Mens Rights Thread

tritium

This one is interesting given it a) seems to be a recurring issue and b) seems to have gotten so little coverage when compared to for example the chibok kidnappings of a few years ago

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-50053725

It’s hard to believe that the fact it’s men and boys involved isn’t connected to the media silence here

Reviews and Books Galore

The above reminds me of the focus on the Magdalene Laundries vs the factory schools.



Also, the Cyprus case is actually quite interesting as there is video evidence that it was consensual and the woman's statement was proven to be false based on digital data.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/14/rights-groups-urge-cyprus-to-drop-false-case-against-briton


What's very troubling is the amount of support that somebody who commited quite a horrific crime is getting for a very minor punishment. Especially as some of the participants might have been underage.

iptba

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

The above reminds me of the focus on the Magdalene Laundries vs the factory schools.



Also, the Cyprus case is actually quite interesting as there is video evidence that it was consensual and the woman's statement was proven to be false based on digital data.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/14/rights-groups-urge-cyprus-to-drop-false-case-against-briton


What's very troubling is the amount of support that somebody who commited quite a horrific crime is getting for a very minor punishment. Especially as some of the participants might have been underage.

Reminds me of this case, which was also in Cyprus, where an Irish woman falsely accused Irish men of raping her. She was convicted and got a four-month sentence but people lobbied for her release, and she was released early as I recall.

Rape claim woman in bid for jail pardon

Eire officials are trying to win a pardon for an Irish woman jailed in Cyprus after falsely claiming she had been raped.

Stephanos Stephanou, Eire's honorary counsul on the Mediterranean holiday island, is to make representations to the Cypriot attorney general on behalf of Dublin computer factory worker Annette Mangan, 22

She was jailed for four months on Friday after accusing three Irishmen, two of them soldiers on leave from United Nations peacekeeping duties in Lebanon, of raping her in an apartment in the resort of Ayia Napa.

She changed her story after being interviewed by detectives and said she had implicated the men because they allegedly took pictures of her in the nude.

Ms Mangan was on holiday in Cyprus with her sister Avril and two friends. They were all due to have flown home yesterday.

The Honorary Consul said he was confident a clemency appeal to Cyprus President Glafcos Clerides, via the attorney general, would be granted.

The move could be delayed until later this week, though, as both the President and the attorney are away in Geneva

Mr Stephanou said: ''There is no reason why the pardon should not be granted as I consider the sentence to be a little harsh.''

The consul added he had made arrangements to ensure Ms Mangan was as comfortable as possible and for her to be visited by her sister and their friends.

Sharp division of opinion on sentence in Cyprus rape case
Quote:

Sat, Aug 16, 1997

Annette Mangan sat in her prison cell in Nicosia Central Prison in Cyprus this week "confused and terrified", according to her sister. Back home, hours of air time were being devoted to the divisive question of whether or not the 22-year-old Dublin woman should be there at all.

Her accusation of rape against three young Irish soldiers and her subsequent retraction have been debated with a passion normally reserved for the build-up to abortion or divorce referendums. The four-month sentence she received when medical evidence contradicted her claim of rape has been criticised and justified in equal measures.

For the most part, female commentators are remaining cautious and adopting the "two sides to every story" approach. Anne O'Neill, a solicitor specialising in family law, has a firm view that the four-month sentence was "innappropriate".

"How has society been bettered by putting her in prison?" she asks.
Some might be inclined to believe there is more to the story than claims about lurid photographs taken in the aftermath of a drunken binge. But speaking on RTE radio this week, the father of one of the soldiers said police found nothing in film seized from the camera of the falsely accused men. Then there are others who just shake their heads at Mangan, who in their eyes has dragged the Defence Forces and the country "through the mud".

These two separate factions are split right down the middle. Olive Braiden, director of the Rape Crisis Centre, was "amazed" by the number of people who vilified Mangan while commenting on the case. "I found it incredible that ordinary people were calling radio stations criticising her [Mangan's] behaviour on the night in question. As far as I can see a lot of it is to do with their set views on how a woman should behave," she says.

As the controversy unfolded, Braiden was presented as taking Mangan's side in the incident, but she claims her comments were taken out of context. "I always stressed that a false accusation was a very serious matter, that the whole episode was very damaging for the men involved, and damaging in that it may discourage others from reporting genuine cases of rape.

"But I thought the publicity about it was disproportionate to the actual incident. There are men in this country who have pleaded guilty to rape and have not served one day in prison," she says. "Where is the media furore over that?

"If what has been reported is true," she adds, "I think four months in prison was very harsh."

Tommy Spooner of the Men's Network and Resource Centre in Dublin, a co-ordinating body of 40 men's support groups around the country, does not agree. His view is typical of many who say Mangan does not deserve the presidential pardon it is understood she will receive.

"Four months is too lenient for what that young girl did," he says. "If a man had made such an accusation the retribution would have been much harsher." Spooner claims the law is weighted more in favour of women when a complaint of this nature is made. He has come across "several" examples of false accusations during the course of his work, he says.
If the Cyprus case had gone ahead, the lives of the three Irish soldiers would have been "destroyed", according to John Lucey, general secretary of PDFORRA, the representative body for enlisted men in the Defence Forces.

The fact that Mangan "had a few drinks, met this guy and went home with him" is "her own business", says Lucey. "In a way I feel sorry for her . . .but then again if she had stuck to her story she would have destroyed the lives of three young men. The Defence Forces enjoy great respect internationally. It would have been terrible for the country . . . but even with what's happened the mud will stick."

Those who display a sympathetic approach to the situation are interpreted as wholeheartedly condoning what Mangan did, says Noreen Byrne, chairwoman of the National Women's Council. "If you don't completely leap on the condemnation bandwagon then you are accused of being soft on her.

"To falsely accuse anyone of such a serious crime is unnacceptable. But the media coverage, all this talk about her state of undress, is part of her punishment. We shouldn't forget that she has to come home to all that."
False rape claims are "extremely rare", she says, citing an American study where only 2 per cent of claims were found to be false. "We should put this in perspective," she says.

Anne O'Neill acknowledges that the three Irish soldiers did not deserve to be accused of rape. "But my sympathy for them is tempered somewhat by the reports. They are being hailed as these brave lads, when really they deserve a major kick in the arse."

Meanwhile, says Olive Braiden, Annette Mangan will need to be handled delicately when she returns home. "She will need a lot of help and care from her friends and family when she comes back. Prison is a very high price to pay for what appears to have been a thoughtless and stupid mistake."

Reviews and Books Galore

"I found it incredible that ordinary people were calling radio stations criticising her [Mangan's] behaviour on the night in question. As far as I can see a lot of it is to do with their set views on how a woman should behave," she says.

I really wish men would stop backing down at accusations of sexism. It really is absurd how often that is used in an argument.



Wow, those qoutes really are sickening.


Edit: Honestly, things have to change and women have to regulate toxic female behaviour. It's quite simple as regulating false accuastions (at a micro level) and abusing men in public.

Pawwed Rig

Morons like this do Fathers no favours


https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/lifestyle/features/learner-dad-as-long-as-other-people-gave-their-kids-sugar-we-assumed-we-didnt-have-a-problem-957801.html?fbclid=IwAR0o0nNUHdo9C0anj1SGxJ0qDJ01MwNP5uc0yrNdTinq9-2oL7SMJ75lGxU


Dope

Calhoun

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Morons like this do Fathers no favours


https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/lifestyle/features/learner-dad-as-long-as-other-people-gave-their-kids-sugar-we-assumed-we-didnt-have-a-problem-957801.html?fbclid=IwAR0o0nNUHdo9C0anj1SGxJ0qDJ01MwNP5uc0yrNdTinq9-2oL7SMJ75lGxU


Dope

It's not just men it's women only people are legit stupid. Cannot remember which program it was but remember seeing kids having all their teeth pulled they had rotted so bad.

tritium

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Morons like this do Fathers no favours


https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/lifestyle/features/learner-dad-as-long-as-other-people-gave-their-kids-sugar-we-assumed-we-didnt-have-a-problem-957801.html?fbclid=IwAR0o0nNUHdo9C0anj1SGxJ0qDJ01MwNP5uc0yrNdTinq9-2oL7SMJ75lGxU


Dope

It sounds like both parents are doing this tbh so I don’t see why the focus on the dad. It kind of comes across as another “dads are hopeless” article, rather unfairly imho

Pawwed Rig

tritium wrote: »

It sounds like both parents are doing this tbh so I don’t see why the focus on the dad. It kind of comes across as another “dads are hopeless” article, rather unfairly imho

Yeah that was my point. Another hapless useless Dad story. Dad causes the problems and Mam solves them

iptba

Chef who asked for kiss after All-Ireland win awarded €17,500 for unfair dismissal
Avid GAA supporter had been sacked and accused of sexual harassment

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/chef-who-asked-for-kiss-after-all-ireland-win-awarded-17-500-for-unfair-dismissal-1.4059046

py2006

iptba wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/chef-who-asked-for-kiss-after-all-ireland-win-awarded-17-500-for-unfair-dismissal-1.4059046

At least he didn't make a violent threat against....unlike her!

Calhoun

py2006 wrote: »

At least he didn't make a violent threat against....unlike her!

He was also quite stupid given that he had asked her out previously and she refused he should have taken the hint.

The company fundamentally acted badly regardless of the behavior from either participant.

One eyed Jack

py2006 wrote: »

At least he didn't make a violent threat against....unlike her!

Scraping the bottom of the barrel for that one py!

I’m the same as Calhoun above, guy was an idiot who should have taken the hint the first time. He was lucky to have gotten €17k out of it given his explanation was that -

He told the WRC that he had said “the wrong thing to the wrong person”.

I wouldn’t see anything wrong with it if she had given him a smack tbh :pac:

py2006

I guess so.

He was an idiot for saying it. Although her reaction was OTT and his sacking for sexual harassment is a sad reflection on the society today.

If he threatened to slap her in the face after rejecting her advances would he be sacked?

py2006

py2006 wrote: »

If he threatened to slap her in the face after rejecting her advances would he be sacked?

Probably arrested.

One eyed Jack

py2006 wrote: »

I guess so.

He was an idiot for saying it. Although her reaction was OTT and his sacking for sexual harassment is a sad reflection on the society today.

If he threatened to slap her in the face after rejecting her advances would he be sacked?

Meh, I dunno if her reaction was OTT, nor do I think his getting fired reflects anything upon society, particularly as he received €17k in compensation.

He probably would have been sacked too if he’d threatened to slap her in the face after rejecting her advances, I know I’d certainly sack him.

You’re describing a set of circumstances which didn’t happen though.

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Meh, I dunno if her reaction was OTT, nor do I think his getting fired reflects anything upon society, particularly as he received €17k in compensation.

He probably would have been sacked too if he’d threatened to slap her in the face after rejecting her advances, I know I’d certainly sack him.

You’re describing a set of circumstances which didn’t happen though.

He's describing the same thing that happened, except with the genders reversed. The bloke gets sacked in both scenarios. Seems a little unfair. Thankfully the right decision was made, his ex employer was found guilty of unfair dismissal and this guy got his compensation.

Calhoun

Was it a real threat of violence or was it if you kissed me or pressure you to kiss me without permission i will "give you a smack".

We cannot tell what the situation would have been in reverse but what we do know is the company was at fault for not follow the right dismissal procedures.

This ain't the hill to die on for men's rights.

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He's describing the same thing that happened, except with the genders reversed. The bloke gets sacked in both scenarios. Seems a little unfair. Thankfully the right decision was made, his ex employer was found guilty of unfair dismissal and this guy got his compensation.

That’s what makes them two completely different scenarios.

I was never one for that whole ‘reverse the genders’ nonsense as though it in any way a reflection of reality. Consider for example the idea of a guy who had previously asked you out and you turned him down, then he came back looking for a kiss off you. I dunno about you but I’d be warning him I’ll knock him out if he tries anything like that again.

I wouldn’t feel the same way if it were a woman because I’m not into hitting women.

I’m guessing this was supposed to be some kind of a story about ‘gender equality’ anyway, not something I’ve ever given any heed to either.

Reviews and Books Galore

I think the government body might be trying to stop these 'accuse and get ahead' situations. Although, it is strange that they actually picked a case that could be construed as harrasment

Reviews and Books Galore

Lads, I think we have a hill to die on


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/texas-father-blocked-from-stopping-gender-transition-of-son-james-7-to-girl-called-luna

Padraig Mor

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Lads, I think we have a hill to die on


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/texas-father-blocked-from-stopping-gender-transition-of-son-james-7-to-girl-called-luna

Read about that the other day. Shocking stuff although I guess that makes me a bigot. Wanna know the best bit, which isn't mentioned in that article? The twins were created using IVF and an egg donor - she's not even biologically related to the poor kid! I can't confirm it, but I would presume the father in the case is actually the biological father.

