Krav Maga

Gordian

Hi,

just wondering if anyone has done the 12 week (or weekend) Krav Maga course recently ? If so, was it good ? I'm thinking of doing this myself and just wondering what people thought of it. Thanks.

Hanley

What do you hope to get out of it?

Gordian

I'd like to be able to feel that I would be able to defend myself agianst a random person if I was ever attacked in the street. I suppose like fire insurance, I hope I would never need it, but I'd like to have just in case.

BigDuffman

Gordian wrote: »

I'd like to be able to feel that I would be able to defend myself agianst a random person if I was ever attacked in the street. I suppose like fire insurance, I hope I would never need it, but I'd like to have just in case.

Perfect reason. KM is a fantastic self defence system. There is no ritualistic nonsense, very effective.

Oink

I did a course, and I was so impressed that I pushed my girlfriend to do one as well. They didn't just teach the technique, but a frame of mind as well.
They had some sort of boxing/fitness class going as well, and I can promise you that anyone who sticks to it will get seriously fit. I was in bits afterwards - in a good way.

Michael 09

I have done the weekend course and also some of the 12 week stuff. I found the 12 week course to be very effective, teaches new skills and also changes your mindset. I recommend it.

Gordian

Thanks for all your replies. That sounds like the course I want to do alright.

Mauricmo

Did it with a friend last year, both of us thought it was fantastic.

Doug Cartel

This thread is quite interesting. If you started it in the martial arts and self defence forum, you would have gotten a much different response.

Can I ask the people who thought it was effective why they think it's effective?

Oink

Doug Cartel wrote: »

This thread is quite interesting. If you started it in the martial arts and self defence forum, you would have gotten a much different response.

Can I ask the people who thought it was effective why they think it's effective?

Let's not go into the whole "which martial art is best" discussion as its been done to death. However I learnt A LOT on the course. It completely changed my outlook on safety issues, and even if I only remember a 1 or 2 survival techniques, I genuinely think it will be worth it.

This is what I learnt:
-Be smart and don't get yourself in trouble
-If you do, run fast.
-Run faster
-If you end up in a fight, act as if you are fighting for your life. As far as you know it could very well be the case.
-As soon as you can get away, run.

Pretty good lesson.

Oink

I'm not sure if I did answer your qustion after all that, so in summary:
You learn to be more streetsmart, you get fitter physically. Mentally, it forces you to come to terms with the kind of things you may have to do if you want to survive ( 't ain't pretty).

Hanley

Doug Cartel wrote: »

This thread is quite interesting. If you started it in the martial arts and self defence forum, you would have gotten a much different response.

Can I ask the people who thought it was effective why they think it's effective?

Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at tbh.

It's only after training with fully resisting oppoents 3-4x per week for the guts of 12 months that I'd feel confident against someone of equal size and no training exp, if it came to that.

I don't think 12 weekends of drilling would have the same effect at all.

Doug Cartel

Nobody is really saying why they think it's effective. If someone said they went on a lifting course and it was effective, they could quote their increased DL/squat/bench numbers, if they went on a weight loss course they could say how much they lost.

Saying "I went on this course, it was effective because they taught us effective techniques" doesn't tell us anything. The techniques are effective because...?

CrazySka

I went to a Krav Maga class once, not sure if it was just a bad teacher or not but it seemed to be an hour and a half of lads kicking each other in the nuts.
Effective I suppose but didnt really seem like a martial art, I'm sure theres more to it than that though.

Clive

OP, krav maga has a poor reputation largely due to the marketing methods it often employs and it's use of military mystique, much as many martial arts used the Asian mystique in the past. I have met many people who have done krav maga courses over the years and very few have even the most fundamental skills of fighting, in my experience.

To expand your fire analogy, to me, short krav maga courses are more like moving into a house with a fire alarm and not checking the battery. It might make you feel more secure but it may or may not work when you need it most.

My advice would be to sign up for a white collar boxing match. You'll get 8-12 weeks of training and a match at the end. You'll learn what it's actually like to hit and be hit, and the adrenaline of fighting,in a controlled situation. After that if you still fancy a krav maga course you'll be better able to sort the wheat from the chaff. Other than that most non-physical self-defence is common sense.

arse..biscuits

If you are going to do a KM course, make sure its with Patrick Cumisky. There are a lot of copy cat classes which aren't great.

I did the weekend course and later did the advanced weekend course.
I thought the fighting techniques were very effective.
I'll give one example, I did kick boxing for a few years, so if the situation arose, I would punch at the face with a closed fist.
KM teaches striking with the bottom of the palm of your hand (in a jab not hook motion) and charging at the person at the same time. I've used this technique and had it done to me and it is horrible. This also reduces the possibility of injuring yourself (broken knickles).

Doug Cartel

arse..biscuits wrote: »

If you are going to do a KM course, make sure its with Patrick Cumisky. There are a lot of copy cat classes which aren't great.

In fairness this is a factional thing and the other groups would probably tell you to avoid Cumisky for pretty much the same reasons. Cumisky is the guy who concentrates on short courses though isn't he?

I'll give one example, I did kick boxing for a few years, so if the situation arose, I would punch at the face with a closed fist.
KM teaches striking with the bottom of the palm of your hand (in a jab not hook motion) and charging at the person at the same time. I've used this technique and had it done to me and it is horrible. This also reduces the possibility of injuring yourself (broken knickles).

So in the course of 4 days you've unlearned years of kick-boxing training? Also in what context have you used the palm strike technique it and had it used on you?

arse..biscuits

Doug Cartel wrote: »

In fairness this is a factional thing and the other groups would probably tell you to avoid Cumisky for pretty much the same reasons. Cumisky is the guy who concentrates on short courses though isn't he?


So in the course of 4 days you've unlearned years of kick-boxing training? Also in what context have you used the palm strike technique it and had it used on you?

I highly doubt anyone teaching KM in Ireland would tell you to avoid Patrick Cumisky.
I saw someone giving KM classes in a gym I used to go to on Bridge Street, it was just kicking and punching pads. Not KM as I know it at all.

I certainly didn't "unlearn" my kickboxing training. There are rules to kickboxing, there aren't rules when someone attacks you. They are 2 different sets of skills for 2 different situations.
KM teaches striking areas which not allowed in kickboxing.

I used the palm strike on an agressive junkie/scumbag in town who started out asking for a smoke and progressed to shouting/threatening me.

I had it done to me both in KM training and by a friend (not full force as we were just messing with each other) but it is still horrible.

Gordian

Sounds like in general people think Krav Maga is worthwhile. I doubt I have anything to lose by doing the 12 week course.

Doug Cartel

Gordian wrote: »

Sounds like in general people think Krav Maga is worthwhile. I doubt I have anything to lose by doing the 12 week course.

You have your time and money to lose.

Barry.Oglesby

Oink wrote: »

Let's not go into the whole "which martial art is best" discussion as its been done to death. However I learnt A LOT on the course. It completely changed my outlook on safety issues, and even if I only remember a 1 or 2 survival techniques, I genuinely think it will be worth it.

This is what I learnt:
-Be smart and don't get yourself in trouble
-If you do, run fast.
-Run faster
-If you end up in a fight, act as if you are fighting for your life. As far as you know it could very well be the case.
-As soon as you can get away, run.

Pretty good lesson.

Strauss once said that you can't teach somebody something they already know. Apparently not only was he wrong, but you can also charge money to teach somebody something they already know.

I could tell you the story of me sparring a guy who wanted to test his Krav Maga skills and tried to detach my scrotum, but it doesn't end very well and doubtless I'll sound like the scumbag by the end of it.

Gummy Panda

What martial art would people recommend for self defense?

Barry.Oglesby

Gummy Panda wrote: »

What martial art would people recommend for self defense?

Learn how to box, thai box, and wrestle. Knowing a standing submission or two won't hurt either. Most of all though, do it regularly and with a high emphasis on sparring and physical conditioning. Don't dress in women's clothing and hang around in bars. Then you'll be okay.

Gummy Panda

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Gummy Panda wrote: »

What martial art would people recommend for self defense?

Learn how to box, thai box, and wrestle. Knowing a standing submission or two won't hurt either. Most of all though, do it regularly and with a high emphasis on sparring and physical conditioning. Don't dress in women's clothing and hang around in bars. Then you'll be okay.

NO DEAL! :mad:

Gordian

Yes, I potentially have my time and money to lose. However, that is the case with a lot of things in life. You can only check up on something beforehand and make a decision on that basis. That could apply to any other sport or self defence system too.

Doug Cartel

Gummy Panda wrote: »

What martial art would people recommend for self defense?

It's very difficult to give an objective answer to this question. All I know is that fighting ability is a physical skill and as such is not something you will pick up in 18 hours of training. You need several hours of directed practice a week if you're going to see any significant improvement.

By directed practice, I mean some form of practice that is close to the thing you want to improve, and that you can make some kind of measurement of how much you're improving at it. In judo for example this is going to include performing throws while being assessed for form, performing throws while moving and ultimately performing throws against a resisting opponent who is trying to do the same against you. (Not that I really consider judo to be fighting, but this is just an example of directed practice.) The resisting opponent element is pretty much the key to any of the styles that are considered to produce effective fighters.

The other big issue is that fighting is only a small part of self defence. A major part is avoiding activities that can get you in trouble, recognising danger, being appropriately assertive, negotiating etc. Most of this stuff is pretty basic and I don't think you need a course to tell you about it, and the stuff that isn't basic is just something you have to learn form the school of hard knocks.

Barry.Oglesby

Gordian wrote: »

Yes, I potentially have my time and money to lose. However, that is the case with a lot of things in life. You can only check up on something beforehand and make a decision on that basis. That could apply to any other sport or self defence system too.

Okay then. Riddle me this.

Why do you want to do it? I've already written on this a whole bunch so I'll shamelessly link my own website here:

http://grapplerman.com/2012/03/13/self-defence-for-dummies/

Tigger

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I could tell you the story of me sparring a guy who wanted to test his Krav Maga skills and tried to detach my scrotum, but it doesn't end very well and doubtless I'll sound like the scumbag by the end of it.

+1

Gordian

My main reason for wanting to do KM is so I can defend myself, if needed.

Inspector Coptoor

Gordian wrote: »

My main reason for wanting to do KM is so I can defend myself, if needed.

I'd say to join an athletics club and improve your sprinting then.

I'd say if you really want to learn to defend yourself, do what the more experienced guys here have recommended.

Take up boxing, full contact kick boxing, thai boxing, bjj, or some form of wrestling.

JJayoo

If you can't get away **** your pants and rub it all over yourself, no one will touch you then

UL_heart_throb

This is actually interesting. If someone asked if Pilates was good to 'tone up' or 'get fit' or another vague slightly self-contradictory statement how would they be received on this forum? on the self-defence and martial arts forum they'd probably be told pilates is fine.

but on this forum, someone would say either pilates doesn't really sound like it's the solution to your problem, there are other things to consider or maybe it actually is.

When people say 'want to defend myself' want to be 'feel safer' alarm bells go off because I have an inkling that person doesn't really get it.

If someone told you, you could do pilates for 4 weeks and be fit for life you'd laugh in their face. Why don't you laugh in someone's face when they tell you you can do 4 weekends of Krav and be fit for life?

Gummy Panda

JJayoo wrote: »

If you can't get away **** your pants and rub it all over yourself, no one will touch you then

Maybe not junkies as they're covered in it already

Doug Cartel

UL_heart_throb wrote: »

If someone told you, you could do pilates for 4 weeks and be fit for life you'd laugh in their face. Why don't you laugh in someone's face when they tell you you can do 4 weekends of Krav and be fit for life?

Yeah that's about it. I don't have any issues with KM other than the quality control. The issue is people claiming that a short course is going to make such a significant difference.

arse..biscuits

UL_heart_throb wrote: »

This is actually interesting. If someone asked if Pilates was good to 'tone up' or 'get fit' or another vague slightly self-contradictory statement how would they be received on this forum? on the self-defence and martial arts forum they'd probably be told pilates is fine.

but on this forum, someone would say either pilates doesn't really sound like it's the solution to your problem, there are other things to consider or maybe it actually is.

When people say 'want to defend myself' want to be 'feel safer' alarm bells go off because I have an inkling that person doesn't really get it.

If someone told you, you could do pilates for 4 weeks and be fit for life you'd laugh in their face. Why don't you laugh in someone's face when they tell you you can do 4 weekends of Krav and be fit for life?

No one said it makes you fit for life.

TheZ

The how to survive the 5 most critical seconds of your life book by Larkin (banned yesterday from entering the UK) is worth a read.
Don't use violennce for anti-social behaviour

Interesting point he makes is that most (non criminal) people are not conditioned to use devastating violence without building up to it (shouting, pushing, punching) but that most violent attacks go to level ten immediately without a build up. Says people who are stabbed and police reports about stabbings suggest nobody ever sees a knife and think they were punched

Krav maga is good in teaching a person basically how to hit somebody
It gets a bit silly later on with the knife and gun defences though

deadlybuzzman

Is the punching in Krav Maga classes fairly full on so students dont freeze in a real life situation or is it more semi/non contact?

arse..biscuits

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

Is the punching in Krav Maga classes fairly full on so students dont freeze in a real life situation or is it more semi/non contact?

Semi contact but depends on who you pair off with and yourself. Get someone the same size as yourself and turn it up a notch. You will be covered in bruises after.

Ddad

Posted on this before. Our club in cork operates at a few different levels. The more advanced/commited students are invited to train on a specific night where the intensity is greater and we spar with boxing gloves and full face helmets.

Wer spend a lot of time drilling with partners and personally speaking I choose partners that'll resist and will go harder on you as It's more likely to enhance your skills IMHO. Having said that a lot of people come and go in KM as they think they'll be machines (no, really they do) after a short while training. Then they spar and work with the more experienced lads and they know where they are. You'd often get asked how long it took to get to your level and people are always suprised at the ammount of time and commitment it takes to become proficient in many of the skills. You need to be commited to trainig to progress.

However to put in in perspective. I train twice a week for 1.5 hours plus work at home. So 200-250 hours a year. Or in a twelve week period 50 hours of Krav; which is not a lot of training in the overall scheme of things. You will do 1.5-2 hours by 12. Which is even less. If you want to dip your toes into the water of KM by all means sign up to the 12 week course and they'll teach you some basics and about situational awareness. You won't be proficient at anything but then again you'll be better of than when you started.

Best of luck.

Buffalo19

Dont know if Im too late but Ive just started a great one in Rathmines Swan centre, Instructors name is Paul. I've done a lot of martial arts in the past but if you are looking for just straight self defence there is definitely nothing better!!!!

http://www.facebook.com/prokravmaga

themandan6611

Buffalo19 wrote: »

Dont know if Im too late but Ive just started a great one in Rathmines Swan centre, Instructors name is Paul. I've done a lot of martial arts in the past but if you are looking for just straight self defence there is definitely nothing better!!!!

http://www.facebook.com/prokravmaga

what martial arts have you done previously ?

what's so good about this one, that makes it so good that there is nothing better ?

Hanley

Imagine if you're attacker knew Krav Maga too. Be like that scene out of Transformers where they destroy an entire city.

Michael 09

Hanley wrote: »

Imagine if you're attacker knew Krav Maga too. Be like that scene out of Transformers where they destroy an entire city.

I actually lol'd at this. A random mugging would turn into a fight scene from the Borne Identity.

Hanley

Michael 09 wrote: »

I actually lol'd at this. A random mugging would turn into a fight scene from the Borne Identity.

..I think that's what happened in The Matrix.

Buffalo19

themandan6611 wrote: »

what martial arts have you done previously ?

what's so good about this one, that makes it so good that there is nothing better ?

I have done Muay Thai for three years, competed and taught the sport. I am also currently doing BJJ and wrestling in order to try my hand at MMA.

Krav is different, it teaches you practical self defence. Most other martial arts are competition based so there is a lot of techniques the that are illegal, attacking the eyes, throat, spinal column, groin ect is banned because of the danger to the opponent. Where as in Krav these areas are the main focus of your attacks.

It really depends on what your goal is, if all you want is to learn how to defend yourself in the event of someone attacking you on the street then Krav is the only way to go in my opinion, but if you want to get properly fit, compete in tournaments or pit your skill against other then it wouldnt be ideal.

There are positives to all Martial arts and to be honest if your become skilled at any of them you will be better than 95% of the people you come across on the street.

Buffalo19

Gordian wrote: »

I'd like to be able to feel that I would be able to defend myself agianst a random person if I was ever attacked in the street. I suppose like fire insurance, I hope I would never need it, but I'd like to have just in case.

@dantheman this is the reason I recommended KM, literately because of this post, I am a Muay thai man through and through but it is a tough sport that takes a lot of commitment same as MMA if you want to be anyway good, where as Gordian just seems to want it as a "just in case" thing like kempo you could never use it in the ring but is extremely destructive when faced with a mugger or some drunk idiot who just wants to smash your face in.

There is a lot of work done with controlled aggression and the best defence is a good offence in most of these cases

Hanley

Buffalo19 wrote: »

There is a lot of work done with controlled aggression and the best defence is a good offence in most of these cases

That is extremely worrying.

Buffalo19

Gordian wrote: »

Sounds like in general people think Krav Maga is worthwhile. I doubt I have anything to lose by doing the 12 week course.

This weekend course thing sounds doggie to me. there is no way in hell you can learn to defend yourself in four days, its takes months before you even start to look confident, even a 12 week course should be a stepping stone. The only way to be always good and sharp is to continuously train. Even the most practised hand becomes sloppy after time away from training.

Buffalo19

Hanley wrote: »

That is extremely worrying.

In what way?

money_mad

<Mod snip> Nothing to see here, unless bitterness is quantifiable...</snip>

Banned

bill buchanan

I don't think KM is the answer to anything. Did it for a good while and then moved onto kickboxing and others. KM, to my mind, is just like choreographed dancing.

Even my old mother saw me training with a few lads and told me she thought it would be useless