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Mens Rights Thread
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Yup, twice as many men dying from covid as women....
So frankly they can feel bad about it all they like, it's a medical fact, that it's twice as bad for men's health.... so really it's far more of a 'man's issue', if you choose to see the world in terms of male & female!?
(Which is another annoying trait of the feminist movement tbh)
oh but you see, for the men who have sadly passed away its the women they leave behind that are the worst affected.
Reminds me of this gem:
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Can anyone refute this or does it have some truth? I've heard from feminists on Reddit that the reason that men commit more acts of sexual assault is not just biological but partly do with how we raise boys. They say boys are raised to be "sexually entitled" to women and women are raised to keep their sexuality private.
Was anyone man here told this growing up or is it completely bull****?0 -
Perhaps not answering your question directly, but I've heard previously criticism of "male entitlement" without discussion of "female entitlement".
I think a more neutral interpretation is that there are certainly some things on average that drive heterosexual men more than heterosexual women, but similarly, which isn't often mentioned, there are also things that drive heterosexual women more than heterosexual men. So for example, one could say that heterosexual women feel more entitled to a not-cheap wedding than heterosexual men on average; another way of phrasing it would simply be that heterosexual women have a stronger desire for a not-cheap wedding than heterosexual men on average.
If one only looked at the desire to have a not-cheap wedding, one might come to the conclusion that women feel more entitled than men. But again, that wouldn't be the full picture.
ETA: Some might say the situations aren't comparable as nobody is harmed by a not-cheap wedding; however, such weddings would have taken hundreds of hours of work (if not over 1000 hours in some cases) to pay for and some people might prefer that the fruits of their labour were used in another way, or alternatively save the money and work less in the future with more free time.0 -
mr_fegelien wrote: »Can anyone refute this or does it have some truth? I've heard from feminists on Reddit that the reason that men commit more acts of sexual assault is not just biological but partly do with how we raise boys. They say boys are raised to be "sexually entitled" to women and women are raised to keep their sexuality private.
Was anyone man here told this growing up or is it completely bull****?
The problem is that men shouldn't need to disprove anything... since it hasn't been proven that such factors cause that behavior.
Feminists like to throw around inconclusive and rather limited research as fact... Which is why research for psychological/sociological papers is heavily populated by feminists... There was a massive shift in the population of psychologists in the 90s/00s, after the domination of US academia with feminist ideologies. All those fresh graduates heading into psychology/sociology intent in furthering the belief that men are the enemy. And there was a flood of papers relating to gender, roles, personality, etc... many of which supported feminist ideology or setting the foundation for later ideas...
God forbid, that anyone might suggest that parenting might be a serious factor, when women do the majority of direct parenting. It's the double standards at play. Feminists complain that women do most housework and parenting, while the man works... but there's no responsibility suggested for how males turn out, when it is the mother that has raised the child.
It's one of the things I've always found interesting about sexism. Men held women down, preventing them from having equal rights, until women fought to achieve equality... but who was teaching all those boys (who would turn into men) to resist changing the status quo? Yup. The patriarchy. Other men. Not the women who had such a strong influence over their personal growth and development.
Smoke and mirrors. Passing responsibility on to males in entirety... because women can only be victims, and therefore not responsible for what happens... which leaves men and male culture responsible. Awfully convenient that. :rolleyes:
The really funny thing is that many of the social structures that were traditionally in place... like being a gentleman, were ways to cut down on abusive behavior by men. That was male culture at work... but feminists found that behavior to be demeaning, or insulting. Just as there are many other behavioral customs that males engaged in to protect women in society, but feminists pushed for them to be removed. Women didn't need our protection.... but it turns out that the absence of those customs hasn't empowered women, because feminists have encouraged women to behave as victims. They're not responsible for being in a dangerous area at night. They're not responsible for how they interact with strangers. Victim blaming is always wrong... And any suggestion of any responsibility for a womans choices, is victim blaming.
Rather than encourage women to take control of their lives, and also take responsibility for their safety, feminists have simply shifted everything over to men. It's a rather impressive shift TBH. Utterly senseless and destructive to society and women... but that's what happens when feminism goes beyond equality, and embraces imbalance.0 -
mr_fegelien wrote: »Can anyone refute this or does it have some truth? I've heard from feminists on Reddit that the reason that men commit more acts of sexual assault is not just biological but partly do with how we raise boys. They say boys are raised to be "sexually entitled" to women and women are raised to keep their sexuality private.
I'd say there is truth to the statement that in some countries men are raised to be sexually entitled to women and we see horror stories about large-scale gang rapes in public places. The snag for feminists on reddit is that those countries are also populated by non-white, non-western, non-christian/atheist men.
Remember, its me and my mates in Ireland who share pictures of tits in our private whatsapp group that are the real problem. :rolleyes:0 -
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mr_fegelien wrote: »Can anyone refute this or does it have some truth?
I assume you are referring to the quote from Hilary Clinton;
"Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands their fathers and their sons in combat"
The second sentence is a lie by omission. Men also lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat.
The first sentence is incorrect, I can explain with a thought experiment.
Would you prefer to be an amputee, or be dead?
Would you prefer to have cancer, or be dead?
Would you prefer to be in prison, or be dead?
Would you prefer to be at home grieving, in a warm house, with running water, with a bed to sleep on and with food to eat; or be dead?
Death is the least favourable outcome in almost every situation.
Remember men were generally forced to go to war, the white feather used as a shaming tool by feminists to enlist 'cowards'.
I have one real question for you; why did the feminists give out the feathers and not go to war themselves?0 -
mr_fegelien wrote: »Can anyone refute this or does it have some truth? I've heard from feminists on Reddit that the reason that men commit more acts of sexual assault is not just biological but partly do with how we raise boys. They say boys are raised to be "sexually entitled" to women and women are raised to keep their sexuality private.
Was anyone man here told this growing up or is it completely bull****?
This was brought up in conversation during a lecture while I was at college. A female student brought up the point that men do all the raping, most crimes are commited by men etc etc etc
The lecturer response was, "Well who is raising these men?". She had no reply.0 -
This was brought up in conversation during a lecture while I was at college. A female student brought up the point that men do all the raping, most crimes are commited by men etc etc etc
The lecturer response was, "Well who is raising these men?". She had no reply.
Yeah, but there's other double standards at play. Consider the statistics on violence or abuse towards children. Or female on female violence. Women play a much greater role in the stats than is thought of within society.
The statistics are there but the importance is downplayed to focus on the male roles. Just as the emotional abuse is downplayed in spite of it often having longer effect on the victims than the physical (It's often the emotional or psychological damage that comes from the physical attack that's more important)..
God forbid that someone might draw a connection between the emotional abuse that women might dish out as a factor for those males who engage in sexual assault/abuse.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »
God forbid that someone might draw a connection between the emotional abuse that women might dish out as a factor for those males who engage in sexual assault/abuse.
I had the face eaten off me for suggesting something along those lines before. (more in relation to men on the receiving end of abuse in relationships)
Women use psychological and emotional abuse far more than men (generally speaking) and men would use physical abuse more (generally speaking --- although I question that slightly) and while there are men out there that will hit out at a woman for no reason there are men who are so tormented by the emotional and psychological abuse that they eventually lose it and lash out. And now the woman is the victim, and don't dare ask questions!
That is not to say it is right to hit your partner but I don't believe that every person who is hit in a relationship is just sitting there looking pretty or handsome.
The Bostonian comedian Bill Burr has a great skit on this: (NSFW)
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There’s a double standard because if a woman is abusing a man in some way, the questions will often start about what he might have done to cause the situation.0
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I had the face eaten off me for suggesting something along those lines before. (more in relation to men on the receiving end of abuse in relationships)
Well, the part I find interesting is that we've all seen women or girlfriends manipulate events or their boyfriends into situations of conflict. Ever see a woman flirt with strangers in a bar, while ignoring her boyfriend, stoking his jealousy? Or in those rarest of moments when a woman might lie to her boyfriend about something that happened with one of his friends? :rolleyes:
There is such pressure to ignore the manipulative nature that many women engage in. We've all dated women before who would try to manipulate us into buying gifts, or try pushing our buttons to create a situation.... Emotional blackmail is far more likely to come from a woman than a man... (I hate using the word interesting so much, but it's worth considering very feminine/camp gay men, who will also often behave very similar to women in this respect)0 -
Deleted User wrote: »God forbid that someone might draw a connection between the emotional abuse that women might dish out as a factor for those males who engage in sexual assault/abuse.
