Worst crime committed by a main character?

helimachoptor

Quark says it best, Humans are enlightened until they feel threatened then everything goes out the window for survival

Goldstein

helimachoptor wrote: »

Quark says it best, Humans are enlightened until they feel threatened then everything goes out the window for survival

I love that line from Quark in The Siege of AR-558.

"Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes."

opinion guy

Goldstein wrote: »

I love that line from Quark in The Siege of AR-558.

"Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes."

Lol....funny cause its true.


Ok I have two.

1. Didn't Janeway trade anti-8472 nanites with the Borg in exchange for safe passage through Borg space ? Or something. Selling weapons to a warring race to commit genocide....pretty dark that.

2. Odo abandoned Kira and the Federation for months on end whilst he partook in the great big founder circle-jerk did he not ? Dereliction of duty and treason surely ?

IvySlayer

opinion guy wrote: »

1. Didn't Janeway trade anti-8472 nanites with the Borg in exchange for safe passage through Borg space ? Or something. Selling weapons to a warring race to commit genocide....pretty dark that.

2. Odo abandoned Kira and the Federation for months on end whilst he partook in the great big founder circle-jerk did he not ? Dereliction of duty and treason surely ?

In fairness to her, 8472 did threaten to destroy everything in their path.

Odo wasn't a Starfleet Officer nor a member of the Federation.

norrie rugger

IvySlayer wrote: »

In fairness to her, 8472 did threaten to destroy everything in their path.

Odo wasn't a Starfleet Officer nor a member of the Federation.

She could have waited till Borg were defeated and then see if 8172 were an actuak threat, then show them that she had the potential to defeat them. As it was she gave the Borg the means to wipe them out, interfering in a war just to get safe passage

Indricotherium

norrie rugger wrote: »

IvySlayer wrote: »

In fairness to her, 8472 did threaten to destroy everything in their path.

Odo wasn't a Starfleet Officer nor a member of the Federation.

She could have waited till Borg were defeated and then see if 8172 were an actuak threat, then show them that she had the potential to defeat them. As it was she gave the Borg the means to wipe them out, interfering in a war just to get safe passage

Where was the prime directive that day.

Then she has the gall to turn on Ransom when he commits a much lesser crime. Kettle pot or what.

I find janeway a hateful character. Up there with Kai Winn for the most hateful character in star trek IMO.

Both hypocritical leaders in situation with almost no oversight or control.

Both in that situation due to a calamitous series of events that wasn't their doing.

Both willing to lean on a set of ideals when it suits them, but completely ignore them when it goes the other way.

downwithpeace

norrie rugger wrote: »

She could have waited till Borg were defeated and then see if 8172 were an actuak threat, then show them that she had the potential to defeat them. As it was she gave the Borg the means to wipe them out, interfering in a war just to get safe passage

Janeway already knew 8172 planed to exterminate everything before she teamed up with the Borg.

norrie rugger

downwithpeace wrote: »

Janeway already knew 8172 planed to exterminate everything before she teamed up with the Borg.

They had not officially declared war on the Federation nor attacked any of their planets. The Borg, on the other hand, had attacked the Federation.
Voyager had a weapon that nullified the Species threat, so no immediate threat to Voyager/Federation. Only reason to interfere was to get a shortcut.

downwithpeace

norrie rugger wrote: »

They had not officially declared war on the Federation nor attacked any of their planets. The Borg, on the other hand, had attacked the Federation.
Voyager had a weapon that nullified the Species threat, so no immediate threat to Voyager/Federation. Only reason to interfere was to get a shortcut.

Kes had visions of dead Borg and the destruction of Voyager, then after Voyager had retrieved the crew from the damaged Cube Kes is told by 8472 something about lesser species will be destroyed which they repeat more then once. It was after that that the deal was made with the Borg.

norrie rugger

Kes had a vision is reason enough?

Also she had no need to help the Borg, as I said she could have waited till the Borg were gone and THEN shown 8472 that she had a weapon capable of destroying them. She chose to help the Borg and allow her ship safe passage

opinion guy

IvySlayer wrote: »

In fairness to her, 8472 did threaten to destroy everything in their path.

Odo wasn't a Starfleet Officer nor a member of the Federation.

Pedant. He had starfleet security clearance. And he definitely betrayed the station where he was posted.

norrie rugger wrote: »

Kes had a vision is reason enough?

:rolleyes:
Kes and her f**kin visions. And her feelings :rolleyes:

downwithpeace

You might want to watch the episodes again, Voyager was working on an Anti-Borg weapon not an Anti-8472 weapon, to make the Anti-8472 weapon Voyager needed the Borg.

Sonics2k

I would say most things Janeway did over the period of the series.

Whilst her intentions were 'good' in a manner of speaking, her mission to get the crew home at any cost, she was also the cause of increasing amounts of war, murder and so much more in the Quadrant.

nyarlothothep

Sonics2k wrote: »

I would say most things Janeway did over the period of the series.

Whilst her intentions were 'good' in a manner of speaking, her mission to get the crew home at any cost, she was also the cause of increasing amounts of war, murder and so much more in the Quadrant.

I blame the writers, and it plays into the ends justifying the means mentality/federation exceptionalism mindset. Basically if Janeway does something completely unethical it's ok because she represents the "good guys." Sci Fi Debris, as much as he's criticised in this forum, made a really good point about Janeway's character, basically she is presented as never being wrong, any alternative viewpoint is blocked out. So if anything she reflects badly on the writers!

Daith

opinion guy wrote: »

Pedant. He had starfleet security clearance. And he definitely betrayed the station where he was posted.

You mean the station that was under Dominion rule after Bajor's non-aggression treaty with the Dominion? How exactly did he betray a Dominion run station?

SeanW

Voyagers crew had sufficient cause to believe that Species 8472 was going to exterminate all life in the Milky Way Galaxy. They also had zero defenses against them as 8742s weapons (they were able to destroy entire planets and/or Borg armadas in a few seconds) and shields were dramatically superior.

komodosp

Genocide or not, I 'm not sure attempting to destroy the Borg is such a crime - In any other situation, in war, military targets are fair game.

But what do you do when the entire race is part of the military? (This was before Hugh created that splinter group)

Kirby

komodosp wrote: »

Genocide or not, I 'm not sure attempting to destroy the Borg is such a crime

Picard would disagree with you. But then, you mentioned hugh so I think you know that already.

Indricotherium wrote: »

Then she has the gall to turn on Ransom when he commits a much lesser crime. Kettle pot or what.

Thats not the same. At all.

Much lesser crime? Ransom was murdering an innocent species for his own gain. There was nothing innocent about 8472. They wanted to exterminate all life.

They were only humanized later on in the holodeck episode where they negotiated a truce with Janeway....... and to a lesser extent, the episode where 8472 is hunted by the hirogen and just wants to go home. Up until that point, they had just been portrayed as violent and bloodthirsty and not content with merely defeating the borg.

Indricotherium wrote: »

I find janeway a hateful character. Up there with Kai Winn for the most hateful character in star trek IMO.

Both hypocritical leaders in situation with almost no oversight or control.

Both in that situation due to a calamitous series of events that wasn't their doing.

Both willing to lean on a set of ideals when it suits them, but completely ignore them when it goes the other way.

Janeway always tries to do the right thing but she gets alot wrong and makes more mistakes than any of the other captains. Thats what makes her a better character than most of the characters in trek. She's flawed.

Voyager was in inferior show with an inferior cast of characters overall. But Janeway was a more realistic portroyal of what a captain would really be like. You would spend alot of time wrestling with doing the right thing and getting your crew home. You would bend the rules and then wonder if you are losing your humanity by doing so. You would be ridiculously protective of your crew. You would make a balls of everything occassionally because of it.

Kirk, Picard and Archer aren't realistic characters. Kirk's womanising is ridiculous for a captain and Picard and Archer are just too perfect. Even their flaws aren't realistic.

Sisko and Janeway were better captains because you saw them mess up occasionally. I liked that. Ask any DS9 fan and they will tell you that Sisko's obsession with Eddington was one of their favourite parts of the show, besides Garak . They will tell you they loved it when he lied and cheated to get the Romulans into the war. Sure when one of the main characters dies on him at the end of season 6....... he kind of abandons his post and wallows in a fit of depression. These are things that real people would do.

Star trek may be a show about a near perfect Utopian society, but a show with perfect characters isn't interesting.

Pride Fighter

Spock for appearing in the last film

Gary L

Are we talking main characters or Main federation officers?
That founder ordering the genocide on Cardassia has to take the cake.
If its just federation, maybe star fleet medical infecting odo to wipe out the link.

Myrddin

Gary L wrote: »

Are we talking main characters or Main federation officers?
That founder ordering the genocide on Cardassia has to take the cake.
If its just federation, maybe star fleet medical infecting odo to wipe out the link.

Wasn't that a section-31 operation, rather than an offical Starfleet Medical thing? Still a horrific thing to do, which is why I think it was 31

amen

Worfs extra judicial murder of Duras

legal according to Klingon society

Myrddin

amen wrote: »

legal according to Klingon society

Not only legal, but probably required under a warrior code too

helimachoptor

EnterNow wrote: »

Wasn't that a section-31 operation, rather than an offical Starfleet Medical thing? Still a horrific thing to do, which is why I think it was 31

Every government has a section 31, The US Government, British Government etc etc have their various dark agencies or black parts of agencies who can they get to do the really dirty work.

While it was section 31 that may have used the hypospray, Starfleet filled it up..

Cookie_Monster

Not a main character, but whatever admiral promoted Janeway to captain is pretty high up on the list of crimes against the galaxy.

IvySlayer

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Not a main character, but whatever admiral promoted Janeway to captain is pretty high up on the list of crimes against the galaxy.

They only promoted her so they could stick her behind a desk and not give her a new ship :P

Kurn

How did this thread become a Janeway bashing? Where are the mods?:rolleyes:

opinion guy

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Not a main character, but whatever admiral promoted Janeway to captain is pretty high up on the list of crimes against the galaxy.

Well if you want to play that game then surely whichever admiral decided crew members could bring their children on board.....I'm looking at you Dr Crusher:mad:

Myrddin

opinion guy wrote: »

Well if you want to play that game then surely whichever admiral decided crew members could bring their children on board.....I'm looking at you Dr Crusher:mad:

Wouldn't that be a Mr. Gene Roddenberry? Didn't he wan't that for TNG?

opinion guy

EnterNow wrote: »

Wouldn't that be a Mr. Gene Roddenberry? Didn't he wan't that for TNG?

Mr Gen Roddenberry wasn't a character. You could lay blame at him or the writers for everything in thread.

I don't think you get the point of the thread. In this thread we don't break the fourth wall!!!!:mad: