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Thornley

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    #122
    leftleg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭leftleg


    Again this is a total side issue to the thread title that is Gerry Thornley;

    There was a thread on boards a while ago titled " Is the Media Too Soft on Declan Kidney and the Irish Management"

    That got closed because it got side tracked onto the never ending topic that is ROG; please can we keep this one on topic;

    Analysing todays times articles, there is absolutely no mention of touhy starting ahead of DOC in anyway or that this change would hold any merit; its amazing really.


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    #123
    fitz
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 7,947 ✭✭✭fitz


    Having done some media interviews as a musician, it really can just be a case of everything being arranged as Justin says, it's really just putting people together to talk a lot of the time. You just turn up and answer/ask the questions, depending on what side of it you're on.

    Thornley's lack of criticism has nothing to do with the accreditation he gets or the IRFU.
    I think everyone needs to move off the whole IRFU point and the access. Assume access is provided, and there's no difference in the level of access that all accredited journos get, cause there probably isn't. Forget about all that, it's not relevant to Gerry's big Kidney-shaped blind spot.

    He's clearly getting a better feed of information from the access he gets along with everyone else, and it's only natural that people will be more open with someone they feel is "on their side" so to speak. That people will be willing to reveal more to him when they do speak is nothing to do with the IRFU, and more to do with a personal relationship where the guy who isn't getting the digs in gets on better with the people with the info.


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    #124
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    fitz wrote: »
    Thornley's lack of criticism has nothing to do with the accreditation he gets or the IRFU.
    I think everyone needs to move off the whole IRFU point and the access. Assume access is provided, and there's no difference in the level of access that all accredited journos get, cause there probably isn't. Forget about all that, it's not relevant to Gerry's big Kidney-shaped blind spot

    It doesn't matter WHAT he writes. He isn't keeling to the heel at all as some might have you believe. He doesn't have to.
    That's my point and why access, accreditation, criticism of the union etc was brought up in the first feckin place.

    As with all, he'll write what he wants because you will read it. Not because someone in the IRFU likes it. The people with the info are the IRFU. It is the IRFU who releases a team, information on the squad or of a point of view.
    If he p*sses the IRFU off with criticism, like other journalists, he still gets access. Personal relationships don't come into it. A Brian O'Driscoll interview or a Les Kiss isn't given because either of them say so, it is because it was requested and granted by the relevant person within the organisation.
    Thats how it works, like every other media-subject relationship.


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    #125
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    I just don't believe the IRFU would ever refuse access to an NUJ member or pro journo. It's not going to happen.


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    #126
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    *sigh* . . . I give up . . . lol


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    #127
    leftleg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭leftleg


    JustinDee wrote: »
    *sigh* . . . I give up . . . lol


    Thank you


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    #128
    fitz
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 7,947 ✭✭✭fitz


    JustinDee wrote: »
    It doesn't matter WHAT he writes. He isn't keeling to the heel at all as some might have you believe. He doesn't have to.
    That's my point and why access, accreditation, criticism of the union etc was brought up in the first feckin place.

    As with all, he'll write what he wants because you will read it. Not because someone in the IRFU likes it. The people with the info are the IRFU. It is the IRFU who releases a team, information on the squad or of a point of view.
    If he p*sses the IRFU off with criticism, like other journalists, he still gets access. Personal relationships don't come into it. A Brian O'Driscoll interview or a Les Kiss isn't given because either of them say so, it is because it was requested and granted.
    Thats how it works, like every other media-subject relationship.

    I know that Justin, I'm agreeing with you on this!
    I accept whatever you say on the process involved in the media relations side of things. In my previous post I was trying to move the conversation off the process side of things, because I think people need to accept that it doesn't have a bearing on Thornley's output.

    But my point is...when the interview happens, someone who hasn't been criticising the person he's talking to will probably get a better reception from the interviewee than the fella who's been ripping into them. At a personal level, that's just going to happen...

    I just reckon that Thornley is happy with the reception he's getting in his conversations with the Irish team setup, so he's not criticising for fear of compromising that rapport he's built up on a personal level. It's not some great conspiracy about getting his pass pulled by the IRFU, I think he's just worried about putting people's noses out of joint and not getting the same quality of chat out of them. Genuinely believe it's that simple.


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    #129
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    fitz wrote: »
    I just reckon that Thornley is happy with the reception he's getting in his conversations with the Irish team setup, so he's not criticising for fear of compromising that rapport he's built up on a personal level.

    I watch him interviewing players after games. He's definitely not dancing to anyone's tune but his own. Like most of the journalists, he's actually fine. Don't agree with everything he writes or says on the radio but hey, thats me. If I don't agree with a blurb or a spot on radio, I just read on or stop listening, provided of course it isn't libelous or slander, in which case I'll be straight on phone.

    There are one or two who post in these forums who know what its like in the media centre on match day, for example. They'll tell you the same about the folk who use it.


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    #130
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    JustinDee wrote: »
    I flipping well am not trying to muddy anything, "totallegend".
    Player/coach access is the same as anything else.
    I've explained the difference between a guy getting a press pass and a guy getting decent content for interviews. I can go over it again if it went over your head?
    JustinDee wrote: »
    Rubbish. Each accreditation is applied for match-to-match for each and every journalist, regardless of outlet. Everyone has "decent access", as I have already described.
    Not everyone does interviews or even wants to do interviews.
    I didn't say anything about the application process, I said the IRFU would never refuse accreditation to a journalist from an established paper. That is not rubbish, it's fact. If you can refute that, by all means do, I'd be fascinated to hear it.
    JustinDee wrote: »
    You've experience or some insight into this area, have you?

    No, I don't. On the other hand, I can comment on this with complete impartiality. Can you say the same?


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    #131
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    totallegend wrote: »
    No, I don't. On the other hand, I can comment on this with complete impartiality. Can you say the same?
    I'm not biased on the matter. I'm telling you exactly how it is. There isn't actually anything to it. Don't believe me? I'll live. Meanwhile, the relationship between media and union, management, player continues exactly as I've described it.


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    #132
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,010 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Justin, the issue on this thread seems that you are focused on the quantity of access provided while I haven’t seen you once address the quality point that is continually being raised by others.


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    #133
    mikedragon32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭mikedragon32


    Totallegend, leftleg: Enough. Please return to the topic of the debate.

    Justin has expressed pretty clearly that all journos get the same access. In my view, it is up to each of them how well they use this access. If Thornley gets better quality output from his time with players/staff, that is down to individuals and not the IRFU.


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    #134
    leftleg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭leftleg


    mikedragon32 wrote: »
    Totallegend, leftleg: Enough. Please return to the topic of the debate.

    Justin has expressed pretty clearly that all journos get the same access. In my view, it is up to each of them how well they use this access. If Thornley gets better quality output from his time with players/staff, that is down to individuals and not the IRFU.

    Mike please refer to post #122; i have attempted to get away from all this hence thanking JD for stopping;


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    #135
    fitz
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 7,947 ✭✭✭fitz


    mikedragon32 wrote: »
    Totallegend, leftleg: Enough. Please return to the topic of the debate.

    Justin has expressed pretty clearly that all journos get the same access. In my view, it is up to each of them how well they use this access. If Thornley gets better quality output from his time with players/staff, that is down to individuals and not the IRFU.

    This is exactly the point.

    Justin, my point isn't how he acts when interviewing, it's more about the (perhaps subconscious) level of relative comfort the interviewee will have speaking to someone who hasn't been criticising them in the media. Imo, I think Thornley's keeps his output tame in terms of criticism of his highest profile interviewees when it comes to Irish rugby so that he doesn't risk having them get a bit more guarded when talking to him. Which is fair enough, but it does nothing for the quality of his punditry on the Irish team.


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    #136
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    mikedragon32 wrote: »
    Totallegend, leftleg: Enough. Please return to the topic of the debate.

    Justin has expressed pretty clearly that all journos get the same access. In my view, it is up to each of them how well they use this access. If Thornley gets better quality output from his time with players/staff, that is down to individuals and not the IRFU.

    With respect Mike, I have been agreeing with this all along, please see posts 107, 118 and 130; I have been saying consistently that journos will always get IRFU accreditation for all events.

    I think this thread has been brought down a bad path and at the risk of an infraction for back-seat modding, perhaps the best thing to do is close it down.


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    #137
    mikedragon32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭mikedragon32


    totallegend wrote: »
    With respect Mike, I have been agreeing with this all along, please see posts 107, 118 and 130; I have been saying consistently that journos will always get IRFU accreditation for all events.

    I think this thread has been brought down a bad path and at the risk of an infraction for back-seat modding, perhaps the best thing to do is close it down.
    Thread is staying open.

    Any further conversation on the moderation can take place over PM.


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    #138
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    mikedragon32 wrote: »
    Justin has expressed pretty clearly that all journos get the same access. In my view, it is up to each of them how well they use this access. If Thornley gets better quality output from his time with players/staff, that is down to individuals and not the IRFU.

    Would it be fair to say all journos get the same official access?

    I'm thinking back now to when Gary Ella was in charge of Leinster and there were some articles highlighting player unhappiness with him. Nothing official or on the record though.

    "There has been some disgruntlement among the international contingent over the direction of the team, especially over the lack of time devoted to defence work in training."

    http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/anderson-saga-suggests-leinster-clearout-is-imminent-480022.html

    No name is mentioned for the quote above but someone had words with Fanning off the record. So I feel that the accreditation argument is going no where. It's what happens off the record is what is important and is Thornley cultivating this at the expense of his neutrality? I'm just some guy on an internet forum so have none of the facts so it's not for me to say :pac:

    On a different note check out the below article from the Munster website regarding Leinster and their coaches :eek:
    http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/3523.php


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    #139
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    On a different note check out the below article from the Munster website regarding Leinster and their coaches :eek:
    http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/3523.php

    Wow. Saucer of milk please! lol
    Funny read that.


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    #140
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Wow. Saucer of milk please! lol
    Funny read that.

    Ha I know I actually made the smiley eek face myself when I read it!


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    #141
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Good God. Pure professionalism from the great man. Little bit lost for words, reading that.


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    #142
    Otacon
    Registered Users Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    The time of the post is 11:56pm. I wonder was he hammered?


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    #143
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Otacon wrote: »
    The time of the post is 11:56pm. I wonder was he hammered?
    Do you know who wrote that?


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    #144
    Otacon
    Registered Users Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Do you know who wrote that?

    No idea. Not even sure of the gender of the writer. It was just the first thing I noticed was the time and felt it odd the someone posted an article four minutes before midnight.

    Also, my post was tongue-in-cheek TBH.


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    #145
    leftleg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭leftleg


    GerM wrote: »
    Good God. Pure professionalism from the great man. Little bit lost for words, reading that.

    Whose the great man??


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    #146
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Otacon wrote: »
    No idea. Not even sure of the gender of the writer. It was just the first thing I noticed was the time and felt it odd the someone posted an article four minutes before midnight.

    Also, my post was tongue-in-cheek TBH.

    I was actually asking a genuine question, as I was still abroad that year :)


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    #147
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    leftleg wrote: »
    Whose the great man??

    I would assume it's Pat Geraghty, the Munster media type chap. Not sure what his exact title is.


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    #148
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    leftleg wrote: »
    Whose the great man??

    I assume it's the current media manager who does most articles and has been part of the organisation for a decade. He has published a number of partisan articles which have been extremely one eyed.

    EDIT: What Dan said. He's the former Leinster media manager, jumped ship about a decade ago.


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    #149
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    GerM wrote: »
    I assume it's the current media manager who does most articles and has been part of the organisation for a decade. He has published a number of partisan articles which have been extremely one eyed.

    You mean Pat Geraghty?


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    #150
    Aidric
    Registered Users Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭Aidric


    Lol @ all the wannabe journalists on this thread. Mr Thornley is Ireland's foremost rugby journalist and has achieved that status on the back of excellent writing on the subject, not through writing pleasing pieces.


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    #151
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    Aidric wrote: »
    Lol @ all the wannabe journalists on this thread. Mr Thornley is Ireland's foremost rugby journalist and has achieved that status on the back of excellent writing on the subject, not through writing pleasing pieces.

    I like Thornley. He's a really good reporter and a brilliant writer. I always take his opinion heavy stuff with a pinch of salt anyway but his blooper this week in regard to Murray starting at Eden Park was very very lazy stuff


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