Calhoun

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Lads, I think we have a hill to die on


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/texas-father-blocked-from-stopping-gender-transition-of-son-james-7-to-girl-called-luna

I don't think it's a hill just for men to die on but for society. Luckily in Ireland we still have protection for children under the age of 18 and we should fight to keep those in place .

Reviews and Books Galore

Calhoun wrote: »

I don't think it's a hill just for men to die on but for society. Luckily in Ireland we still have protection for children under the age of 18 and we should fight to keep those in place .

Sadly, I have noticed that the girls have been very quiet about this kind of like the false accusation trial in Cyprus. I guess if they speak out against it they can face social isolation, being seen as racist/sexist/lower class and perhaps lose their jobs.



Imo, I'm not even sure calling this child abuse is enough. It's probably worse than FGM as it's total chemical castration.

Calhoun

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Sadly, I have noticed that the girls have been very quiet about this kind of like the false accusation trial in Cyprus. I guess if they speak out against it they can face social isolation, being seen as racist/sexist/lower class and perhaps lose their jobs.



Imo, I'm not even sure calling this child abuse is enough. It's probably worse than FGM as it's total chemical castration.

Not really they are the ones more often than not being abused by laws around trans freedoms.

You only have to look at the likes of the Jessica Yanic in Canada or the recent more to remove the venus logo from tampons as things being forced upon them.

Reviews and Books Galore

Eh, this is up to men to start complaining and start 'rocking the boat'.

Calhoun

Calhoun wrote: »

He was also quite stupid given that he had asked her out previously and she refused he should have taken the hint.

Admittedly I'm in China, and haven't been in Ireland for two years, but seriously?

He asked her previously to go to the cinema with him. Easily construed as a gesture towards friendship, and later asked for a kiss on the cheek. The cheek. In a joking manner. Hardly what I would consider even remotely grounds for sexual harassment. There's no mention of any body language or verbal language to suggest a sexual angle.

Growing up in Ireland both offers would have been thrown off as friendly joking behavior. Now? Dismissal.

This kind of attitude really needs to squashed, and a return towards the days when Irish people had some degree of common sense.

H3llR4iser

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Lads, I think we have a hill to die on


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/texas-father-blocked-from-stopping-gender-transition-of-son-james-7-to-girl-called-luna

I'm probably going to hell for this, well, I was most likely gonna end up there anyway to be honest, but...without any more information, this reads to me like a "mommy really wanted a girl and now has decided to make one" scenario. Way too early to decide for the child.

Calhoun

H3llR4iser wrote: »

I'm probably going to hell for this, well, I was most likely gonna end up there anyway to be honest, but...without any more information, this reads to me like a "mommy really wanted a girl and now has decided to make one" scenario. Way too early to decide for the child.

In allot of cases from the outside it looks like projection.

Sleepy

From the article, it really looks like you're correct H3llR4iser:

Expert witnesses expressed doubt that James was fully convinced that he was inherently female in testimony last week. "There is still some fluidity in his thinking," said Dr. Benjamin Albritton in sworn testimony. "Neither child appears to be depressed, anxious or aggressive ... He [James] gave no indications of other significant psychological difficulties."

Un****ingbelievable carry on from the court.

Calhoun

Deleted User wrote: »

Admittedly I'm in China, and haven't been in Ireland for two years, but seriously?

He asked her previously to go to the cinema with him. Easily construed as a gesture towards friendship, and later asked for a kiss on the cheek. The cheek. In a joking manner. Hardly what I would consider even remotely grounds for sexual harassment. There's no mention of any body language or verbal language to suggest a sexual angle.

Growing up in Ireland both offers would have been thrown off as friendly joking behavior. Now? Dismissal.

This kind of attitude really needs to squashed, and a return towards the days when Irish people had some degree of common sense.

In the age of metoo you are stupid if you mix business and pleasure in the first instance but second the fact that he was let go for sexual harassment means she took it as a sexual angle.

Things have changed since we grew up am I happy about all the changes? No of course not but you got to also remember there was many an arsehole who abused the way it was in the past.

Its been established he shouldn't have been dismissed for it hence the award.