What do you think of UCD as a university?

lovenotwar

Hi,

I'm currently in 6th year doing the big LC in June! (dreading it) I'm thinking of putting BA joint Arts in UCD first on my CAO. Just wondering what the students think of UCD, would you recommend it? Is it an easy place to make friends? Is it over all a nice place to study?

I've asked around a bit and I seem to be hearing quite a mixed response, was just curious to know what the students think!

Thanks!

shofukan

It's like an American university, only it can't make any money.

bnt

Very old-fashioned in terms of assessment. More often than not, you'll find your progress depends on your ability to memorise stuff and regurgitate it on to bits of dead tree. This even happened in the one computer science course I took, for 50% of the marks: writing out C++ code with a pen. Despite what appears on their website, they haven't really got their heads around the notions of "aligned assessment" or "learning outcomes".

Musefan

The assessment that I have come across has been quite useful & practical. E.g. for a course in practical organisational psychology we were required to actually go out and conduct a job analysis assessment on individuals. When we are assessed on our thesis component, we have to completely design an experiment/investigation ourselves, source participants, apply to ethics boards etc., interpret the findings using SPSS etc & write a thesis, so that assessment really does prepare you for a future in research/clinical/educational etc. psychology. But again that may just be in our school as there are strict regulations as to what a psychology course can entail & assessment as defined by the governing body of psychology.

As a university, I have found it quite pleasant. I live on campus so I spend quite a bit of time here. It's a nice place to go for a walk. I think the admin & registration side of things leaves a lot to be desired, but I only really deal directly with admin people at registration & booking accommodation, so out of the scheme of things I don't have a problem being mildly put out by them just twice a year!

Maldesu

I like it compared to where I have been before. I'm doing the BA joint arts atm. Lectures are huge but the biggest problem is noise from other students but the content is pretty good. If you stay with arts, your lectures will be in the same location for the most part. I used to spend up to 4 lectures in the same room.
From the arts block, there is a walkway to the library (so no need to go outside if its wet), student union shop under that and a deli/costa coffee. Lots of other places for food etc.

Assessment will depend on what subjects you take. In one module I had 1 essay and 4 Multiple Choice Questions with no final exam. Others have been divided into 50% essay/attendance and 50 exam; 70/30 etc. There are a few 100% exams but not so much in 1st year.
College is also in two semesters, so whatever you learn in Sept-Dec will be examined in Dec. The next semester is Jan-April, with exams in May. Would be a nice change from the LC that requires you to remember details from the last 2 years for the exam.

Technology wise, well, it could be improved but if you have a decent laptop that you look after you'll not need it too much. The wifi can be a pain, but its a matter of picking a location or bring in a cable to plug into the network.

Best way for friends is probably having a year in the dorms, join the societies/sports etc and just getting involved.

G'luck

OneOfThem Stumbled

seanor3 wrote: »

It's like an American university, only it can't make any money.

It presumably would if it charged students $40,000 a year like Yale
http://www.architecture.yale.edu/drupal/admissions/tuition_fees

or even the University of New York's relatively cheap $20,000 a year
http://www.nyu.edu/bursar/tuition.fees/rates11/ugcas.html

Offside

I'm studying abroad in a US university where in state rates are around $5,000 a year. The facilities here make me view UCD as a complete farce (obviously I understand there's a huge funding gap, but it will still make it hard to go back to UCD next semester). Little things like free printing, free gym, free organized sporting competitions (like superleague except with 15+ sports represented), free public transport, free physiotherapy if you play any organized sport, 24 hr library, a plug at every seat in the libraries, working wifi throughout campus etc.
There's far more I could go on about but having had my eyes opened up to what other students in other universities have access to has made me bemoan my return to UCD. Not to put you off UCD OP because there's not much better available elsewhere in Ireland, but it's been great to be part of a university where everything just seems to work and bureaucracy doesn't have a habit of getting in the way all the time.

shofukan

seanor3 wrote: »

It's run like an American university, only it can't make any money.

Corrected myself.

Fad

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

It presumably would if it charged students $40,000 a year like Yale
http://www.architecture.yale.edu/drupal/admissions/tuition_fees

or even the University of New York's relatively cheap $20,000 a year
http://www.nyu.edu/bursar/tuition.fees/rates11/ugcas.html

I know of at least one guy in my year and he's paying something that's not totally unlike what a student would pay to go to NYU to attend UCD. International students pay an incredible amount more than EU students.

In general, comparing us to American universities is by and large silly...

shofukan

Fad wrote: »

In general, comparing us to American universities is by and large silly...

I don't know about that. In the sense that the University is run in such a way that its (and I say it referring to admin and Hughie B. and the like) priorities are attempting to maximise profitability and public exposure, with little focus on anything else.

RoundBox11

Offside wrote: »

I'm studying abroad in a US university where in state rates are around $5,000 a year. The facilities here make me view UCD as a complete farce (obviously I understand there's a huge funding gap, but it will still make it hard to go back to UCD next semester). Little things like free printing, free gym, free organized sporting competitions (like superleague except with 15+ sports represented), free public transport, free physiotherapy if you play any organized sport, 24 hr library, a plug at every seat in the libraries, working wifi throughout campus etc.
There's far more I could go on about but having had my eyes opened up to what other students in other universities have access to has made me bemoan my return to UCD. Not to put you off UCD OP because there's not much better available elsewhere in Ireland, but it's been great to be part of a university where everything just seems to work and bureaucracy doesn't have a habit of getting in the way all the time.

5 cent per page isnt asking much considering the printing shop is in debt

The new gym and pool are free to all current UCD students.

In fairness, most of the campus does have wifi. Nowhere on earth can guarantee that the internet can work at full capacity 100% of the time when you have 28,000 students ....

OneOfThem Stumbled

It is a bit disgraceful imo. I've heard that the OAI (O'Sonadaigh arts' institute) in Ballsbridge and the Bertie Ahern school of Economics in Drumcondra both grant free printing.

Offside

Ha alright lads, just pick out one of the perks of this university that I posted amongst a whole load of others to show overall better services here than in UCD and rip me apart on it, good work. With regards to the wifi, it's not impossible, because it works everywhere on campus, I can be out by the pool doing some reading and can call home over viber or skype. I can leave campus and head to the mainstreet and the wifi will extend all along there as well. There's 30,000 students here and I've maybe had wifi troubles twice since August. If I need to go to the mall I can jump on a bus for free.

There's heaps more stuff I could go on about; great, we're all going to have a free gym next year - it's going to be packed all the time. Here there's four gyms so none of them are ever packed. Students get to go free to football and basketball games - in UCD you have to pay to go to a LOI game or a rugby game. This has the effect of boosting attendence, boosting atmosphere, and with a better attendence, and a better atmosphere, ticket sales come out of it. Our football team are ****e and still get 60,000 people at games. It fosters a sense of community and togetherness amongst the students and a real dedication to the university - I'm not saying that this could ever happen in UCD because obviously the college sporting scene is very different over here and a huge earner - but I'm just trying to convey how initially overwhelmed I was by the level of services here when I first arrived - together as a whole. I didn't come in here with a one line post saying "We have free printing, UCD sucks!" - no, we have that as well as many other services.

I love UCD, but having seen how another university can function so well I was just explaining that it'll be strange to come back to a far lower level of services. I'm not complaining because we pay such low fees - but if I were from outside of Europe and paying huge fees, I'd consider that I had huge grounds to feel aggrieved.

Oh and Fad; the only reason I made the comparison to this American university is because it's a state university with fees of $5,000 dollars for instate students who comprise 83% of the undergraduate student body. Those fees are not astronomical.

OneOfThem Stumbled

Offside wrote: »

Ha alright lads, just pick out one of the perks of this university that I posted amongst a whole load of others to show overall better services here than in UCD and rip me apart on it, good work. With regards to the wifi, it's not impossible, because it works everywhere on campus, I can be out by the pool doing some reading and can call home over viber or skype. I can leave campus and head to the mainstreet and the wifi will extend all along there as well. There's 30,000 students here and I've maybe had wifi troubles twice since August. If I need to go to the mall I can jump on a bus for free.

There's heaps more stuff I could go on about; great, we're all going to have a free gym next year - it's going to be packed all the time. Here there's four gyms so none of them are ever packed. Students get to go free to football and basketball games - in UCD you have to pay to go to a LOI game or a rugby game. This has the effect of boosting attendence, boosting atmosphere, and with a better attendence, and a better atmosphere, ticket sales come out of it. Our football team are ****e and still get 60,000 people at games. It fosters a sense of community and togetherness amongst the students and a real dedication to the university - I'm not saying that this could ever happen in UCD because obviously the college sporting scene is very different over here and a huge earner - but I'm just trying to convey how initially overwhelmed I was by the level of services here when I first arrived - together as a whole. I didn't come in here with a one line post saying "We have free printing, UCD sucks!" - no, we have that as well as many other services.

I love UCD, but having seen how another university can function so well I was just explaining that it'll be strange to come back to a far lower level of services. I'm not complaining because we pay such low fees - but if I were from outside of Europe and paying huge fees, I'd consider that I had huge grounds to feel aggrieved.

Oh and Fad; the only reason I made the comparison to this American university is because it's a state university with fees of $5,000 dollars for instate students who comprise 83% of the undergraduate student body. Those fees are not astronomical.

What university is it: because even for in-state students less than $15,000 a year is very unusual.

Moreover, the money has to come from somewhere. Either the student pays at the front door, or he's going to pay at the backdoor when he's getting a job. Fancy paying 5% more income tax to fund multiple free gyms at universities (just in case there's crowding) and consistent wifi? I sure wouldn't.

Offside

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

What university is it: because even for in-state students less than $15,000 a year is very unusual.

Moreover, the money has to come from somewhere. Either the student pays at the front door, or he's going to pay at the backdoor when he's getting a job. Fancy paying 5% more income tax to fund multiple free gyms at universities (just in case there's crowding) and consistent wifi? I sure wouldn't.

It's Chapel Hill, I just checked and it's $7,000 so I was a bit off. Anyway at the end of my post I said I'm not complaining because we pay lower fees here; just that it will be strange to come back to a lower level of service. I am however in favour of a grad tax or student loan system that would inject money into the system and at least make the academics better; as afterall thats what we're here for before gyms etc. Where that money would end up after going through the Bureaucratic layers of UCD would worry me though.
Over the summer I did some business with UCD sports and I was informed that to make payment to them for our sales I would have to do it by a cheque made out to the Sports Centre as from a bank transfer it would go into the ONE UCD main account and there would be no paper trail that earmarked that money as payment to them. I was astounded by this (that being said, it's so astounding he may have been telling me a few tales).

Maldesu

$7000 is just for tuition and fees. Their total estimate for going to Chapel Hill for an instate resident is $20,660. Big difference, and before you say, that it is only a state and they can live near by, North Carolina is nearly twice the size of Ireland, so there are plenty of students who would have to pay that.
All that stuff they don't pay for probably comes for the millions it gets donated to it in land/cash/etc.

Enjoy it while you can cos the RDS is pretty miserable right now.

Offside

Maldesu wrote: »

$7000 is just for tuition and fees. Their total estimate for going to Chapel Hill for an instate resident is $20,660. Big difference, and before you say, that it is only a state and they can live near by, North Carolina is nearly twice the size of Ireland, so there are plenty of students who would have to pay that.
All that stuff they don't pay for probably comes for the millions it gets donated to it in land/cash/etc.

Enjoy it while you can cos the RDS is pretty miserable right now.

Yeah I get that, I was just speaking on a tuition/fees basis as it was direct money into the universities pocket, the others are incidentals based on living fees, some of their estimates are crazy as well -I've probably spent $100 on books, not the grand that they say, I could have spent a grand but made smart use of the library

The culture over here as well is very different, even if you grow up in Chapel Hill, you're out of the house when college starts, it's pretty taboo to live at home. You're right on the donations and I didn't think of it, obviously UCD gets a few but there are huge donations being made by alumni to this university and you can see this just by looking at the names of most of the buildings around and that helps out the university out greatly.

I'm enjoying my last week here in the sunny weather at the moment, dreading a return to a dreary Dublin summer, but I've had an incredibly good run out here - best year of my life, and at the end of the day, none of it would have been possible without UCD. To the OP, bringing this somewhat back on topic, make sure you look into an exchange, you won't regret it and it's one of the best opportunities UCD can offer you.

HavingCrack

Offside wrote: »

The culture over here as well is very different, even if you grow up in Chapel Hill, you're out of the house when college starts, it's pretty taboo to live at home.

People who think like that are partially the reasons Americans get into so much college debt in the States. I know plenty of Americans who lived at home while attending community college before transferring to a state school university for the final two years which was within commuting distance and these are the one's with the lowest amounts of debt.

If you're living off your parents money away from home you're haven't really moved out at all. If your parents are happy for you to stay home and commute moving out is a massive waste of money considering the cost of university in America.

HavingCrack

Offside wrote: »

Over the summer I did some business with UCD sports and I was informed that to make payment to them for our sales I would have to do it by a cheque made out to the Sports Centre as from a bank transfer it would go into the ONE UCD main account and there would be no paper trail that earmarked that money as payment to them. I was astounded by this (that being said, it's so astounding he may have been telling me a few tales).

He's talking bollocks. I've worked in UCD admin part time alongside my studies for the last few semesters and he's just talking pure ****e. No idea why he's doing so though.

Offside

HavingCrack wrote: »

People who think like that are partially the reasons Americans get into so much college debt in the States. I know plenty of Americans who lived at home while attending community college before transferring to a state school university for the final two years which was within commuting distance and these are the one's with the lowest amounts of debt.

If you're living off your parents money away from home you're haven't really moved out at all. If your parents are happy for you to stay home and commute moving out is a massive waste of money considering the cost of university in America.

Yeah I should have added that it's a requirement to live on campus for your first year - no matter where you live. You're free to live wherever after that but most won't go back - most of my friends have jobs to pay their rent, their parents or loans help them with tuition but I don't know many people who are getting a free ride off their parents.

Also thanks for clearing that up about UCD sport, I'll have some words when I'm back in town!

Blut2

I've known plenty of Americans studying abroad here over the past few years and without exception they've all been horrified at the availability and quality of services in UCD. 5 years ago when fees were minimal it was possible to just shrug your shoulders and say "well eh, at least its free" in response. The continual upward trend in registration fees is bringing UCD closer and closer in terms of tuition fees to in-state state school tuition in the U.S. though.

These rising fees combined with the cost-cutting measures introduced across Belfield in the last few years do not lead to flattering comparisons to most comparable international institutions.

onlylola

Guys, this isn't a thread about how UCD compares (or doesn't) to American Universities.... Stick to the original question? What's UCD like to study in? Is it difficult to make friends, etc. etc.

beardedmaster

I love the place!
It's fantastically easy to make friends, and the people in general are a great bunch.
The lecturers, in general, are also very good! Of course there's a few duds, but sure what harm!

Siuin

I think UCD is a brilliant university, and I say that as someone who has changed courses in order to study here and have seen what it's like elsewhere. My professors are by and large fantastic and really interested in what they teach, which really comes across in how they engage with the subjects. I genuinely enjoy my course (Engish and history) and find the topics very interesting.

And the fact that I'm saying this during exam time... well, I think it says something :P

Btw-- while everyone's entitled to their opinion and to speak negatively about UCD, I do think some individuals should be a whole lot more grateful for the fact that they have even made it to third level education at all and have the lifestyles that they do... just saying.

onlylola

Siuin I think UCD is a brilliant university, and I say that as someone who has changed courses in order to study here and have seen what it's like elsewhere. My professors are by and large fantastic and really interested in what they teach, which really comes across in how they engage with the subjects. I genuinely enjoy my course (Engish and history) and find the topics very interesting.

And the fact that I'm saying this during exam time... well, I think it says something

Btw-- while everyone's entitled to their opinion and to speak negatively about UCD, I do think some individuals should be a whole lot more grateful for the fact that they have even made it to third level education at all and have the lifestyles that they do... just saying

Siuin Heyy... thanks for that reply! What's English like at UCD? I'm thinking of putting it down as I highly doubt I'll get the points for TCD (it doesn't bother me too much though, I preferred UCD on the open day in November)

What type of stuff are you studying? Are the lecturers good? Do you have small tutorials as well as lectures? Any info on the course would be really appreciated!

onlylola

Oh and Beardedmaster... Are you doing arts? Or what are you studying? I'm just curious as I know Arts is probably the largest faculty at the university and the sheer size of it is quite daunting!

Pedant

RoundBox11 wrote: »

5 cent per page isnt asking much considering the printing shop is in debt

I wonder why that is ... hmm ... UCDSU overspending and wasting the Union fee contribution on frivolous crap such as the UCD Ball and nights out.

RoundBox11 wrote: »

The new gym and pool are free to all current UCD students.

The gym and pool doesn't exist yet. The last gym (Crunch Fitness) wasn't free, so why is this one going to be - where did UCD get all this money all of a sudden?

errlloyd

Pedant wrote: »

The gym and pool doesn't exist yet. The last gym (Crunch Fitness) wasn't free, so why is this one going to be - where did UCD get all this money all of a sudden?

Because you paid a 250e student centre levy for the last 6000 years. Future students will probably have a mandatory levy which covers the gym, just like Trinity do, but in effect it's a ****ing awesome building and worth it every day of the week.

If you've a problem that you didn't get your money worth from the SU opt out, you have a constitutional right to, and if you write a letter to Pat De Brun he'll sort it out. You'll get your 20 euro back, but historically the SU have done a huge amount for UCD. Read bygone belfield, its a blog that details the history of the college. Simple things like having a bus shelter at the 39a stop, having the trap for the years we did, having the bar, having the SU centre, having printing and copying facilities, having access to free contraception, having discounted medical care with free access to counselling, having someone trying their ****ing best to stand up for your rights to education, or privacy if you live on res. All these things the SU gives you.

And if you have a problem that for one day a year the college gets to host a massive festival that is the ****ing envy of the 5 universities in Ireland that don't get one you need to take a step back and ask yourself if you know the meaning of fun? The UCD ball as a spectacle is absolutely incredible, its only a couple of years old and its faced challenges past and future, but SU officers have worked tirelessly to get over those. I know if I was an NUIG student and a UCD student told me that for one day a year their whole college shuts down, a stage rolls out, everyone has a few drinks enjoys the weather (good or bad) and listens to bands that may not be filling stadiums, but are getting radio and club time, I'd be jealous.

20 euro a year man, you'd swear membership was costing you a grand.

Siuin

onlylola wrote: »

Siuin Heyy... thanks for that reply! What's English like at UCD? I'm thinking of putting it down as I highly doubt I'll get the points for TCD (it doesn't bother me too much though, I preferred UCD on the open day in November)

What type of stuff are you studying? Are the lecturers good? Do you have small tutorials as well as lectures? Any info on the course would be really appreciated!

English in UCD is really great- the material they choose is very interesting and even for less thrilling aspects of English such as Medieval literature, they really do try their best to make it appealing to the students. I would highly recommend it. Definitely put English down on your CAO and don't leave choosing subjects until you get there. It's a very popular course and my cousin waited until she'd enrolled only to find that there were no spaces left.

The spectrum of what we study is really broad. In first year you basically get a taste of poetry, prose and plays from every era and of many styles. The results of this year don't count towards you final degree. Then in second year you can choose from your favourite areas. For example, I really enjoyed writing about American plays and novels in first year, so I took modern American literature in second year. Basically, you tailor the course to suit your own interests.

There's also a really great feature of arts in UCD which allows you to do one module outside of your course each semester. I got a chance to learn Arabic and Russian through this, and it was really nice to have a break from the usual material I'd be studying and try out something different. You can choose anything- creative writing, philosophy, history, Irish folklore, a whole bunch of languages- the list is endless!

Our lecturers are fantastic- quite a few are very witty which makes everything so much more enjoyable, and they're very approachable if you have a problem or just want to chat about an aspect of the course.

Yes, we have small tutorials (about 15 people max in each of mine) and they're *extremely* important to attend. Not just because 10% of your overall grade is often for attendance, but it's basically where everything from the lectures is broken down and discussed in depth.

brownlad

we are unreal.

Maldesu

Siuin wrote: »

English in UCD is really great- the material they choose is very interesting and even for less thrilling aspects of English such as Medieval literature, they really do try their best to make it appealing to the students. I would highly recommend it. Definitely put English down on your CAO and don't leave choosing subjects until you get there. It's a very popular course and my cousin waited until she'd enrolled only to find that there were no spaces left.

If you are taking English make sure you have the time to dedicate to it. There is a lot of reading to be done esp. in Coming Age of Narratives. There are 3 group projects over the year which require research and the workload can depend on the the other members.
If you want English make sure its on your CAO form as there were no places left when the year began. Two modules are compulsory and dependant on moving to Second Year. Literature in Context 1 + 2. If you have an interest in history, this course will appeal to you, but if you are taking it with History, be ready for a heavy workload.

If you want more specifics you can PM me.

beardedmaster

onlylola wrote: »

Oh and Beardedmaster... Are you doing arts? Or what are you studying? I'm just curious as I know Arts is probably the largest faculty at the university and the sheer size of it is quite daunting!

Hiya onlylola. I'm a Science student (snarf) - another quite a big class. But don't let the size of any faculty or class intimidate you! It's so easy (let alone enjoyable), to make new friends with people every day by just sitting beside them in the lecture and having the banter - I met some of my very best friends in college by just that.

If you're a bit too shy for that kinda thing, then I've one thing to say to you - get involved, problem solved! The range of clubs and societies set up by students for students is fantastic, and I seriously recommend getting involved with them, as they're brilliant. Drama, music, film-making, debating, soccer, rugby, GAA, musicals, Dutch Gold... whatever your interest, it's all catered for! The people that you find in them will amaze you at their talent and skill at whatever particular field, and will end up, or are doing it professionally.
Infact even if you have a load of friends in your course, get involved with clubs and societies anyway - you'll really have a great time, and one fantastic aspect about them is that you can get to know people really well that are doing completely different and diverse courses, but you have an interest in common with them, and would never have met them otherwise.

I'm not from Dublin, but over 20 people out of my year in secondary school came to UCD. While I'm friends with all of them, I made sure to not just hang around with those people only - get to know more people! Another great thing to do would be, say, you're doing Arts, and your friend from secondary school is doing Law - go out with your friend and his Law buddies sometime! It's always great to get to know people that are in the same year as you but are a different course, as even when you just meet them around the concourse, the sheer camaraderie of meeting someone you know randomly, and having a chat - it's great! When I was in 1st year, by Christmas I couldn't walk from my accommodation to my lectures without bumping into at least one person I know, which is fantastic considering the size of the place!

I wasn't feeling the best when I came to UCD, but the sheer friendliness of the atmosphere and how welcoming all the academics, peer mentors and everyone is fantastic in trying to get you to feel at ease in University.

Pedant

errlloyd wrote: »

If you've a problem that you didn't get your money worth from the SU opt out, you have a constitutional right to, and if you write a letter to Pat De Brun he'll sort it out. You'll get your 20 euro back, but historically the SU have done a huge amount for UCD.

Beyond the point I was trying to make really, though I think that paying the Union fee should be an option on registration. The UCDSU hasn't functioned right for many years. It's too focused on Ents than anything else, probably one of the main reasons why the photocopying facilities were shut. How do you explain why UCDSU is in so much debt.

errlloyd wrote: »

Read bygone belfield, its a blog that details the history of the college. Simple things like having a bus shelter at the 39a stop, having the trap for the years we did, having the bar, having the SU centre, having printing and copying facilities, having access to free contraception, having discounted medical care with free access to counselling, having someone trying their ****ing best to stand up for your rights to education, or privacy if you live on res. All these things the SU gives you.

Getting a bus shelter for the 39a stop isn't an amazing achievement, to be honest - I don't see why it would cost too much to put one up. They should have tried a little harder to keep the number 10 in service. I'd honestly close the Student Bar to save the printing and copying facilities - I think more people use those than the bar. Where's this "free" contraception - you referring to shag week? A couple of thousand condoms, big bloody deal. Discounted medical care? Not any more, I wonder why...hmm. The UCDSU should focus all their funds on education, educational facilities, welfare and counselling. Scrap the rest, UCDEnt should be scrapped, the college has societies for those things sort of things. The Union should prioritize on what's important.

errlloyd wrote: »

And if you have a problem that for one day a year the college gets to host a massive festival that is the ****ing envy of the 5 universities in Ireland that don't get one you need to take a step back and ask yourself if you know the meaning of fun?

Envy me arse, Trinity's one is far better every year. I don't think the Union should be spending most of it's funds on a piss up instead of educational facilities. You come to college for an education, first and foremost, the fun and games are purely secondary.

errlloyd wrote: »

The UCD ball as a spectacle is absolutely incredible, its only a couple of years old and its faced challenges past and future, but SU officers have worked tirelessly to get over those.

"Challenges" is an understatement. Remember last year? The Ents officer (how much was he paid?) didn't do a tap all year to get the UCD Ball sorted out, nearly got cancelled.

errlloyd wrote: »

I know if I was an NUIG student and a UCD student told me that for one day a year their whole college shuts down, a stage rolls out, everyone has a few drinks enjoys the weather (good or bad) and listens to bands that may not be filling stadiums, but are getting radio and club time, I'd be jealous.

20 euro a year man, you'd swear membership was costing you a grand.

If an NUIG student had a free photocopying service, I'd be envious.

errlloyd

Pedant wrote: »

Beyond the point I was trying to make really, though I think that paying the Union fee should be an option on registration. The UCDSU hasn't functioned right for many years. It's too focused on Ents than anything else, probably one of the main reasons why the photocopying facilities were shut. How do you explain why UCDSU is in so much debt.

A: Ents breaks even and has always broken even.
B: If its so ents focussed why did it take the ents officer out of the new constitution
C: UCD is a town of 20,000 people with no entertainment facilities, I'm glad someone is trying to create some sort of fun for students.
Those photocopy facilities were losing 48,000e a year.

Getting a bus shelter for the 39a stop isn't an amazing achievement, to be honest - I don't see why it would cost too much to put one up. They should have tried a little harder to keep the number 10 in service. I'd honestly close the Student Bar to save the printing and copying facilities - I think more people use those than the bar. Where's this "free" contraception - you referring to shag week? A couple of thousand condoms, big bloody deal. Discounted medical care? Not any more, I wonder why...hmm. The UCDSU should focus all their funds on education, educational facilities, welfare and counselling. Scrap the rest, UCDEnt should be scrapped, the college has societies for those things sort of things. The Union should prioritize on what's important.

A: Its hard to get bus stops because they're paid for by Adshel which is a company that didn't see marketing potential in UCD stops because no cars drive by. So the union campaigned, as easy as it may have been to campaign it was the only body there that could do it, be glad.
B: Why keep in place a bus that went from Phoenix Park to UCD, when they replace it with a bus that goes from UCD to PP more regularly, and a bus that goes from UCD to Blanchardstown more regularly. Its a win win, I'm sorry you have to walk to the main road, its 4 minutes, get over it.
C: On that note I can't count the amount of times the SU has had to campaign keeping brining busses on campus beacuse of students getting drunk and wrecking them.
As of next year the SU will have 0 ents officers, 2 education officers, 1 welfare officer and 1 president. Happy?
E: You can go to the welfare officer and get free condoms.
F: Ok you don't like the ball or the bar, I get it. But no society could ever do something like the ball or the bar, having run for auditor of UCD's largest society I know the limits of society power.
G: UCD Doctor 40e, General Practioner in Clonskea, 65e. UCD Nurse appointment 10e, equivalent medical care outside UCD 65e, UCD contraception consultation 25e, Clonskea contraception consultation 65e, UCD Counsellor free, outside of UCD counselling, pretty ****ing expensive.

Envy me arse, Trinity's one is far better every year. I don't think the Union should be spending most of it's funds on a piss up instead of educational facilities. You come to college for an education, first and foremost, the fun and games are purely secondary.

Matter of opinion, I know they envy it, in fact I was talking to two trinity students last night who envry ours. Whats your problem with the union spending money on secondary priorities then? Especially when as I already said, it ****ing breaks even.

"Challenges" is an understatement. Remember last year? The Ents officer (how much was he paid?) didn't do a tap all year to get the UCD Ball sorted out, nearly got cancelled.

Challenges, at the last moment An Garda Schiochana pulled the plug on the event, he then started a campaign, to get it back, got it re-arranged, managed to save a huge number of the acts, and put it on? You don't call that a challenge, Get real.

If an NUIG student had a free photocopying service, I'd be envious.

No one had, or ever has had a free photocopying service. Tell you what, opt out of the union as aforementioned and spend your 20 euro on photocopying. It seems all you care about.





So far your posts have indicated very little knowledge of the union or how it operates. Your arguing with someone who has never been an elected member of the union but has been involved enough to know how it operates.

Does it have flaws? Yeah, its closer to coal then diamond. Is it a reason not to come to UCD, no. Do you get your moneys worth from 20 euro? Easily.

Raphael

Ok, some important misconceptions in your post. Firstly, the copy shop wasn't the campuswide photocopying service that the college provides, it was the shop in the library tunnel where lecturers could leave notes in for people. It was used by a minority of students, and solely arts, and facilitated lecturers that refused to get with the times and use blackboard, the college offered free digital service that fulfilled the same function. I'd imagine more people used the bar in any given month than used it in a year.

Secondly, the Unions brief is:

Article 2 – Fundamental Objectives
2.1
The objectives of the Union shall be the promotion and furtherance of any matters of interest to
its membership, and without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, in particular:
2.1.1 To act as the recognised means of communication between the members of the
Union and the University.
2.1.2 To act as a representative body for its members and other persons registered as
students of the University.
2.1.3 To promote the practice of democratisation at all levels of higher education through
collective and individual participation of the members of the Union.
2.1.4 To provide and manage social, recreational and commercial services for the benefit of
its members.
2.1.5 To promote discussion and research on all matters of interest to the Union, and
particularly on matters pertaining to the education and welfare of the members and
other persons registered as students of the University.
2.1.6 To assist clubs, societies and other student organisations within the University.
2.1.7 To seek to promote the objectives of the Union through developing and maintaining
good relations with students and student bodies in other higher education
institutions, both within Ireland and elsewhere.
2.1.8 To develop and maintain good relations with the University.
2.1.9 To secure and defend the fundamental rights of its members set out in Article 4 of
this Constitution.
2.1.10 To strive for an effective and united system of national student representation.
2.1.11 To develop the Irish language among its members, and throughout the University.

The SU is not, and has never been, designed and intended to provide educational facilities - Doing so is actually going against their mandate. However providing social activities like the UCD ball is absolutely part of their purview. If you want the Union to change it's goals, then get a petition going to amend the constitution and change their responsibilities.

Thirdly, I have no figures for this, but it's always been my understanding that the UCD Ball runs at a net profit, and is one of the main ways in which Ents is funded. I may be wrong on that, however.

And finally, an emergency general meeting was called during this year to protest the closing of a UCDSU educational facility. Only 157 people showed up, of which only 56% were in favour of overturning the decision. I can't find a figure, but I understand more than 5000 people attended the UCD Ball.

UCDSU is intended as a representative organisation - what it's supposed to do is what it's members want, not what you might feel is best for them.

Pedant

errlloyd wrote: »

A: Ents breaks even and has always broken even.
B: If its so ents focussed why did it take the ents officer out of the new constitution
C: UCD is a town of 20,000 people with no entertainment facilities, I'm glad someone is trying to create some sort of fun for students.
Those photocopy facilities were losing 48,000e a year.

Why is UCDSU in so much debt?

errlloyd wrote: »

A: Its hard to get bus stops because they're paid for by Adshel which is a company that didn't see marketing potential in UCD stops because no cars drive by. So the union campaigned, as easy as it may have been to campaign it was the only body there that could do it, be glad.
B: Why keep in place a bus that went from Phoenix Park to UCD, when they replace it with a bus that goes from UCD to PP more regularly, and a bus that goes from UCD to Blanchardstown more regularly. Its a win win, I'm sorry you have to walk to the main road, its 4 minutes, get over it.

39a goes into the campus, you don't have to walk from the main road. 46a is from the main road. The 46a is usually packed to the rafters between 8am and 10am. It's a safety hazard sometimes.

errlloyd wrote: »

C: On that note I can't count the amount of times the SU has had to campaign keeping brining busses on campus beacuse of students getting drunk and wrecking them.

On piss-ups that Ents were probably helping to fund.

errlloyd wrote: »

As of next year the SU will have 0 ents officers, 2 education officers, 1 welfare officer and 1 president. Happy?

Certainly an improvement, long way to go though.

errlloyd wrote: »

F: Ok you don't like the ball or the bar, I get it. But no society could ever do something like the ball or the bar, having run for auditor of UCD's largest society I know the limits of society power.

Plenty of bars and clubs in town. Don't need a bar or a ball on campus to have fun.

errlloyd wrote: »

No one had, or ever has had a free photocopying service. Tell you what, opt out of the union as aforementioned and spend your 20 euro on photocopying. It seems all you care about.

Why don't I have an opt out option or a choice on registration if I want to pay the union fee or not? Why do I have to make the effort to write to a union rep to count me out?

errlloyd

Why is UCDSU in so much debt?

There is no overriding factor. It lost lots of money on lots of small things. About 40,000 unrecorded payments were made, you could presume that's all going to ents, but it'd be conspiracy. I'd say a lot of unrecorded taxis and stuff mainly.

39a goes into the campus, you don't have to walk from the main road. 46a is from the main road. The 46a is usually packed to the rafters between 8am and 10am. It's a safety hazard sometimes.

You're trying to blame UCDSU for safety on the 46a? The 46a is never packed after 9, and tits not that bad before 9 I used to get the 46a to school, our stop was 2 stops before UCD and half the bus would get off. Why would the SU try and help students get away from UCD between 8 and 10 in the morning anyway?

On piss-ups that Ents were probably helping to fund.

Ents scrapped drinks tokens, they don't fund any piss ups. If anything societies are more likely to fund piss ups.

Plenty of bars and clubs in town. Don't need a bar or a ball on campus to have fun.

I presume you'd want every UCD student to get a taxi home from town if they wanted to have a quiet pint with a few mates? And maybe you'd want them to pay town prices for drinks? **** it sure, there are bars in town, why bother having bars anywhere in the suburbs. There is a tesco in mount merrion, why do we need a centra? The bar makes money.

Why don't I have an opt out option or a choice on registration if I want to pay the union fee or not? Why do I have to make the effort to write to a union rep to count me out?

The students voted on creating a union, they voted on its cost, they voted that it would opt out not opt in, they voted on the levies. You have to do it because your peers decided it. Its democracy man, if you don't like we have an exchange program with North Korea.

Maldesu

Pedant wrote: »

Why is UCDSU in so much debt?

Until the accounts are published there is no clear answer, but part of it probably will be a combination of mismanagement, lack of knowledge and no accountant.

Pedant wrote: »

39a goes into the campus, you don't have to walk from the main road. 46a is from the main road. The 46a is usually packed to the rafters between 8am and 10am. It's a safety hazard sometimes.

It's fine and not the only bus. The 39a also goes on this road, as does the 3, the 145 and other buses (though more infrequent).

Pedant wrote: »

On piss-ups that Ents were probably helping to fund.

Ents can hardly be held responsible for the poor behaviour of a few out of 20,000

Pedant wrote: »

Plenty of bars and clubs in town. Don't need a bar or a ball on campus to have fun.

It certainly helps.

Pedant wrote: »

Why don't I have an opt out option or a choice on registration if I want to pay the union fee or not? Why do I have to make the effort to write to a union rep to count me out?

I know, that's awful that you'd have to take the trouble to write to the SU rep. I can imagine the stress typing must be. It would take you about 5 mins to send an email. You obviously have no difficulty using a keyboard. :rolleyes:

Pedant

errlloyd wrote: »

There is no overriding factor. It lost lots of money on lots of small things. About 40,000 unrecorded payments were made, you could presume that's all going to ents, but it'd be conspiracy. I'd say a lot of unrecorded taxis and stuff mainly.

errlloyd wrote: »

Ents scrapped drinks tokens, they don't fund any piss ups. If anything societies are more likely to fund piss ups.

Unrecorded payments, aye...

errlloyd wrote: »

I presume you'd want every UCD student to get a taxi home from town if they wanted to have a quiet pint with a few mates? And maybe you'd want them to pay town prices for drinks? **** it sure, there are bars in town, why bother having bars anywhere in the suburbs. There is a tesco in mount merrion, why do we need a centra? The bar makes money.

Not every UCD student lives on campus. You'd have to get a taxi/nitelink home anyway if you were there into the night.

errlloyd wrote: »

The students voted on creating a union, they voted on its cost, they voted that it would opt out not opt in, they voted on the levies. You have to do it because your peers decided it. Its democracy man, if you don't like we have an exchange program with North Korea.

I don't see why a union, supposedly independent of the bureaucracy in UCD, should have the right to push their fees (no matter how large or small) on students who didn't ask for them in the first place. "Democracy" is no excuse here. Membership in a Union (any union) should be voluntary, not compulsory on registration (edit: unless one is explicitly required to be a member by UCD). The only people who have the right to vote in union elections (from what I gather) are those who are members of the union in the first place. In hindsight, what you're saying is "You have no choice but to pay the union fee on registration (which makes you a member) because that was the decision of our members". People should have the right to choose if they want to deal if a private organisation or not (like a union). In this case, the right to choose supersedes democracy. I wouldn't be suprised if the Union was helping with those exchange programs to North Korea, unions and socialists tend to think alike.

Pedant

Maldesu wrote: »

I know, that's awful that you'd have to take the trouble to write to the SU rep. I can imagine the stress typing must be. It would take you about 5 mins to send an email. You obviously have no difficulty using a keyboard. :rolleyes:

That's not the point, it's the principle behind it. When I pay on registration, some of that money goes to the Union. Membership of the union is voluntary, yet some of the money I pay on registration goes to it. Yes, I can get it back, but I shouldn't have been made pay in the first place if I didn't need to pay.

errlloyd

I don't see why a union, supposedly independent of the bureaucracy in UCD, should have the right to push their fees (no matter how large or small) on students who didn't ask for them in the first place. "Democracy" is no excuse here. Membership in a Union (any union) should be voluntary, not compulsory on registration (edit: unless one is explicitly required to be a member by UCD). The only people who have the right to vote in union elections (from what I gather) are those who are members of the union in the first place. In hindsight, what you're saying is "You have no choice but to pay the union fee on registration (which makes you a member) because that was the decision of our members". People should have the right to choose if they want to deal if a private organisation or not (like a union). In this case, the right to choose supersedes democracy. I wouldn't be suprised if the Union was helping with those exchange programs to North Korea, unions and socialists tend to think alike.

1: You've paid tax you're whole life, sometimes in democracies you have to pay for ****. Its 20e.

2: Membership of unions cannot be compulsory its unconstitutional, not talking SU here, I am talking Irish constitution.

3: Student's Unions are not private they are public. The decision was that all students should be members till they opt out.

4: You have no right to choose to pay tax, it doesn't not supersede democracy. I can't believe you're still arguing this.

5: Ask Karl Gill (Auditor of UCD SWP) what he thinks of you saying the Union is left wing. He'll flip the lid, he hates the union. In fact the students union is infamously right wing on most issues.

Pedant

errlloyd wrote: »

1: You've paid tax you're whole life, sometimes in democracies you have to pay for ****. Its 20e.

Tax is compulsory. The Union fee and membership is not. Therefore, why can't I have a choice on registration? We're back to square one. Saying "it's what your peer decided", in not an adequate answer. If you have a right to choose, then you should have the right to choose. Simples.

errlloyd wrote: »

Membership of unions cannot be compulsory its unconstitutional, not talking SU here, I am talking Irish constitution.

Yes. Which is why students should have a choice or opt out option on registration if they don't want to be a member of it.

errlloyd wrote: »

Student's Unions are not private they are public.

Since when were Students' Unions public, do they receive state funding.

errlloyd wrote: »

You have no right to choose to pay tax, it doesn't not supersede democracy. I can't believe you're still arguing this.

Again TAX IS COMPULSORY, THE UNION FEE IS NOT!!

errlloyd wrote: »

The decision was that all students should be members till they opt out.

So someone who doesn't want to be a member has to on registration but can claim it back and opt out later, even though they made up their decision that they didn't want to be a member before registration. The only reason this is done is because the union hopes that students will overlook the union fee and forget that they can claim it back and opt out. In hindsight, it's just a way for the Union not to loose money.

errlloyd wrote: »

Ask Karl Gill (Auditor of UCD SWP) what he thinks of you saying the Union is left wing. He'll flip the lid, he hates the union. In fact the students union is infamously right wing on most issues.

Depends on what he hates about the student union.

Maldesu

Pedant wrote: »

That's not the point, it's the principle behind it. When I pay on registration, some of that money goes to the Union. Membership of the union is voluntary, yet some of the money I pay on registration goes to it. Yes, I can get it back, but I shouldn't have been made pay in the first place if I didn't need to pay.

You can argue the principal all you want, but sometimes its not about the one individual person. From a different point of view it could be something like this:

Large amount of Leaving Cert students are entering college who may not understand the importance of having representation until it is too late.
Arrange for membership to the SU to be included in the fees so that they have the automatic protection of the SU, rather than getting caught later on because they decided that €20 was better spent picking up a few tins of Dutch or the like.

That's only an idea, but sometimes these things are implemented for a reason, not just to get the extra 20 quid. Why don't you find out what (or if) that reason is for, rather than crying how hard done by you are by it.

spillit67

Personally, overall I didn't enjoy my time in UCD that much. However, I'd blame myself for that more than UCD.

Unfortunately in retrospect having a good University on your doorstep wasn't such a good thing for me. My travel didn't change much, it was still 10 minutes from my house to my education. Financially speaking it was cheaper than school for my parents so there was never much of an issue over it. Getting there was more important than actually considering my time and what I wanted out of university once I got there.

After the Leaving Cert and the CAO stuff, it was like a holiday in fact from my perspective. I got my results and did the usual things between then and University and drank a **** load during Semester 1. Only it was mainly with friends from school. Several did the exact same course as me so already I had a social set and didn't need to make much of an effort. Yes I know, I was one of those cliquey spanners you see at the start of college. It was a natural thing though and I didn't put much thought into it, sorry about that.

I made new friends alright, don't get me wrong but honestly they wouldn't nearly be as good ones as those I made during my teenage years. Part of that is down to my sheer lack of engagement with the place. I didn't join a society or a sports club, why bother when I was already playing rugby with my friends at another club? I lived at home so didn't have the engagement a lot of freshers have in student residences. Lectures? No point in 1st year sure.

Unfortunately I didn't really recognise this until late in my 2nd year by which time plenty of people find themselves hanging around with people from Uni more than their friends made in school. The comfort trap of being a South County Dublin person in UCD is a very easy one to fall into.

I honestly think it damaged my education as well. The absolute ease of life living at home compared to friends who went away really didn't help me value it as much as I should have. I was never really engaged or motivated during my time in UCD and I really regret it. In hindsight I would have definitely gone away for college and taken myself out of my comfort zone completely. A good life lesson I suppose though and I still got a pretty good degree from a pretty good University.

So my advice: Before you go to UCD actually consider what you want from it and don't just congratulate yourself on getting X points in the LC. Engage in a society (even a political party) and don't be like me and leer at some of them (I did this in 1st year, I'm sorry again) and just collect the bag of crap they give you to join.

spillit67

errlloyd wrote: »

1: You've paid tax you're whole life, sometimes in democracies you have to pay for ****. Its 20e.

2: Membership of unions cannot be compulsory its unconstitutional, not talking SU here, I am talking Irish constitution.

3: Student's Unions are not private they are public. The decision was that all students should be members till they opt out.

4: You have no right to choose to pay tax, it doesn't not supersede democracy. I can't believe you're still arguing this.

5: Ask Karl Gill (Auditor of UCD SWP) what he thinks of you saying the Union is left wing. He'll flip the lid, he hates the union. In fact the students union is infamously right wing on most issues.

Did anyone see the Phoenix magazine having a go at DeBrúin this week? I thought it was pretty unfair myself.

Pedant

Maldesu wrote: »

You can argue the principal all you want, but sometimes its not about the one individual person. From a different point of view it could be something like this:

Large amount of Leaving Cert students are entering college who may not understand the importance of having representation until it is too late.
Arrange for membership to the SU to be included in the fees so that they have the automatic protection of the SU,

Couldn't give hoot to be honest. If they want the representation they can can opt to pay the fee, simple really. Also, having such an opt out system in place on registration would put pressure on the union to perform when needed or else they'll be loosing out on funding - a good thing in my books. It's teach the union, and the student, the value of responsibility.

Maldesu wrote: »

rather than getting caught later on because they decided that €20 was better spent picking up a few tins of Dutch or the like.

:rolleyes: If the student wishes to pay that €20 on Dutch gold, let them, it should be their choice. Waster students don't deserve to be represented.

Maldesu wrote: »

That's only an idea, but sometimes these things are implemented for a reason, not just to get the extra 20 quid. Why don't you find out what (or if) that reason is for, rather than crying how hard done by you are by it.

It had its reasons, but they're leading to more problems. The union is becoming a cozy place for careerists. There isn't enough pressure put on the unions to perform. This is the case with Unions up and down the country, not just in students' unions.

kkumk

Not aiming this at anyone in particular so there's no point in quoting anyone.
I emailed UCDSU earlier in the year complaining about their Fight the Fee's stance. I argued that as I was in favour of a loan system, my union were not representing me properly and I asked could I opt out. Both Lacey and De Brún replied, and surprisingly both were very nice and well informed emails, quite lengthy too.
De Brún said this in relation to my request to opt out:
'It is not at my discretion to allow you to opt out of the SU. The Universities Act states that all students must be members of their Students' Unions.'

So Pedant, stop blaming the SU and their socialist, anti-democratic ways when it's actually the Irish Governments fault Ask them for your twenty euro...

errlloyd

kkumk wrote: »

I argued that as I was in favour of a loan system, my union were not representing me properly and I asked could I opt out. Both Lacey and De Brún replied, and surprisingly both were very nice and well informed emails, quite lengthy too.

De Brun and Lacey are both in favour of a loan system / graduate tax too. I dunno if they told you in the emails but USI is taking an online poll of all students (who are arsed voting) starting next week and running till the 20th.

http://www.usivote.com/

There is the information, I will actually start a thread about it. You can vote for a student loan in that if you wish, I will be voting for it with you.

Pedant

kkumk wrote: »

Not aiming this at anyone in particular so there's no point in quoting anyone.
I emailed UCDSU earlier in the year complaining about their Fight the Fee's stance. I argued that as I was in favour of a loan system, my union were not representing me properly and I asked could I opt out. Both Lacey and De Brún replied, and surprisingly both were very nice and well informed emails, quite lengthy too.
De Brún said this in relation to my request to opt out:
'It is not at my discretion to allow you to opt out of the SU. The Universities Act states that all students must be members of their Students' Unions.'

So Pedant, stop blaming the SU and their socialist, anti-democratic ways when it's actually the Irish Governments fault Ask them for your twenty euro...

And here's me thinking it was unconstitutional for membership of any union to be compulsory. Looks like I'm not the only one who doesn't know fully how the SU operates.

Right so, I'll go throw eggs at the Oireachtas. I'd love to know where exactly it says that in the Universities Act though, I'm too lazy to look it up.

stop

errlloyd wrote: »

Simple things like having a bus shelter at the 39a stop

This might have been relevent back in the 19-somthings before adshel tookover the bus shelters, now its unthinkable for there not to be one, this is nothing to do with the current SU, everything to do with advertising.

The 39a et al stop are being moved within the next few weeks, do you think:

a) the SU have any idea where they are moving to

b) the SU have lobbied on the new location

c) the SU's opinion its location actually considered

d) the existance of a shelter and the SU's opinion on it's existance was considered

srsly.

The SU should stick to sticking up for individual students who are in difficulty. This is something they are good at and makes a difference.

This BS of ents needs to die, waste of f*ucking money so that the ents officer can have a backup for when he fails his exams (while skimming undeclared money from clubs on the side). Students know how to have craic, without the SU.

Focus on welfare & education. Focus on the f*ucking vunerable. Focus on the f*ucking library. If the SU had morals, it might even oppose the china w*ankfest that UCD is up to. But it wont.

Straw poll, how many people have seen the dominos delivery guy struggling to carry a f*uckload of pizza into the SU? Kylemore too good for them?

kkumk

errlloyd wrote: »

De Brun and Lacey are both in favour of a loan system / graduate tax too. I dunno if they told you in the emails but USI is taking an online poll of all students (who are arsed voting) starting next week and running till the 20th.

Yea I've been following the campaign etc! When I emailed them I wasn't aware they supported a loan system/graduate tax because at that stage the Fight the Fee's stuff was the only thing ever promoted by the SU. This was before they tried to get that referendum going though and obviously I'm happy enough with their efforts now Nice to see they're actually listening to the students instead of just pushing ahead with the 'we don't want to pay for anything, ever.' policies!! :rolleyes: