Should Ireland reintroduce capital punishment?

bananarama22

Sorry Mods if there is a thread on this already. And feel free to move to another forum if need be.

For violent crimes I seriously believe that capital punishment should exist in this country, for crimes such as murder, rape, drug dealing, gang membership, several criminal records, espionage/treason and perjury resulting in the imprisonment of an innocent person.

I was just reading this article and I can understand that execution was postponed due her being pregnant, as killing her while pregnant is essentially a forced abortion. But I am absolutely gob-smacked that her execution has been reduced to life without parole.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/03/16/sacramento-mom-accused-of-microwaving-baby-pleads-not-guilty/

Again mods, sorry if there is a similar thread so feel free to lock / move or pm me if there is an issue.

tigger123

The death penalty is state sanctioned murder, no more, no less. And it's also revenge, not justice IMO. Nobody has the right to take the life of another human being.

MagicSean

I'd rather they just kept people in prison for the time they are given.

Mr Benevolent

tigger123 wrote: »

The death penalty is state sanctioned murder, no more, no less. And it's also revenge, not justice IMO. Nobody has the right to take the life of another human being.

But state sanctioned murder is quite normal, otherwise what's the army for?

token101

bananarama22 wrote: »

Sorry Mods if there is a thread on this already. And feel free to move to another forum if need be.

For violent crimes I seriously believe that capital punishment should exist in this country, for crimes such as murder, rape, drug dealing, gang membership, several criminal records, espionage/treason and perjury resulting in the imprisonment of an innocent person.

I was just reading this article and I can understand that execution was postponed due her being pregnant, as killing her while pregnant is essentially a forced abortion. But I am absolutely gob-smacked that her execution has been reduced to life without parole.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/03/16/sacramento-mom-accused-of-microwaving-baby-pleads-not-guilty/

Again mods, sorry if there is a similar thread so feel free to lock / move or pm me if there is an issue.

How very liberal of you :pac: You want to kill people for perjury?

ejmaztec

MagicSean wrote: »

I'd rather they just kept people in prison for a lot more time than they are given at the moment.

fyp

bananarama22

token101 wrote: »

How very liberal of you :pac: You want to kill people for perjury?

Well perjury which results in the execution or imprisonment of an innocent person...

Not for silly things like "I'm sorry your honour, but I forgot I had no insurance or TV license", WINK WINK :cool:

tigger123

Confab wrote: »

But state sanctioned murder is quite normal, otherwise what's the army for?

I don't agree with an army killing people either.

token101

Confab wrote: »

But state sanctioned murder is quite normal, otherwise what's the army for?

What???

The army, in theory, is for defending a country. Whilst that's not always what it's used for, that's what it's supposed to be for. Not slaughtering people. When was the last time the Irish army murdered someone?

tigger123

bananarama22 wrote: »

Well perjury which results in the execution or imprisonment of an innocent person...

Not for silly things like "I'm sorry your honour, but I forgot I had no insurance or TV license", WINK WINK :cool:

So, you do believe in the death penalty for no insurance or TV licence? ... WINK WINK ???

hightower1

I agree OP, bring it in. For the most serious of crimes only of course.
Criminas in this ountry hav escillated their activities and clearly do not fer the justice system. Lets give them something to fear.

bananarama22

tigger123 wrote: »

So, you do believe in the death penalty for no insurance or TV licence? ... WINK WINK ???

NO !!! Read my post :rolleyes:

frag420

I used to believe in an eye for an eye. However as has happened time and time again people have been found to be inncocent after new evidence pops up, advances in DNA, investigative techniques etc. Death is too immediate and final.

I do believe in labour camps though. Let these muderous, thieving, raping scumbags give something back to society bu making them clean roads, build schools or whatever. It would save a lot of labour costs, they may learn a skill should they ever get released. I know it is not very practical and there would be security cost for having crims outside prison walls cleaning up somewhere or building a rd but I would rather that than paying to have them sit on their arsehole in a cell doing nothing.

El Inho

no because a life of imprisonment is MUCH better than offing them.

but, the life of imprisonment in Ireland is far too good.

They should be made sing for their supper. Working in chain gangs on potholes etc. I actually can't understand why this has never been implemented in Ireland. Also there meals should cos practically nothing!

Great example in America I can't think of who makes them all wear pink

But yeah...guess this is kinda all inmates, but this is one way of showing how they are more valuable dead than alive

frag420

:rolleyes:


great mind think alike!!

No, they all just need a good hiding when they are kids. Problem sorted.

Monty Burnz

eldwaro wrote: »

no because a life of imprisonment is MUCH better than offing them.

'Life' in Ireland is about 15 years these days. Murder someone when you are twenty and you'll almost certainly be out in your thirties. And of course many killers are only convicted of manslaughter.

jaja321

It has no place in a civilised society IMO. It serves no purpose, only to enact revenge.

MagicMarker

No.

/thread

ejmaztec

The rest of the EU countries wouldn't be very happy if it were reintroduced here.

Cianos

There have been many threads on this before.

• Executing someone costs more than incarcerating them for life.
• Stats show that it is an ineffective deterrent for serious crimes.
• Many innocent people have had their names cleared after years of imprisonment due to the advancement of technology. The death penalty will mean killing innocent people.

bananarama22

ejmaztec wrote: »

The rest of the EU countries wouldn't be very happy if it were reintroduced here.

Then tell the EU to fcek off :-P
Some of the hard-right politicians in the UK want to reinstate it.

bananarama22

Cianos wrote: »

There have been many threads on this before.

• Executing someone costs more than incarcerating them for life.
• Stats show that it is an ineffective deterrent for serious crimes.
• Many innocent people have had their names cleared after years of imprisonment due to the advancement of technology. The death penalty will mean killing innocent people.

Without sounding facetious, a firing squad consisting of 10 people, (with approximately €2 per bullet ?? ) .. the guns are obviously reusable. Keeping a prisoner in jail costs several thousand per year alone. If the death penalty will never be reintroduced, I would like to see forced labout as one previous gentleman on this thread suggested. But oviously the over zealous civil service and unions would get their knickers in a twist with their "dey tuk er jerbs" jive.

mikemac1

And the UK are incompetant, couldn't find a killer for Jill Dando so they stictched up a local man who was vunerable and not mentally well

bananarama22 wrote: »

I would like to see forced labout as one previous gentleman on this thread suggested. But oviously the over zealous civil service and unions would get their knickers in a twist with their "dey tuk er jerbs" jive.

Not realy and it has nothing to do with the civil service but maybe the councils

For one example, Fingal cut back on cleaning their beaches, there's a good job for prisioners

Taking nobodys job as Fingal are not doing it

ejmaztec

bananarama22 wrote: »

Then tell the EU to fcek off :-P
Some of the hard-right politicians in the UK want to reinstate it.

They'd be telling us to do that.

There are always right-wing politicians, and brainless tabloid readers who want the death penalty reintroduced, but thankfully those Neanderthals never get a look in.

jack presley

bananarama22 wrote: »

I was just reading this article and I can understand that execution was postponed due her being pregnant, as killing her while pregnant is essentially a forced abortion. But I am absolutely gob-smacked that her execution has been reduced to life without parole.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/03/16/sacramento-mom-accused-of-microwaving-baby-pleads-not-guilty/

.

An I missing something OP? That woman hasn't even gone on trial yet so how can her sentence be reduced? And even if (when) she is found guilty, an execution would takes years to be carried so if she is pregnant at the moment (no mention in that article) her kid would probably be a teenager before she was executed.

bananarama22

mikemac1 wrote: »

And the UK are incompetant, couldn't find a killer for Jill Dando so they stictched up a local man who was vunerable and not mentally well



Not realy and it has nothing to do with the civil service but maybe the councils

For one example, Fingal cut back on cleaning their beaches, there's a good job for prisioners

Taking nobodys job as Fingal are not doing it

True, but you know the public sector Jerbs fer de bhoys :pac:
Besides you'd have a bunch of liberal clowns protesting about it. Prisoners out in public cleaning beaches might be a security threat and take away from the pleasantness and serenity of walking on the bach or a child playing on the beach.

bananarama22

jack presley wrote: »

An I missing something OP? That woman hasn't even gone on trial yet so how can her sentence be reduced? And even if (when) she is found guilty, an execution would takes years to be carried so if she is pregnant at the moment (no mention in that article) her kid would probably be a teenager before she was executed.

But it says prosecuters are not looking for execution.

Cianos

bananarama22 wrote: »

Without sounding facetious, a firing squad consisting of 10 people, (with approximately €2 per bullet ?? ) .. the guns are obviously reusable. Keeping a prisoner in jail costs several thousand per year alone. If the death penalty will never be reintroduced, I would like to see forced labout as one previous gentleman on this thread suggested. But oviously the over zealous civil service and unions would get their knickers in a twist with their "dey tuk er jerbs" jive.

The costs are mainly legal. It's not just a case of taking the accused and leading him out the door to be killed. There's a lot more to it than that, and rightly so.

ejmaztec

bananarama22 wrote: »

But it says prosecuters are not looking for execution.

Probably because the woman is nuts.

mikemac1

bananarama22 wrote: »

Besides you'd have a bunch of liberal clowns protesting about it. Prisoners out in public cleaning beaches might be a security threat and take away from the pleasantness and serenity of walking on the bach or a child playing on the beach.

Which is why you send them out during the summer around six am

They'd be back in prision by nine am
Nobody on the beach at that hour only joggers and they can look after themselves

bananarama22

ejmaztec wrote: »

Probably because the woman is nuts.

Insanity does not cause you to nuke a child, especially your own. Put her in a microwave

Dannyg90

A must harsher punishment would be life imprisonment without parole in solitary confinement where food is pushed into your cell through a trap. With a rule that any contact with prison officers would be silent, also ban visitors. The criminals would soon go mad with zero outside contact or human interaction and they'd have the whole time to think about their crimes

token101

bananarama22 wrote: »

Well perjury which results in the execution or imprisonment of an innocent person...

Not for silly things like "I'm sorry your honour, but I forgot I had no insurance or TV license", WINK WINK :cool:

You do realise that when someone's life is on the line, they have nothing to lose! So they'll probably lie! So you'll be executing a lot of innocent people aswell? How about just not executing people?

Snickers Man

"Only in sever cases" ???

Quite right! Those who chop bits off deserve to get the chop.

Chop! Chop!

Actually, being only slightly less facetious, I take the view that there are enough chances of lunatics ending my life prematurely (muggers, drunk drivers, drug addicts, mad Norwegian racists) without giving the state the judicial right to do so as well.

So no. And we have spoken as a people in a referendum a few years ago so the government CAN'T introduce the death penalty even if they wanted to.

Without holding a second referendum, that is.

ejmaztec

bananarama22 wrote: »

Insanity does not cause you to nuke a child, especially your own. Put her in a microwave

Yes, it's a perfectly sane thing to do, I'm surprised "baby microwavers" isn't registered as a charity.

hooradiation

bananarama22 wrote: »

Some of the hard-right politicians in the UK want to reinstate it.

That's because they're pandering to the stupidest elements in the electorate.

Sergeant

Something pretty primitive and medieval about killing someone to show people that killing someone is wrong.

jack presley

bananarama22 wrote: »

jack presley wrote: »

An I missing something OP? That woman hasn't even gone on trial yet so how can her sentence be reduced? And even if (when) she is found guilty, an execution would takes years to be carried so if she is pregnant at the moment (no mention in that article) her kid would probably be a teenager before she was executed.

But it says prosecuters are not looking for execution.

Yeah that as well. I don't know why the OP picked that case as an example. There has been no trial yet, the prosecution aren't looking for the death penalty etc.

token101

bananarama22 wrote: »

Then tell the EU to fcek off :-P
Some of the hard-right politicians in the UK want to reinstate it.

Which 'hard right' politicians? So Ireland should take its cues from the BNP and UKIP now?

MellowToast

human rights keep getting in the way of proper punishment for scum

people who have no idea how terrible humans can be tend to not want capital punishment

prisons are just a different word for hotel imo

the vast majority commit criminal acts again when they are set free

it is very hard to know what should be done. the only belife I have is if you take some1s life then your human rights should be ripped from you. that includes clean water (they should be given disease ridden water) and the likes. this is never gona happen in my life time and i am only 23...so lets just not employ anyone who has been in prison (haha which is already the case). they already have their criminal jobs, they don't need 2nd chances from good people, who should give those jobs to other good people. their bad people that end up in prison, why should we care if they can't get a job, if their 12 offspring are hungry or if they have no education.

people make their own choices in life, that effect the kids as well i know, but bad people will make bad choices for themselves and set bad examples to their offspring. good people make good choices in life and so their offspring will excel at life. this is what the world has ALWAYS been like.

bad people will never change is my point, they will just get worse with every generation.

hooradiation

MellowToast wrote: »

human rights keep getting in the way of proper punishment for scum

people who have no idea how terrible humans can be tend to not want capital punishment

prisons are just a different word for hotel imo

the vast majority commit criminal acts again when they are set free

it is very hard to know what should be done. the only belife I have is if you take some1s life then your human rights should be ripped from you. that includes clean water (they should be given disease ridden water) and the likes. this is never gona happen in my life time and i am only 23...so lets just not employ anyone who has been in prison (haha which is already the case). they already have their criminal jobs, they don't need 2nd chances from good people, who should give those jobs to other good people. their bad people that end up in prison, why should we care if they can't get a job, if their 12 offspring are hungry or if they have no education.

people make their own choices in life, that effect the kids as well i know, but bad people will make bad choices for themselves and set bad examples to their offspring. good people make good choices in life and so their offspring will excel at life. this is what the world has ALWAYS been like.

bad people will never change is my point, they will just get worse with every generation.

How simply fascinating. Please, tell me more of your well reasoned views.

frag420

MellowToast wrote: »

human rights keep getting in the way of proper punishment for scum

people who have no idea how terrible humans can be tend to not want capital punishment

prisons are just a different word for hotel imo

the vast majority commit criminal acts again when they are set free

it is very hard to know what should be done. the only belife I have is if you take some1s life then your human rights should be ripped from you. that includes clean water (they should be given disease ridden water) and the likes. this is never gona happen in my life time and i am only 23...so lets just not employ anyone who has been in prison (haha which is already the case). they already have their criminal jobs, they don't need 2nd chances from good people, who should give those jobs to other good people. their bad people that end up in prison, why should we care if they can't get a job, if their 12 offspring are hungry or if they have no education.

people make their own choices in life, that effect the kids as well i know, but bad people will make bad choices for themselves and set bad examples to their offspring. good people make good choices in life and so their offspring will excel at life. this is what the world has ALWAYS been like.

bad people will never change is my point, they will just get worse with every generation.

Lets kill bad people. Then we can all go up to the old mill and drink some cider......................

Carlos_Ray

In my opinion, some form of capital punishment will be reintroduced over the next two hundred years. As the worlds population continues to explode, the gap between the rich and poor increases, and violent crime rate continues to rise. Its inevitable.

Personally I agree with the death penalty for heinous crimes. I know its not a deterrent and doesn't effect violent crime rates, however, if carried out correctly and efficiently it can save the state millions of euro.

It costs the guts of 100,000 to hold one person in prison in Ireland for a year. (I think its around 77,000 per inmate). It would cost significantly less to terminate the life of a sadistic killer or Paedophile within the first year of his/her conviction than to keep them locked up with digital TV for the rest of his life. Some of the money saved by the state could be pumped back into the failing health or education system.

I think the moral question is pretty simple. Is it better to extinguish the life of an evil person in order to direct much needed resources towards the good people in society. I think the answer is yes, and in the future the practical nature of it will make it hard to ignore.

I'd even go a step further and enforce organ donations. That way the killer would be repaying some of the debt he owes to society. Its practical, it makes sense.

Ush1

Watch the documentary Into The Abyss.

Death penalty really solves nothing and is not a deterrent.

bananarama22

What about the "charming gentleman" who danced on the head of that poor Polish man here to make a living "just for the buzz".

hooradiation

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

I think the moral question is pretty simple. Is it better to extinguish the life of an evil person in order to direct much needed resources towards the good people in society. I think the answer is yes, and in the future the practical nature of it will make it hard to ignore.

Except that's not the question you should be asking yourself.

The question is - If we introduced the death penalty, we must first accept that innocent people will incorrectly sentenced to death. Is this permissible?

The answer is pretty simple. No it is not.

frag420

I disagree about the organs. I saw a movie once where they donated the organs of a killer and the recipient of the organs took on the persona of the dead killer and started killing. It was one vicious circle of murder!!;)

Besides imagine waking up after a transplant and being told you have Joseph Fritzls kidney or Larry Murphies lung..........................fook that!!

Ush1

hooradiation wrote: »

Except that's not the question you should be asking yourself.

The question is - If we introduced the death penalty, we must first accept that innocent people will incorrectly sentenced to death. Is this permissible?

The answer is pretty simple. No it is not.

Not to mention it's inaccurate.

Capital murder trials and the keeping of prisoners on death row is a massive financial drain, much more so than other types of prisoners so it's not actually saving money by killing them at all.

hooradiation

Ush1 wrote: »

Not to mention it's inaccurate.

Capital murder trials and the keeping of prisoners on death row is a massive financial drain, much more so than other types of prisoners so it's not actually saving money by killing them at all.

Well, people who back the return of the death penalty seem to have very loose grasps on things like due process and human rights, I was looking to show why it's a terrible idea without offering any chance to couch their reply in their misunderstandings.

Though you are perfectly correct in your reasoning.

Carlos_Ray

hooradiation wrote: »

except that's not the question you should be asking yourself.

The question is - If we introduced the death penalty, we must first accept that innocent people will incorrectly sentenced to death. Is this permissible?

The answer is pretty simple. No it is not.

Well the same can be said for any form of human advancement. Thousands upon thousands of innocent people are killed every year because of motor vehicles, electricity, and plenty of other human endeavours.

Furthermore plenty of innocent people have served life sentences in prison but I don't hear anybody calling for prisons to be abolished.

The number of innocent people executed in the United States is minuscule now. The advances in DNA technology and the body of evidence needed to convict someone has greatly improved the process.

The termination of faulty dangerous humans, and the redirection of financial and biological resources can only be of benefit to society in the long run. How many sick and dying people in Ireland are waiting in hospital beds for heart transplants etc? How many remorseless killers are sitting in their cells enjoying their pathetic 7 year sentence. The solution is clear to me.