Maria Divine Mercy

scidive

Gumbi wrote: »

And what will happen wont be this.

Can I ask you something? Lets imagine, for a moment, that all MDM suggested would happen, does happen. How are you to determine that it was prophecy, or coincidence?

Gumbi

If each prophecy came through and within the time frame predicted some people will still think everything is a coinsidience no matter how bazzare the odds are.
The same with the theory of evolution people believe that through a bazzare series of chances and an incalculable odds created life,the planets and us today out of nothing.
The question to ask is why based on the evidence before them people don't believe and put it all down to coinsidence.

The Jammy dodger

scidive wrote: »

Gumbi

If each prophecy came through and within the time frame predicted some people will still think everything is a coinsidience no matter how bazzare the odds are.
The same with the theory of evolution people believe that through a bazzare series of chances and an incalculable odds created life,the planets and us today out of nothing.
The question to ask is why based on the evidence before them people don't believe and put it all down to coinsidence.

Because their invisible God is called ''coincidence''?

fatmammycat

scidive wrote: »

Gumbi

If each prophecy came through and within the time frame predicted some people will still think everything is a coinsidience no matter how bazzare the odds are.
The same with the theory of evolution people believe that through a bazzare series of chances and an incalculable odds created life,the planets and us today out of nothing.
The question to ask is why based on the evidence before them people don't believe and put it all down to coinsidence.

You genuinely don't understand evolution if you think this.

The Jammy dodger

fatmammycat wrote: »

You genuinely don't understand evolution if you think this.

Please don't allow us to sit in ignorance, teach us everything you know.

fatmammycat

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

Please don't allow us to sit in ignorance, teach us everything you know.

No, I'm not your monkey. Open a book, use your computer, read, learn. Start with Jerry A Coyne's: Why Evolution is True and proceed from there.

Gumbi

scidive wrote: »

Gumbi

If each prophecy came through and within the time frame predicted some people will still think everything is a coinsidience no matter how bazzare the odds are.
The same with the theory of evolution people believe that through a bazzare series of chances and an incalculable odds created life,the planets and us today out of nothing.
The question to ask is why based on the evidence before them people don't believe and put it all down to coinsidence.

Of course, because the chances if it being coincidence are much more likely than the chances of it being divinely prophetic.

Benny_Cake

Mod note:We have one extremely long megathread devoted to evolution and creationism, we don't need a second!

newmug

Would you's trolls feck off? What has anything you've posted got to do with MDM?

Anyway:rolleyes:. The latest message said that a new "sun" will appear. If I wake up some morning, and a new star has been born in close proximity to Earth, whether through miracle or science, I will definately pay more attention to these messages.

totus tuus

I would suggest reading the following article and the reason why MDM's site should come with a warning of it's own.

Onesimus

totus tuus wrote: »

I would suggest reading the following article and the reason why MDM's site should come with a warning of it's own.

I would not be so quick to believe in these ''self styled theologians'' on the internet either totus. It seems that the gullibility can work both ways.

-- God suffers in heaven. The website says: "I am God of the Most High who, because of the free will I have given to all of My children, will have to suffer enduring pain until the New Paradise on earth evolves." This is a tissue of absurdities. God, being perfect, possesses perfect happiness in heaven and does not suffer. Plus, this smacks of millenarianism.

God suffers in a mystical way. All the theologians from St.Thomas Aquanis to present day can confirm this. This self styled theologian has obviously just read into the text of the messages.

Be careful there. I have seen many more errors in this persons ''article'' that I could run through but I simply don't think its worth the bother.

totus tuus

There are many doctrinal errors in MDM's messages for sure Onesimus, that alone is enough to give it a wide berth IMHO.

Fr. Owen Gorman a contributor to Alive wrote an article on MDM condemning her messages.

Onesimus

totus tuus wrote: »

There are many doctrinal errors in MDM's messages for sure Onesimus, that alone is enough to give it a wide berth IMHO.

