Ulster Bank League 2012-2013 talk/gossip/rumours

ormond lad

The draws for the traditional season curtain raisers in Munster, the city charity cups, have been made.
In Limerick the draw is as follows
Limerick Charity Cup 12/13
Round 1
24/8 or 25/8
A. Shannon v Thomond B. Garryowen v Nenagh
24/8
C. Bruff v UL Bohs D. Young Munster v Old Crescent
Semi-Final
1/9 A v C
2/9 D v B
Final
8/9 or 9/9

In Leinster the league cup draw has been made and all the fixtures can be seen here
Section A
Bective Rangers
Lansdowne
St Marys College
Terenure College
UCD

Section B
Blackrock College
Clontarf
Dublin University
Greystones
Old Belvedere

Podge_irl

Its Tarf's year...

chris85

Podge_irl wrote: »

Its Tarf's year...

Agreed, was too close last season.

bamboozle

Podge_irl wrote: »

Its Tarf's year...

i hope so...

Signing's i've heard, Quinn McDonagh to YM from Shannon (via Doncaster)
Andrew Burke from YM to Marys
Barry O'Mahoney has been offered a munster contract apparently, i presume he'll be made play with a munster club, he's a garryowen man so i'd expect to see him back there.
Clontarf has made 2 good signings. One an excellent outhalf from another Dublin club, the other a development Leinster player.

Niall Treston has retired.

Gracelessly Tom

bamboozle wrote: »

i hope so...

Signing's i've heard, Quinn McDonagh to YM from Shannon (via Doncaster)
Andrew Burke from YM to Marys
Barry O'Mahoney has been offered a munster contract apparently, i presume he'll be made play with a munster club, he's a garryowen man so i'd expect to see him back there.
Clontarf has made 2 good signings. One an excellent outhalf from another Dublin club, the other a development Leinster player.

Niall Treston has retired.

Go on, elaborate on the Tarf signings??

the perfect ten

I was told that Darragh Fitzpatrick is joining Clontarf from Blackrock. Can anyone confirm this?

bamboozle

the perfect ten wrote: »

I was told that Darragh Fitzpatrick is joining Clontarf from Blackrock. Can anyone confirm this?

he's one of the two guys i alluded to above. He's single-handedly kept Rock going for the last few seasons, smashing player from what i've seen of him.

Other guy is a fringe 2nd row at Leinster.

Also a prop from Garryowen i believe.

Tarf were disjointed at 10 last season using Reid, Dufficey and Evan Ryan, Fitzpatrick at 10 is a serious signing.

shaungil

Anyone know if there is much cash floating around the league these days? Do guys get paid to play or win bonuses or anything. Seeing guys moving clubs you'd often wonder if there is financial inducements for players.

Wow did Tarf get Brad Thorne!!!!!

bamboozle

shaungil wrote: »

Anyone know if there is much cash floating around the league these days? Do guys get paid to play or win bonuses or anything. Seeing guys moving clubs you'd often wonder if there is financial inducements for players.

Wow did Tarf get Brad Thorne!!!!!

dont think there's much cash floating around anywhere these days!
what i've heard is of win bonuses but i'm sure plenty of players get paid, think there's a rule of no more than 3 or 4k PA.
half the reason guys are moving clubs these days is they are moving areas in search of work.

Malmedicine

bamboozle wrote: »

Other guy is a fringe 2nd row at Leinster.

Mark Flanagan by any chance???

roycon

think mark flannagan is staying with ucd along with alan o'connor whos playing for ire u20s at the moment in the second row. could be neilus keogh from lansdowne or eoin sheriff or someone like that. or even ciaran ruddock.

matt darcy was playing outhalf for clontarf at the end of the season and was doing a decent job.

roycon

shaungil wrote: »

Anyone know if there is much cash floating around the league these days? Do guys get paid to play or win bonuses or anything. Seeing guys moving clubs you'd often wonder if there is financial inducements for players.

Wow did Tarf get Brad Thorne!!!!!

old belvo,clontarf pay per game i think. 250 for winning an ail game and then the big players would get a bitta cash on top of that. blackrock have no money and are struggling to retain any players. ucd and trinity can give out sport scholarships which are worth upto 6,000 for teh top ones. landsowne used to have the most money but i dont think there splashing the cash as musch as they use to. i remember eamon sheridan was getting paid 7000 supposdely when he was only playing u20s

garryowenman

Does anyone know if the top 4 playoffs are going to be reintroduced next year.

I think the league would be far more competive if they were made part of the league.

It would be far more beneficial for both limerick and cork teams if the changes were made

Also does anyone know if there will be changes made regarding the rules for contracted players in the league

As far as I know you are only allowed 2 full contracted players at present.

If the rules change munster will have getting games for players rather than having them sit on the sideline when there isnt A games on.

Another rule that needs to be looked at is the number of subs for ulster bank games.

The number is 5 at the moment, this is very restrictive and doesnt give young players much of a chance of getting game time at senior level

I know the irfu are trying to protect senior 2nds rugby but at the same time they are holding back young guys from progressing if they do not have the opportunity to play senior because of the rules

What do other club supporters think about this ?

ormond lad

I posted these answers to these qs that you also asked on mf's
There's been no change to amount of contracted players allowed.
playoffs not being reintroduced. i think they should be reintroduced
I disagree with you on the number of subs. clubs are struggling to field teams down below their 1st teams and only having 5 subs means there's more players available to play 2nds/3rds
You are only allowed 2 fully contracted players in a match day squad.

bamboozle

roycon wrote: »

think mark flannagan is staying with ucd along with alan o'connor whos playing for ire u20s at the moment in the second row. could be neilus keogh from lansdowne or eoin sheriff or someone like that. or even ciaran ruddock.

matt darcy was playing outhalf for clontarf at the end of the season and was doing a decent job.

Flanagan's the name i heard.

Darcy played 10 in the final league game of the season but Fitzpatrick has signed and i'd expect him to be in the 10 jersey next season.

Regarding the above points re league structure.

Top 4 play-offs are a must to keep the league competitive, we were lucky last season how it panned out with 3 teams in the hunt and the way the fixtures fell. Still 2 fully contracted players per squad with one max in the pack but development and academy players are not restricted, these rules are up for review end of this season.

personally i'd like to see the full 7 subs, in Div 1 at the very least, i'd also like to see more friday night games, we'd 2 fri night games in clontarf which attracted larger crowds and the bars were kept busy afterwards, scrapping the top 4 was the most idiotic thing imaginable - however apparently this was the clubs decision.

finally for the top 4 play off i'd have the final in the home ground of which ever finalist finished higher in the league.

roycon

news to me about flannagan.is that confirmed or are they just in talks. they'll still have crawford, chipman, the australian guy in the second row as long as a few other young lads coming through. should be very strong. id say tadhg furlong may even be getting a run out in the front row on the looks of things from the jwc

bamboozle

roycon wrote: »

news to me about flannagan.is that confirmed or are they just in talks. they'll still have crawford, chipman, the australian guy in the second row as long as a few other young lads coming through. should be very strong. id say tadhg furlong may even be getting a run out in the front row on the looks of things from the jwc

i'd say Chipman is gone, Crawford is terrorising teams more from the backrow these days. Realistically this coming season we'll see Furlong blooded at AIL level. Leinster bench still another 12 months away, he's still only 19 and doesnt need to be rushed.

ormond lad

Noel O'Meara, former Nenagh and Young Munster player and current Munster Rugby CDO, will be head coach of Thomond next season

Anyone know when fixtures are announced?

roycon

Terenue have borught in a 7 from Young Munster supposedly and the news is now that mark Flannagan has moved to Marys

ormond lad

ormond lad wrote: »

Noel O'Meara, former Nenagh and Young Munster player and current Munster Rugby CDO, will be head coach of Thomond next season

Anyone know when fixtures are announced?

Mike Grimes will still be head coach with Thomond with Kevin King becoming his assistant coach.
Fiach O'Loughlin will be playing with thomond and while Noel O'Meara will be involved in coaching the Thomond 1st team
http://limerickrugby.ie/news-2334/Mi...ond-head-coach

Milkinit_large

roycon wrote: »

Terenue have borught in a 7 from Young Munster supposedly and the news is now that mark Flannagan has moved to Marys

James O'Neill

ormond lad

Munster Senior Cup 12/13
Round 1 - Week Ending 15th September
A. Midleton v Shannon
B. Highfield v Old Crescent
C. Young Munster v U.C.C.
D. Cork Constitution v Dolphin
E. Sunday's Well v Clonakilty
F. Garryowen v Thomond
G. Nenagh Ormond v U.L. Bohemian
H. Bruff v Cashel
Quarter Finals - Week Ending 22nd September
I. E v G
J. A v C
K. D v F
L. H v B
Semi Finals - Week Ending 13th October
M. I v J
N. K v L
Final - 24th November
O. M v N
http://www.munsterrugby.ie/domestic/news/10618.php

shaungil

roycon wrote: »

think mark flannagan is staying with ucd along with alan o'connor whos playing for ire u20s at the moment in the second row. could be neilus keogh from lansdowne or eoin sheriff or someone like that. or even ciaran ruddock.

I believe alan O'connor has gone to the Ulster academy so I presume he'll be moving to an Ulster club.

roycon

so i hear and mark flannagan has gone to clontarf in the end. hugh hogan has taken over the coaching at st.marys i believe and stepped down as a player. kevin croke has moved from ucd to st.marys

bamboozle

roycon wrote: »

so i hear and mark flannagan has gone to clontarf in the end. hugh hogan has taken over the coaching at st.marys i believe and stepped down as a player. kevin croke has moved from ucd to st.marys

i'd say UCD will be hoping for Gilsenan and Coughlan to step into the first team this coming season.

Hogan would be a big loss for Marys, great player at AIL level.

roycon

is ciaran ruddock just playing ail next season for marys does anyone know. he was playing in that 7s tournament last week i think

Beery Eyed

I’m interested to hear from people who follow each club, which current players at your club do you feel are underrated/overlooked in the AIL and perhaps deserve a shot at provincial rugby?

Over the last couple of seasons Leo Auva’a was given a contract offer on the back of his AIL performances and now Barry O’Mahony has been given a contract at Munster. Others have gone to Connacht, with mixed levels of success, and a number have gone to the UK, where some have gained a strong reputation for their performances – Tom Hayes is probably the prime example of a player being overlooked who then went on to great acclaim in England.

However, I do think that there are many other players that aren’t rated because the league is simply too far below the standard of provincial rugby. By this I mean that it is often difficult to get recognised when playing at a level that people can easily dismiss, even for very good players. Even when a player performs consistently well at AIL level it is all too easy to dismiss those performances because ‘the opposition isn’t a great standard’, etc. You can only play what’s in front of you though and I really think that certain players would thrive in a professional setup with better players around them.

In recent years I thought that Killian Lett has been excellent for Clontarf, along with O’Mahony and a number of others, often outshining players with provincial contracts. St Mary’s also had some really impressive players last year on their run to winning the league, and during the season before that I remember being more impressed by a number of other Belvo players, such as Mongan & Risden among others, than Auva’a who went on to deservedly get a contract.

Throughout the league there are some really high quality players and I’m interested to see who else people rate, from those people that see them in action regularly.

ormond lad

senior league fixtures in Ulster are now available.

Anyone know when the AIL fixtures are announced?

bamboozle

Beery Eyed wrote: »

I’m interested to hear from people who follow each club, which current players at your club do you feel are underrated/overlooked in the AIL and perhaps deserve a shot at provincial rugby?

Over the last couple of seasons Leo Auva’a was given a contract offer on the back of his AIL performances and now Barry O’Mahony has been given a contract at Munster. Others have gone to Connacht, with mixed levels of success, and a number have gone to the UK, where some have gained a strong reputation for their performances – Tom Hayes is probably the prime example of a player being overlooked who then went on to great acclaim in England.

However, I do think that there are many other players that aren’t rated because the league is simply too far below the standard of provincial rugby. By this I mean that it is often difficult to get recognised when playing at a level that people can easily dismiss, even for very good players. Even when a player performs consistently well at AIL level it is all too easy to dismiss those performances because ‘the opposition isn’t a great standard’, etc. You can only play what’s in front of you though and I really think that certain players would thrive in a professional setup with better players around them.

In recent years I thought that Killian Lett has been excellent for Clontarf, along with O’Mahony and a number of others, often outshining players with provincial contracts. St Mary’s also had some really impressive players last year on their run to winning the league, and during the season before that I remember being more impressed by a number of other Belvo players, such as Mongan & Risden among others, than Auva’a who went on to deservedly get a contract.

Throughout the league there are some really high quality players and I’m interested to see who else people rate, from those people that see them in action regularly.

my club is Clontarf. Was great to see Barry O'Mahoney's form rewarded with a contract but i actually think Killian Lett has been the standout AIL player for the last few seasons, there are very few players with power like his and he's a good footballer. Simon Crawford is easily good enough to play at a higher level also and Ben Barclay has come on big time at prop, really good player with great hands and ball carrying.

Outside of Clontarf, players who have always stood out at AIL level are Condon of Dolphin - got munster contract finally - dolphin's scrum is good for at least 1 penalty try whenever i see them play. Danny Riordan at Old Belvedere is a class act. Darragh Fitzpatrick at Rock (signed for tarf over summer) is an excellent player who i'm looking forward to seeing playing behind a strong clontarf pack.

Matt Healy at lansdowne has been training with Connacht and is a quality player, Sweeney brothers at Marys are fantastic players.

of the fringe provincial players in the AIL last season i thought Corey Hircock look excellent and has the dancing feet at 13 that munster are crying out for. Con's scrum half hurley is a great player.

Plenty of good quality players in the AIL, hope in 2013 the top 4 play-off is reintroduced for at least division 1A and more friday night games are played. This coming season i'd expect to see a lot of the irish u20 players getting AIL game time under their belts. The likes of Conan, Furlong, Beirne, Scanell, Rael will benefit big time from this exposure.

Beery Eyed

bamboozle wrote: »

my club is Clontarf. Was great to see Barry O'Mahoney's form rewarded with a contract but i actually think Killian Lett has been the standout AIL player for the last few seasons, there are very few players with power like his and he's a good footballer. Simon Crawford is easily good enough to play at a higher level also and Ben Barclay has come on big time at prop, really good player with great hands and ball carrying.

Outside of Clontarf, players who have always stood out at AIL level are Condon of Dolphin - got munster contract finally - dolphin's scrum is good for at least 1 penalty try whenever i see them play. Danny Riordan at Old Belvedere is a class act. Darragh Fitzpatrick at Rock (signed for tarf over summer) is an excellent player who i'm looking forward to seeing playing behind a strong clontarf pack.

Matt Healy at lansdowne has been training with Connacht and is a quality player, Sweeney brothers at Marys are fantastic players.

of the fringe provincial players in the AIL last season i thought Corey Hircock look excellent and has the dancing feet at 13 that munster are crying out for. Con's scrum half hurley is a great player.

Plenty of good quality players in the AIL, hope in 2013 the top 4 play-off is reintroduced for at least division 1A and more friday night games are played. This coming season i'd expect to see a lot of the irish u20 players getting AIL game time under their belts. The likes of Conan, Furlong, Beirne, Scanell, Rael will benefit big time from this exposure.

I haven't seen much of Hircock yet but the others you mentioned are all certainly good players.

Glad to hear from someone at the club that Lett is also rated highly there. Any time I've seen him he's been excellent. Given Leinsters current lack of centers for the beginning of the season they could do a lot worse than having him train with the squad & come in as backup if needed. He's still only in his mid twenties I believe.

I'd agree that the U20 players should get some good gametime this year given the promise they showed, but sometimes younger guys (particularly young forwards) can find it hard to break through, given the style of rugby that's often played in the AIL. In the middle of the season, when conditions worsen, the abrasive, trench warfare style of rugby can suit older, grizzly forwards. Superior skill levels aren't always rewarded, and there's a lot on the line, so younger guys are sometimes overlooked, which is disappointing.

I'd still like to see another tier between AIL & provincial to help the top AIL guys close the gap though. Even if it was just a short, end of season competition where they could showcase their skills & push for a provincial contract the following season. Perhaps an interpro tournament with teams made up of the top AIL players. Would only be 3 extra games & could be run when the internationals are away on tour, meaning the provincial coaches could get involved as well.

ormond lad

Beery Eyed wrote: »

I'd still like to see another tier between AIL & provincial to help the top AIL guys close the gap though. Even if it was just a short, end of season competition where they could showcase their skills & push for a provincial contract the following season. Perhaps an interpro tournament with teams made up of the top AIL players. Would only be 3 extra games & could be run when the internationals are away on tour, meaning the provincial coaches could get involved as well.

The B&I cup is the tier between pro12 provincial level and the AIL. Top AIL players have got gametime in that alongside contracted players.
That is much better than an interpro AIL series

Beery Eyed

ormond lad wrote: »

The B&I cup is the tier between pro12 provincial level and the AIL. Top AIL players have got gametime in that alongside contracted players.
That is much better than an interpro AIL series

B&I is good but not ideal in my opinion. Standard of games varies a lot depending on the opposition involved. Hopefully it will improve as it develops. It's still a very young tournament.

thomond2006

Has B&I Cup been a good addition in terms of developing players? On paper it seems to be, a lot of Munster players have come through the B&I to Rabo/Heineken plus an AIL guy like Barry O'Mahony was getting B&I gametime for a few seasons with Munster before he got his provincial contract.

Beery Eyed

thomond2006 wrote: »

Has B&I Cup been a good addition in terms of developing players? On paper it seems to be, a lot of Munster players have come through the B&I to Rabo/Heineken plus an AIL guy like Barry O'Mahony was getting B&I gametime for a few seasons with Munster before he got his provincial contract.

I would say it has been good for development, yes. As I said previously, I think it has been good, but not ideal. The game time given to these guys is essential in helping them make the step up.

To be honest I think any tier that fills the void between provincial & AIL is welcome. I just think that there is now sufficient quality in the fringe players at the provinces and the top AIL players for the IRFU to run its own competition & better control player development.

ormond lad

Beery Eyed wrote: »

I would say it has been good for development, yes. As I said previously, I think it has been good, but not ideal. The game time given to these guys is essential in helping them make the step up.

To be honest I think any tier that fills the void between provincial & AIL is welcome. I just think that there is now sufficient quality in the fringe players at the provinces and the top AIL players for the IRFU to run its own competition & better control player development.

No need creating more games that just take away from the clubs games. Attendance at club games needs to improve to help clubs and the creation of another level between pro 12 and AIL would do the opposite. Id prefer more attention paid to the AIL through maybe changes in structure, better marketing/promotion from clubs

ormond lad

Fixtures have been made. presume theyll be online tomorrow?

bamboozle

ormond lad wrote: »

Fixtures have been made. presume theyll be online tomorrow?

on the IRFU site now, credit to the IFRU for having a lot of friday night games, they always draw a bigger crowd to the game and the bar afterwards.

ormond lad

bamboozle wrote: »

on the IRFU site now, credit to the IRFU for having a lot of friday night games, they always draw a bigger crowd to the game and the bar afterwards.

Heres the link to the fixtures
Yeah friday night games are a great draw. only issue is in div 1A theres 2 on in Limerick at the same day at the same which is silly as if they were on different nights the crowds would go to both
we had 1 last season and have another this season which is good

phog

The 6th Oct will be a great double header for Lansdowne/Shannon fans as it seems to be the minor game for Leinster V Munster in the Aviva.

Also,Cardiff are playing Munster on the same night as UL Bohs are hosting Garryowen in Thomond park under lights, could the IRFU have tried for another Friday night for this game?

ormond lad

All fixtures for provincial leagues/cups that start the seasons
http://www.knockon.ie/2012/08/03/pre-season-rundown-for-ail-clubs/

ormond lad

Anyone know of any more pre season friendlies?
St Marys are playing Cashel in Cashel saturday week. Nenagh play Tullamore and Shannon over the next couple of weeks

CatFromHue

Do you play for Nenagh Ormond or in the AIL Ormond lad? You always have your finger on the pulse of club rugby.

ormond lad

CatFromHue wrote: »

Do you play for Nenagh Ormond or in the AIL Ormond lad? You always have your finger on the pulse of club rugby.

Nenagh yes, AIL no
Have to keep an eye on underage(youths and schools) and clubs rugby as without them the pro game has no base and the clubs game is where the pros of the future get their start in their rugby career

CatFromHue

Cool cool.

What's your take on the Academys and players not being allowed to line out for AIL teams if there's more than one Academy player already in the team?

CIARAN_BOYLE

CatFromHue wrote: »

Cool cool.

What's your take on the Academys and players not being allowed to line out for AIL teams if there's more than one Academy player already in the team?

Is that a rule, I thought it was only senior players

ormond lad

CatFromHue wrote: »

Cool cool.

What's your take on the Academys and players not being allowed to line out for AIL teams if there's more than one Academy player already in the team?

Think academy players should be able to play unrestricted in divisions 1A & 1B but in division 2A & 2B there should be some form of restriction on academy players.

CatFromHue

Oh right, maybe it is.

bamboozle

the rule is (and i stand corrected!) that only two fully contracted players can be in an AIL squad of 20, and only one of those can be a forward. Furthermore, NIQ players are not allowed play in the AIL. Development and Academy players can play unrestricted.

Of course Cork Con seemed to skirt this rule last season by claiming Zebo was only a development contracted player...

My club Clontarf this coming season will have Furlong, Sherlock, Reid, O'Shea from the leinster academy and i'd expect them to be in the AIL squad most weeks.

Hopefully for the following season (2013/2014) the AIL format will revert to a top 4 play-off and more contracted players will be allowed get game time in the AIL, if used correctly it could be pretty effective in getting younger players good experience of playing in the trenches while keeping fringe fully contracted players match fit.

First good step from IRFU is announcing lots more friday night games for this coming season, they usually attract larger crowds to the game and into the clubhouse bars afterwards.

Gracelessly Tom

bamboozle wrote: »

Hopefully for the following season (2013/2014) the AIL format will revert to a top 4 play-off and more contracted players will be allowed get game time in the AIL, if used correctly it could be pretty effective in getting younger players good experience of playing in the trenches while keeping fringe fully contracted players match fit.

First good step from IRFU is announcing lots more friday night games for this coming season, they usually attract larger crowds to the game and into the clubhouse bars afterwards.

I agree with you on the four team playoff, I still think it's the best way of running the league, even as a Marys member I still wanted the playoff's last season. Why not go back to the way it was in the late 90's, early 2000's when top of the table after the regular season got a certain prize fund, 2nd, 3rd and 4th got some as well. Then have a smaller prize fund for the winner and 2nd in the playoffs. Winner of the play off is the champ though.

The flipside to the friday night games is that the clubs lose out on pre match lunches which can be a decent earner.

phog

I think the IRFU have to do a lot of work in setting the fixtures, on some Friday nights in Limerick there are two games, Garryowen have 4 Friday night games but 2 of them clash with other AIL games in the city, one of them is the local derby between Shannon and YM - guess which game the neutral supporter will head to.

For the UL Bohs/Garryowen clash they have it the same evening as Munster are away to Cardiff, surely they could have found a weekend where Munster would have had a Saturday or Sunday game.

Also, they have teams away from home in 2 consecutive game, this must have an effect in their cash flow.

bamboozle

phog wrote: »

I think the IRFU have to do a lot of work in setting the fixtures, on some Friday nights in Limerick there are two games, Garryowen have 4 Friday night games but 2 of them clash with other AIL games in the city, one of them is the local derby between Shannon and YM - guess which game the neutral supporter will head to.

For the UL Bohs/Garryowen clash they have it the same evening as Munster are away to Cardiff, surely they could have found a weekend where Munster would have had a Saturday or Sunday game.

Also, they have teams away from home in 2 consecutive game, this must have an effect in their cash flow.

i noticed this also, wonder if it has something to do with the likes of lansdowne, Dolphin, Shannon & UL Bohs maybe not having access to Aviva, Musgrave & Thomand on certain weekends.