Lara Croft: Rape Victim?

krudler

So there's a new Tomb Raider game coming out and its already sparking some controversy in a scene where Lara Croft is almost raped by an enemy soldier:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/13/tomb-raider-lara-croft-rape-attempt?INTCMP=SRCH

The Tomb Raider video game franchise, and its heroine Lara Croft, is 16 years, nine games, two films and at least one amusement park ride, old this year. Although Lara was originally best known for the remarkable size of her breasts – and that's still probably the first thing to spring to mind about her – she's grown into an interesting character, with plenty of adventures under her belt. And at the recent E3 conference developers Crystal Dynamics revealed a new, gritty version of Lara Croft's history – one that sees her bloodied, bruised, badly wounded, and forced to fight for her life against mercenaries, one of whom tries to rape her before she blows his head off.

The inclusion of the attempted rape scene raises some difficult questions. If the scene is playable, what exactly happens should the player fail? If it is not, why show it at all? Lara is already going through a lot – shipwreck, major injury, a friend's kidnapping, the threat of death – and adding sexual assault to the mix might just be over-egging the pudding.

As a gamer I like how games are becoming more adult focused, dealing with broader issues and stuff like sexual themes without descending into juvenile titilation, but is this a step too far? Lara was always a subject of teenage fantasy and they've moved away from the massive chested sex object to someone more real looking. Having a hero in peril isn't anything new but it just seems like overkill to have her almost sexually assaulted, something thats a very real danger to women on top of the stuff in the game like shipwrecks, hostile natives and the other dangers involved in an adventure scenario.

Dave0301

Interesting topic, personally I think that it's a brave decision to include something like this due to the potential and understandable distress it could cause. Scenes like this are still controversial in other media forms such as TV and film.

Having said that with the way the computer game industry has developed, it could be argued that more emotive scenes and involving story lines are pivotal to expanding the industry. Who is to say that computer games can't have the same influence that a movie or book may have. A look at the Final Fantasy 7 thread on it'd being played from a different perspective certainly shows that computer games have the ability to garner a reaction.

Handsome Bob

I read about this coming into work this morning and to be honest, I wouldn't see it as a big deal. You'd see much worse in films and TV shows (and I mean much worse, ridiculously over the top play by play portrayal of rape), so I don't see an issue here if it's only attempted.

Now, if a game actually portrayed rape happening that would be crossing the line, no doubt about it.

krudler

Dave0301 wrote: »

Interesting topic, personally I think that it's a brave decision to include something like this due to the potential and understandable distress it could cause. Scenes like this are still controversial in other media forms such as TV and film.

Having said that with the way the computer game industry has developed, it could be argued that more emotive scenes and involving story lines are pivotal to expanding the industry. Who is to say that computer games can't have the same influence that a movie or book may have. A look at the Final Fantasy 7 thread on it'd being played from a different perspective certainly shows that computer games have the ability to garner a reaction.

True, rape has never been shied away from in movies, something like The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo for example. In a game you're controlling the character though so maybe it seems more crass to have it in there. I'm all for female characters breaking out of the damsel in distress who need rescuing mould, and being ones who rescue themselves instead of relying on male characters to do it. You rarely, if ever play as a female character who has to protect a male one, yet you do this constantly in reverse in games its been a staple for years.

krudler

Handsome Bob wrote: »

I read about this coming into work this morning and to be honest, I wouldn't see it as a big deal. You'd see much worse in films and TV shows (and I mean much worse, ridiculously over the top play by play portrayal of rape), so I don't see an issue here if it's only attempted.

Now, if a game actually portrayed rape happening that would be crossing the line, no doubt about it.

Silent Hill 2 had a rape scene between two monsters but its more suggested, thats probably the best example of a game dealing with sexual themes ever, its a constant theme in throughout the game.

Dave0301

Just had a look at the trailer there and it's certainly not anything that you wouldn't see in Eastenders in fairness!

Now if you were playing a female character and you had to 'fight' off an attack and you failed, well that is something different.

Dave0301

krudler wrote: »

True, rape has never been shied away from in movies, something like The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo for example. In a game you're controlling the character though so maybe it seems more crass to have it in there. I'm all for female characters breaking out of the damsel in distress who need rescuing mould, and being ones who rescue themselves instead of relying on male characters to do it. You rarely, if ever play as a female character who has to protect a male one, yet you do this constantly in reverse in games its been a staple for years.

The male hero has often been a result of the market that computer games have been aiming for, mostly young men.

However as a guy myself if I was playing as a heroine and I somehow managed to fail a part of a game that directly resulted in the rape of the character, well that would be hard to play through for me personally.

sharper

The inclusion of the attempted rape scene raises some difficult questions. If the scene is playable, what exactly happens should the player fail? If it is not, why show it at all?

I don't really see why this point is notable - every game offers a limited set of outcomes based on user actions. If her life is threatened what happens should the player fail? If she's supposed to acquire some important item or protect an import character what happens if the player fails? Typically the game simply comes to an end you have to replay to achieve the "successful" outcome.

I do think it's interesting though that we have all manner of wargames showing all manner of death and violence but once the uncomfortable topic of rape is approached suddenly it's too far.

Gauge

For me it's not about how the subject of rape is more taboo than others. I rolled my eyes when I read about this because the "rape origin story" is a giant cliche and the laziest of lazy storytelling.

I can't speak for other woman on this but the "rape as character strengthening plot device" is overdone and tbh, gross. It's everywhere. It's a cliche. Need a female character to overcome something? Need to add a little darkness? Lets throw in sexual assault because there's certainly no other ways to further her character.

I mean, here I thought Lara Croft was a strong character because she's educated, she kicks ass, she doesn't take sh1t from anyone. That would be more than enough origin story for any male character. I'm going to throw in a tweet that's popped up more than a few times in my feed this past week from Brendan Keogh, a video game critic:

Remember how Indiana Jones's and Nathan Drake's origin stories had to use sexual assaults to build their characters? Me neither.

While it doesn't seem like they intended to make the rape scene titillating or sexual- I just don't see why it's necessary to rewrite her story like this. I really don't. Can someone please tell me what it adds?

I'm not saying we should shy away from sexual assault in media. It's a terrible reality for a huge proportion of women and I would prefer not to see that censored. But for me it becomes problematic when it's used over, and over, and over as 'character development' SPECIFICALLY for female characters. It's not a case of oh, violence and death are okay but rape is too far!

Like I said, it's lazy. You can have a strong female character. It doesn't ALWAYS have to be "this female character is strong because of all this pain and trauma in her past." I'm so tired of it.

I severely doubt the attempted rape scene is going to be playable. More that it's going to be a cutscene. I can't imagine any game would include one that is playable - there's no way in hell it would be made and no distributor would even try and have it shipped, nor any shop would stock it. Well, I would hope that they wouldn't.

Honestly, I personally don't see the problem with it being included in games as such. Look at any other media and it features there - from The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo to even Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which also features an attempted rape scene.

The probable outcome of the attempted rape scene in Lara Croft is that the enemy soldier will either be killed, injured extremely badly, or arrested - though, knowing this style of game, it will be likely killed. That, for me, should be seen as a good thing. It portrays that there are severe consequences for actions like those.

Dave0301

Gauge wrote: »

For me it's not about how the subject of rape is more taboo than others. I rolled my eyes when I read about this because the "rape origin story" is a giant cliche and the laziest of lazy storytelling.

I can't speak for other woman on this but the "rape as character strengthening plot device" is overdone and tbh, gross. It's everywhere. It's a cliche. Need a female character to overcome something? Need to add a little darkness? Lets throw in sexual assault because there's certainly no other ways to further her character.

I mean, here I thought Lara Croft was a strong character because she's educated, she kicks ass, she doesn't take sh1t from anyone. That would be more than enough origin story for any male character. I'm going to throw in a tweet that's popped up more than a few times in my feed this past week from Brendan Keogh, a video game critic:

Remember how Indiana Jones's and Nathan Drake's origin stories had to use sexual assaults to build their characters? Me neither.

While it doesn't seem like they intended to make the rape scene titillating or sexual- I just don't see why it's necessary to rewrite her story like this. I really don't. Can someone please tell me what it adds?

I'm not saying we should shy away from sexual assault in media. It's a terrible reality for a huge proportion of women and I would prefer not to see that censored. But for me it becomes problematic when it's used over, and over, and over as 'character development' SPECIFICALLY for female characters. It's not a case of oh, violence and death are okay but rape is too far!

Like I said, it's lazy. You can have a strong female character. It doesn't ALWAYS have to be "this female character is strong because of all this pain and trauma in her past." I'm so tired of it.