I listened to a video recently where a lady(Deborah Powney) does precisely that in her work.
She gets a horrendous amount of abuse apparently. Much worse to be a non-feminist female to the feminists.
Thought I'd share, pretty long winded, but interesting none the less.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-DbJAoK1Q
(Skip to about 27mins 39seconds)0 -
I listened to a video recently where a lady(Deborah Powney) does precisely that in her work.
She gets a horrendous amount of abuse apparently. Much worse to be a non-feminist female to the feminists.
Thought I'd share, pretty long winded, but interesting none the less.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-DbJAoK1Q
(Skip to about 27mins 39seconds)
Of course she gets abuse...the Domestic Violence Industry employs feminists...it's their cash cow!!!!
Interesting video, she uses the word hate a bit referring to the feminist movement...interesting!0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Well, the part I find interesting is that we've all seen women or girlfriends manipulate events or their boyfriends into situations of conflict. Ever see a woman flirt with strangers in a bar, while ignoring her boyfriend, stoking his jealousy? Or in those rarest of moments when a woman might lie to her boyfriend about something that happened with one of his friends? :rolleyes:
There is such pressure to ignore the manipulative nature that many women engage in. We've all dated women before who would try to manipulate us into buying gifts, or try pushing our buttons to create a situation.... Emotional blackmail is far more likely to come from a woman than a man... (I hate using the word interesting so much, but it's worth considering very feminine/camp gay men, who will also often behave very similar to women in this respect)
Precisely - many years ago, I had a girlfriend who kept trying to manipulate me into...well, proposing. I feckin' kid you not. It's not like it's a monumental decision that can have dire consequences on the lives of AT LEAST two people.
The irony of it all is that men are usually accused of being "childish" - be it for liking loud and fast cars, motorbikes, videogames or whatever.
Yet, take all the behaviours above. Mix it with the idea that such a thing as "patriarchy" exists, with men all around the world patting one another on the shoulder for "preventing women from doing things". Well...the "profile" that emerges is that of...an elementary school age girl.I listened to a video recently where a lady(Deborah Powney) does precisely that in her work.
She gets a horrendous amount of abuse apparently. Much worse to be a non-feminist female to the feminists.
Thought I'd share, pretty long winded, but interesting none the less.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-DbJAoK1Q
(Skip to about 27mins 39seconds)
Surprise, surprise. Her interview is extremely on point, especially when she mentions how the approach to the problem is CREATING the idea that whatever happens to a woman, it's BECAUSE she is a woman. Pretty much what I've also been saying for a while - "feminists" are usually the flag bearers of the act of essentially diminishing women to nothing more than weak, fragile, unaccountable designated victims with no willpower whatsoever.I... And now the woman is the victim, and don't dare ask questions!
That is not to say it is right to hit your partner but I don't believe that every person who is hit in a relationship is just sitting there looking pretty or handsome.
The Bostonian comedian Bill Burr has a great skit on this: (NSFW)
Yeah...that thing about the "headset fight"; I don't know if it was real, and TBH doesn't matter because these things happen pretty much all the time. Ask 10 heterosexual men, the majority of them will have experienced something along the same lines. Basically, it's mostly our own fault - dump her ass on the spot and move on.0 -
H3llR4iser wrote: »- "feminists" are usually the flag bearers of the act of essentially diminishing women to nothing more than weak, fragile, unaccountable designated victims with no willpower whatsoever.
Yea, I always thought that feminists send out a very mixed signal to women. On one hand they are claiming they are strong, independent and capable of great things (rightly so) but on the other hand they make women out to be pathetic, weak, perpetual victims totally incapable of being accountable for their own actions.0 -
Yea, I always thought that feminists send out a very mixed signal to women. On one hand they are claiming they are strong, independent and capable of great things (rightly so) but on the other hand they make women out to be pathetic, weak, perpetual victims totally incapable of being accountable for their own actions.
It's so that they can promote the victories claimed by feminism (strong, successful, healthy, happy, etc) while also gaining funding or support for whatever "issue" they want improved (physical abuse, educational support, employment quotas, etc).
You'll see it if you want women's rights platforms especially the UN or similar entities, where they'll spend a few minutes talking about everything that women have achieved, how they've revealed their potential (they always had these abilities but men held them back), and then switch to how women/girls are marginalised, punished, persecuted, etc in society, which is why they need bla bla bla.
Think of the employment quotas. Women are equally as good as men in roles, and often better, but they're disadvantaged by the existing system, and therefore the system needs to be sidestepped (quotas). It doesn't matter that during the last two decades HR and government initiatives, have already redesigned the system to help women in the workplace.. competition for positions puts women at a disadvantage, just as needing to negotiate for better salaries does.0 -
It is why it is an infantile movement, a shallow ideology with way too much influence.
Any woman who is feeling the sugar high of empowerment will some day have to back down to earth....it's like hysteria, it is not sustainable at a personal level.
If you want to see what a s##t show these feminists are capable of, look at the state of the third level institutes in the US!!!
Feminists destroy, they cannot create!0 -
I’ve heard the word “damseling” be used to describe the latter i.e. making women out to be damsels in distress who need to be saved by others.Yea, I always thought that feminists send out a very mixed signal to women. On one hand they are claiming they are strong, independent and capable of great things (rightly so) but on the other hand they make women out to be pathetic, weak, perpetual victims totally incapable of being accountable for their own actions.0 -
Silentcorner wrote: »It is why it is an infantile movement, a shallow ideology with way too much influence.
There are layers to feminism... can we really identify where feminism ends, and women's rights or equality begins? We might, but the average joe/jane won't... The problem is that feminism has it's hooks inserted in many areas of society, and some of it is rather subtle.Any woman who is feeling the sugar high of empowerment will some day have to back down to earth....it's like hysteria, it is not sustainable at a personal level.
we'd have to get rid of twitter and similar platforms... like tiktok. It's sustainable for the next decade or two... It'll (de)evolve into something else... and these women will find other ways to get attention, sell books, etc.
It's not going to disappear any time soon. People are getting exasperated at the more aggressive elements.. but they'll leave the moderates, and the internet presence mostly alone to do what they wish.If you want to see what a s##t show these feminists are capable of, look at the state of the third level institutes in the US!!!
Feminists destroy, they cannot create!
Hardline feminists, yes. However, you can find moderate feminists who aren't vocal about what they're doing. They'll slowly change their environment, without making waves. You can find feminists in most HR departments... and HR has gone from a minor department to the JAWS of any medium/large sized company... that is success... and you can find feminists in many levels of business or other industries, and doing very well for themselves.
It's better not to underestimate what they're capable of.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »There are layers to feminism... can we really identify where feminism ends, and women's rights or equality begins? We might, but the average joe/jane won't... The problem is that feminism has it's hooks inserted in many areas of society, and some of it is rather subtle.
we'd have to get rid of twitter and similar platforms... like tiktok. It's sustainable for the next decade or two... It'll (de)evolve into something else... and these women will find other ways to get attention, sell books, etc.
It's not going to disappear any time soon. People are getting exasperated at the more aggressive elements.. but they'll leave the moderates, and the internet presence mostly alone to do what they wish.
Hardline feminists, yes. However, you can find moderate feminists who aren't vocal about what they're doing. They'll slowly change their environment, without making waves. You can find feminists in most HR departments... and HR has gone from a minor department to the JAWS of any medium/large sized company... that is success... and you can find feminists in many levels of business or other industries, and doing very well for themselves.
It's better not to underestimate what they're capable of.
I think they have had remarkable success for such a shallow ideology, the Scientologists would be delighted with that kind of success.
It's one thing contaminating Academia and NGOs like the UN, EU and such like, the free market is one step too far, which is why I have said they have overplayed their hand.
I think they have been very subtle and persuasive about how they present the Gender Pay Gap to the ordinary person without mentioning the amount of hours men work.
I think it is disgusting how they have presented the issue of Domestic Violence.
It is also very clever how they are presenting the need for equal representation in democracies knowing they (as in Women's Councils etc) have way more influence than ordinary men.
This pandemic has been used as well, which is why you'll see articles across mainsteam media reinforcing that narrative in different versions, but more and more people are losing faith in what they read/consume...that percentage of people is growing more and more with each cycle of hysteria.
I also think that this wave has been helped by social media in engaging with women much the same as the outrage/sjw culture has been.
The problem it has, is that what it offers is very shallow, at least Catholicism offered self discipline, personal responsibility etc....Feminism is the opposite.
And look around, where this ideology meets the free market, or voters, it is being rejected...even Google (who sacked James Damore) are reportedly rowing back on their Diversity programs...this pandemic will be a pivotal point in where corporations decide to take this culture, at the very least they will split...
The very same technology that hooked a load of women is also the technology that has turned many against the movement...every one is tired of this culture and it is only in it's infancy in many ways, humans often come up with stupid ideas and reject them as they go mainstream just as quick.
I think we are seeing a much broader swing back to the centre across the developed world, we are in the hysterical phase of that process.
Remember in the US back in the 80s and 90s when there was that mania led by the religious bodies about Satanic Cults infiltrating music...we are in the 2020 version of that!!!
Of course, that is just my observation...what the ideology offers or promises is far less than what it delivers.
In the meantime, just avoid Feminists at all costs in daily life, they are miserable!0 -
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Silentcorner wrote: »I think they have had remarkable success for such a shallow ideology, the Scientologists would be delighted with that kind of success.
Except that it's not just one ideology. People look at feminism and lump everything in together, but there are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of different groups, all of which contribute to the success of feminism in society.It's one thing contaminating Academia and NGOs like the UN, EU and such like, the free market is one step too far, which is why I have said they have overplayed their hand.
Think about what you just said for a second. The US academia was once a hub of traditional thinking with strong ties to the political elite. Within less than 20 years, feminists managed to establish themselves, and essentially rewrite the rules for everything from educational program management to campus rules. Same with the UN, or any of the political organisations which were bastions of male power, and staunch supporters of the status quo. Within thirty years (yes,, it took longer, but they managed it), they had flipped the focus away from the status quo, to being primarily about promoting support for women in western nations...
As for the free market... women still consist of the largest consumer market. By far. It is womens needs and desires that make or break advertising and publications throughout the western world, and while, there has been some backlash, women still have enormous influence over consumer spending. Which translates into feminists having enormous influence. Again, feminism is not just the hardline scary women with pink hair. Feminists are also the 36 year old professional with an expense account, with influence in many different industries.The problem it has, is that what it offers is very shallow, at least Catholicism offered self discipline, personal responsibility etc....Feminism is the opposite.
I can't agree. Feminism has shown it capable of rebranding itself depending on the reactions of society. The internet is a platform that can be dismissed, because most people already associate it with the crazies. It has some bearing because we're all on it, but the effects of feminism can be felt beyond the internet... and they (feminists) can simply point to far more reasonable people as being their spokespeople. Feminism will simply withdraw from the crazies, and embrace a more reasonable approach. The crazies have served their purpose, and can now be relegated to the shadows.And look around, where this ideology meets the free market, or voters, it is being rejected...even Google (who sacked James Damore) are reportedly rowing back on their Diversity programs...this pandemic will be a pivotal point in where corporations decide to take this culture, at the very least they will split...
Sure, but I've heard of other movements at the corporate level about diversity, and preferential treatment for women in management positions. The idea has been established. It's there and it's not going to disappear. It won't be marketed or presented to the same level it has so far. They reached the wall regarding what people would accept... but let's face it, people have been accepting a lot over the last decade. If feminism simply takes two steps back, they're still in a very strong position.
Politics... I dunno. I don't follow whats going on.The very same technology that hooked a load of women is also the technology that has turned many against the movement...every one is tired of this culture and it is only in it's infancy in many ways, humans often come up with stupid ideas and reject them as they go mainstream just as quick.
Everyone isn't tired of it though. They're tired of the crazies, but they're not tired of the shallow arguments. Australia alone is proof of that where feminist nutjob ideas are gaining a lot of traction. Same in the US. Ireland, and Europe, thankfully, have sidestepped most of it, but I wouldn't be celebrating quite yet. There's still a lot of momentum out there for feminist driven issues, and I honestly, can't see most women wanting to embrace equality since it would mean giving up a lot of protections/supports within society.. not to mention, taking responsibility for their lives.I think we are seeing a much broader swing back to the centre across the developed world, we are in the hysterical phase of that process.
Maybe.. I don't think so, TBH. It's still very much of the Left/Right debate. People might roll their eyes, but I've noticed that people are very slow to actually support real change. They're happy to be led to the slaughterhouse.Of course, that is just my observation...what the ideology offers or promises is far less than what it delivers.
I feel that way about all ideologies TBH. The modern world is a very shallow and superficial place. The internet saw to that.In the meantime, just avoid Feminists at all costs in daily life, they are miserable!
Ahh well, I wish I could but I meet a lot of them in universities as students or as colleagues. It's fine though. I'm a glutton for punishment and I do love to argue.
Although, I would point something out. My mother is a feminist. She's also one of the most intelligent woman I have ever known... Feminism is more than the oddballs on the Internet. She's a feminist but appreciates equality. It's not as rare as you might think. Feminism is more than a single ideology.0 -
Seeing as this thread has come up to the front page again, I wonder if anyone who's interested in men's right would tell me whether they have a position on transgender issues. Someone did mention it near the start of the thread but it was just an aside, more
I'm wondering as it seems to be considered obligatory for feminists to have a clear opinion (whether for or against) trans issues, and it's almost become a war in who will define feminism, but I don't see much evidence of any similar level of interest among men's rights groups.0 -
Seeing as this thread has come up to the front page again, I wonder if anyone who's interested in men's right would tell me whether they have a position on transgender issues. Someone did mention it near the start of the thread but it was just an aside, more
I'm wondering as it seems to be considered obligatory for feminists to have a clear opinion (whether for or against) trans issues, and it's almost become a war in who will define feminism, but I don't see much evidence of any similar level of interest among men's rights groups.
I mightn't be correct in this, but when it comes to transgender issues or rights, men don't have too much to lose, most male only spaces no longer exist, from golf clubs to business networks, to social clubs etc...and men are the poorer relation when it comes to privileges like health care, government programs, academia...etc etc..also, there is no real physical threat to men.
Women on the other hand have much more to lose...not just because of the list of privileges they enjoy but also regarding competitive female sport.
I can completely understand the concern women have for what is happening, not because I believe that trans women are all twisted individuals who are a threat to women FAR from it, but we all know that there is a specimen of a man who is a real threat to women who is likely to take advantage of the access to female only spaces and will do anything they can to enter those areas....there is no female equivalent....I am however willing to be wrong on any opinion expressed as it is all relatively new to most of us.0 -
Seeing as this thread has come up to the front page again, I wonder if anyone who's interested in men's right would tell me whether they have a position on transgender issues. Someone did mention it near the start of the thread but it was just an aside, more
I'm wondering as it seems to be considered obligatory for feminists to have a clear opinion (whether for or against) trans issues, and it's almost become a war in who will define feminism, but I don't see much evidence of any similar level of interest among men's rights groups.
Personally, I don't. It doesn't affect me. I know a few transgendered women (in Asia), but from conversations, they're not interested in the agenda being pushed. They're happy to be in the background. Since they've had good surgeries, and put real effort into their transformation, it's hard to tell that they're not natural born females. (It's actually how I met two of them. I picked them up, thinking they were women, and got the "unwelcome" surprise. However, we chatted, and stayed friends). Don't really know why transgendered people are so different in the West, than they are in Asia. Most times it's hard to tell in Asia.. but over here, most times you know pretty quickly.
I have little patience with the general transgender agenda, because it seems to be about people who want attention. They want to announce their situation to the world, and receive applause. Or wave the flag and get as much abuse as possible.
In the west, I don't have much interest in their cause, because it's very contrived.., I notice many of them are doing partial surgeries where they're seeking to be only part male/female, and it's obvious that they're not "natural".... but the expectation that they should be treated completely and without reservation, that they are.
In any case, I don't see it as a mens rights issue since most of them have chosen to be something other than men. How do you become a man or a woman, when you didn't grow up as one, experiencing all the pain/difficulty that comes with the particular gender? In any case, transgendered people will always be treated differently to men or women because they want to be treated differently. And...... no.. I'm not posting more about it on this thread. No interest in derailing one of the few good threads on Men's rights.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »How do you become a man or a woman, when you didn't grow up as one, experiencing all the pain/difficulty that comes with the particular gender?
Good point.
My two cents - trans people should, of course, be as welcome in society, and have the same rights, as everyone else.
I'm also happy for an individual to identify with the gender with which they feel comfortable, and to use the pronouns they want. Their lives, their business, live and let live, etc.
However - I do think women need their own spaces, like bathrooms, shelters and prisons. I can understand why growing numbers are becoming angry, upset and frustrated about what's happening.
Now, trans people need spaces too - but it can't just be women's ones. They need their own.
Men who have transitioned to women should also not be allowed compete in women's sports. This just seems obvious to me. It's unfair and uncompetitive on a basic, biological level.
Also, and probably most of all, I'm uncomfortable with gender-related concepts being introduced to teenagers. And this isn't sensationalism - it is already being integrated into UK school curriculums. Don't bet on it not coming here soon.
Now, gender dysphoria is a real (albeit rare) condition, and anyone suffering from it needs to have all the compassion and medical options they need.
But, for the vast majority of teens - this stuff will confuse the hell out of them (it confuses me, ffs!). And, worst case, will lead them to make life-altering decisions that they're not mature enough to make. Let kids be kids.0 -
I'm wondering as it seems to be considered obligatory for feminists to have a clear opinion (whether for or against) trans issues, and it's almost become a war in who will define feminism, but I don't see much evidence of any similar level of interest among men's rights groups.
It's an issue that much more affects women. Men don't seem to care if a transman uses their changing room etc..
How many transwomen(assigned male at birth) do you know of (perhaps celebrities) and how many transmen do you know of?
It seems no one cares if you want to become a man, it's only a big deal if you want to become a woman. I've seen many stories from transmen and women pretending to be men, they end up learning that the narrative taught to them by the feminists just doesn't stack up.
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It's an issue that much more affects women. Men don't seem to care if a transman uses their changing room etc..
How many transwomen(assigned male at birth) do you know of (perhaps celebrities) and how many transmen do you know of?
It seems no one cares if you want to become a man, it's only a big deal if you want to become a woman. I've seen many stories from transmen and women pretending to be men, they end up learning that the narrative taught to them by the feminists just doesn't stack up.
This is my question really - why should puberty-blocking hormone treatment for children be seen as mainly a women's issue? Surely a group that advocates for fathers to play a bigger role in their children's lives should front and centre here, to show that they actually have something important to contribute?0 -
This is my question really - why should puberty-blocking hormone treatment for children be seen as mainly a women's issue? Surely a group that advocates for fathers to play a bigger role in their children's lives should front and centre here, to show that they actually have something important to contribute?
I'd say the part in bold is part of the problem, really. They already have plenty that's important to contribute, especially when considering that children from single mothers have an increased tendency towards crime and mental/emotional issues.0 -
This is my question really - why should puberty-blocking hormone treatment for children be seen as mainly a women's issue? Surely a group that advocates for fathers to play a bigger role in their children's lives should front and centre here, to show that they actually have something important to contribute?
I can only speak for myself but I think the very idea of giving kids hormone blocking drugs is absolutey reprehensible, it amounts to abuse and perhaps torture. I haven't seen any MRAs express the opinion that they are in favour of puberty blocking drugs for kids.
It's strange that you would link "Puberty blocking hormone treatment for children" with "Trans rights". Do you think that should be included in the term 'trans-rights' because I don't.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »I'd say the part in bold is part of the problem, really. They already have plenty that's important to contribute, especially when considering that children from single mothers have an increased tendency towards crime and mental/emotional issues.
Sounds like you should be arguing to ban divorce then TBF. And it's not really relevant, unless you mean that father get to pick and choose which parts of children's lives they are involved in.
My question is why is the issue of children being given puberty blockers apparently seen as an important issue for women's groups, but not for fathers' groups? Surely it must be of equal importance to both?0
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rksKvZoUCPQ
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