't faced a high level BJJ artist or wrestler when he clearly has, and then when you were called out on it you changed your mind and said he didn't engage and should've ran straight into his guard (which is a ridiculous statement imo) --this is like discounting his victories.
Ok you may not have said Silva has no chance so I take that back.
But you're clearly biased towards Sonnen and I think this is clouding your judgement of Silvas capabilities.
And don't tell me how I should read posts.....your sentiments are clear from your posts.

Dean I asked you to read a bit slower and concentrate a bit more so that you can get the meaning of what's going on,perhaps you can show me where I said the highlighted things?
Also I would hope that my sentiments are clear in my posts,that is the intention of communication after all-to convey ones sentiments.

scudzilla

Hoping Sonnen does this, i reckon he'll win by TKO in the 3rd

He's beaten him before over 4 1/2 rounds, no reason at all why he won't do it again

Plastikman_eire

durano wrote: »

Any reason for this or is it just cause I'm disagreeing with you?

Seriously? You dont need to be a genius to see that fighting your opponent where they are strongest is a fairly rubbish plan for winning fights.

MrStuffins

durano wrote: »

MrStuffins wrote: »

This is by far the most stupid thing I've ever seen posted in the MMA forum.

Any reason for this or is it just cause I'm disagreeing with you?

It's self evident! It was a mind numbingly stupid thing to say! It doesn't warrant further discussion.

durano

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Because it makes absolutely no sense.
Why would the best MMA fighter try beat the best BJJ practitioner at his own game. This isnt BJJ. He has plenty of other options to win. Itd be like Couture having a punch in the face game with Carwin when he doesnt have to to win

I wasn't suggesting he should,I was suggesting that if he was any sort of goat that he would be able to.

durano

MrStuffins wrote: »

It's self evident! It was a mind numbingly stupid thing to say! It doesn't warrant further discussion.

Lol oh right,bitter much?

MrStuffins

durano wrote: »

MrStuffins wrote: »

It's self evident! It was a mind numbingly stupid thing to say! It doesn't warrant further discussion.

Lol oh right,bitter much?

This makes even less sense. Off to Sherdog with you.

durano

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Seriously? You dont need to be a genius to see that fighting your opponent where they are strongest is a fairly rubbish plan for winning fights.

i didn't suggest that it should be his plan but rather that if he was goat then he would be able to beat other fighters where they are strong instead of having to dance around them refusing to engage,it's not that difficult a concept to understand really,if you saw Fedor VS Nog(1 I think) you would know what I mean.

durano

MrStuffins wrote: »

This makes even less sense. Off to Sherdog with you.

Lol,sure.

Plastikman_eire

durano wrote: »

i didn't suggest that it should be his plan but rather that if he was goat then he would be able to beat other fighters where they are strong instead of having to dance around them refusing to engage,it's not that difficult a concept to understand really,if you saw Fedor VS Nog(1 I think) you would know what I mean.

Yes I saw fedor v nog, and that strategy from Fedor only worked because he is a better ground fighter than Nog plain and simple. The same strategy lost him the fight against Werdum.

It is ridiculous to think that a fighter cannot be considered one of the GOAT just because he encounters an opponent who is better I an aspect of the game than him.

If a champion isnt encountering those kind of opponents, then he is fighting the wrong people