I'm sure someone who knows more about the game can say more, but from what I gather from media and the trailer I watched is that this is set before Lara has become all bad ass etc.

The producers wanted to put her in a situation where she had to kill another human for the first time and this is the scenario they used. I suppose they used this as it could be a lot of women's worst nightmare.

However I do agree with what you are saying.

Morag

There is part of me which thinks, y'know this crap happens to women.
More women then most people ever think it does or wants to consider it does.
It is lazy story telling but seriously given the situations that Lora finds herself in and the types of bad guys, it is a professional hazard for her. (and not I am not victim blaming). It could well be that the inclusion of this in the back story depending on how it is done, may well highlight the issue which so many women live with.

Do I think that it makes her less of a role model and a kick ass char?
No but then again I think what drives a person to over come is interesting and I like chars to be flaws and human.

I can understand the wanting games to be escapism and the want to be transported to fantastical places but lets face it if you are getting quests in skyrim to kill and intimidate people in that sort of a setting it's not that far of a stretch to know that at some stage in that sort of society rape happens, or people are even hired to do it.

That would be an interesting quest imho the option to take on the quest or go tell the intended victim and instead kill the person who wanted it done. Not everyone's cup of tea but if you are going for grimdark in your games or gritty nasty realism I find out the leaving out of rape or sexual assault to be odd.

Lora Croft is a woman who lives an unconventional life in the games, she is a strong woman and you bet your arse some dickhead would have at some stage tried to teach her that she is 'only' a woman by trying to reduce her to being a ****toy, personally I'd like to see that seen unfold with her putting a bullet in his balls and then his brain.

Which no doubt will result in the rabble rabble man hatting feminist stuff being spouted at me, nope not man hating, just rapist hating.

syklops

Todays Metro wrote:

"But Holly Dustin, Director of the End Violence Against Women Coalition, said "Victimising women and using rape as entertainment is not only misogynistic, it risks normalising and condoning sexual violence to young people"

Headline in todays Metro "Outrage at Lara Croft game 'rape'

Headline in tuesdays Metro "Injured woman raped by friend"

Where was Holly Dustin on Tuesday and why didn't she comment on a real life rape? Where was the outrage to that?

Gauge

Dave0301 wrote: »

I'm sure someone who knows more about the game can say more, but from what I gather from media and the trailer I watched is that this is set before Lara has become all bad ass etc.

The producers wanted to put her in a situation where she had to kill another human for the first time and this is the scenario they used. I suppose they used this as it could be a lot of women's worst nightmare.

However I do agree with what you are saying.

Yeah I realise that- and that is what bugs me about it to be honest.

From what I gather this is a reboot- the previous Lara was a strong character for the reasons I listed in my previous post. She was a kickass explorer who enjoyed what she did (granted I haven't played Tomb Raider since the PS1 versions were around so this is only my perception of her from way back when).

She's a strong character in this version of the game too, sure, but it's only because she's been overcome, victimised by a man, broken down and forced to rebuild herself, and that is why it bothers me.

Gauge

Gauge wrote: »

She's a strong character in this version of the game too, sure, but it's only because she's been overcome, victimised by a man, broken down and forced to rebuild herself, and that is why it bothers me.

How many women have been forced to go through those very same circumstances though? Surely, the fact that she does come through it and gets stronger would make for a stronger female role model?

johnny_ultimate

As I said on another thread:

I don't think games should shy away from broaching such topics - but it should only be encouraged if it's handled in an intelligent way. I don't know how the scene in Tomb Raider will play, and there's certainly the high possibility it will be handled poorly and worthy of scorn. Yet if it sends the character off in an unexpected way or takes the time to examine the consequences (and it could go some way to justifying the re-imagination of the character we're seeing) it could be a bold, intriguing step in game storytelling. We don't know yet. But countless films, books and television have examined the topic in a provocative and mature manner: from Battlestar Galactica to Irreversible to Dragon Tattoo. While game writers have often shown themselves incapable of matching other mediums, they should certainly be trying to challenge expectations.

It just bothers me that tabloid outrage kicks off every time games try to extend beyond the 'safe' and expected. The backlash to the gay content of Mass Effect from both the media and gamers was frankly an embarrassment (although so was the execution of the sex scenes ). A handful of games have shown the medium can be home to intelligent storytelling. They're very much an exception, but there's no reason they should be.

Basically, I think it's impossible to call until we actually see the sequence in action (and certainly removed from the tabloid hyperbole perspective of the Metro Herald). Hearsay and marketing idiocy are no basis for automatic dismissal (although marketers utilising rape as a mere shock tactic is rightly worthy of disgust). If handled poorly, then yes we should scorn away. I don't know if it will go beyond the clichéd "heroine becomes frothing storm of vengeance following assault" line of thinking. But there is a possibility, however slight, that it will prove a challenging and provocative storytelling technique.

Gauge

Deleted User wrote: »

How many women have been forced to go through those very same circumstances though? Surely, the fact that she does come through it and gets stronger would make for a stronger female role model?

Why is it necessary though? She's strong. Why does she need to be raped in order to become stronger? Again, I feel like this would never be said about a male character.

Again, I stress, I'm not saying we should shy away from the topic, ignore it altogether, or not have it happen to people. But why did they feel the need to add it in to her new story?

And an interview with the game producer here doesn't exactly inspire confidence they did this in order to make her a stronger role model.

"When people play Lara, they don't really project themselves into the character" - really? I'd disagree. I definitely escaped into her character back when I played these games.

"They're more like 'I want to protect her.' There's this sort of dynamic of 'I'm going to this adventure with her and trying to protect her."- Ah yes. Sounds like a strong woman to me.

"She is literally turned into a cornered animal," Rosenberg said. "It's a huge step in her evolution: she's forced to either fight back or die." - Lovely. Just lovely.

I'm not saying it's necessary, not in the slightest. But we're entering an evolution of video games where it's all about realism, to an extent. And rape is a very real factor for both men and women, so it is something that shouldn't be shied away from.

We're also not fully sure yet as to how the whole thing will play out, so it makes it even harder to have a debate about it.

As I said previously, the probable outcome for the whole thing is that the perpetrator will either be injured severely, killed or arrested, with killed be the most likely. It shows that there are consequences for such actions and that is something that should be shown. If you rape someone, there will be consequences and these will be severe.

Morag

Deleted User wrote: »

How many women have been forced to go through those very same circumstances though? Surely, the fact that she does come through it and gets stronger would make for a stronger female role model?

But it is a thrope, should a female role model have to go through that to be stronger?

BunShopVoyeur

There is a Japanese game called RapeLay.
Those crazy Japanese...

krudler

in regards to females in video games, I thought Naughty Dog made a hugely positive step with Katherine Marlowe in Uncharted 3, a female villain who is smart, resourceful, cunning...and middle aged. She's got good dialogue, a great vocal performance and a decent backstory that doesn't revolve around the standard evil busty s&m clad video game vixen. More of this please game developers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuU0Yrqw8Lo

johnny_ultimate

Deleted User wrote: »

As I said previously, the probable outcome for the whole thing is that the perpetrator will either be injured severely, killed or arrested, with killed be the most likely. It shows that there are consequences for such actions and that is something that should be shown. If you rape someone, there will be consequences and these will be severe.

This is a danger, though, as the 'rape revenge fantasy' is in itself highly problematic and simplistic. And the demos of the games have shown a worryingly high body count (far removed from the old school survival style initially proposed). However, if the writers and developers examine and critiques the contradictions and character dilemmas such a quest for vengeance would lead to, then there's certainly a curious angle they could take. If it was more Apocalypse Now in illustrating Lara's descent into a hellish, morally skewed nightmare. Irreversible (for all its melodrama) is actually pretty effective in showing that violent revenge is a troublesome and contradictory response to a different violent act.

I am not optimistic this is the angle they would take, but it would be an altogether more fascinating one.

johnny_ultimate

My wording wasn't the best, I admit. I didn't mean that they come out stronger than they were before, I meant that they come out stronger than they were after the (attempted) rape, as in they recover. I'm not saying that the only way for them to be stronger is to go through that.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

This is a danger, though, as the 'rape revenge fantasy' is in itself highly problematic. And the demos of the games have shown a worryingly high body count (far removed from the old school survival style initially proposed). However, if the writers and developers examine and critiques the contradictions and character dilemmas such a quest for vengeance would lead to, then there's certainly a curious angle they could take. If it was more Apocalypse Now in illustrating Lara's descent into a hellish, morally skewed nightmare.

