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Weston Airport

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  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Quebec Delta Mike


    Suits wrote: »
    What station was she on? Someone should have rung in and put her straight.

    I got blanked in Leixlip Village by a shop owner when I was buying some food one day because I had my NFC jacket on....I said "Hi" to draw his attention to me and he said cuttingly "oh I hear you dont worry, I cant help but hear you lot" so I put down the items and walked out.....was a bit petty and I was hungry too....:(

    They dont have planning permission to extend the runway to create a balanced field do they? I thought I heard that before but was unsure and would assume that would be the cause of much local saber rattling.

    To the locals all I could say is that Weston has a stupid nose abatement policy in order to keep you all happy, the airport authorities bend over backward to meet you demands and you just create more of them. Weston isnt going anywhere and those who think they can force it to close are sadly mistaken!

    It was Kildare FM I think, she's a regular there.

    Runway 25 ends at the county boundary with Kildare, so there is no "runway" in Kildare as such (just the stopway). So when huge efforts were made, consultations, planning applications, safety cases etc, to "move" or centralise the runway (a paint job actually, no tarmac laying involved), which would have increased safety both for pilots and nearby residents, all the serial objectors banded together, in case the sky fell in of course. They succeeded in having that effort to improve the infrastructure stopped, mainly on the basis that it involved a "new runway" being built in Kildare...pure poppycock!
    There were of course, the usual objections on the basis of " intensification" of the use of the airport. Which of course would have meant more jobs at Weston, are you following their logic...??....wait a minute...aren't there thousands of unemployed...?...oh well...

    I hope you passed on your experience in that shop to the others at NFC! Boycott the grumpy bast**d.

    QDM


  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Suits


    It was Kildare FM I think, she's a regular there.

    Runway 25 ends at the county boundary with Kildare, so there is no "runway" in Kildare as such (just the stopway). So when huge efforts were made, consultations, planning applications, safety cases etc, to "move" or centralise the runway (a paint job actually, no tarmac laying involved), which would have increased safety both for pilots and nearby residents, all the serial objectors banded together, in case the sky fell in of course. They succeeded in having that effort to improve the infrastructure stopped, mainly on the basis that it involved a "new runway" being built in Kildare...pure poppycock!
    There were of course, the usual objections on the basis of " intensification" of the use of the airport. Which of course would have meant more jobs at Weston, are you following their logic...??....wait a minute...aren't there thousands of unemployed...?...oh well...

    I hope you passed on your experience in that shop to the others at NFC! Boycott the grumpy bast**d.

    QDM

    That's Ireland I suppose...fear what you dont know and ignore what you dont want to see!
    If there was an exec airport at Weston the locals may well like it and irony is I'm sure local TDs would use the economic boost to the area in their next campaign!:pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭Su Campu


    I'm totally with the pro-Weston comments on this one and second the opinions of Xlyer, QDM and Suits. Weston is an important facility for the area, and is the only alternative to Dublin Airport for GA. The photos of visiting aircraft posted here in recent days are evidence of that.

    I do feel though that it is important to point out that on Sunday, while enjoying lunch in the restaurant there, I did see Citation EI-MED starting its takeoff run from the far end of the stopway (i.e. using R07). I thought it was strange in that I have always been instructed to apply full power only at the threshold to 07.


  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Quebec Delta Mike


    Thousands of people come to Weston every week for various reasons, whether just to look at the aircraft, or take a flight. People have a natural fascination with aviation. Check out the happy faces getting off the very successful helicopter flights over the city on a Saturday/Sunday...It seems to me that of the many who love what goes on at Weston, very few of them voice this on forums (or council chambers). So we are left with the whingers and objectors, who make the most noise, and get politicos on their side for a few votes. It's so sad...

    QDM


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭Davidth88


    It's only since this thread started and the info came out that I looked at the charts etc.

    It seems a bit mad to me ( as a lapsed PPL ) , basically there is a whole chunk of runway there that can only be used as a stop area for runway 27 .

    So Aircraft taking off from 07 can't use it , but if they could wouldn' that mean they would be higher/ further away from the houses / built up area ? Talk about shooting themselves in the foot.

    Or have I got things wrong ? ( wouldn't surprise me )


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,320 ✭✭✭jasonb


    Yep, the stopway at the 'end' of Runway 25 ( or the 'start' of Runway 07 ) isn't to be used for take offs or landings. Aircraft do taxi on it ( to get to the threshold of Runway 07 for example ) but that's it. Oh, and it's obviously there if there's an emergency while taking off or landing on Runway 25.

    I suppose that if an aircraft on Runway 07 went to full power at the start of the stopway, and not at the proper threshold, it would be in the air earlier up the runway, and therefore higher when going over the end of the runway / boundary with the nearby buildings / fields.

    However, I'd imagine that some of the objectors ( rightly or wrongly ) assume that a longer runway means bigger and noisier aircraft? That's just an assumption though, I'm not well versed in the objector's main complaints, or any ( perceived or otherwise ) illegal goings on.

    Personally, as someone who recently got their PPL, I love Weston. It's great being near the aircraft, it always seems to have people visiting just to watch, and it's nearby to me for GA. As already stated, Dublin is a joke due to costs, so Weston is really the best bet. It has great facilities and there are a lot of procedures in place to try to keep the noise to a minimum.

    Of course, I'm sure those procedures are sometimes not adhered to by individuals ( either through lack or understanding or caring ) but in my experience those mistakes are not accepted and people will be told what they should be doing.

    It's all a shame, it's really in everyone's interest that Weston is a successful business that brings people, money and activities into the area. But people on both sides seem to be entrenched now...

    J.


  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Suits


    I believe jet aircraft line up on the stopway and taxi into position for a rolling take off at high speed and full power.......*cough*

    The locals assume a longer runway means an a380 may swoop overhead. Many of them dont know anything about aviation and they fear that commercial jets like 737s, A320s etc may start to use the airfield. They dont understand the mechanics of the industry etc and lack of knowledge breeds fear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭CharlieOscar


    As an in-training PPL'er, I can see and understand arguments from both sides.

    But a solution to all the rants on here (both from pilots, enthusiasts and "whingers as they are so kindly referred to/or just local residents"), might be instead of random gossip as to what is happening, to publish a document either here or on the Weston Executive Airport website, to outline what the intentions of the airport are, what type of traffic is in operation, when this traffic is operating (08:00 - 19:00), what are the plans for development and growth of the airfield. What are the plans to extend if any, just put it all in black and white.

    For god sake, the aviation industry is so attention to detail anyway, I dont see how or why it has not been done to date. It is not like there is any competition within 100 miles (except Dublin) that can compete in anyway with the airport/facilities that Weston has (not underminding clubs or other airfield at all), so it is not as if the airfield owners would need to keep any commercial secrets. It might actually prompt or promote the local residents to assist in its development/growth and make GA a more pleasant experience for all.

    Just my two cents.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Suits


    As an in-training PPL'er, I can see and understand arguments from both sides.

    But a solution to all the rants on here (both from pilots, enthusiasts and "whingers as they are so kindly referred to/or just local residents"), might be instead of random gossip as to what is happening, to publish a document either here or on the Weston Executive Airport website, to outline what the intentions of the airport are, what type of traffic is in operation, when this traffic is operating (08:00 - 19:00), what are the plans for development and growth of the airfield. What are the plans to extend if any, just put it all in black and white.

    I see your point and it would be an ideal solution, but the issue that weston has is that the people they deal with in the local area are unreasonable and wont listen when they are told the facts. They let fear and hysteria overtake them and cant be talked down. If weston issued a document that said "We plan to move the runway to a more central position thus allowing a larger clearance of obstacles etc", the locals would claim it is so Capt Jean Luc Picard could land the Enterprise there or something. They assume any change from the current layout would mean large jets. This situation exists because of ill informed dickheads in the area filling people's heads with idle gossip and fear mongering amongst locals who are trying to have their cake and eat it as far as house price:airfield proximity goes.
    You then get TDs stoking these fears so as to create an issue out of nothing and make it look like they are doing something about it for the community. It's utter nonsense!

    Bottom line is no matter what weston do it will never be good enough. A shower of opportunists bought cheap houses under a flight path and then complain when the aircraft make noise. Like building a beach house and then complaining that the ocean keeps you awake.....or those people who bought cheap land on a flood plain and complained when their houses flooded after heavy rain, even though the people who build Newgrange and the people in the Stone age knew it was a bloody flood plain!!:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,505 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    If someone who claims they're being disturbed by the airport that was already there when their house was built is willing to sell it to me for, oh, maybe 120k for a 4 bed? I'll buy it. As clearly its somehow valueless, going on the whining that gets emitted - from the houses!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭xflyer


    Charlie Oscar as a matter of fact that is exactly what Weston tried to do but the reasonable considered truthful approach to objectors just doesn't work.

    An example, at one airfield the objectors scoured the regulations and decided that once the runway was lenghtened that locals would be unable to build houses in the vicinity because of obstacle clearance rules. This refused to go away even when the IAA pointed out it would practically have to be a skyscraper at the end of the runway for it to be an issue. Similarly fears were stoked up that it would be turned into a 24 hour operation with the likes Ryanair flying in and out, despite the location being completely unsuitable, the cost of setting it up astronomic and the fact that a half empty international airport was only ten minutes flying away.

    Nothing will convince them otherwise. Local TDs and councillors invariably take the side of the objectors because quite frankly despite the fact that an airfield may be beneficial to the community they are more interested keeping their votes and will quite cynically use it to garner popularity.

    But the biggest problem is usually the simple fact that the whole campaign is often organised by a single individual or small group often with a grudge. They keep the pot boiling and will manufacture complaints out of nowhere. The lengths they go to are extraordinary. In one particular case shotguns were produced and used near the airfield with a clear implication. Nothing 'illegal' of course.............

    Where that doesn't exist airfields are often popular locally to the extent that people will turn out in droves of a Sunday just see what's happening at 'their' airfield.

    But that could change overnight if one person sets out on a campaign to close it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭Kenny2012


    C-GBCO TBM700 Lorne Brett Motors Ltd
    G-CEDG R-44 PJ Barnes
    M-CICO FA50EX City Air Services dep at 17.20
    N458LM EMB500 Advocate Holdings / Capital Holdings 164

    Pictures
    C-GBCO http://www.flickr.com/photos/namcys11/7297061154
    G-CEDG http://www.flickr.com/photos/namcys11/7289283232
    M-CICO http://www.flickr.com/photos/namcys11/7289227132
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/namcys11/7289227692
    N458LM http://www.flickr.com/photos/namcys11/7289130612

    Ken


  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭LeftBase


    Funny I just joined and I am straight into an issue I am passionate about.

    Those who surround Weston have no right to complain about aircraft as there was a runway there before most of the houses. Simple as for me I'm afraid!


  • Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭DannyD


    Su Campu wrote: »
    Don't know of any updates, but I was using it yesterday and it's sad to see its decline in the past 6 months, with so many aircraft removed. Still, nice to walk around Padraig Harrington's GIII!
    Nice photo. Does Padraig own this? I looked up the registration and it's registered to SIMS STUART P, WALNUT CREEK, CA.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭Davidth88


    Kenny2012 wrote: »
    M-CICO FA50EX City Air Services dep at 17.20

    Ken

    Thanks . I saw the Falcon as I drove past at 3:30ish . Always one of my fav aircraft.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭xflyer


    DannyD wrote: »
    Nice photo. Does Padraig own this? I looked up the registration and it's registered to SIMS STUART P, WALNUT CREEK, CA.
    You have to be an American citizen or resident alien to officially own an FAA registered aircraft. There are companies which facilitate this arrangement. They officially own the aircraft but the beneficial owner can be anyone.

    It's entirely possible that Harrington doesn't own it at all. It may be leased or some other arrangement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Quebec Delta Mike


    Well, here we go again, today's (June 2nd issue) Liffey Champion, Page4, has TD Catherine Murphy off on her personal vote catching crusade against Weston again....

    Whether there's any truth in the headline, "Weston Airport is sold, but new owners still unidentified", is debatable, but her attitude is apalling. Instead of welcoming new investment, and hopefully new jobs, she is siding with the complainers and whingers, the same old same old....:(

    Before any new owners take over, she is setting out her stall, along with I am sure the "Everything about Weston is bad" brigade, who will pop up soon enough...

    There is no unauthorised use of any runway taking place, ask the IAA, Ms Murphy, they oversee it's licence, and should know. There are very strict noise abatement measures in place, and used by all aircraft. The locals reporting "extreme levels of noise pollution" should not whinge to her, but report it to the IAA. What do they expect living next to an airport?

    Get off your personal high horse, and get this country working again, it is after all what you are supposed to be elected for.

    QDM.


  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭LeftBase


    Well, here we go again, today's (June 2nd issue) Liffey Champion, Page4, has TD Catherine Murphy off on her personal vote catching crusade against Weston again....

    Whether there's any truth in the headline, "Weston Airport is sold, but new owners still unidentified", is debatable, but her attitude is apalling. Instead of welcoming new investment, and hopefully new jobs, she is siding with the complainers and whingers, the same old same old....:(

    Before any new owners take over, she is setting out her stall, along with I am sure the "Everything about Weston is bad" brigade, who will pop up soon enough...

    There is no unauthorised use of any runway taking place, ask the IAA, Ms Murphy, they oversee it's licence, and should know. There are very strict noise abatement measures in place, and used by all aircraft. The locals reporting "extreme levels of noise pollution" should not whinge to her, but report it to the IAA. What do they expect living next to an airport?

    Get off your personal high horse, and get this country working again, it is after all what you are supposed to be elected for.

    QDM.

    Yet another top class watershed story from everyone's favorite broadsheet: The Liffey Champion!!

    When I flew a circuit of EIAB in my PPL training I was actually quite uneasy at not having to make a 300' right turn and then a turn left and a loop over and around and then a barrel roll to land backwards!:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭Xpro


    She could do with a few emails and help her get off her high horse:D
    catherine.murphy@oireachtas.ie


  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭LeftBase


    Xpro wrote: »
    She could do with a few emails and help her get off her high horse:D
    catherine.murphy@oireachtas.ie

    Does she quote in any of her material anybody who actually knows aviation? Do CAWA quote anyone who knows anything? Or do they just make stuff up and guess what the law is or what they think it should be?

    Some tosh for you here : Children 'in fear' of low-flying planes


    RESIDENTS living near a small aerodrome were given leave by the High Court yesterday to serve notice on a flying school to prevent dangerous over-flights.

    Ms Justice Mary Laffoy told Mr Brendan Kilty SC, for Combined Action on Weston Airport Ltd in Lucan, Co Dublin, that the court was giving leave for the organisation to serve notice of the proposed injunction on two defendants, National Flight Centre Ltd and head of training and aircraft owner Kieran O'Connor.

    The residents' group is also seeking an injunction restraining the defendants from trespassing on their property at Weston Park, Hillcrest, Kew Park, Cooldrinagh, Cooneyboro.

    In an affidavit, Hugh Collendar said the object was to take action to prevent aircraft from posing a danger to the life and property of over 4,000 residents.

    Mr Collendar added that for some time individual residents had complained about dangerous flights as low as 100ft and 150ft, causing fear, upset and stress. The complaints had been met with platitudes.

    Between 12.04pm and 2.01 pm on November 13, said Mr Collendar, 47 aircraft flew over Weston Park and Cooldrinagh at a height of approximately 150ft over houses.

    He was personally aware of several instances where house and car alarms of residents were set off due to low-flying aircraft and children were "very frightened" of low-flying aircraft.

    John Maddock


    Excuse my french and pun but they can take a flying **** to themselves!

    If ANYONE was at 150ft over those houses they'd be in a go around straight off NOBODY would be that low nomatter how bad they are!! You pass over them at 500ft ish at lowest on the QNH and that is roughly 350ft give or take. How do they know the height of these aircraft anyhow??


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9 DeltaDev


    As a newbie here, I am encouraged by the support shown for Weston as a GA airfield. I have taken some flights from there and have spend many hours with the kids in the car asleep while I watch the planes fly in and out. I am also sickened to hear about political opportunism by Catherine Murphy. On another note; has skytrace pulled out of Weston. I see on their website that they have moved their base to Waterford. I took a few lessons from them last year and found them good. I also found NFC good. Hope this is not a sign of greater demise in Weston and that new owners (whoever they may be) can get it going again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭xflyer


    How recent is that Leftbase? Obviously some November. It's almost laughable. Taken at face value it seems 47 separate aircraft arrived in a two hours flew very low over the unfortunate local residents causing terror among the children and setting off alarms all over the place.

    It must have been quite a sight! And that's November, what must it be like in the Summer?

    But this is the kind of nonsense that these people spit out. Amazingly it's gets taken seriously in some quarters.

    Another example was where pilots were accused of deliberately flying low over people's houses in order to intimidate them. No doubt while laughing evilly, mu ha ha!


  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭LeftBase


    xflyer wrote: »
    How recent is that Leftbase? Obviously some November. It's almost laughable. Taken at face value it seems 47 separate aircraft arrived in a two hours flew very low over the unfortunate local residents causing terror among the children and setting off alarms all over the place.

    It must have been quite a sight! And that's November, what must it be like in the Summer?

    But this is the kind of nonsense that these people spit out. Amazingly it's gets taken seriously in some quarters.

    Another example was where pilots were accused of deliberately flying low over people's houses in order to intimidate them. No doubt while laughing evilly, mu ha ha!

    It's a year or 2 old I think, but I'd imagine it still applies to these people.

    A C152/172 landing at weston with low power setting wouldnt not make that much noise and would not set off alarms.

    Dunno what it is with these kids, my friends and I would have loved a few low flying aircraft over our houses. The kids there must be a shower of cowards!:confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 291 ✭✭bombs away


    Actually that particular article is from 2004 -

    http://www.flyinginireland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=448

    so not sure if that still applies.


    That said I would appeal to everyone to e-mail the afformentioned TD to correct her on her errors some of which could be deemed as defamation against the facility and it's employee's due to their many inaccuracies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭LeftBase


    bombs away wrote: »
    Actually that particular article is from 2004 -

    http://www.flyinginireland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=448

    so not sure if that still applies.


    That said I would appeal to everyone to e-mail the afformentioned TD to correct her on her errors some of which could be deemed as defamation against the facility and it's employee's due to their many inaccuracies.

    Oh ok I see, didnt know it was that old!

    Does anyone have a link to any of her actual stances/arguments?


    Oh Here's some lies and falsehoods here! http://www.maynooth.org/?p=36136


  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Quebec Delta Mike


    From before she became a TD, Ms Murphy has championed the cause against Weston. Her knowledge of aviation law or planning law applicable to Weston is being fed to her by vested interests, see her comment on "flouting the laws of the land" in the aforementioned article. She hasn't a clue really.

    But her profile now is more worrying, as she can use her position to threaten the jobs and activities at Weston. She should NOT be let away with this abuse of power. So I support any email action suggested above. I suggest rational, and technical arguments be used against her campaign.

    The 2004 article above is way out of date now, as things have moved on substantially. Since the upgrading to Class C airspace, and provision of full ATC services, there are no loopholes for errant pilots to get through in relation to noise abatement, these issues have all been adequately addressed and put to bed. So the argument of " excessive noise pollution" is totally false and spurious, the general public must be made aware of this.

    Any further thoughts...?

    QDM.


  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭LeftBase


    I emailed her addressing some of the issues she raised.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭xflyer


    I should also point out that the current Minister for Transport has taken an anti airfield stance too. You have to wonder about people being fit for the job.

    Also Murphy is an independant which of course means she has very little influence other than to stir things locally.

    One ironic point to make is that the antis objected to the proposal that the runway be re drawn so that the runway is centred on the paved area. This would have the result that approaching aircraft would be considerably higher in the vicinity of the houses. Not only that of take off to the east they would also be higher. So no more so called low flying.

    This would answer a lot of the genuine fears among some residents. But naturally this was rejected because in reality the low flying allegations are simply part of a campaign to get the Weston closed permanently. That's what this is all about. If the so called noise and low flying issues were resolved to the satisfaction of people who have genuine issues, whether they be real or not. It would not suit the purposes of the organiser behind this campaign.

    That's why being reasonable and bending over backwards to placate objectors never actually works.


  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭LeftBase


    xflyer wrote: »
    I should also point out that the current Minister for Transport has taken an anti airfield stance too. You have to wonder about people being fit for the job.

    Also Murphy is an independant which of course means she has very little influence other than to stir things locally.

    One ironic point to make is that the antis objected to the proposal that the runway be re drawn so that the runway is centred on the paved area. This would have the result that approaching aircraft would be considerably higher in the vicinity of the houses. Not only that of take off to the east they would also be higher. So no more so called low flying.

    This would answer a lot of the genuine fears among some residents. But naturally this was rejected because in reality the low flying allegations are simply part of a campaign to get the Weston closed permanently. That's what this is all about. If the so called noise and low flying issues were resolved to the satisfaction of people who have genuine issues, whether they be real or not. It would not suit the purposes of the organiser behind this campaign.

    That's why being reasonable and bending over backwards to placate objectors never actually works.

    I recently pulled into the housing estate to see what it was really like there. A few 152s a 172 and NFC's Twin went over and apart from a slight rumble from the Twin (quieter than the reverser noise within a 5 mile radius of DUB) I heard very little because....what I did hear was a constant drone from the N4....the 6 lane motorway just beside the estate was droning out the aircraft noise.....by far the noisiest thing in the area!

    So much for "peaceful" neighborhoods..:rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭Xpro


    Locals are making it as if it was a nuclear station right beside their houses.
    God forbid if the same people lived in swords/santry area, can you imagine heavy jets overflying 24/7.
    They'd be all hanging on the ropes.

    This is just typical irish scenario, never happy. If it rains you want sun, if its sunny you want rain!!


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