Lara Croft: Rape Victim?

Kash

PrincessLola wrote: »

I'd be concerned that such a scene could be triggering to some people. Its very different to a violent attack. If you are brutally beaten by someone there is no question that it is not your fault, whereas society traditionally likes to insinuate that rape is a two way game, with the victim playing some part in it.

Then one could argue that this scene challenges that insinuation - it portrays this assault as an opportunistic act of violence against the traditionally weaker sex. It then goes on to challenge the 'weaker sex' concept - something that Lara Croft has been doing since day one.

Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating the use of sexual violence in video games, but the fact remains that these are games for adults - not children.

I simply can't imagine a similar reaction if this was a scene in a new "Tomb Raider: Origin" movie... in fact I would be surprised if that scene alone would warrant more than a 15A rating at the cinema.

While I don't think it's a good thing to have in a game, I also don't think it's such a bad thing.

Very few parents realise that there's age certs on games. Kids and adults alike are playing games like GTA which, while fun, are terribly effective at trivialising serious issues. In GTA you can shoot people, run over old women and pick up prostitutes. If I recall correctly, you can pick up a hooker, use her, shoot her, and steal your money back.

When I used to play Tomb Raider, I would feel genuine fear at times, when I knew a tiger was waiting to jump out at me, or at a stage where I had died a few times. Maybe it's not such a bad thing to see a serious issue like sexual assault and feel fear for your character. While it's not a nice thing to see, it might undo some of the desensitisation that some people are experiencing. Whether you're identifying with your character or protecting her, the outcome is the same - you feel fear when she's in danger and I don't think that's a bad thing.

Arawn

This stuff has been in games or aluded too in games for quite some time. They're just not massive block buster titles.

If anything the scene is good, instead of just freezing and letting it happen she fights back and wins.

I really don't get the stick games get, they are the biggest entertainment in the world and yet it's constantly accused of being for sexist little nerd boys, yet put it in a film then it's a method of story telling

Bubblefett

Last year "dead island" came out, a zombie survival game, a good game and I enjoyed it but rape is featured in it a lot more than what they're claiming will be in Tomb Raider. From finding zombie women tied up in sex room to

having one of your companions raped during a mission

. Granted the book features it in a lot more detail than the game. These aren't done as a character building aid, they're featured to describe what an unfriendly violent place the world would become should mankind loose all rules and control.

I'm all for the evolution of games but I am against shock value and lazy storytelling. I don't think female heros need to be raped to be shown to be strong. Look at Samus, the star of metroid, she first appeared back in the 80s and was awesome.
And now a days you can play fallout, boarderlands, oblivion, fable, mass effect and others as a woman.
You're kick ass women in Mirrors edge, bulletstorm, left 4 dead, Halo Reach, Unreal etc etc etc. In fact, looking at my games collection I see very few damsels in distress characters...

Completely agree with Fluorescence. A major problem is still the mentality of "games are for kids." The 18s sticker isn't there for fun or to mark difficulty, it's there to for content.

krudler

bubblefett wrote: »

Completely agree with Fluorescence. A major problem is still the mentality of "games are for kids." The 18s sticker isn't there for fun or to mark difficulty, it's there to for content.

I could never, and still don't understand why people buy 18s rated games for kids, if you wouldn't let them watch something like Drive, or Hostel, or any number of 18's rated films, why would you let them play a game with content as adult as those movies?

Bubblefett

krudler wrote: »

I could never, and still don't understand why people buy 18s rated games for kids, if you wouldn't let them watch something like Drive, or Hostel, or any number of 18's rated films, why would you let them play a game with content as adult as those movies?

I worked the release of Black Ops and the company insisted we remind every parent buying it for their kids that there was a controversial scene and that they should opt to skip it. Just goes to show how often the age rating is overlooked.
The amount of under 9 year olds who managed to get parents to get them that game was unbelievable.

tigger123

http://zcint.co.uk/article/studio-responds-to-lara-croft-rape-controversy

krudler

bubblefett wrote: »

I worked the release of Black Ops and the company insisted we remind every parent buying it for their kids that there was a controversial scene and that they should opt to skip it. Just goes to show how often the age rating is overlooked.
The amount of under 9 year olds who managed to get parents to get them that game was unbelievable.

same as the GTA games, you wouldnt let a 9 year old watch Boyz N The Hood, yet parents let them buy and play the game equivalant

Logical Fallacy

krudler wrote: »

True, rape has never been shied away from in movies, something like The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo for example. In a game you're controlling the character though so maybe it seems more crass to have it in there. I'm all for female characters breaking out of the damsel in distress who need rescuing mould, and being ones who rescue themselves instead of relying on male characters to do it. You rarely, if ever play as a female character who has to protect a male one, yet you do this constantly in reverse in games its been a staple for years.

This is why you have to love Mass Effect. You can play Shepard as a female character, you can have same sex relationships in it, you make decisions about all kinds of things like an entire alien race being sterilised and the eradication of another one.

Games have grown up, just like gamers. Games get rated, just like movies.

Personally, regarding Lara Croft, I never got into the original games. Played them a bit but I found them boring. I am looking forward to this reboot as it starts out as an origin story. There is nothing wrong with frailty written into a character, definitely nothing wrong with watching that character change and overcome fear and weakness. I might just buy this thing.

As for rape in computer games...that's more complex. Rape and Murder are both bad enough for me to capitilise them in this sentence. I just logged off Battlefield 3 Multiplayer where I racked up 42 kills, 4 of them from sneaky up on guys and killing them with a knife. I just find it odd that we view murder in computer games as being so normal but I myself find the concept of a computer game with a rape scene to be distasteful and I have no idea why.

It's strange that really, isn't it? Games like the recent Mass Effect 3 deal with entire planets being decimated, and games have dealt with themes such as torture, animal abuse, murder and other aspects without so much as a raised eyebrow from the media.

The problem with discussing this now is that we don't actually know how the game is going to play out - we don't know what circumstances are going to arise or what situations the character is going to get herself into, so it's hard to say whether the attempted rape scene will what makes her stronger.

Games are evolving and people need to realize this. It's like when people buy their kids the GTA games - those feature drugs, extremely strong violence, prostitution (and the option to murder said prostitutes to get your money back), reckless driving and yet they deem it OK?

It's also tough to call what the age rating is likely to be. Due to the media attention, it's likely to get an 18 certificate, but without it, I can envisage a 15, because the attempted rape scene isn't glorified (seemingly).

Sonics2k

A quote from the Developers

“Our aim was to take Lara Croft on an exploration of what makes her the character she embodies in later Tomb Raider games. One of the character defining moments for Lara in the game, which has incorrectly been referred to as an ‘attempted rape’ scene […] is where Lara is forced to kill another human for the first time.”

“In this particular section, while there is a threatening undertone in the sequence and surrounding drama, it never goes any further than the scenes that we have already shown publicly. Sexual assault of any kind is categorically not a theme that we cover in this game. […] We’re sorry this has not been better explained.”

Source

I do think there's a level of over-reaction here. I'd safely say that many people complaining about this have yet to actually watch the clip, despite it being linked in this very clip.

There is no rape, but there is an insinuation from a bad guy. Whose arse Lara quickly beats the crap out of.

On a larger scale. Sexual assault is of course a very serious and careful topic. But video games have greatly advanced from the days of Super Mario and even the original Tomb Raider games, and story lines are hugely important in a good game these days.

If we can watch regular daytime T.V. shows that deal with sexual assault and rape victims, why not in a video game? As long as it's not done in poor taste, it can still establish a great character plot, development and story for the viewer (player) to immerse themselves in.

Ectoplasm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

As for rape in computer games...that's more complex. Rape and Murder are both bad enough for me to capitilise them in this sentence. I just logged off Battlefield 3 Multiplayer where I racked up 42 kills, 4 of them from sneaky up on guys and killing them with a knife. I just find it odd that we view murder in computer games as being so normal but I myself find the concept of a computer game with a rape scene to be distasteful and I have no idea why.

This was something that struck me as odd in my own response too; I've happily racked up virtual 'kills' in a variety of games without a second thought but the idea of 'actively' playing out a rape is totally abhorrent to me, which does seem like an odd contradiction.

I was thinking about why this was (is it that I'm desensitised to murder, do I overreact to rape etc.) and I think that the difference is in how 'justifiable' I see these crimes in real life terms. By that I mean that in real life, I would consider that killing other people can be justified; self-defense, defending others and so on. I don't think the same can ever be said about rape.

Regarding the game being discussed here, I'm not averse to the idea that adult games contain adult scenes and themes and rape is a reality. A playable scenario would however bother me.

Kooli

EMF2010 wrote: »

I was thinking about why this was (is it that I'm desensitised to murder, do I overreact to rape etc.) and I think that the difference is in how 'justifiable' I see these crimes in real life terms. By that I mean that in real life, I would consider that killing other people can be justified; self-defense, defending others and so on. I don't think the same can ever be said about rape.

.

I'd almost say the complete opposite! I think the reason is that murder is seen as off-the-wall unjustifiable (unless it's war I suppose), and most people would be in unanimous agreement that they would never kill anyone except in extreme circumstances. And most of us could say with certainty that we don't know anyone who has murdered someone or been murdered, and we're all clear on that. If a murder happens, it's absolutely certain that the response from the authorities and the public will be clear-cut, unambiguous in condemnation. So killing in games is pure fantasy. There's no grey area for the majority of people of whether it's something they may one day commit or be the victim of themselves.

Rape on the other hand is something that is not very rare. And it's not just psychos who do it. Normal guys, who lead otherwise possibly good and moral lives, have done it. Many people even disagree about the definitions of it, and when it happens, there is a variety of responses, and a variety of levels of taking it seriously. I'd go as far as to talk about the presence of a 'rape culture'. So to have rape as part of a fun game when it's not universally and unambiguously condemned in real life (unless it's stranger rape of a woman who is sober, didn't dress provocatively, didn't do ANYTHING wrong), and when potentially some of the players are people who either will rape or be raped, is a very different thing.

Here's an interesting article for those questioning why a rape has to happen in the first place to give the character depth or a reason to be kickass:

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/culture/2012/06/lara-croft-and-rape-stories-breaking-down-bitch

Worth a read.

Scarinae

This blog post from the other day is an interesting perspective - it is from a male rape survivor. It does have a warning though that it could be potentially triggering for some people.

I've seen a lot of comments on these articles suggesting that blowback about rape is part of some sort of "feminist agenda." This bothered me for a number of reasons, the first being that I think the "feminist agenda" can be summed up by the phrase "we would really like it if you treated us like people." The second fact is that I, as a rape victim, identified with a lot of the parties feeling upset about these topics, and I think there's been a disconnect. See, this isn't about feminists being offended, this is about how the ill-use of sensitive topics can hurt people.

nadey

its only a game at the end of the day its not real

i know that rape does happen a very serious matter and its the lowest of the low for the women that go through it but all games have something in them that will offened someone in one way or another

it was like with the COD game and the sceen in the airport which was very graphic which in my opinion is much worse than lara croft nearly getting raped

be much worse if they actually did let her get raped and showed it in the game

the way i see if people dont like it then dont buy it out of sight out of mind

Ambersky

Excellent article Scarinae.
@nadey did you read the article posted just before your post

nadey

Ambersky wrote: »

Excellent article Scarinae.
@nadey did you read the article posted just before your post

no what article

whats it about