I don't know the messages enough to believe either side ( for or against them ). But I am usually open and just believe until proven otherwise.

Onesimus

Fr.Owen can write articles all he wants. Remember that not just priests but Bishops and even Cardinals are known to protest apparitions that proved to be real in the end like Fatima for example.

totus tuus

But MDM claims that saying certain prayers absolves a person from sin, only God can do that through the Ministry of the Priesthood!

Why remain anonymous? At least we know who the Medjugorje seers are!

Onesimus

totus tuus wrote: »

But MDM claims that saying certain prayers absolves a person from sin, only God can do that through the Ministry of the Priesthood!

Why remain anonymous? At least we know who the Medjugorje seers are!

Show me the message? Anyone can ask God for forgivness of sins and be absolved by the high priest himself, the Church teaches that one must approach the Confessional for full absolution of ''mortal'' sins.

This is perhaps what MDM is referring to.

Some seers are open and that is their mission and some seers are unknown and that is their humble mission from the Lord.

Stop trying to speculate and just allow some breathing space here and be open. I am not saying be gullible and not to be on the lookout but just to be humble, open yet prudent about what seers you read. Don't discard of them from your own reasoning. Allow time for the CDF to have a look at them too.

totus tuus

Note that this total absolution is not Church approved!

http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/jesus-reveals-plenary-indulgence-for-total-absolution/


Jesus does not grant plenary indulgences. He has delegated the dispensing of indulgences to Church authorities. They decide what pious practices merit a plenary indulgence, and the conditions attached to it.

An indulgence is the extra-sacramental remission of the temporal punishment due, in God's justice, to sin that has been forgiven, which remission is granted by the Church in the exercise of the power of the keys, through the application of the superabundant merits of Christ and of the saints, and for some just and reasonable motive.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm

angeleyes

totus tuus wrote: »

Note that this total absolution is not Church approved!

http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/jesus-reveals-plenary-indulgence-for-total-absolution/


Jesus does not grant plenary indulgences. He has delegated the dispensing of indulgences to Church authorities. They decide what pious practices merit a plenary indulgence, and the conditions attached to it.




http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm

I think both Jesus and God the Father can do what they like.

scidive

totus tuus wrote: »

Note that this total absolution is not Church approved!

http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/jesus-reveals-plenary-indulgence-for-total-absolution/


Jesus does not grant plenary indulgences. He has delegated the dispensing of indulgences to Church authorities. They decide what pious practices merit a plenary indulgence, and the conditions attached to it.




http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm

Totus

On one of the messages it states that the keys of the church have being handed back persumably out of reach of the future false prophet.

"Pray for My beloved Pope Benedict. He is surrounded by very powerful enemies of God. Gluttons for power and control of My Church. Prayer can help delay his imminent departure when he will be forced to leave The Vatican as foretold. Pray, pray, pray for this period in time for it will be the darkest ever to befall my sacred servants, Bishops, Cardinals and all true followers of Mine. The keys of Rome will now be handed back to God, the Almighty Father."

totus tuus

angeleyes wrote: »

I think both Jesus and God the Father can do what they like.

Jesus established a Church for a reason, and passed all Authority to it, I doubt He would circumvent His Church!

angeleyes

totus tuus wrote: »

Jesus established a Church for a reason, and passed all Authority to it, I doubt He would circumvent His Church!

Yes but that Church or Authority is corrupt and a lot of evil works within.

Have a read of this message
http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/warning-to-clergy/

totus tuus

angeleyes wrote: »

Yes but that Church or Authority is corrupt and a lot of evil works within.

Have a read of this message
http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/warning-to-clergy/

Are you for real??

Jesus said that the gates of Hell would not prevail! I would much prefer Sacred Scriptures, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium over MDM, thank you very much.

My advise is to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and cease believing unapproved self-professed prophets.

I'm done here!

Onesimus

totus tuus wrote: »

Are you for real??

Jesus said that the gates of Hell would not prevail! I would much prefer Sacred Scriptures, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium over MDM, thank you very much.

My advise is to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and cease believing unapproved self-professed prophets.

I'm done here!

Sounds like your a victim of the American radical anti-mystical mindset. Most probably procured by hanging around on the CAF forums which are full of Americans who are very ''legal this'' and ''legal that'' and ''if it is not approved of and stamped one cannot believe in it'' and many of them also seem to be the worlds greatest canon lawyers when in reality they have neither studied such a subject under the appropriate guidance but pick away at it like protestants do scripture.

Totus, I agree that perhaps something might not seem right with some of the messages above, in particular the one about the keys being taken back. But you have to remember that the apostles often listened to what our Lord said and took him literally and thus got him all wrong. Jesus still speaks sometimes literally and sometimes symbolically too.

But usually if a seer gives nothing but messages of doom and gloom and gets involved in ''politics'' then its HIGHLY unlikely to be true. Anyway, lets not be ''frightened'' of being simple and believing in something that may turn out to be false, God is not going to give us a couple of extra years in purgatory for doing so, in fact I am sure he would be delighted in our naive and simple approach. yet all of that said, he would of course want us to be prudent according to our ability to do so.

totus tuus

Onesimus wrote: »

Sounds like your a victim of the American radical anti-mystical mindset. Most probably procured by hanging around on the CAF forums which are full of Americans who are very ''legal this'' and ''legal that'' and ''if it is not approved of and stamped one cannot believe in it'' and many of them also seem to be the worlds greatest canon lawyers when in reality they have neither studied such a subject under the appropriate guidance but pick away at it like protestants do scripture.

Totus, I agree that perhaps something might not seem right with some of the messages above, in particular the one about the keys being taken back. But you have to remember that the apostles often listened to what our Lord said and took him literally and thus got him all wrong. Jesus still speaks sometimes literally and sometimes symbolically too.

But usually if a seer gives nothing but messages of doom and gloom and gets involved in ''politics'' then its HIGHLY unlikely to be true. Anyway, lets not be ''frightened'' of being simple and believing in something that may turn out to be false, God is not going to give us a couple of extra years in purgatory for doing so, in fact I am sure he would be delighted in our naive and simple approach. yet all of that said, he would of course want us to be prudent according to our ability to do so.

I take offence with your first statement, implying that I am anti-mystical, whereas I truly believe in Medjugorje , and I have been there twice, once with my mother and another time with my son. At least those seers never said the Church was corrupt, and they obeyed the Holy See. I have tons of books by mystics that are approved by the Church, St Faustina being one of them.


In contrast to MDM comdemning the Clergy as corrupt, our Lady's message to IVAN on the 29th Dec. (yesterday)

THE VIRGIN MARY ASKS FOR PRAYERS FOR BISHOPS, PRIESTS

The clergy was on the Virgin Mary's mind when she appeared to visionary Ivan Dragicevic in his private chapel in Medjugorje on November 29.

"Our Lady invited us to pray for her beloved bishops and her beloved priests because they follow the way of the Gospel, and not that of the world" Ivan told afterwards.

I don't want to see vunerable people get taken in.

angeleyes

totus tuus wrote: »

I'm done here!

I thought you were done but you are still posting on this thread. No one is asking you to believe or accept - that is beauty of the gift of free will but for those of us who do read the messages from Maria please respect that too.

newmug

I said it before and I'll say it again - I'm not convinced, but I'll remain open minded. Aint buying no book though.

totus tuus

angeleyes wrote: »

I thought you were done but you are still posting on this thread. No one is asking you to believe or accept - that is beauty of the gift of free will but for those of us who do read the messages from Maria please respect that too.

I responded to a post by Onesimus which was directed at me.

I would suggest you read visionaries and visions by Fr. John A. Hardon, who is a candidate for Canonisation.

http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Mysticism/Mysticism_001.htm

Onesimus

totus tuus wrote: »

I take offence with your first statement, implying that I am anti-mystical, whereas I truly believe in Medjugorje , and I have been there twice, once with my mother and another time with my son. At least those seers never said the Church was corrupt, and they obeyed the Holy See. I have tons of books by mystics that are approved by the Church, St Faustina being one of them.


In contrast to MDM comdemning the Clergy as corrupt, our Lady's message to IVAN on the 29th Dec. (yesterday)


I don't want to see vunerable people get taken in.

There are literally tons of different seers even approved ones in which Our Lady warns that many Bishops and priests are corrupt and heading for the road to ruin and doing a lot of damage in her sons church.

I was not implying that you are anti-mystical like most of the fundamentalist right wing Catholics in America are. I was simply saying if you are not careful it is very easy to catch their anti-mysticism disease. The problem with these anti-mystics is that they cry ''oh I don't have to believe in it because it is not approved'' and they also say ''I don't have to believe in it because it is approved either''.

They are permitted not to believe both ways, which in the end tells me they are just dismissing it because they just don't want to listen to it or are playing the ''theologian'' and joining in on the stoning most of the time

Its important to be prudent yes, but when the messages say the church is corrupt its probably referring only to those who are part of the Church and are corrupt themselves.

This does not mean that Our Lady does not love them or ask us not to pray for them, but that corrupt clergy really is a reality.

You done some venting you see beforehand when you couldn't respond to some posts by just saying ''Meh I stick to what is approved'' yet we know you do not stick to what is approved by believing in Medjugorje.

Medjugorje by the is one of my favourite apparitions to date.

Doc Farrell

Here's a quote from Jesus' Mum according to this 'prophet':

" They, the New World Order will also be in prayer in their own vile churches. These churches exist everywhere although they have been set up in secret. They hold sacrifices and pay homage to their idol Satan. These cults are rampant now and all share the one ludicrous goal, to control mankind. They will do this by attempting to control your money, food supplies and energy."

In another piece on Ireland the Blessed Virgin Mary talks about Ireland and the dangers of socialism and a 'secular dictatorship'. Did anyone tell Enda Kenny that he's a secular dictator? The last time I checked he was voted into power.

It's a scam created by a one world conspiracy nut who is delighted by all this attention and can sell millions of books from it. It is deeply offensive to real Catholics and as heretical as its possible to be. The book is for sale in the book shops around Ireland too.

This is much much worse than that feel good nonsense 'the secret', this fake prophet is a parasite, feeding off the fears and paranoia of the gullible.

And if anyone thinks that the Pope or his bishops are masons then they deserve to lose their money to this con job. I hear there's a property mogul in Achill who runs a prayer house and is also looking for donations.

When the world ends and how is not ours to know.

Keylem

Many authentic apparitions and/or messages from Heaven have been accompanied by miracles as a sign that they are from God, Lourdes, Fatima, Akita, etc. Even though Medjugorje is still under investigation, there have been numerous miraculous events and physical healings that have been documented. I can't say that I've ever heard of any associated with MDM.

georgieporgy

I don't want to upset people who may be enthusiastic about MDM or whatever other visionary that may be doing the rounds.
What we do know is that for every one authentic case (Knock, Fatima, Lourdes etc) there are many counterfeit ones which attempt to distract from the real thing.
(sort of like counterfeit christian denominations I suppose)
The devil's strategy is to get you off the narrow path and any other road will suffice. The better the counterfeit the more harm it does.
Most of these are a distinct danger to the Faith (serious occasion of sin) and many devotees are woefully ignorant of their own Faith. Though they may be well intentioned, they remain culpably ignorant.
The great deceiver has been at this a long time and can put on an angel of light costume anytime he wants.
I'm happy to stick with the old boring stuff. Pope, Church,10 commandments, 7 sacraments, prayer, penance,fasting, do your daily duties etc. Yummy!:)