The Thylacine Thread

Adam Khor

http://news.discovery.com/animals/tasmanian-tiger-devil-120418.html

Same could happen to the Tasmanian Devil

Adam Khor

Were Australian thylacines killed by dingoes?

This is a study about the comparative size of dingoes and mainland thylacines (it seems that dingoes were larger on average than female mainland thylacines but smaller than Tasmanian thylacines), and whether direct predation by dingoes may have caused or accelerated the extinction of the marsupial in Australia.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0034877

dlofnep

Well - Dingoes were thought to have been introduced to Australia by humans when they arrived. It is certainly possible that competition for the same food sources hurt it's population. Not sure about completely killing it off however... I'd attribute that to humans.

Adam Khor

dlofnep wrote: »

Well - Dingoes were thought to have been introduced to Australia by humans when they arrived. It is certainly possible that competition for the same food sources hurt it's population. Not sure about completely killing it off however... I'd attribute that to humans.

Same here, I seriously doubt the dingoes were the only culprits. I didn´t know Tasmanian thylacines were larger than dingoes, tho- that bit surprised me.

dlofnep

The curious thing is how large Australia is, but how dependent animals are on it's coastline for survival. Had that not been the case, it probably would still be alive today - out of the reaches from humans.

Adam Khor

dlofnep wrote: »

The curious thing is how large Australia is, but how dependent animals are on it's coastline for survival. Had that not been the case, it probably would still be alive today - out of the reaches from humans.

Is there really something as "out of the reaches from humans"?

dlofnep

Adam Khor wrote: »

Is there really something as "out of the reaches from humans"?

Emperor penguins, and those weird fish that live in the extreme depths of the ocean. Anything else is fair game unfortunately..

Adam Khor

dlofnep wrote: »

Emperor penguins, and those weird fish that live in the extreme depths of the ocean. Anything else is fair game unfortunately..

I think those animals even are affected by human activity too The blobfish is one of those weird deep-water fish, and it seems that its endangered due to trawling. Ironically, it is endemic to Australia and Tasmania...

animan

Adam Khor wrote: »

I think those animals even are affected by human activity too The blobfish is one of those weird deep-water fish, and it seems that its endangered due to trawling. Ironically, it is endemic to Australia and Tasmania...

Dont really have anything to contribute to the thread but dont think many people would mind if the blobfish died out

dlofnep

animan wrote: »

Dont really have anything to contribute to the thread but dont think many people would mind if the blobfish died out

I would, he's the best fish.

animan

I'd say its in with a shot at ugliest animal in the world

Adam Khor

animan wrote: »

I'd say its in with a shot at ugliest animal in the world

More than half of humanity is uglier. :P

I personally find the fish adorable, in its own quirky way. Besides, it looks quite a lot better in its natural habitat, where it actually has a shape.

animan

A shape would help I'd say

Galvasean

That fish needs some conditioner. Poor blobfish

For an article that is about one species driving another to extinction, the pair in that picture in the OP sure look like they're having a grand aul time!

Capt'n Midnight

so far we haven't killed any species with world wide distribution , but they are relatively few and can evade us so not saying much


did the thylacines hunt in packs or alone ?

a pack of dogs would make short work of most similar sized predators




angler fish are even uglier

and what was that yoke that ate fish longer than itself , so much that they'd be found on the surface bloated by the meal that decomposed faster than it could be digested.

Galvasean

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

so far we haven't killed any species with world wide distribution , but they are relatively few and can evade us so not saying much

Rats, Roaches, Ravens... We'll never get them. The secret is in the R....

Adam Khor

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

did the thylacines hunt in packs or alone ?a pack of dogs would make short work of most similar sized predators

As far as I know, they were loners, although this may actually have been due to their low numbers- some hunters said that thylacines would sometimes work cooperatively to drive prey into an ambush, and captive thylacines were extremely docile and even tolerated children well, much like dogs, which has led some to believe that they may have lived in family groups or wolf-like packs (that is, a breeding pair aided by non-breeding relatives). This may have been the case in mainland Australia or even in Tasmania before the thylacines were decimated- eventually they were so rare that they had more trouble to find a mate.

But even as loners it seems they did defend themselves succesfully against dogs- there are recorded cases of them killing attacking dogs. It was guns, poison and snares that finished them eventually.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

and what was that yoke that ate fish longer than itself , so much that they'd be found on the surface bloated by the meal that decomposed faster than it could be digested.

That would be the Black Swallower:

Capt'n Midnight

yeah that's the greedy little critter

judging by the angle thylacines could open their mouths they might have a similar MO. to sabre toothed cats ?

Adam Khor

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

yeah that's the greedy little critter

judging by the angle thylacines could open their mouths they might have a similar MO. to sabre toothed cats ?

Hardly... the reason why sabertooths could open their jaws that much is because of the extreme length of the fangs which couldn´t be used properly without a very wide gape. In the case of the thylacine, it has been said once and again that it killed by "crushing the skull". The teeth were blunt and more apt for crushing than slashing- and there's a rather gory report of a thylacine killing a dog like that:

""A bull terrier once set upon a Wolf and bailed it up in a niche in some rocks. There the Wolf stood with its back to the wall, turning its head from side to side, checking the terrier as it tried to butt in from alternate and opposite directions. Finally the dog came in close and the Wolf gave one sharp, fox-like bite, tearing a piece of the dog’s skull clean off, and it fell with the brain protruding, dead."

So I suposse the wide gape would probably help them "grab" the entire skull of even their largest prey for a crushing bite.
Then again, other marsupials such as opossums and the Tasmanian devil also can open their jaws very wide...

Tasmanian devil:

Galvasean

Good post Adam. I have nothing really to say though, except...

Adam Khor wrote: »

That picture is frigging hilarious!

Adam Khor

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2483670/Could-Tasmanian-tiger-roaming-islands-forests-British-scientists-join-new-hunt-extinct-creature.html?ico=sciencetech^headlines

Galvasean

Hope they do find it, but alas, I feel it is to late for the thylacine...

Mickeroo

Galvasean wrote: »

Hope they do find it, but alas, I feel it is to late for the thylacine...

Hey, if there's giant polar bears wandering the himalayas I'm not ruling anything out from now on

Rubecula

I am afraid I agree with Galvasean on this. It would be wonderful but in my own opinion so unlikely it is as close to impossible as you can get. As much chance of finding a stegosaurus on your front lawn.

Adam Khor

Rubecula wrote: »

I am afraid I agree with Galvasean on this. It would be wonderful but in my own opinion so unlikely it is as close to impossible as you can get. As much chance of finding a stegosaurus on your front lawn.

I do think it's unlikely, but not THAT unlikely...

Wibbs

Tasmania is a big place with a lot of wild regions, rarely visited by people, so it's possible. I don't doubt a few survived the official last one in the zoo, but for how long and whether they're still around is up in the air.

That all said, I'd not just look in Tasmania. IIRC they existed in mainland Australia in the past, up until Europeans showed up, though small in number, so there may be a hidden population there. Another place they may still survive is in New Guinea.

Here's an interesting clip by a Spanish wildlife film crew back in the 90's and one ye've maybe not seen before. Shot in Australia. They thought "dingo" at first, but it looks odd for a dingo. Sadly no shots of it's back, but the head looks very strange for a dog.
Go to around 45 seconds for the clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwOMoC40q6k

Adam Khor

I watched the video like this :eek:

But then I thought there was something just way too canid about the creature. I don´t think it's a thylacine at all.

Here's a still from the video you linked to, with the animal looking at the camera, along with a still from an actual thylacine from another video:



Even considering that the animal in the Spanish video is apparently mangy, I think the shape of the head is different, and it has smaller eyes and larger ears proportionally than the thylacine's. It looks too canid to me... maybe a fox? (I think they're an important pest in Tasmania as well as in Australia?)

dodderangler

Looking at a program about the sightings of chupacabra and the description and the body of the animal that was knocked down looks a lot like a thylacine.

Owryan

As much as i would love to see a population being discovered. Wouldnt a small population mean more inbreeding and all the defects that come with it ? So would their gene pool even be viable for IVF if science wanted to increase their numbers.

Besides the worst possible outcome if they are re discovered could well be man trying to interfere with them .

Adam Khor

dodderangler wrote: »

Looking at a program about the sightings of chupacabra and the description and the body of the animal that was knocked down looks a lot like a thylacine.

Guess I know what you mean; those "chupacabras" are mangy canids (coyotes, coyote-dog hybrids etc) and without their bushy tails they do look a bit like the thylacine although they're rather unfortunate looking...

Owryan wrote: »

As much as i would love to see a population being discovered. Wouldnt a small population mean more inbreeding and all the defects that come with it ? So would their gene pool even be viable for IVF if science wanted to increase their numbers.

Besides the worst possible outcome if they are re discovered could well be man trying to interfere with them .

Guess ur right... if they are indeed out there, they must be few and near extinction all the same. But I bet any zoo would love to keep one, and maybe they could be used to attract attention of the public to the situation of other endangered animals... I bet they would be safer in a zoo than in the wild these days...

Adam Khor

Yet another search for living thylacines is about to start:
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/scientists-kick-off-search-for-tassie-tiger-in-far-north-queensland-20170604-gwk42w.html

Wibbs

Crossing all my digits.... I would love to know they were still out there, somewhere. Though I'd add places like New Guinea to the list. Apparently local tribes have said they've seen them when shown pictures.

Adam Khor

Indeed, they call it "dobsegna". And New Guinea was home to other interesting species in prehistoric times. Wouldn´t it be cool if they found, say, a Protemnodon tumbuna, aka short-legged, non-hopping, rainforest-dwelling kangaroo? 

(Weirdly, the tall guy is also a Protemnodon, except from a species that could hop AND was taller than a man).

Wibbs

Adam Khor wrote: »

Indeed, they call it "dobsegna".

You know, I just knew you would know the name involved. #bows

Adam Khor

Interesting paper on the pre-Pleistocene fossil record of thylacinids and how the Tasmanian tiger/wolf came to be:

https://peerj.com/articles/7457/

Adam Khor

Although not new (it was found in 1966), as far as I can tell this spectacular find is little known and seldom mentioned. The thylacine remains have been preserved in an Australian cave for 4000 to 5000 years!





http://www.naturalworlds.org/thylacine/palaeontology/prehistoric/prehistoric_range_4.htm

The specimen is very interesting because its from a mainland thylacine- which went extinct before the Tasmanian population, shortly after the introduction of the dingo by humans.

Adam Khor

Can we really clone the thylacine?

Adam Khor

Previously unknown, preserved thylacine pelt discovered in New Zealand:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-29/tasmanian-tiger-thylacine-colourful-pelt-from-nz-reveals/12597682

igCorcaigh

Tasmania

https://twitter.com/collieennis/status/1363863655150927888?s=19

Adam Khor

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Tasmania

https://twitter.com/collieennis/status/1363863655150927888?s=19

Hopefully will turn out to be true, but I am very cautious about this. Tasmania has high roadkill incidence. It would beg the question of how thylacines went for so long without ever being hit by a car...

Wibbs

https://twitter.com/s_maunder/status/1364080020877053954

Sadly it appears to be misidentification. I still reckon if any are around it'll be in somewhere like New Guinea where they roamed once and is far less crowded with people and roads etc.

Adam Khor

Wibbs wrote: »

https://twitter.com/s_maunder/status/1364080020877053954

Sadly it appears to be misidentification. I still reckon if any are around it'll be in somewhere like New Guinea where they roamed once and is far less crowded with people and roads etc.

I agree.

Meanwhile, a bit overshadowed by the thylacine fiasco, the black browed babbler (Malacocincla perspiscillata) a bird thought extinct for 180 years has just been rediscovered alive. That's abour 100 years longer than the thylacine's been officially extinct!
It was previously known only from a specimen collected in Borneo in the 19th century:



The live bird: