Occupy Galway, fresh start thread

antoobrien

fishy fishy wrote: »

for starters, they get people thinking? Thinking is the first step.

I would argue the exact opposite. They rely on unsourced blogs for their "facts". Show them any documentary evidence to the contrary they dismiss it as propaganda. Actually show product of critical thinking and you're trying to subvert them.

It's my firm opinion that they don't want people thinking for themselves, they want sheep to follow them.

squonk

fishy fishy wrote: »

for starters, they get people thinking? Thinking is the first step. And it's no harm for everyone to start thinking about how screwed the people of this country are being, day in and day out. The more people start thinking the more of a chance that the people will make a difference.

i know some people would wish them to go away, but I'd rather have them there as a constant reminder, rather than for them to be brushed under the carpet and pretend we are not being screwed (just what our dear leaders would love).

Remember anemic eamon gilmore, (the most unconvincing speaker I think I've ever encountered) was no stranger to protesting himself - that was before the power hit him.

There's no danger of them achieving much. Let's face it, if there was then you can bet that the councillors would be up in arms baying for their removal. The very fact that they're still in Eyre Square 6 months on is the very indication that the politicians running the city don't see them as a threat of any kind and, in fact it probably benefits councillors who can readily cite how open to debate and conflicting view points they are because they have the longest running Occupy Camp in the country. Now, if the councillors even said a word to any of the guys there then I'd be surprised.

The only thing that these guys are making me think is that they're a mess. Multiple issues and goals with no common agenda. Frankly I think media and political parties have been more effective in making people think. We can no longer trust that what's shown on the 6 o'clock news is an unbiased presentation of a situation. It took foreign media to tell us what was going on in our own country when the IMF/ECB came to town. Political parties have various agendas and I think people are becoming more adept at reading between the lines there too. Given these two examples, I think the guys hanging around the square are doing very little by comparison.

Gingko

Woohoo! Occupy thread part 2! Tis heating up!!!

Their really not doing any harm ffs! Go to Greece or experience riots in Paris and you will see civil disturbance. Small fenced off cluster in the best part keeping to themselves with a warm welcome for anyone that drops in. I'm from the border originally and was used to regular rioting, petrol bombings, assassinations on all sides and well you name it and it was happening!

They do indeed help get people thinking which is no harm in an increasingly brainwashed monocultural society which is losing it's soul rapidly. I appreciate there are many ways to look at this but in truth I think it boils down to one's own personality type. I certainly don't label them as so called "crusties" or "lefties" as I met a broad spectrum of people at the Dublin group including sympathetic guards, solicitors etc. I'm not a member of the Occupy group by the way and there are interesting viewpoints from both sides.

the realpigiron

Good to see this thread back up and running. It is always healthy to have plenty of forums for debate.

fishy fishy

antoobrien wrote: »

I would argue the exact opposite. They rely on unsourced blogs for their "facts". Show them any documentary evidence to the contrary they dismiss it as propaganda. Actually show product of critical thinking and you're trying to subvert them.

It's my firm opinion that they don't want people thinking for themselves, they want sheep to follow them.

in reality a lot of what the govt are putting out IS propaganda, devious, and designed to put the fear into you. we NEED to have people who question their tactics. The good thing about have a protest is that it comes from the people - their OWN thinking - hence the massive protest in Galway a couple of weeks ago when they came out in their thousands. If I was to call anybody trying to get people "not to think for themsevles" it would the the ones who will make the most out of it. i.e. our dear leaders. They'd LOVE a country of sheeple.

fishy fishy

squonk wrote: »

There's no danger of them achieving much. Let's face it, if there was then you can bet that the councillors would be up in arms baying for their removal. The very fact that they're still in Eyre Square 6 months on is the very indication that the politicians running the city don't see them as a threat of any kind and, in fact it probably benefits councillors who can readily cite how open to debate and conflicting view points they are because they have the longest running Occupy Camp in the country. Now, if the councillors even said a word to any of the guys there then I'd be surprised.

The only thing that these guys are making me think is that they're a mess. Multiple issues and goals with no common agenda. Frankly I think media and political parties have been more effective in making people think. We can no longer trust that what's shown on the 6 o'clock news is an unbiased presentation of a situation. It took foreign media to tell us what was going on in our own country when the IMF/ECB came to town. Political parties have various agendas and I think people are becoming more adept at reading between the lines there too. Given these two examples, I think the guys hanging around the square are doing very little by comparison.

the guys hanging around the square are going with what they believe in. Fair play to them. They are not out to impress anyone - they are there on their own behalf. People can put them down, but its usually the people who want to be "spoonfed" what they should be thinking about. (not personal to your post). The occupy are not there to spoonfeed anybody, they are having a peaceful protest which anyone can join or leave whenever they like, its up to the individual - and long may it last.

All through time protesters have been put down, ridiculed, but the very same people are the very ones that will take anything that the protesters gain, by their very protest - not one of them will hand it back - no problem having someone else do the work for them.

fishy fishy

Congrats to the Vita Cortin protesters who staged a five month "sit in" re. their redundancy payments. It would never have happened without their protest.

Tym

I would argue the exact opposite. They rely on unsourced blogs for their "facts". Show them any documentary evidence to the contrary they dismiss it as propaganda. Actually show product of critical thinking and you're trying to subvert them.

It's my firm opinion that they don't want people thinking for themselves, they want sheep to follow them.

Definetly agree.

hence the massive protest in Galway a couple of weeks ago when they came out in their thousands.

The protest at the labour meeting in NUI Galway?
Yeah I think that was from people from all around the country, and I think it was only in their hundreds.

I personally don't like the propaganda aspect to the various left groups in Galway at the moment:S Walk down the streets and you'll see a collasal amount of posters that are propaganderish, rabble rousing or are incitory to violence. Some groups are even starting to use cartoons, which, in my opinion, create steorytypes and caricatures that are far easier to blame than actual living, breathing people.

Fair ****s to them for sticking it out this long, but I don't think they're really achieving anything, and I think it's slightly arragont for them to claim to be representing the 99%. I never asked them to set up camp, and I definitly don't believe in there political beliefs (the varied and inconsistent political beliefs that there are)

antoobrien

fishy fishy wrote: »

in reality a lot of what the govt are putting out IS propaganda

Records of government expenditure are propaganda now?

fishy fishy wrote: »

devious, and designed to put the fear into you. we NEED to have people who question their tactics.

I can't understand why the government don't come out and say that the banks have been paid less than €20 billion over the past few years. The figures are there, in black and white in the exchequer returns. The outstanding bonds are there on the NTMA website. There's no need to put fear into anybody - if you look at the figures (and have any bit of sense) it's scare the bejaysus out of you without Noonon point out the bleedin' obvious.

fishy fishy wrote: »

The good thing about have a protest is that it comes from the people - their OWN thinking - hence the massive protest in Galway a couple of weeks ago when they came out in their thousands. If I was to call anybody trying to get people "not to think for themsevles" it would the the ones who will make the most out of it. i.e. our dear leaders. They'd LOVE a country of sheeple.

O.G. don't want people to know this we pay out more to recipients of social welfare (JSA, childrens allowance, OAPs, medical cards, rent allowance etc), than we actually have paid to the banks over 4 years.

Red_Wake

Can everyone here state their connection (if any) to Occupy Galway?

I've no affiliation, and am bewildered by them. I'm also quite cynical of them, for the reasons other posters have stated.

fishy fishy

you got my thoughts. Your own thoughts are up to yourself....(or are they??)

fishy fishy

no affiliation, but I believe in the right to protest.

squonk

No affiliation. I believe in the right to protest too but I believe that protestors also have a responsibility to disperse once the point of the protest has been lost.

antoobrien

No affiliation to any political body (yes og is a political body).

squonk

antoobrien wrote: »

No affiliation to any political body (yes og is a political body).

No they're not! It'd help somewhat if they did form themselves into a political body and ran for office. They'd have a chance of achieving something that way at least.

antoobrien

squonk wrote: »

No they're not! It'd help somewhat if they did form themselves into a political body and ran for office. They'd have a chance of achieving something that way at least.

In spirit it not in name, they are a political entity

ben.schlomo

No affiliation to anything political.

I suggested it to OG people in the old thread about setting themselves up as a party and it was simply ignored.

Tym

No affiliation:P

No affiliation to any political body (yes og is a political body).

Hmmm, would they be a lobby group? It's kind of hard to tell what they are at this stage.

biko

I think the problem for OG and the other groups is that they want too much, too soon.
If the Occupy Ireland would have focused on a single issue or two it would have been easier to win respect and sympathy from the 99%

For instance had they just said "we'll sit here until the bankers and the golden circle are brought before a court to answer for what they did" then more people would be able to identify themselves with the OG demands.
Now it's just a big mess of demands and protests that are perceived as leftist and of no use, "you can't find the system" etc.
It's a shame really since it's always refreshing with protests, it's how a society evolves after all.

Gingko

biko wrote: »

I think the problem for OG and the other groups is that they want too much, too soon.
If the Occupy Ireland would have focused on a single issue or two it would have been easier to win respect and sympathy from the 99%

For instance had they just said "we'll sit here until the bankers and the golden circle are brought before a court to answer for what they did" then more people would be able to identify themselves with the OG demands.
Now it's just a big mess of demands and protests that are perceived as leftist and of no use, "you can't find the system" etc.
It's a shame really since it's always refreshing with protests, it's how a society evolves after all.

I think your on the ball here! Too much too soon and scattered! But I still sympathise with the group in general. Most of the Ideals are ethical and for the people and the planet. But yes perhaps one issue at a time?

No affiliation but most definitely warm to the ideals.

Robbo

The Council voted last night to move them on before the Volvo Ocean Race.

They'd fit into the green area outside city hall no problem.

cfeeneyinterior

Robbo wrote: »

The Council voted last night to move them on before the Volvo Ocean Race.

And what was the result?

On a side note, I thought they were going to have live streaming of Council meetings so we could see what honourable work they do for us mere citizens.

Robbo

cfeeneyinterior wrote: »

And what was the result?

On a side note, I thought they were going to have live streaming of Council meetings so we could see what honourable work they do for us mere citizens.

Should have been clearer, the motion was carried 12-3 to have the acting City manager swing the axe.

From the Advertiser's Facebook updates of the meetings, you'd see more mature and coherent governance from a group of mopey teenagers. They're terrible to a man, even the ones who pretend to have principles and hop up on the cross for various causes.

cfeeneyinterior

Yea, I see it on GA Facebook alright. I'd hope that if they knew people were watching them, they might cop the fup on.. . . . . I suppose it will never happen so!
Great to hear they are getting rid of them though. A shame for the people who would have set up camp there with them for the warm summer months and had a nice little hioliday for themselves in the middle of Galway for no rent/camping fees.

squonk

It's about time. You have to hand it to Galway in general for not moving them on for Paddy's day like the other councils but enough is enough at this point. Even if they were there another 10 years they wouldn't make any more of a point than they have already anyway.

Tym

Should have been clearer, the motion was carried 12-3 to have the acting City manager swing the axe.

That will probably make them more relevant:S Now they complain that they're being moved, even though, IMO, they had ample time to air their views. And I did kind of love how we didn't move the occupy camp at St. Patrick's day:P
Although, will the Gaurds actually remove them? Since they're not actually breaking the law, could'nt the Gaurds argue that they can't move them?

antoobrien

Tym wrote: »

Although, will the Gaurds actually remove them? Since they're not actually breaking the law, could'nt the Gaurds argue that they can't move them?

It's not a legal campsite, so I don't see how they haven't been moved on before now.

factual lies

today just keeps getting better and better, great news.

MadYaker

Im honestly not bothered by their presence in the square and I have no desire to see them removed. From the beginning I said their protest or occupation or whatever you want to call it was pointless and would achieve nothing, I think this has been shown to be true.

Can anyone knowledgeable in law please clarify for us if setting up a camp like that in a place like eyre square is illegal or not? I've heard equal numbers of people saying it is and it isn't.

boardzz

Gardai throwing em out right now-finally !!