Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Air Corps Cadetship 2012
Options
Comments
-
Suits has pretty much said it all - most Irish military cadetships are reserved for the children of serving officers. The few that aren't seem to be reserved for members of their county minor GAA team.0
-
Thanks guys for the great insight into the real situation re the cadetships,this knowledge alone would be more than ample to discourage the best of candidates from applying.
- The main concern would be that what would happen if a non relative or friend of the families happened to get through the system on merit and ability alone, how would he or she be treated.
- Would there be an air of resentment towards him or her as they would have been seen to have taken a place of one their own.
0 -
Well hardly, whatever the truth or otherwise of nepotism. It's not that much of a closed shop. Plenty get in with no connections at all. There aren't that many sons and daughters keen to follow Dad's footsteps, like Suits.localcentra wrote: »Thanks guys for the great insight into the real situation re the cadetships,this knowledge alone would be more than ample to discourage the best of candidates from applying.
[*]The main concern would be that what would happen if a non relative or friend of the families happened to get through the system on merit and ability alone, how would he or she be treated.
[*]Would there be an air of resentment towards him or her as they would have been seen to have taken a place of one their own
It's ironic really that given how difficult it is to get into the Air Corps that some pilots are so keen to get out when they can. Once an Air Corps heli was passing nearby and he called up on frequency to give his position. We exchanged some friendly calls and I told him he had my dream job. His reply was 'And you have mine'. The grass isn't always greener.0 -
Thanks XFLYER ,the impression one would get from the other posters is that it is a closed shop, family only, like the family only open days they have.0
-
Personally, I would take what Suits says with a pinch of salt. He has an inflated opinion of his own ability(not good in a pilot!). Snobs might be a better name for him. He'd be better selling the planes than flying them...
If you're into the army and flying: Go for it! What have you to lose? Absolutely nothing. Go in and expect to come out with no more than interview and assessment experience. If you get it, it's a bonus.
The amount of s*ite flung around this forum sometimes makes me think I'm in a slurry pit.0 -
Advertisement
-
localcentra wrote: »Is it worth the bother to apply for this thing or would one be better off going down the commercial route to get your pilots wings,'
How long do you have to sign up for with the army after you get the training with them or can you leave after you get your wings and then go to aerryanbus for the better money.
Also could they train you just on choppers? this wouldnt be much good for the future prospects , it would be better to go on the jets first thing in my opinion anyway.
It's really a no brainer if you manage to get in. It will save you a fortune and Airlines care where your training was done these days.
Air Corp training and background is highly considered when applying for Irish Airlines.
Where you do your training will have a big influence on your future prospects. Just having the hours doesn't cut it these days.0 -
It's really a no brainer if you manage to get in. It will save you a fortune and Airlines care where your training was done these days.
Air Corp training and background is highly considered when applying for Irish Airlines.
Where you do your training will have a big influence on your future prospects. Just having the hours doesn't cut it these days.
There is absolutely no guarantee you will be trained on fixed wing. In fact it's likely you won't be. Then you're tied there for 8 years. It's moronic to look at the air corps cadetship as a leg up in the airline pilot industry. In times long gone, when you were all but guaranteed a seat in a fixed wing aircraft, then yes, you would come out of it with a glowing CV, but it's not like that anymore.0 -
-
Personally, I would take what Suits says with a pinch of salt. He has an inflated opinion of his own ability(not good in a pilot!). Snobs might be a better name for him. He'd be better selling the planes than flying them....
Personally I'm not sure why you seem to follow me round and have a go at me whenever I post anything without offering a counter point. I struggle to see how I have an inflated opinion of myself. Most of the examples you seem to flag up on this forum are times when I have weighed up pros and cons and done what I felt was the right course of action. As I have the right to do along with everyone else. I offer my opinion from my point of view and people dont have to take it. However I grew up around the army and come from what you could term a military family...so I'm well versed in how it all works.
Kumsheen -It's really a no brainer if you manage to get in. It will save you a fortune and Airlines care where your training was done these days.
Air Corp training and background is highly considered when applying for Irish Airlines.
Where you do your training will have a big influence on your future prospects. Just having the hours doesn't cut it these days.
You could not be more wrong or misleading if you tried! Joining the air coprs will save you the price of a PPL and cost you 8 years of your life. 5-20% at most get fixed wing and an even smaller amount of them have their ATPLs/IR paid for by the air corps.(only the govt jet guys and maybe coastal patrol)
In the 50s/60s/70s Aer Lingus took ex air corps guys as they were the only pilots going really that the time, plus as aer lingus was state owned it was seen as somewhat of a "state pension" for guys leaving the air corps. Hand and glove if you like.
NOW most airlines dont see the air corps as anything special really. Most guys have heli time and will have to go through a flight school like the rest of us to get their ATPL/CPL/MEIR, so their air corps time doesnt really get them too far. That being said RAF guys would get some currency out of their time there as there is a lot more fixed wing guys.
Globally(as seen in the US) commercial airlines are moving away from the ex military wink wink nod nod system and viewing everyone on a level playing field.
Anybody who thinks that the air corps will put them above anyone from a jobs point of view in irish airlines is sadly mistaken and will realise this in 8-10 years if they try and follow that road. You save yourself no money in the long run...maybe 12k from a guy who went straight. Weigh that against the 8+ years you spent in the air corps and you realise that if I start now on my own flight school route and you go to the air corps...I'm a captain in an airline when you get out of the air corps and start your atpls. So from a commercial point of view if you want to be in an airline go do that...if you want to be in the air corps....do that, but the air corps wont get you a leg up anymore!0 -
Personally I'm not sure why you seem to follow me round and have a go at me whenever I post anything without offering a counter point. I struggle to see how I have an inflated opinion of myself. Most of the examples you seem to flag up on this forum are times when I have weighed up pros and cons and done what I felt was the right course of action. As I have the right to do along with everyone else. I offer my opinion from my point of view and people dont have to take it. However I grew up around the army and come from what you could term a military family...so I'm well versed in how it all works.
Well, you did say...In any case my father was in the army(former army cadet) so if I did apply I most likely would have gotten it.
And...Again on the commercial issue....I spoke to 2 guys doing their ATPLs after 8 years in the corps....I did my ppl in 6 weeks....they spent 8 years in the air corps flying helis....and we were more or less on an even footing with me, as they informed me their heli time would not be too much of an advantage for jobs.0 -
Advertisement
-
Eitlean - 1stly I gave you that carrot on struggling to see my inflated opinion knowing you would seize on it and so show that you actually have to valid point to add to the debate.
Stating that my father was a former cadet and so I would get in has nothing to do with me....and that's my point when I say that! It shows that no matter who I am if I was connected I'd be in(as my brother was)
And well your last point(along with most of that post) is really scraping the barrel.....I state that I did my PPL in 6 weeks not looking for praise..I'm saying that with 6 weeks of flying under my belt I was on an even footing from a commercial ladder point of view with air corps guys who had 8 years in helis....and it was them who told me that!0 -
Eitlean - 1stly I gave you that carrot on struggling to see my inflated opinion knowing you would seize on it and so show that you actually have to valid point to add to the debate.
Stating that my father was a former cadet and so I would get in has nothing to do with me....and that's my point when I say that! It shows that no matter who I am if I was connected I'd be in(as my brother was)
And well your last point(along with most of that post) is really scraping the barrel.....I state that I did my PPL in 6 weeks not looking for praise..I'm saying that with 6 weeks of flying under my belt I was on an even footing from a commercial ladder point of view with air corps guys who had 8 years in helis....and it was them who told me that!
Ah Suits, there's no need to blow the fuse plugs!
All I was saying is ya need to relieve the back pressure. Trim it a bit, if you know what I mean...0 -
-
The Air Corps was not neccessarily a golden ticket into the airlines even in my time. In fact I personally know of situations where a former Air Corps pilot, a former officer found himself sitting right seat with a Captain who was once an NCO in the Air Corps.
I know several lads who enlisted in the Air Corps and used their time to get their CPLs and moved onto the airlines. Meanwhile their superior officers flew less hours and took eight years, as suits points out, to get to the point where they could apply for a civvie job.
One of the notable features of the recent PC9 accident was the relative lack of hours flown. Several Air Corps enlisted personnel worked part time as Instructors on their days off and had greater currency than their full time officer pilot colleagues.
Still I would love to have had a career in the Air Corps.0 -
Hi XFLYER, as a hopeful cadetship candidate myself this year may I commend you on your comment that you would have loved a CAREER in the AIR CORPS , I hope that I get the opportunity to get in so I could have a career there also .
Too many of the pilots in the AC have used the state to springboard their commercial aviation ambitions at a huge cost to the state.
As regards your comment on the pc9 incident how was lack of hours flown notable as a factor.?
I ask this out of genuine interest in the AC.0 -
Sorry to jump into thread but Pc9 accident was CFIT ? Sure the deceased instructor / commander had ample hours ?0
-
localcentra wrote: »As regards your comment on the pc9 incident how was lack of hours flown notable as a factor.?
I ask this out of genuine interest in the AC.
