Cardinal Brady - holed and sunk, but does he know it?

Happy Monday

Jernal wrote: »

So, just to make sure I'm understanding this correctly. You're basically saying that if the company you're working for was involved in fraud the type of fraud that would bankrupt a country you'd just keep your mouth shut? If you had a suspicion a co-worker was abusing a child you wouldn't report it?


No, my dear sir/madam, Cardinal Brady most certainly should not be supported and your opinion most certainly should be condemned.

Happyman42 wrote: »

To his involvement. Why is he only blowing the whistle on the abbot (at who's door he is landing the crime) now? Why wasn't he hammering the pulpit long ago on this, WHEN HE HAD NO MORE SUPERIORS TO WORRY ABOUT IN IRELAND.

Smyth had been jailed by then.
Case closed.

Happyman42

Happy Monday wrote: »

Smyth had been jailed by then.
Case closed.

So he hid the criminal involvement of a whole raft of people, is that what you are condoning now in your typical RC sychophantic servile effort to protect this man?

Feck sake, they've never forgiven Judas and he's dead a while.

Happy Monday

Happyman42 wrote: »

So he hid the criminal involvement of a whole raft of people, is that what you are condoning now in your typical RC sychophantic servile effort to protect this man?

Feck sake, they've never forgiven Judas and he's dead a while.

He served notice to the Bishop that this man was a danger.
He served his role.
As Cardinal he has ensured transparency in all of these matters coming up to him.
What more can you atheists who believe in nothing ask from this man who expounds God's love.

Turtwig

Happy Monday wrote: »

He served notice to the Bishop that this man was a danger.
He served his role.
As Cardinal he has ensured transparency in all of these matters coming up to him.
What more can you atheists who believe in nothing ask from this man who expounds God's love.

I'm agnostic.

Happyman42

Happy Monday wrote: »

He served notice to the Bishop that this man was a danger.
He served his role.
As Cardinal he has ensured transparency in all of these matters coming up to him.
What more can you atheists who believe in nothing ask from this man who expounds God's love.

I found the BBC programme featuring a victim forced to seek closure and the subsequent pressure put on this excuse for a human being very transparent alright.
His behaviour is closer to atheism than mine, let me assure you. As cardinal he has further disgraced an evil organisation.
Troll elsewhere.

Happy Monday

Happyman42 wrote: »

I found the BBC programme featuring a victim forced to seek closure and the subsequent pressure put on this excuse for a human being very transparent alright.
His behaviour is closer to atheism than mine, let me assure you. As cardinal he has further disgraced an evil organisation.
Troll elsewhere.

True colours at last!
Evil organisation.
You're not aware of what the Church does to help millions of people across the world.
But you hop on every bandwagon to condemn it.
Shame on you pal shame on you!
By the way if can't accept an alternative viewpoint maybe it's you who shouldn't be on Boards.

Happyman42

Happy Monday wrote: »

Evil organisation.

I was just thinking that during the Songs of Praise repeat. I nearly choked on my digestive...the singing!!!!!:rolleyes:

Turtwig

Well, this sure is a thread filled with Happy.

celticcrash

Atheists have more soul than the catholic church.
The CC have no real human empathy with anyone.
Their arrogance is there downfall.

People say Brady is not fit to be a cardinal.
I say Brady is perfect to repersent the church.

Galvasean

Jernal wrote: »

Well, this sure is a thread filled with Happy.

Had to read that back n' forth a couple of times. The names started blurring into each other.

CiaranMT

Happy Monday wrote: »

By the way if can't accept an alternative viewpoint maybe it's you who shouldn't be on Boards.

Irony.... Mmmmmm.

WhatNowForUs?

celticcrash wrote: »

Atheists have more soul than the catholic church.
The CC have no real human empathy with anyone.
Their arrogance is there downfall.

People say Brady is not fit to be a cardinal.
I say Brady is perfect to repersent the church.

Yep represent the church from jail.

Delirium

Happy Monday wrote: »

True colours at last!
Evil organisation.
You're not aware of what the Church does to help millions of people across the world.
But you hop on every bandwagon to condemn it.
Shame on you pal shame on you!
By the way if can't accept an alternative viewpoint maybe it's you who shouldn't be on Boards.

Indeed, it's truly awful that someone wouldn't look on someone failing to report child abuse to the childs parents in a less than favourable way :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Fortyniner

Happy Monday wrote: »

He served notice to the Bishop that this man was a danger.
He served his role.
As Cardinal he has ensured transparency in all of these matters coming up to him.
What more can you atheists who believe in nothing ask from this man who expounds God's love.

This has got to go the top of my list of quotations from the lunatic fringe.

Seth Brundle

Happy Monday wrote: »

He served notice to the Bishop that this man was a danger.
He served his role.
As Cardinal he has ensured transparency in all of these matters coming up to him.
What more can you atheists who believe in nothing ask from this man who expounds God's love.

1. You don't know what he told the bishop so stop making claims on this matter.
2. He served his role to the church, not to the victims or to society or to the rule of law.
3. He has not ensured transparency. His involvement in these private "tribunals" had to be exposed by the victims through the media. He has not once come forward with facts voluntarily and even now he continues to deny the victims the satisfaction of full truth and disclosure.
4. Expounds Gods love? What kind of God would condone those actions?
to quote a letter in today's Irish Times:

Sir,

– I quote

Cardinal Seán Brady: “The only people who had authority within the Church to stop Brendan Smyth from having contact with children were his Abbot in the Monastery in Kilnacrott and his Religious Superiors in the Norbertine Order.”

Mark 11:15: “Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers”.

Throwing over tables is one thing, but what else might Jesus have done with Fr Brendan Smyth? Would he have taken notes?

– Yours, etc,

JOHNNY REILLY,
Barrogstown,
Maynooth, Co Kildare.

Well, would Jesus (and I'm aware of the forum we're currently posting in) have taken notes or would he have done more without having to worry about internal church procedures and secrecy?

5. Lastly, I'm not an atheist but I don't believe in the catholic church as a representation of the Christian God. Please don't make assumptions about everyone reading in here.

magicbastarder

lads, i suspect you're being trolled.

Seth Brundle

magicbastarder wrote: »

lads, i suspect you're being trolled.

I suspect you are correct but in fairness, there are plenty of apologists out there who can't see beyond the collar!

Banbh

A long time ago when I was very young. I was only about 35 or 36.

Anyway I was walking by a river and saw a boat capsize and a group of kids fall in the water. Now I had been attending swimming training for several years at the time but I didn't have my lifeguard's certificate so I reported it later that day to the lifeguard in the next village.

I never checked the papers to see what happened to those kids as I had done my duty and it wasn't my responsibility.

This post may contain irony and sarcasm. Terms and conditions apply.

Delirium

From broadsheet.ie

Retired Garda Martin Ridge told a BBC Spotlight investigation, also presented by Darragh McIntyre, into Fr Greene’s activities: “I don’t believe a week went by in West Donegal where you hadn’t a child or a number of children sexually abused . It’s horrendous. Anywhere you look around here which is so hard to fathom: by-roads, side roads, churches, schools – the abuse here was something unbelievable, unbelievable. And the fact that nobody in the public spoke out about this after the total carnage here.”

Which makes this report from The Sunday Tribune (not available online) of November 2008 all the the more disturbing:

Fr Eugene Greene (81) was sentenced to 12 years’ imprisonment eight years ago for raping and sexually assaulting boys as young as seven from 1962 to 1985 in the west Donegal Gaeltacht.
The priest is due for release on 4 December and is expected to return for Christmas to the village where he committed many of his crimes. A collection organised by some of his supporters while he was in jail is estimated to exceed €50,000.

Link

People raised €50,000 for the convicted rapist???? What about the f*cking victims??:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Happyman42

koth wrote: »

From broadsheet.ie



People raised €50,000 for the convicted rapist???? What about the f*cking victims??:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Based on conversations I have had out here in the real world since the Brady story broke, there are still a hardcore of RC's who just wish these stories would go away so they can get back to being the dutiful, sycophantic servants of the Vatican that they have always been.
I suspect that it was the same sick, misguided 'hardcore' that raised the money for Greene.

Hermy

Banbh wrote: »

A long time ago when I was very young. I was only about 35 or 36.

Anyway I was walking by a river and saw a boat capsize and a group of kids fall in the water. Now I had been attending swimming training for several years at the time but I didn't have my lifeguard's certificate so I reported it later that day to the lifeguard in the next village.

I never checked the papers to see what happened to those kids as I had done my duty and it wasn't my responsibility.

This post may contain irony and sarcasm. Terms and conditions apply.

You forgot the bit about swearing all concerned to secrecy just before they drowned - otherwise nail hit on head.

magicbastarder

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/05/04/fr-vincent-twomey-wheres-the-humanity/

Hermy

If Brady is really suffering as Twomey suggests, I'd like to know what the cause of that suffering is because Brady himself says he did nothing wrong and that if the situation arose again he would do nothing differently.

joseph brand

Hermy wrote: »

If Brady is really suffering as Twomey suggests, I'd like to know what the cause of that suffering is because Brady himself says he did nothing wrong and that if the situation arose again he would do nothing differently.

Twomey speaks like there's a small bit of fear in him, judging by his voice and choice of words. He is talking about his boss and then showing us that that instilled fear which they blame on so much of the failings in the church (in the past), is still there, just as much as it was before.

Twomey: And I think Cardinal Brady must be suffering enormously at the moment.

HOW DARE they talk about Brady 'suffering' when there are so many victims suffering for 35 years, lives ruined. Meanwhile Brady occupies the top position here as the Big Cheese of the church. Playing the 'feel sorry for the poor oul church ahh god' card.

Twomey: “May I just preface my remarks by saying I’m here very reluctantly. I didn’t want, I’ve refused several invitations to speak on this thing

It's rare that a guest on any show utters these words. I don't know whether he's trying to apologise to Brady or just letting us know that we're lucky he attended and graced us with his presence. Either way it's garbage.

recedite

This whole case is quite interesting in light of the recent spat between Enda Kenny and the Vatican. The Vatican have always maintained that bad stuff happened here because of the failure of clerics in Ireland.
But here we have a faithful priest who rose up through the ranks, to the top job, by doing everything according to the book. Always following correct procedure and obeying them fully. And now pretty much the whole Irish population is calling for his resignation.
How can the Vatican condemn him? On the other hand, he has become a liability. I think he's going to be shafted, its the only way out for them. He'll be getting a parcel from Rome soon containing the proverbial revolver and a bottle of whiskey.

LostinKildare

See Patsy McGarry's piece in the Times today about Bruno Mulvihill, a priest who complained many times to different church officials about Brendan Smyth, to no avail. Sickening stuff.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0504/1224315592493.html

. . . he produced a letter he sent to the bishop of Kilmore, Francis McKiernan, dated November 1st, 1974. In it he disclosed how “ever since 1964 I have known that a member of the community, Fr Brendan Smyth, is misbehaving: he is molesting children who attend bingo sessions. Two of them who are superficially known to me have told me about their troubles.” He “brought this matter to the attention of the abbot but to no avail”.

That letter was dated almost five months before Fr Brady, then secretary to Bishop McKiernan, and two other priests interviewed 14-year-old Brendan Boland about the boy’s abuse by Fr Smyth.

Bishop McKiernan denied receiving the letter. A copy was sent to then papal nuncio Archbishop Gaetano Alibrandi.

In another letter, dated July 1994, and sent to papal nuncio archbishop Emanuele Gerada, Fr Mulvihill said he had tried to speak to Bishop McKiernan about Fr Smyth at a function in Kilnacrott Abbey in the early 1970s.

That letter detailed more incidents he had seen involving Fr Smyth and children. He had seen the priest enter a room at Kilnacrott with a young girl. He told the abbot, who saw no harm in it. A boy told him Fr Smyth had made advances. He told the abbot, who “laughed it off as a joke with a remark that I must have a problem myself, otherwise the child would not have come to me”.

In that letter to the nuncio, Fr Mulvihill detailed his many approaches about Fr Smyth to Felim Colwell, abbot at Kilnacrott, Co Cavan, until 1969, and his successor, abbot Kevin Smith.

He recalled seeing at Kilnacrott a “stiff decree” issued by the Vatican’s Congregation for Religious in 1968 concerning Fr Smyth. It said Fr Smyth was not to leave there without permission or without being accompanied by a trustworthy person for the rest of his life. His faculties for confession were to be forever restricted.

The decree was ignored, he told the nuncio. Fr Smyth had his own car with a Belfast number plate and was permanently absent from the community. When he was at Kilnacrott he heard confession.

After the election of abbot Smith in 1969, Fr Mulvihill said he risked being allowed take his final vows by asking why the decree was ignored. “I was told that in his [the abbot’s], opinion Smyth had been penalised too much in his life, that his pastoral record was impeccable and the stipulation from the Congregation for Religious was far too stringent.”

Archbishop Gerada told The Irish Times he knew nothing of the letter from Fr Mulvihill. Fr Mulvihill also claimed he told then abbot general of the Norbertines, Fr Marcel Van de Ven, in 1986 about Fr Smyth after an ordination service in Belgium. Abbot general Van de Ven denied this to The Irish Times.

In March 2010 documents from Garda files produced during a legal action taken by a woman abused by Fr Smyth included the letter sent by Fr Mulvihill on November 1st, 1974, to papal nuncio Alibrandi and a similar letter of the same date to bishop McKiernan. Both dealt with Fr Smyth’s abuse of children.

In a statement to gardaí of June 1995, Fr Mulvihill recalled his attempts to raise his concerns about Fr Smyth with papal nuncio Alibrandi and Bishop McKiernan at a 1974 function in Kilnacrott. Archbishop Alibrandi “was not interested”. Bishop McKiernan “showed no interest”.

So he then wrote to both.

Fr Mulvihill left the priesthood in frustration. He went to Germany, where he died in a car crash in October 2004.

Am I reading that bolded part right?? For all the talk about strict deference to Church hierarchy, it seems that perhaps the problem was too little deference (to the Vatican's restriction of Smyth).

robindch

recedite wrote: »

How can the Vatican condemn him?

That oleaginous oik from Vatican who appeared on the BBC documentary made it clear to the presenter that the Vatican wasn't going to do anything about Brady, instead leaving it up to Brady himself to "consider his position" or some such phrase.

Considering the Vatican's usual veiled commentary, and bearing in mind the Vatican's splendid tradition of Latæ Sententiæ (basically, guilt implied by action, without the benefit of a trial), that's probably as close as they're going to get to demanding he resign.

Turtwig

robindch wrote: »

oleaginous

New word of the day for me, thanks.:)

Came across someone today who thinks Brady shouldn't go for the first time. He also thinks the Holocaust is a myth so there's that. :pac:

smokingman

Happy Monday wrote: »

What more can you atheists who believe in nothing ask from this man who expounds God's love.

I would be one of your more gnostic atheists and your pitiful attempt at attacking my lack of belief in magic and insinuating I am some kind of morally deficient person just goes to show your Stockholm syndrome for what it is.

You are defending someone who stood by and did nothing as more children were raped.
You are defending someone who knew of the parents of children that were continuing to be raped and did not at least inform or warn them.

Your "morality" in defending this man is testament to the disgusting cowardice you hide behind here.