I am not optimistic this is the angle they would take, but it would be an altogether more fascinating one.

That is very true. The hopeful outcome is that the perpetrator is arrested and goes through the justice system, but when it comes to a game like Lara Croft, which features a lot of violence, then it's unlikely that it'd be the latter.

Fluorescence

Games are a powerful storytelling medium. But, like any other form of entertainment (books, movies, etc) there are good and bad ways to unfold a plot and deal with certain issues. So, ultimately, I think it will come down to how well the game handles this particular point of the narrative. I can't imagine it will be a playable scene though. That would just be too disturbing.

I don't see a problem with a game broaching this issue in general though. I really wish parents would realise that video games aren't necessarily children's games. There's a big issue of parents ignoring age guidelines on video games. If they wouldn't let their kid watch an 18s movie, they shouldn't let them play an 18s game. This latest Tomb Raider will probably be 18s if it's got a sexual assault scene. Thus, it should be kept out of minors' hands.

sharper

Gauge wrote: »

For me it's not about how the subject of rape is more taboo than others. I rolled my eyes when I read about this because the "rape origin story" is a giant cliche and the laziest of lazy storytelling.

The "dark past" of all varieties is severely overdone in the gaming genre.

It's quite a lazy story telling device and of course they went for the obvious choice too - a female character. If they wanted to do something interesting in a different game they could go with a male character being raped.

LittleBook

I love Tomb Raider. To be honest, the whole "origins" thing just sets my teeth on edge anyway. Like "Hannibal Rising", it just seems lazy and pointless to have to plough through the history of the character and then yes, to arrive at the oldest device in the book to mould a strong female character.

What I find unfathomable about this is that in going back to the vulnerable 21-year-old, they've changed Lara from a character you want to kick ass with to one you want to "protect".

I'm not a big-time gamer so I ask, is is normal that you want to "protect" your character? ... I mean apart from obviously trying to keep them alive in general.

According to the executive producer of the game

When people play Lara, they don't really project themselves into the character ... they're more like 'I want to protect her.' There's this sort of dynamic of 'I'm going to this adventure with her and trying to protect her.'

She's definitely the hero but— you're kind of like her helper. When you see her have to face these challenges, you start to root for her in a way that you might not root for a male character."

I never had any trouble rooting for Lara. It kind of makes me wonder if this guy knows his audience (which he clearly thinks is all male for starters). So rather than asking gamers to identify with a female character (which they clearly do!) they're being asked to protect her?

You'll Want To Protect The New Less Curvy Lara

Having said that, this is the guy who explicitly said the scavengers attempt to rape her but the studio head released a statement today saying:

One of the character defining moments for Lara in the game, which has incorrectly been referred to as an ‘attempted rape’ scene is the content we showed at this year’s E3 ... this is where Lara is forced to kill another human for the first time. In this particular section, while there is a threatening undertone in the sequence and surrounding drama, it never goes any further than the scenes that we have already shown publicly. Sexual assault of any kind is categorically not a theme that we cover in this game

Tomb Raider Press Release

More than likely this is back-tracking and the confrontation will be a straightforward fight for survival.

Or maybe the executive producer let his imagination run away with him.

Kash

Not sure if the trailer has been linked to already - but I think this is worth watching to put the whole discussion in perspective (the offending scene happens at 2:18 approx). I recommend watching the full trailer though.

Personally, I have no issue with this in a Tomb Raider game, and don't feel it detracts from her character. I've played every one of her games since the very first one, and the whole 'trial by fire' first adventure fits in with her story.

The actual 'rape' scene, although suggestive of intended assault, does not seem to be over the top, or misogynistic - instead it seems to offer a sense of realism to the games proposed situation. And she handles it in exactly the way I would expect Lara Croft to.

So, rather than viewing it as negative, I personally see it as an empowering approach to a real issue, and I'm all for female empowerment in video games.

meganj

I just don't get why it's necessary tbh.

The rape scene itself, wouldn't necessarily bother me, (playing too many violent video games obviously) but this whole notion of it will make players want to protect her, is BS.

She's Lara Fudging Croft, she doesn't need any protection. My favorite game remains the Assassins Creed series, at no point did I feel I was protecting Altair, Ezio or Desmond, I felt like I was kicking ass and taking names.

I just don't understand why a female character, and a very successful one at that, needs a rape/attempted rape in her backstory for people to play/empathize/enjoy. I cannot think of another vg where a character had a sexual assault in their past, violence yes, murder yes, war yes, but never sexual assault.

For me, it's unnecessary.

krudler

plugging Naughty Dog again, but this is a good example of protecting a female character, its from their upcoming game The Last Of Us, where you play as a father trying to keep himself and daughter alive in a post apocalyptic city:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWzcYbtZQrk

That I can empathise a lot more with than trying to help Lara Croft, I get what the game creators are trying to do in the new Tomb Raider, they want to make something edgier than the previous Indiana Jone type adventure games so want Lara to be more haggard, beaten and bloodied and its more a case of survival than a big adventure she wants to be on. not really sure what a rape attempt is needed to put her in more danger though.

Would Mona Sax, of Max Payne fame, be considered as a strong female role model too?

I honestly think this is being blown completely out of proportion. Games are evolving massively and have now started to take on a whole new sense of realism, with some very bold steps forward; we have the likes of Mass Effect 3 have gay characters, with the option of having a gay playable character.

Rape is featured in almost every other media, why should video games be any different? With that trailer, it looks like the action is going to be a cutscene rather than anything playable, or even a Quick Time Event (QTE) at that.

PrincessLola

I'd be concerned that such a scene could be triggering to some people. Its very different to a violent attack. If you are brutally beaten by someone there is no question that it is not your fault, whereas society traditionally likes to insinuate that rape is a two way game, with the victim playing some part in it.

Kash

PrincessLola wrote: »

I'd be concerned that such a scene could be triggering to some people. Its very different to a violent attack. If you are brutally beaten by someone there is no question that it is not your fault, whereas society traditionally likes to insinuate that rape is a two way game, with the victim playing some part in it.

Then one could argue that this scene challenges that insinuation - it portrays this assault as an opportunistic act of violence against the traditionally weaker sex. It then goes on to challenge the 'weaker sex' concept - something that Lara Croft has been doing since day one.

Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating the use of sexual violence in video games, but the fact remains that these are games for adults - not children.

I simply can't imagine a similar reaction if this was a scene in a new "Tomb Raider: Origin" movie... in fact I would be surprised if that scene alone would warrant more than a 15A rating at the cinema.

While I don't think it's a good thing to have in a game, I also don't think it's such a bad thing.

Very few parents realise that there's age certs on games. Kids and adults alike are playing games like GTA which, while fun, are terribly effective at trivialising serious issues. In GTA you can shoot people, run over old women and pick up prostitutes. If I recall correctly, you can pick up a hooker, use her, shoot her, and steal your money back.

When I used to play Tomb Raider, I would feel genuine fear at times, when I knew a tiger was waiting to jump out at me, or at a stage where I had died a few times. Maybe it's not such a bad thing to see a serious issue like sexual assault and feel fear for your character. While it's not a nice thing to see, it might undo some of the desensitisation that some people are experiencing. Whether you're identifying with your character or protecting her, the outcome is the same - you feel fear when she's in danger and I don't think that's a bad thing.

Arawn

This stuff has been in games or aluded too in games for quite some time. They're just not massive block buster titles.

If anything the scene is good, instead of just freezing and letting it happen she fights back and wins.

I really don't get the stick games get, they are the biggest entertainment in the world and yet it's constantly accused of being for sexist little nerd boys, yet put it in a film then it's a method of story telling

Bubblefett

Last year "dead island" came out, a zombie survival game, a good game and I enjoyed it but rape is featured in it a lot more than what they're claiming will be in Tomb Raider. From finding zombie women tied up in sex room to

having one of your companions raped during a mission

. Granted the book features it in a lot more detail than the game. These aren't done as a character building aid, they're featured to describe what an unfriendly violent place the world would become should mankind loose all rules and control.

I'm all for the evolution of games but I am against shock value and lazy storytelling. I don't think female heros need to be raped to be shown to be strong. Look at Samus, the star of metroid, she first appeared back in the 80s and was awesome.
And now a days you can play fallout, boarderlands, oblivion, fable, mass effect and others as a woman.
You're kick ass women in Mirrors edge, bulletstorm, left 4 dead, Halo Reach, Unreal etc etc etc. In fact, looking at my games collection I see very few damsels in distress characters...

Completely agree with Fluorescence. A major problem is still the mentality of "games are for kids." The 18s sticker isn't there for fun or to mark difficulty, it's there to for content.

krudler

bubblefett wrote: »

Completely agree with Fluorescence. A major problem is still the mentality of "games are for kids." The 18s sticker isn't there for fun or to mark difficulty, it's there to for content.

I could never, and still don't understand why people buy 18s rated games for kids, if you wouldn't let them watch something like Drive, or Hostel, or any number of 18's rated films, why would you let them play a game with content as adult as those movies?

Bubblefett

krudler wrote: »

I could never, and still don't understand why people buy 18s rated games for kids, if you wouldn't let them watch something like Drive, or Hostel, or any number of 18's rated films, why would you let them play a game with content as adult as those movies?

I worked the release of Black Ops and the company insisted we remind every parent buying it for their kids that there was a controversial scene and that they should opt to skip it. Just goes to show how often the age rating is overlooked.
The amount of under 9 year olds who managed to get parents to get them that game was unbelievable.

tigger123

http://zcint.co.uk/article/studio-responds-to-lara-croft-rape-controversy

krudler

bubblefett wrote: »

I worked the release of Black Ops and the company insisted we remind every parent buying it for their kids that there was a controversial scene and that they should opt to skip it. Just goes to show how often the age rating is overlooked.
The amount of under 9 year olds who managed to get parents to get them that game was unbelievable.

same as the GTA games, you wouldnt let a 9 year old watch Boyz N The Hood, yet parents let them buy and play the game equivalant

Logical Fallacy

krudler wrote: »

True, rape has never been shied away from in movies, something like The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo for example. In a game you're controlling the character though so maybe it seems more crass to have it in there. I'm all for female characters breaking out of the damsel in distress who need rescuing mould, and being ones who rescue themselves instead of relying on male characters to do it. You rarely, if ever play as a female character who has to protect a male one, yet you do this constantly in reverse in games its been a staple for years.

This is why you have to love Mass Effect. You can play Shepard as a female character, you can have same sex relationships in it, you make decisions about all kinds of things like an entire alien race being sterilised and the eradication of another one.

Games have grown up, just like gamers. Games get rated, just like movies.

Personally, regarding Lara Croft, I never got into the original games. Played them a bit but I found them boring. I am looking forward to this reboot as it starts out as an origin story. There is nothing wrong with frailty written into a character, definitely nothing wrong with watching that character change and overcome fear and weakness. I might just buy this thing.

As for rape in computer games...that's more complex. Rape and Murder are both bad enough for me to capitilise them in this sentence. I just logged off Battlefield 3 Multiplayer where I racked up 42 kills, 4 of them from sneaky up on guys and killing them with a knife. I just find it odd that we view murder in computer games as being so normal but I myself find the concept of a computer game with a rape scene to be distasteful and I have no idea why.

It's strange that really, isn't it? Games like the recent Mass Effect 3 deal with entire planets being decimated, and games have dealt with themes such as torture, animal abuse, murder and other aspects without so much as a raised eyebrow from the media.

The problem with discussing this now is that we don't actually know how the game is going to play out - we don't know what circumstances are going to arise or what situations the character is going to get herself into, so it's hard to say whether the attempted rape scene will what makes her stronger.

Games are evolving and people need to realize this. It's like when people buy their kids the GTA games - those feature drugs, extremely strong violence, prostitution (and the option to murder said prostitutes to get your money back), reckless driving and yet they deem it OK?

It's also tough to call what the age rating is likely to be. Due to the media attention, it's likely to get an 18 certificate, but without it, I can envisage a 15, because the attempted rape scene isn't glorified (seemingly).

Sonics2k

A quote from the Developers

“Our aim was to take Lara Croft on an exploration of what makes her the character she embodies in later Tomb Raider games. One of the character defining moments for Lara in the game, which has incorrectly been referred to as an ‘attempted rape’ scene […] is where Lara is forced to kill another human for the first time.”

“In this particular section, while there is a threatening undertone in the sequence and surrounding drama, it never goes any further than the scenes that we have already shown publicly. Sexual assault of any kind is categorically not a theme that we cover in this game. […] We’re sorry this has not been better explained.”

Source

I do think there's a level of over-reaction here. I'd safely say that many people complaining about this have yet to actually watch the clip, despite it being linked in this very clip.

There is no rape, but there is an insinuation from a bad guy. Whose arse Lara quickly beats the crap out of.

On a larger scale. Sexual assault is of course a very serious and careful topic. But video games have greatly advanced from the days of Super Mario and even the original Tomb Raider games, and story lines are hugely important in a good game these days.

If we can watch regular daytime T.V. shows that deal with sexual assault and rape victims, why not in a video game? As long as it's not done in poor taste, it can still establish a great character plot, development and story for the viewer (player) to immerse themselves in.

Ectoplasm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

As for rape in computer games...that's more complex. Rape and Murder are both bad enough for me to capitilise them in this sentence. I just logged off Battlefield 3 Multiplayer where I racked up 42 kills, 4 of them from sneaky up on guys and killing them with a knife. I just find it odd that we view murder in computer games as being so normal but I myself find the concept of a computer game with a rape scene to be distasteful and I have no idea why.

This was something that struck me as odd in my own response too; I've happily racked up virtual 'kills' in a variety of games without a second thought but the idea of 'actively' playing out a rape is totally abhorrent to me, which does seem like an odd contradiction.

I was thinking about why this was (is it that I'm desensitised to murder, do I overreact to rape etc.) and I think that the difference is in how 'justifiable' I see these crimes in real life terms. By that I mean that in real life, I would consider that killing other people can be justified; self-defense, defending others and so on. I don't think the same can ever be said about rape.

Regarding the game being discussed here, I'm not averse to the idea that adult games contain adult scenes and themes and rape is a reality. A playable scenario would however bother me.

Kooli

EMF2010 wrote: »

I was thinking about why this was (is it that I'm desensitised to murder, do I overreact to rape etc.) and I think that the difference is in how 'justifiable' I see these crimes in real life terms. By that I mean that in real life, I would consider that killing other people can be justified; self-defense, defending others and so on. I don't think the same can ever be said about rape.

.

I'd almost say the complete opposite! I think the reason is that murder is seen as off-the-wall unjustifiable (unless it's war I suppose), and most people would be in unanimous agreement that they would never kill anyone except in extreme circumstances. And most of us could say with certainty that we don't know anyone who has murdered someone or been murdered, and we're all clear on that. If a murder happens, it's absolutely certain that the response from the authorities and the public will be clear-cut, unambiguous in condemnation. So killing in games is pure fantasy. There's no grey area for the majority of people of whether it's something they may one day commit or be the victim of themselves.

Rape on the other hand is something that is not very rare. And it's not just psychos who do it. Normal guys, who lead otherwise possibly good and moral lives, have done it. Many people even disagree about the definitions of it, and when it happens, there is a variety of responses, and a variety of levels of taking it seriously. I'd go as far as to talk about the presence of a 'rape culture'. So to have rape as part of a fun game when it's not universally and unambiguously condemned in real life (unless it's stranger rape of a woman who is sober, didn't dress provocatively, didn't do ANYTHING wrong), and when potentially some of the players are people who either will rape or be raped, is a very different thing.

Here's an interesting article for those questioning why a rape has to happen in the first place to give the character depth or a reason to be kickass:

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/culture/2012/06/lara-croft-and-rape-stories-breaking-down-bitch

Worth a read.

Scarinae

This blog post from the other day is an interesting perspective - it is from a male rape survivor. It does have a warning though that it could be potentially triggering for some people.

I've seen a lot of comments on these articles suggesting that blowback about rape is part of some sort of "feminist agenda." This bothered me for a number of reasons, the first being that I think the "feminist agenda" can be summed up by the phrase "we would really like it if you treated us like people." The second fact is that I, as a rape victim, identified with a lot of the parties feeling upset about these topics, and I think there's been a disconnect. See, this isn't about feminists being offended, this is about how the ill-use of sensitive topics can hurt people.

nadey

its only a game at the end of the day its not real

i know that rape does happen a very serious matter and its the lowest of the low for the women that go through it but all games have something in them that will offened someone in one way or another

it was like with the COD game and the sceen in the airport which was very graphic which in my opinion is much worse than lara croft nearly getting raped

be much worse if they actually did let her get raped and showed it in the game

the way i see if people dont like it then dont buy it out of sight out of mind

Ambersky

Excellent article Scarinae.
@nadey did you read the article posted just before your post

nadey

Ambersky wrote: »

Excellent article Scarinae.
@nadey did you read the article posted just before your post

no what article

whats it about