Alan Shatter Dishing Out Citizenship Like Confetti

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 1:47pm #1

Metro Éireann has learned that the Passport Office doubts that some of the documents supplied with the applications, such as birth and marriage certificates, are genuine – despite being accepted by the Department of Justice in granting them citizenship.

A spokesperson for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade told Metro Éireann that the Passport Office “is obligated under the Passport Act to satisfy itself as to the authenticity of documentation provided to establish the identity of applicants.

“Authenticating documents can be complicated in the case of a number of countries due to different factors, including variations in document quality, variations in document standardisation; and, the lack of a range of security features in documents.

“In order for the Passport Office to satisfy itself as to the authenticity of documents it can be necessary to carry out additional checks,” the spokesperson added.

http://metroeireann.com/article/naturalised-nigerians-up-in-arms,3322

Wtf is this Shatter character up to? Giving citizenship to thousands of people, whom the Passport Office believe are not whom the say they are?

Since talking office he has, in no particular order;

- Lashed out circa 30,000 passports.

- Stated that he plans to give early release to thousands of prisoners.

- Came up with a hair brained scheme to allow anyone, settle with their families in Ireland, if they invest a measly 75 large.

- Free access to Ireland for anyone who visits the UK "for the Olympics".

:mad:

Nodin · 13-05-2012 1:49pm

Did you read the article....?

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 1:50pm

Nodin wrote: »

Did you read the article....?

I did, did you?

lividduck · 13-05-2012 1:51pm

Nodin wrote: »

Did you read the article....?

Of course he didn't just more of the same, what would you expect from the OP concerned!

Raging_Ninja · 13-05-2012 1:52pm

OP reading fail.

Thousands of Nigerians recently granted citizenship in Ireland have had their applications for Irish passports returned.

Nodin · 13-05-2012 1:54pm

IrishAm wrote: »

I did, ......

You're sure now? Didn't just see "Nigerians" there, have a flashing mental image of large black fellows and panic?

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 1:54pm

lividduck wrote: »

Of course he didn't just more of the same, what would you expect from the OP concerned!

Ive read it after I had a discussion about it with somebody who closely works with, in a professional capacity, the ORAC.

mikom · 13-05-2012 1:56pm

IrishAm wrote: »

Alan Shatter Dishing Out Citizenship Like Confetti

*Stamps on glass*

"Mazel Tov!"

galwayrush · 13-05-2012 1:56pm

IrishAm wrote: »

Ive read it after I had a discussion about it with somebody who closely works with, in a professional capacity, the ORAC.

A very selective conversation...:pac:

lividduck · 13-05-2012 1:57pm

IrishAm wrote: »

Ive read it after I had a discussion about it with somebody who closely works with, in a professional capacity, the ORAC.

Reading alas does not equate to comprehending!

Nodin · 13-05-2012 1:57pm

IrishAm wrote: »

Ive read it after I had a discussion about it with somebody who closely works with, in a professional capacity, the ORAC.

An anecdote concerning somebody 'WHO KNOWS' this early in a 'de immigrants' thread?.....you're goin at break-neck pace here.

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 1:57pm

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

OP reading fail.

Metro Éireann has learned that the Passport Office doubts that some of the documents supplied with the applications, such as birth and marriage certificates, are genuine – despite being accepted by the Department of Justice in granting them citizenship.

The PO doubts documents the DoJ accepted are genuine.

Why the hell were they granted citizenship if there were doubts about their documentation?

Nodin · 13-05-2012 2:01pm

IrishAm wrote: »

The PO doubts documents the DoJ accepted are genuine.

Why the hell were they granted citizenship if there were doubts about their documentation?

Or the Passport office is requiring a second level of verification for nigerians specifically. Hence having to go to the Embassy to get them stamped.

The King of Moo · 13-05-2012 2:01pm

IrishAm wrote: »

The PO doubts documents the DoJ accepted are genuine.

Why the hell were they granted citizenship if there were doubts about their documentation?

Did you not read the part at the beginning of the article about the Passport Office returning their applications (which, oddly, you didn't quote)?

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned that: I'd have thought you would've been happy about that.

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 2:05pm

The King of Moo wrote: »

Did you not read the part at the beginning of the article about the Passport Office returning their applications (which, oddly, you didn't quote)?

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned that: I'd have thought you would've been happy about that.

They have already been issued citizenship. They are Irish citizens. Should it not have been the DoJ asking them to verify their documentation before issuing citizenship and not the PO?

It seems the DoJ are undermining the integrity of Irish citizenship and not conducting the proper background checks.

If you cant prove who you say you are, you shouldnt be allowed stay in the Irish state, never mind become a fucking citizen of it.

Battered Mars Bar · 13-05-2012 2:06pm

He could do with a hair cut aswell

Nodin · 13-05-2012 2:09pm

IrishAm wrote: »

They have already been issued citizenship. They are Irish citizens. Should it not have been the DoJ asking them to verify their documentation before issuing citizenship and not the PO?

It seems the DoJ are undermining the integrity of Irish citizenship and not conducting the proper background checks.

...or that, as I pointed out, there's not harmony between two government departments on the level of verification required. Given that the procedure is not to get new documents but have them stamped by the Nigerian embassy, that seems to be the case here.

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 2:19pm

Nodin wrote: »

...or that, as I pointed out, there's not harmony between two government departments on the level of verification required. Given that the procedure is not to get new documents but have them stamped by the Nigerian embassy, that seems to be the case here.

It does not seem to be the case at all. It seems to be the case the DoJ has issued citizenship to thousands of people whom are not whom they say they are.

Do you honestly not see a problem with this?

Hand on heart, forget your ideology for a minute, do you honestly think all is above board and its just a breakdown in communication between two departments?

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 2:20pm

lividduck wrote: »

Of course he didn't just more of the same, what would you expect from the OP concerned!

What the hell does that mean?:rolleyes:

Coal1978 · 13-05-2012 2:24pm

I think he was great in Star Trek, better he's got a proper job now and not still doing those stupid All Bran ads.

Nodin · 13-05-2012 2:28pm

IrishAm wrote: »

It does not seem to be the case at all. It seems to be the case the DoJ has issued citizenship to thousands of people whom are not whom they say they are.?

Theres no evidence of that thus far. The passport office has requested the senders have the documents stamped by the nigerian embassy, and thats it.

IrishAm wrote: »

Hand on heart, forget your ideology.

Whats my ideology?

IrishAm wrote: »

for a minute, do you honestly think all is above board and its just a breakdown in communication between two departments?

...thats what I typed and nothing has come to the fore in the interim.

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 2:32pm

Nodin wrote: »

...thats what I typed and nothing has come to the fore in the interim.

We can come back to this in a few months time and I shall be proved right, these people entered the country using false documentation.

They wont be able to prove they are who they say they are.

Before you put that down as purely anecdotal, or my opinion, I am willing to put my cash where me gob is.

Nodin · 13-05-2012 2:34pm

IrishAm wrote: »

We can come back to this in a few months time and I shall be proved right, these people entered the country using false documentation.

They wont be able to prove they are who they say they are.

Before you put that down as purely anecdotal, or my opinion, I am willing to put my cash where me gob is.

No, you'd mess up the cash. A sock would suffice.

Now - whats my ideology?

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 2:36pm

Nodin wrote: »

No, you'd mess up the cash. A sock would suffice.

Now - whats my ideology?

Open borders.

Ellis Dee · 13-05-2012 2:39pm

Is it a race between him and his cronies in Jerusalem to see who can put most Irish passports in circulation?:):):)

Nodin · 13-05-2012 2:41pm

IrishAm wrote: »

Open borders.

I've never advocated open borders, here or anywhere else. Very few do, because its rather a naive idea. It would seem that you see what you want to see.

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 2:42pm

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Is it a race between him and his cronies in Jerusalem to see who can put most Irish passports in circulation?:):):)

He wasnt MoJ when the Israeli Irish passport scandal came to light.

It was Saint Lenihan iirc.

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 2:44pm

Nodin wrote: »

I've never advocated open borders, here or anywhere else. Very few do, because its rather a naive idea. It would seem that you see what you want to see.

The Irish state practically practices it.

Nodin · 13-05-2012 2:46pm

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Is it a race between him and his cronies in Jerusalem to see who can put most Irish passports in circulation?:):):)

Now, now. They aren't all in it together.

And besides, wasn't our Lord and Saviourone of them as well.

galgar · 13-05-2012 2:47pm

Why the need to get documents stamped by the Nigerian Embassy if the applicants have pleaded asylum here as refugees. Surely their former Embassy would be the last place they would go to.

Nodin · 13-05-2012 2:49pm

IrishAm wrote: »

The Irish state practically practices it.

A stupid remark with zero basis in fact. Perhaps if you concentrated more on the provable than whats in your imagination, you wouldn't be misreading articles and wrongly attributing views to people who've never held them.

Nodin · 13-05-2012 2:51pm

galgar wrote: »

Why the need to get documents stamped by the Nigerian Embassy if the applicants have pleaded asylum here as refugees. Surely their former Embassy would be the last place they would go to.

Theres no mention of who, what or why as regards to these people being granted citizenship. Nor are exact numbers given.

senordingdong · 13-05-2012 2:53pm

Another said that other nationalities are not being asked to certify their documentation, and accused the Passport Office of discrimination.

It's good to see the PO upholding its rules but with the above quote I doubt this stand will last too long.

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 2:53pm

Nodin wrote: »

A stupid remark with zero basis in fact.

How many of the failed asylum seekers(90% whom claim asylum are refused) have been deported?

Any lad with a bit of intelligence could come and work here, just by taking advantage of one of the many, many loopholes.

Even if he has dodgy paperwork, he may still receive citizenship.

Joke shop of a country.

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 2:55pm

Nodin wrote: »

Theres no mention of who, what or why as regards to these people being granted citizenship. Nor are exact numbers given.

Seeing as only a few hundred work permits have ever been issued to Nigerians we can deduct that many of them were indeed former asylum seekers.

Nodin · 13-05-2012 2:58pm

IrishAm wrote: »

Seeing as only a few hundred work permits have ever been issued to Nigerians we can deduct that many of them were indeed former asylum seekers.

....I'd hestitate to guess what you "deduct", given this thread.

juan.kerr · 13-05-2012 3:02pm

Does he not realise we have enough of them here already?

Nodin · 13-05-2012 3:06pm

juan.kerr wrote: »

Does he not realise we have enough of them here already?

We've enough of who?

bwatson · 13-05-2012 3:07pm

IrishAm wrote: »

http://metroeireann.com/article/naturalised-nigerians-up-in-arms,3322

- Free access to Ireland for anyone who visits the UK "for the Olympics".

:mad:

Can you really be critical of something like this?

Thousands of people from North America, Australasia etc will be travelling to London and will be spending money on accommodation, food, memorabilia, and various other tourist related things. Surely making it as easy as possible for these tourists to take a short plane ride and do the same sort of thing in Ireland is not something to complain about?

lividduck · 13-05-2012 3:07pm

IrishAm wrote: »

How many of the failed asylum seekers(90% whom claim asylum are refused) have been deported?

Any lad with a bit of intelligence could come and work here, just by taking advantage of one of the many, many loopholes.

Even if he has dodgy paperwork, he may still receive citizenship.

Joke shop of a country.

Joke shop of a thread, to be expected by this op.
Have you looked up the word "intelligence"

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 3:10pm

bwatson wrote: »

Can you really be critical of something like this?

Thousands of people from North America, Australasia etc will be travelling to London and will be spending money on accommodation, food, memorabilia, and various other tourist related things. Surely making it as easy as possible for these tourists to take a short plane ride and do the same sort of thing in Ireland is not something to complain about?

North Americans, Australians etc are already non visa required nationals.

They can already come here as they please.

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 3:18pm

Nodin wrote: »

....I'd hestitate to guess what you "deduct", given this thread.

Let me explain. To gain citizenship one has to be resident in Ireland for at least five years.

Time spent as a student doesnt count, so we can deduct that they werent students.

Marriage to an EU citizen didnt, pre 2008, give one right to remain in Ireland, so we can deduct that they were not married to EU citizens, as the judgement was issued just four years ago.

Only five hundred work permits have ever been issued to Nigerians. So we can deduct that the majority of them werent on work permits.

What other option is there, but the asylum route?

Mena · 13-05-2012 5:05pm

IrishAm wrote: »

Only five hundred work permits have ever been issued to Nigerians. So we can deduct that the majority of them werent on work permits.

What other option is there, but the asylum route?

757, but don't let fact checking stop you. Oh, and that excludes numbers from '99 to '03 where the stats weren't collected. How many in total were issued from '99 to '03 you ask? 148 564, of which any number could have been from your target demographic.

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 5:37pm

Mena wrote: »

757, but don't let fact checking stop you.

Wrong.

Mena wrote: »

Oh, and that excludes numbers from '99 to '03 where the stats weren't collected. How many in total were issued from '99 to '03 you ask?

Wrong 99-02.

Mena wrote: »

148 564, of which any number could have been from your target demographic.

Wrong. Circa 60,000 from 99-2002.

From here; http://www.djei.ie/labour/workpermits/statistics.htm

Nigerian asylum Applications lodged worldwide between 1998-2005 and their success rate(source UNHCR).

Country/ No of As applicants/ Recognition rates as refugees
Austria/ 7,879 / 0.3%
Belgium/ 1,074 / 0%
Denmark/ 351 / 2.3%
France / 6,025 / 2.0%
Germany / 5,387/ 0%
Spain/ 7,514 / 0.1%%
Switz/ 3,041 / 0.7%
UK / 8,509 / 0.3%
Italy/ 758/ 2.3%
Sweden/ 1,345/ 0%
Netherlands/ 2,607/ 0.6%
USA / 1,134/ 27.5%

Ireland/ 20,701/ 0.6%

According to the DoJ, 80% of all Nigerians claim to be without any form of travel documents when making their claim for asylum here.

But, yeah. I am sure that none of our new citizens were former asylum seekers. Even if the figures point to the contrary.:D

Nodin · 13-05-2012 5:43pm

IrishAm wrote: »

....................

According to the DoJ, 80% of all Nigerians claim to be without any form of travel documents when making their claim for asylum here.

But, yeah. I am sure that none of our new citizens were former asylum seekers. Even if the figures point to the contrary.

Why are you so fixated on Nigerians?

RobbingBandit · 13-05-2012 5:51pm

You do all realize these guys have signed up for operation "Human Shield" to gain their citizenship, in the event of a war they will be our Canon Fodder.

Benny_Cake · 13-05-2012 6:23pm

IrishAm wrote: »

Ive read it after I had a discussion about it with somebody who closely works with, in a professional capacity, the ORAC.

ORAC only deals with asylum seekers who are applying for refugee status. They do not have any power regarding citizenship, or other forms of immigration. So I would suggest that you wouldn't attach too much credibility to what this person said.

Mena · 13-05-2012 6:32pm

IrishAm wrote: »

Wrong.

Yes you are. Check again. My figures include renewals which is in each case, a totally new application. You can download the spreadsheets from '04 to '12.

IrishAm wrote: »

Wrong 99-02.

Correct, you're wrong again. Go take another look, read it slowly this time.

IrishAm wrote: »

Wrong. Circa 60,000 from 99-2002.

From here; http://www.djei.ie/labour/workpermits/statistics.htm

There's no "Circa" anything about it. Let me help you with the math:

Year - WP Applications
1999 - 6250
2000 - 18006
2001 - 36436
2002 - 40321
2003 - 47551

Total = (keep up here now) 148 564.

Your own link gives this data to you for pete's sake.

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 7:03pm

Mena wrote: »

Yes you are. Check again. My figures include renewals which is in each case, a totally new application. You can download the spreadsheets from '04 to '12.

Your figures include renewals so they are wrong. If I get my passport renewed, I am still one person. If a lad gets his work permit renewed, he is still one person too.

You are double counting people. Its dishonest

Benny Cake wrote: »

ORAC only deals with asylum seekers who are applying for refugee status. They do not have any power regarding citizenship, or other forms of immigration. So I would suggest that you wouldn't attach too much credibility to what this person said.

I am well aware of that. But seeing as the vast, vast majority of Nigerians resident in Ireland were once asylum seekers, 80% of them with no documentation and only 0.6% of them being deemed above board, it comes to no surprise to people who dealt with them in a professional capacity.

From 1999-2005 20,701 Nigerians applied for asylum in Ireland. Each and every asylum seeker is given a PPS number to avail of medical care, their weekly payments, etc. etc. From 2000-2005(No figures available for 1999) 19,056 PPS numbers were issued with PPS numbers.

The figures dont lie.

Sources(Welfare.ie, CSO, UN, MoJ).

Mena · 13-05-2012 7:06pm

IrishAm wrote: »

Your figures include renewals so they are wrong. If I get my passport renewed, I am still one person. If a lad gets his work permit renewed, he is still one person too.

You are double counting people. Its dishonest

You stated that only 500 work permits had ever been issued to Nigerians. I've proved you wrong.

The fact that you ignore the rest of my post confirms you're talking crap or just copy pasting from someone on p.ie.

IrishAm · 13-05-2012 7:11pm

Mena wrote: »

You stated that only 500 work permits had ever been issued to Nigerians. I've proved you wrong.

The fact that you ignore the rest of my post confirms you're talking crap or just copy pasting from someone on p.ie.

You are double counting people. One person remains one person, no matter how many times they renew their visa. You are either being deliberately obtuse, or a bit touched.

And I copy and pasted **** all.

Alan Shatter Dishing Out Citizenship Like Confetti

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