If you look at the air accident report into the incident here, the instructor had less IFR (Instrument flight rules) flying done in the previous 12 months to the accident than the cadet pilot. It highlighted how little flying is done by the officers in Baldonnell and all of the recommendations were to improve and change the way the sorties are done in the AC, highlighting a lack of professionalism regarding the way training was conducted prior to the incident. It was very critical of the AC and they sought to get an injunction to prevent it from being released.0 -
Thanks DK.....that puts that ? To bed.0
-
Over the years I have met many current and ex Air Corps pilots and one constant complaint was the the relatively few hours they flew each year. Of course, it being the military there are always other jobs to be done for officers. It's not that different in foreign militaries either, it must be said.
Delta Kilo
It that true? I never suspected that. Any source. I thought the delay came from another source.It was very critical of the AC and they sought to get an injunction to prevent it from being released.0 -
There was a thread on it here before around the time the report was released.
This article which came out after the report was released explains the reasons.0 -
Advertisement
-
Delta Kilo wrote: »There was a thread on it here before around the time the report was released.
This article which came out after the report was released explains the reasons.
My understanding was the delay came as a result of Capt Furniss' family being unhappy with his portrayal in the report.
On another note officers in the AC do a relatively small number of hours each year. Two years ago I met an AC officer at the Mater Aeromed Unit and we got chatting. He was 12 years in the AC and had time on helis, the 172s, the kingair and mostly the CASA. Altogether after 12 years in he had total time of roughly 2,500 hrs0 -
Delta Kilo wrote: »If you look at the air accident report into the incident here, the instructor had less IFR (Instrument flight rules) flying done in the previous 12 months to the accident than the cadet pilot. It highlighted how little flying is done by the officers in Baldonnell and all of the recommendations were to improve and change the way the sorties are done in the AC, highlighting a lack of professionalism regarding the way training was conducted prior to the incident. It was very critical of the AC and they sought to get an injunction to prevent it from being released.
It's actually that fact among others that had lead to air corps pilots not getting much of a leg up commercial wise on normal joes. Many civilian pilots have more hours logged in the previous year than the air corps guys. I know Aer Lingus questioned how current retired air corps pilots were when they applied for jobs. There was also of course the issue of many many air corps guys have less fixed wing time that civilians(as they claimed heli hours for CPL issue etc)0 -
Yup that was a lot if it, while on the other hand cadet jevens family wanted it released to indemnify their songlobemaster1986 wrote: »
My understanding was the delay came as a result of Capt Furniss' family being unhappy with his portrayal in the report.0 -
localcentra wrote: »Is it worth the bother to apply for this thing or would one be better off going down the commercial route to get your pilots wings,'
How long do you have to sign up for with the army after you get the training with them or can you leave after you get your wings and then go to aerryanbus for the better money.
Also could they train you just on choppers? this wouldnt be much good for the future prospects , it would be better to go on the jets first thing in my opinion anyway.
with that type of train of thought, I'd stay well clear of it. They'll see the "whats in it for me atitude" in a nano second. Aer Corps you go in with nothing but getting throught the process in mind, then enjoying your career.....if avenues happen or open later on, deal with them then.0 -
The running joke among officers in the DFs is that if there was a war vast parts of families would be wiped out, and also if we had the one son rule half the army would be sent home....However nepotism does not seem to extend to enlisted air corps personnel...just the cadets.
I'll give you an example....my brother is a 2nd LT in the army...his cadetship interview consisted of the panel asking how my dad was(he had to retire due to illness), he was asked a bit about playing rugby and told he'd make a good addition to the army's team with a smile.....
As far as I know also(my father told me this) there used to be no guarantee that you would get the air corps or navy, your performance in your basic officer training could dictate otherwise(ie fear of heights...cant swim) and currently there is even less chance of flying fixed wing aircraft. If you dont perform well in flight training also you will be stationed on the ground or in ATC....for 8 years.....I know at least 2 guys had that issue!
Any air corps guys I've ever spoken too havent really spoken too highly of the whole experience and seem to be counting the months until they can bail out.
Again on the commercial issue....I spoke to 2 guys doing their ATPLs after 8 years in the corps....I did my ppl in 6 weeks....they spent 8 years in the air corps flying helis....and we were more or less on an even footing with me, as they informed me their heli time would not be too much of an advantage for jobs.
You mentioned the aer lingus cadetship....and I suppose you can say that ANY cadetship should not be entered into without knowing all the facts.....seeing how the aer lingus one turned out so well!:rolleyes:
What utter and total drivel, this guy is such a dreamer.. Please ignore everything he says.
I admit the AC has its faults and that many pilots struggle to keep current but the drivel from this guy is actually quite funny.
Couple of small points: IF his brother is a LT in the Army I can assure everybody that his selection board interview was far more involved then he says.
This is particularly funny "As far as I know also(my father told me this) there used to be no guarantee that you would get the air corps or navy, your performance in your basic officer training could dictate otherwise(ie fear of heights...cant swim)":
This has never been the case, and to put everybody's minds at ease, AC pilots are not selected based on lack of fear of heights and Naval Officers are not selected based on ability to swim!!
If you don't perform well in your flight training you fail and are discharged, some guys may have been offered a line commission to be employed in ATC etc. (having to pass the ATC course also)
Your commitment to the AC post wings is 12yrs and not 8 as mentioned.
Nepotism is not alive and well in the DF and particularly not in the AC, true some AC Pilots sons have become AC pilots but there selection was based on merit only, this is true for the Army also. There are plenty of Enlisted family dynasty's in the DF and even the AC.
The guys who speak about nepotism are typically guys who did not make the grade and are looking for someone else to blame, of course the AC would have seen this personality trait, and hence the failure to be offered a Cadetship!
And finally a PPL is not the same as a CPL/ATPL.. do i really need to explain the differences.
Please folks disregard this guy, if you want to apply do so, if you are good enough you will be selected if not get on with your life and take it as a learning experience.0 -
Thanks for all the info guys , didnt realise that by asking a simple question that I would open such a can of worms.
Fired off my application for the AC today anyway and await to see what happens ,
I take it that things are a bit different now in Casement since all the recent recomendations have been implemented .the GF had expressed her concerns .0 -
What utter and total drivel, this guy is such a dreamer.. Please ignore everything he says.
I admit the AC has its faults and that many pilots struggle to keep current but the drivel from this guy is actually quite funny.
Couple of small points: IF his brother is a LT in the Army I can assure everybody that his selection board interview was far more involved then he says.
This is particularly funny "As far as I know also(my father told me this) there used to be no guarantee that you would get the air corps or navy, your performance in your basic officer training could dictate otherwise(ie fear of heights...cant swim)":
This has never been the case, and to put everybody's minds at ease, AC pilots are not selected based on lack of fear of heights and Naval Officers are not selected based on ability to swim!!
If you don't perform well in your flight training you fail and are discharged, some guys may have been offered a line commission to be employed in ATC etc. (having to pass the ATC course also)
Your commitment to the AC post wings is 12yrs and not 8 as mentioned.
Nepotism is not alive and well in the DF and particularly not in the AC, true some AC Pilots sons have become AC pilots but there selection was based on merit only, this is true for the Army also. There are plenty of Enlisted family dynasty's in the DF and even the AC.
The guys who speak about nepotism are typically guys who did not make the grade and are looking for someone else to blame, of course the AC would have seen this personality trait, and hence the failure to be offered a Cadetship!
And finally a PPL is not the same as a CPL/ATPL.. do i really need to explain the differences.
Please folks disregard this guy, if you want to apply do so, if you are good enough you will be selected if not get on with your life and take it as a learning experience.
It's clear you have no idea what you're on about and it is badly evident in your post above!
On the selection board point anybody in the DF will tell you that happens, it's a small military and very tight knit! My dad actually knew who his panel was before my brother went to the interview.
It is well known and in fact stated several times in the advanced stages of the cadetship selection process that if you do not perform in basic your cadetship may be transferred to the army(away from the navy or air corps).
The small numbers of cadets that are taken in per intake means that there is enough space to commission guys for ops on the ground and then perhaps give them another shot at flight training after a while.
You are tied in for 12 years on your commission but can leave after 8 if you wish(once it is deemed you are not getting anything for free)Nepotism is not alive and well in the DF and particularly not in the AC, true some AC Pilots sons have become AC pilots but there selection was based on merit only
RUBBISH! Across the Army, Air Corps and Navy fathers have for years got their sons onto cadetships and enlisted with almost no questions asked. Many cadetships dont actually get advertised(as my brother's wasnt) and this is done so that only DF personnel know about it!
I have a lifelong experiance of the DF from my childhood and I can tell you that the LAST place I would EVER go is there. It is a waste of years of your life and there are plenty of air corps pilots who will tell you that! Infact many fathers will warn their sons off it and only get them in if they dont think they can do much else(or the son wants to go)
Finally at no point did I say a PPL was the same as a CPL/ATPL so I'm not sure where you got that from......seems you were a bit busy trying to think of reasons to disagree with me....and you actually made one up...0 -
It's clear you have no idea what you're on about and it is badly evident in your post above!
On the selection board point anybody in the DF will tell you that happens, it's a small military and very tight knit! My dad actually knew who his panel was before my brother went to the interview.
It is well known and in fact stated several times in the advanced stages of the cadetship selection process that if you do not perform in basic your cadetship may be transferred to the army(away from the navy or air corps).
The small numbers of cadets that are taken in per intake means that there is enough space to commission guys for ops on the ground and then perhaps give them another shot at flight training after a while.
You are tied in for 12 years on your commission but can leave after 8 if you wish(once it is deemed you are not getting anything for free)
RUBBISH! Across the Army, Air Corps and Navy fathers have for years got their sons onto cadetships and enlisted with almost no questions asked. Many cadetships dont actually get advertised(as my brother's wasnt) and this is done so that only DF personnel know about it!
I have a lifelong experiance of the DF from my childhood and I can tell you that the LAST place I would EVER go is there. It is a waste of years of your life and there are plenty of air corps pilots who will tell you that! Infact many fathers will warn their sons off it and only get them in if they dont think they can do much else(or the son wants to go)
Finally at no point did I say a PPL was the same as a CPL/ATPL so I'm not sure where you got that from......seems you were a bit busy trying to think of reasons to disagree with me....and you actually made one up...
More drivel..
Cadetships are always advertised, the AC has never taken a Cadet commissioned them and then at some point in the future given the, a shot at flight training.
An Air Corps cadets financial commitment is based on 12yrs, no AC officer would be permitted to resign or retire before that period. As far as I am aware it has never been 8yrs and the minimum has been 10yrs, but it is 12 yrs now.
You stated that your PPL had you at the same point as the AC pilots with there ATPL and this was not the case.
I think it is very clear that the reason that the AC is the last place you would ever go is that you were found unsuitable at the interview.0 -
I have never heard such bull in all my life. I actually went to the bother of creating an account to reply. Without giving the game away I can categorically dismiss most of what this muppet, Suits, is going on about.On the selection board point anybody in the DF will tell you that happens, it's a small military and very tight knit! My dad actually knew who his panel was before my brother went to the interview.
It is well known and in fact stated several times in the advanced stages of the cadetship selection process that if you do not perform in basic your cadetship may be transferred to the army(away from the navy or air corps).
The small numbers of cadets that are taken in per intake means that there is enough space to commission guys for ops on the ground and then perhaps give them another shot at flight training after a while.
You are tied in for 12 years on your commission but can leave after 8 if you wish(once it is deemed you are not getting anything for free)
RUBBISH! Across the Army, Air Corps and Navy fathers have for years got their sons onto cadetships and enlisted with almost no questions asked. Many cadetships dont actually get advertised(as my brother's wasnt) and this is done so that only DF personnel know about it!
I have a lifelong experiance of the DF from my childhood and I can tell you that the LAST place I would EVER go is there. It is a waste of years of your life and there are plenty of air corps pilots who will tell you that! Infact many fathers will warn their sons off it and only get them in if they dont think they can do much else(or the son wants to go)
Finally at no point did I say a PPL was the same as a CPL/ATPL so I'm not sure where you got that from......seems you were a bit busy trying to think of reasons to disagree with me....and you actually made one up...
1. You cannot leave after 8 years. Contract is 12 years from commissioning and no sooner.
2. All cadetships are advertised. No wings course has been run for some special individual as this plonker is claiming. No pilots come from within the organisation unless they go through a full cadetship.
3. The Air Corps use a third party civilian company to assess the cadet pilot candidates thereby removing any claims of nepotism. Those who have been through the process would know this and believe me it is a grilling based solely on merit and technical knowledge.
4. Air Corps pilots complete a CPL course and are eligible for an ATPL after they build up the required number of hours.
5. Air Corps pilots, rotary and fixed wing, do just fine in the commercial world after leaving the service. Having recently retired I can attest to this.:)
I eagerly await another crazy, poorly informed reply.0 -
Advertisement
-
Gonna have to suggest ladies put their handbags away ! Guilty myself in the past of to and fro but on this medium its pointless..
Suits you passed a few comments to me on a recent post which came across as a little arrogant, You seem to be very certain on a few points despite only been a newly minted cpl'er ... Lets all just get along and respect other people's views, Don't force them on people. I am sure you have some good points to add but to be fair your method of delivery is off putting...
You would isolate yourself fairly quickly in any airline with that attitude.
Take it or leave it or bounce a reply... either way just suggesting a tone change. We all have a common interest here so lets cultivate it.0
Advertisement