Cardinal Brady - holed and sunk, but does he know it?

robindch

The BBC's screening a documentary this evening entitled "This World: The Shame of the Catholic Church" and apparently concentrating on Sean Brady's role in the cover-up of Brendan Smyth's abuse:

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2012/04/30/bbc-programme-will-make-donegal-abuse-story-global/
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/brady-under-pressure-as-sex-abuse-victims-talk-of-coverup-3096117.html

BBC 1, 2235pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01h7m8r

optogirl

And so we find now that Cardinal Brady was also complicit in covering up for the raping scumbag Brendan Smyth and pressuring children to keep quiet. How much more of this absolute horror can people defend? The RCC is rotten to the core and guilty of the most awful crimes imaginable. Why won't they just hold their hands up and admit they are a hypocritical, inadequate organisation that are not fit for purpose.

Seth Brundle

I was watching that.
Surely, he will have the moral decency to at least stand down now!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17853126

He has shown himself to be a liar (minimising his role in the investigation), and complicit in the crimes of Smith because he did not even inform the parents of the abused children about the abuse, preferring to put questions to the children to discover how much they may have enjoyed the experience.

Corkfeen

Yet the amazing thing is that there are still individuals who will deny the existence of a cover up that had Vatican endorsement. I was actually sickened by that article even though much of it was already known to a degree.

unkel

optogirl wrote: »

And so we find now that Cardinal Brady was also complicit in covering up for the raping scumbag Brendan Smyth and pressuring children to keep quiet.

Never believed anything that scumbag Brady said. Sickening it is though to see my intuition proved right

bnt

robindch wrote: »

The BBC's screening a documentary this evening entitled "This World: The Shame of the Catholic Church" and apparently concentrating on Sean Brady's role in the cover-up of Brendan Smyth's abuse:

I'm watching this now, recorded last night. It's being repeated tonight (Wed) on BBC2 at 9PM.

I have to admit that I'm never going to truly get how bad it was. I didn't grow up in Ireland, and while I was taken to Catholic Church as a kid and was an altar boy for a while, I was never in any danger of abuse. (It was a flying parish in a small town, meaning that the priest drove in from his parish, did the service, and went away again.)

The program has things I wasn't aware of, such as just how big and influential St. Patrick's College, Maynooth was. The presenter says that the numbers of graduating priests has shrunk from 60-70 to 12 this year. That's not what Wikipedia says ... hmm.

edit: Brady sounds like a broken record: "I did what I was there to do". Dunno about those "ambush interview" tactics, though - they might look good on TV, but they rarely get results.

Bannasidhe

bnt wrote: »

I'm watching this now, recorded last night. It's being repeated tonight (Wed) on BBC2 at 9PM.

I have to admit that I'm never going to truly get how bad it was. I didn't grow up in Ireland, and while I was taken to Catholic Church as a kid and was an altar boy for a while, I was never in any danger of abuse. (It was a flying parish in a small town, meaning that the priest drove in from his parish, did the service, and went away again.)

The program has things I wasn't aware of, such as just how big and influential St. Patrick's College, Maynooth was. The presenter says that the numbers of graduating priests has shrunk from 60-70 to 12 this year. That's not what Wikipedia says ... hmm.

edit: Brady sounds like a broken record: "I did what I was there to do". Dunno about those "ambush interview" tactics, though - they might look good on TV, but they rarely get results.

Looks like as far as Rome is concerned Brady did exactly what they wanted him to do.

The Vatican's senior sex crimes prosecutor has today defended Cardinal Sean Brady's handling of allegations of clerical sex abuse.

Monsignor Charles Scicluna said the current primate had no case to answer over renewed allegations of mishandling information given to him in 1975 about serial sex abuser Fr Brendan Smyth.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0502/breaking8.html

Why am I not even a little bit surprised.....?

Delirium

The BBC program now up on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ma9ALRpEVw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHhyju2GfdE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZW0zG9y_eI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFvKokHnNrQ

Newaglish

Cardinal Brady's response is on thejournal here

Notable lack of any kind of apology or regret. His approach seems to be 'well the church guidelines said to take some notes and that's what I did'. Completely omits any sort of suggestion that he might involve the police because all of us ultimately know that their "investigation" was nothing more than a cover-up.

robindch

And on the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17921673

Marie Collins, via BBC wrote:

"I'm amazed no bishops have come out and said he should go," she said. "We have priests and theologians being silenced by the Vatican - they can act against people whose views they feel are liberal, but they will not act against someone who not only endangered children but let them be abused. If Cardinal Brady came out and espoused the view that women should be ordained, he'd be gone within hours."

magicbastarder

Newaglish wrote: »

Cardinal Brady's response is on thejournal here

cardinal brady wrote:

Acting promptly and with the specific purpose of corroborating the evidence provided by Mr Boland, thereby strengthening the case against Brendan Smyth

strengthening the case? what case? didn't do much to strengthen the case considering it was 1991 before an arrest warrant was issued.

robindch

magicbastarder wrote: »

strengthening the case? what case?

Presumably the case under canon law, since the whole point of this exercise was to hide it from the civil authorities. Brady was unable then, as he appears unable now, to accept that he has a primary responsibility to Irish law.

And with respect to his claim that there were no guidelines for allegations of child abuse? FFS! If there weren't, then why didn't somebody propose some? And even in the absence of guidelines for allegations, well I haven't checked, but I'm assuming that (a) rape of children was a crime in 1974, and (b) ignorance of the law is no defense.

Galvasean

"If i don't see it it's not illegal!"

On RTE news earlier there was some Montsignor or Shaman or whatever saying that he thought Brady met his moral obligations to the victims and society. I'm afraid to try to imagine what it would take for him to not have met his obligations.

Just saw a sad clip there, a victim saying "he's not the man to lead our church". Just depressing that they still feel that they need the church.

dmw07

Deleted User wrote: »

Just depressing that they still feel that they need the church.

I've come to a conclusion that this will always be the sad truth. It's endemic in human psyche to be greedy, and there is no more a greedy thought than to want to live forever in an eternal bliss.

Bannasidhe

Galvasean wrote: »

"If i don't see it it's not illegal!"

Pass me that spliff and start lining up the cocaine lads - put first let us put on these blindfolds.

recedite

robindch wrote: »

Presumably the case under canon law, since the whole point of this exercise was to hide it from the civil authorities. Brady was unable then, as he appears unable now, to accept that he has a primary responsibility to Irish law.

And with respect to his claim that there were no guidelines for allegations of child abuse? FFS! If there weren't, then why didn't somebody propose some? And even in the absence of guidelines for allegations, well I haven't checked, but I'm assuming that (a) rape of children was a crime in 1974, and (b) ignorance of the law is no defense.

+1
Brady is essentially trying to use The Nuremburg Defence, and he's trying to deflect all the blame onto the Norbertine Abbot (who was forced to resign long ago).

Brady wrote:

I had absolutely no authority over Brendan Smyth. Even my Bishop had limited authority over him. The only people who had authority within the Church to stop Brendan Smyth from having contact with children were his Abbot in the Monastery in Kilnacrott and his Religious Superiors in the Norbertine Order.

His epic fail was to "only follow orders", and to totally ignore all other options, including the Gardai, the RUC, and the newspapers, anyone at all who might have taken some action.
At the same time, this strategy is exactly what got him where he is today, top man of RCC in Ireland.

Hotblack Desiato

Reading Brady's statement, it's obvious that, to this day, the only 'authorities' they recognise are in Rome.

They still don't get it. At all.

F12

ninja900 wrote: »

Reading Brady's statement, it's obvious that, to this day, the only 'authorities' they recognise are in Rome.

They still don't get it. At all.

Still don't? Still won't? Still can't? They can't believe that they could be wrong. Such humility in the face of truth.

FouxDaFaFa

Thanks for putting those up, Koth. I missed the show when it was on tv.
It's hard to put it coherently how angry that programme made me.

robindch

Given the amount of commentary that's appeared in recent days over Brady's handling of the Brendan Smyth abuse fiasco, it's probably best to keep it all in the one thread for the time being and possibly merge it back in with the other thread when things calm down again.

robindch

Fr Brian d'Arcy calls for Brady's resignation (wonder how that got last the censor):

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/i-couldnt-go-on-if-i-was-cardinal-brady-fr-darcy-3097677.html

Eamon Gilmore says the same:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ojojauaueyau/

magicbastarder

it's gas the way responsibility always flows up. despite seeming to have been the most senior of the three priests (certainly in terms of knowledge of canon law), brady claims he was too junior to do anything about it.

i suppose it makes a change from the 'blame the intern' approach, but the intern is not dead and buried here.

Chiliroses

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Looks like as far as Rome is concerned Brady did exactly what they wanted him to do.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0502/breaking8.html

Why am I not even a little bit surprised.....?

They're as thick as thieves the whole lot of them, it's no wonder so many people have given up on going to mass and the lot of it..

joseph brand

From the BBC programme.
Paul Breslin says "When other children were out playing I was taken down to the beach and raped".

That is so sad. I'm biting my lip so I don't cry.

Zamboni

Brady was a 36 year old adult at the time of this incident with free will.
He was complicit in child rape. His position is untenable.

robindch

Looking briefly at a rerun of the BBC documentary last night, I must say I felt slightly sorry for Brady. Certainly not because of what he did or what he failed to do, and clearly not for what happened on account of his inaction and the drumbeat denial of responsibility, but simply because Brady still doesn't get it.

He came across simply as an elderly man, powerless, shocked, surprised, upset, uncomprehending and in total disbelief that the wheels, if they were ever there to start with, have finally and unreservedly come off the system he's pledged his life to uphold. That the house rules of his organization, and the morals it promotes, thought perfect and infallible, are all now seen as too fallible now offer him, in what seem to be years of rapid decline, no protection from the just accusation of moral inadequacy. And neither do the rules and habits of the church offer him the precedent or even possibility of resignation or retreat with honor intact - an unenviable situation for somebody of his age and station.

The words of the cardinal's oath must be sticking in his throat:

Cardinal Brady wrote:

I [name and surname], Cardinal of the Holy Roman Church, promise and swear to be faithful henceforth and forever, while I live, to Christ and his Gospel, being constantly obedient to the Holy Roman Apostolic Church, to Blessed Peter in the person of the Supreme Pontiff Benedict XVI, and of his canonically elected Successors; to maintain communion with the Catholic Church always, in word and deed; not to reveal to any one what is confided to me in secret, nor to divulge what may bring harm or dishonor to Holy Church; to carry out with great diligence and faithfulness those tasks to which I am called by my service to the Church, in accord with the norms of the law.

He upheld the rules to the letter, but doing so has brought nothing but harm and dishonor to the church -- that's got to be an impossibly hard thing for him to accept.

And another seven and a half years to his retirement at the age of 80 in 2019? That relief must look desperately distant to him at the moment and frankly, I don't see him making it.

.

eviltwin

Pressure seems to be building on him to resign but you would think someone higher up would step in and force him out. If the Church want to build bridges and repair their reputation this is not the way to do it. Can they not see that? The silence from the priests has been pretty disgusting too..why don't they speak out?

Delirium

Church in crisis: At least 30 abused after Cardinal Brady didn’t report Smyth

NOTORIOUS paedophile priest Brendan Smyth abused 30 or more children in the years after Cardinal Sean Brady failed to report his crimes, a former RUC officer has revealed.

Pressure was growing on Dr Brady to resign today as Barnardo’s chief Fergus Finlay joined the calls for him to step down.

Dr Brady’s position is becoming increasingly untenable after new revelations about his failure to report child rape allegations or inform the parents of some of Smyth's victims.

The cardinal admitted that there had been nothing to stop him going to civil authorities about accusations against the serial paedophile.

robindch

eviltwin wrote: »

why don't they speak out?

They're not allowed to.

It's only a week since news leaked out concerning the Vatican's censorship of priests who air their grievances in public.

kiki

OP asked if "holed and sunk"

I expect he will resign in next couple of days if not hours.

There is really only two views on this that are relevant and both lead me to the same conclusion.

First view if you agree that he has a case to answer, perhaps not a legal one, but definitely a moral one. And I am of the opinion that he has a case to answer as a citizen of the state - any person with a normal moral compass would have done more than simply passed information on, swore people to silence and put head down. Any person with a normal compass would at the very least informed parents of the victims of his findings or alternatively ensured that those parents were informed in a timely manner. For me this isnt whether someone is a priest or not - it just normal social decency. Yes he is holed and sunk and should resign.

Second view - If you disagree and and think he has no case to answer then I ask - How can he expect to have any publicly accepted authority to preach as a priest or provide moral guidance. In this case he is also "holed and sunk" should also resign without delay.

Woody

four18

The Catholic Church ruled this little country with Terror for a very long time. Even the Government were afraid of them including the gardai. I am so so happy to see them suffer now. He should go. He must go. And Connell was no better either

Galvasean

four18 wrote: »

He should go. He must go to jail

FYP.

tony_soprano

four18 wrote: »

The Catholic Church ruled this little country with Terror for a very long time. Even the Government were afraid of them including the gardai. I am so so happy to see them suffer now. He should go. He must go. And Connell was no better either

AGS may not have done anything even brady had reported smith to them

Banbh

The news media keep reminding us that he was only 35 at the time and also that he was only a priest then.
I wonder would those excuses stand up in court.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Just watched it there this morning.

How Brady hasn't resigned by now is beyond me - either:

1) Rome has refused his resignation (in which case he should just defy them anyways)

2) He's absolutely deluded and feels he did everything he could

or

3) He's an old man who is fully aware he has contributed to the misery and suffering of many children, yet feels above retaliation or justice owing to his lofty office in the church.

I've said it before, but how people (like my parents, or most of my family) can call themselves catholic, and put money into collection baskets at mass every week to support this organisation is jaw-dropping. It's sickening.

Have to admit, it was quite upsetting seeing the abuse victims recount their experiences, the pain still visible on their faces. And the hurt still there to be heard in their voices... it was harrowing, knowing that these kids had their lives ruined forever, with abuse continuing even when they had the courage to report it.

I'd say it's number 3.

Another little thing that sums this whole thing up, I said to my parents that it was a wonder the young fella who reported it didn't get sent to a looney bin and both straightaway said "10 years earlier and he would've been".

Gbear

I felt utterly sick watching that documentary. I've only watched a quarter of it and that's quite enough horror for one day.

Whatever about the rapists themselves - at least they were mentally ill. The scumbags who covered it up don't even have that to hide behind.

Brady should be dumped in the atlantic.

joseph brand

Gbear wrote: »

I felt utterly sick watching that documentary. I've only watched a quarter of it and that's quite enough horror for one day.

Whatever about the rapists themselves - at least they were mentally ill. The scumbags who covered it up don't even have that to hide behind.

Brady should be dumped in the atlantic.

Have sympathy for the fish please. Better to dump him into an active volcano. I hear there's one spewing lava in Mexico.

robindch

The Telegraph calls for Brady's resignation:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9241955/This-World-The-Shame-of-the-Catholic-Church-BBC-Two-review.html

Coriolanus

Can't wait to see if waters comes out as a white knight or fails to refer to it at all.

Turtwig

Rabble rabble, liberal media bias, rabble rabble, secular agenda, rabble rabble, cardinal persecution, rabble rabble dishonest documentary, rabble rabble, hitler/naziism, rabble rabble must fight for old traditional Ireland rabble rabble I'm insightful and true rabble rabble

purple_hatstand

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

Thanks for putting those up, Koth. I missed the show when it was on tv.
It's hard to put it coherently how angry that programme made me.

This.

I'm shook.

Nodin

is he sitten there now,

in a room with the curtains drawn,

all on his todd,

contemplating his signed pic of
http://www.serpo.org/r28pics/Pope_Benedict_XVI.jpg

while
http://youtu.be/ohDDxCdm9Oo

plays in his head.....

Galvasean

Nevore wrote: »

Can't wait to see if waters comes out as a white knight or fails to refer to it at all.

David Quinn came out in today's Indo and said Brady should step down, but not for the reason one would think...
Can't find it on their site. I'm sure it will be up tomorrow. I only glanced through it (my tea break is preciously short), but from what I gathered he reckons Brady should step down because nobody has faith in him anymore regardless of whether he was right or wrong. He seemed at pains to explain that Brady was being held to a higher moral standard than everyone else - or something. It was all quite rambly.

Turtwig

For David Quinn to even say that is something significant. A full on admission by him would be borderline expecting to see a flying pig.

Hotblack Desiato

robindch wrote: »

That the house rules of his organization, and the morals it promotes, thought perfect and infallible, are all now seen as too fallible now offer him, in what seem to be years of rapid decline, no protection from the just accusation of moral inadequacy.

Yeah, sometimes in my blackened, shrivelled, godless heart I feel sorry for the true believers who've watched everything they believe in, their whole vision for a 'just' and 'moral' society along Catholic lines fall down around their ears. Then I remember that among many other grevious crimes they actively facilitated child rape and continue to excuse and minimise their role in the conspiracy to this day.

Apparently there is the possibility of a PSNI investigation, as concealing evidence of a crime was itself a crime since the early 70s and Brady was aware of child rapes occurring in Northern Ireland. Somehow, this was not a criime until this year in our incredibly wooly legal system :rolleyes:

Let us not forget that it was NI which brought Brendan Smyth to justice*, not this jurisdiction. I hope they can again show us how justice should be done.


* If there was real justice, that bastard would be rotting in jail to this day. I hope he died screaming.

Hotblack Desiato

Nodin wrote: »

is he sitten there now,

in a room with the curtains drawn,

all on his todd,

contemplating his signed pic of
http://www.serpo.org/r28pics/Pope_Benedict_XVI.jpg

while
http://youtu.be/ohDDxCdm9Oo

plays in his head.....

I'm reminded of VB's remark about Enda and a tumbler of whiskey...

gawker

I've noticed that one excuse being posited by some people on TV and radio for Brady's inaction is that "it was 1970s Ireland, things were different, there were different expectations etc...". I really wish somebody would put it to them that they claim to be the ones with absolute truth and morals and yet they are now claiming that absolute truth and morals seem to have changed in the past 40 years. So messed up.

Nodin

Galvasean wrote: »

David Quinn came out in today's Indo and said Brady should step down, .............

...a thing so shocking it would have red alert lights and sirens going, Kirk and the rest bouncing from one side of the bridge to the other.....

Nodin

gawker wrote: »

I've noticed that one excuse being posited by some people on TV and radio for Brady's inaction is that "it was 1970s Ireland, things were different, there were different expectations etc...". I really wish somebody would put it to them that they claim to be the ones with absolute truth and morals and yet they are now claiming that absolute truth and morals seem to have changed in the past 40 years. So messed up.

The 'We didn't understand the damage' line.

I was a teenager in the 1980's. The Church - as some have noted over the years - was a tad on the sex obsessed side then, and I doubt it was any better 5-10 years earlier. The idea that there could be a situation where a priest could be having sexual contact of any form with anyone and it not be taken seriously by the Church hierarchy is a bit much.