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Abortion

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13567…50

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    #62
    Sheeps
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    black francis wrote: »
    Sheeps wrote: »
    Its never going to be a clear cut case of abortion or suicide because there are so many other variables missing from the little hypothetical example you've just made up there. In the event there is a legitimate threat to the mothers life certain options for abortions should become available, but it should be a last resort and reviewed on a case by case basis by some who's responsible for defending the baby's rights (judge or a doctor perhaps) as well as the mother.

    Yeah, we could hook them up to lie detectors I guess :rolleyes:
    ...


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    #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sheeps wrote: »
    In the event there is a legitimate threat to the mothers life certain options for abortions should become available, but it should be a last resort and reviewed on a case by case basis by some who's responsible for defending the baby's rights (judge or a doctor perhaps) as well as the mother.

    People will just keep going to the UK if that system is put in place.


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    #64
    LilyCricket
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 232 ✭✭LilyCricket


    true-or-false wrote: »
    People will just keep going to the UK if that system is put in place.

    Yes. I'd imagine a judge and doctor are going to look to the mother & their feelings first


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    #65
    LETHAL LADY
    Registered Users Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭LETHAL LADY


    Sheeps wrote: »
    Again, no two cases are the same. My point is that yes you are right I'm sure there are circumstances where abortion should be an option available to a mother where it is currently not, however I don't believe this decision should be left to the mother alone and my original point was that I'm more against the idea of "pro choice" than I am "pro life" or what ever the other side is labeled these days.

    A family member was unfortunate enough to have a baby who would not and did not survive beyond birth at around 6 months, the babys condition was not confirmed to her until after 20 weeks even though there were early warning signs of something wrong. She was left deeply depressed and traumatised by having to continue through a pregnancy and labour without a happy outcome. If she had been aware of such an outcome earlier in the pregnancy are you insinuating that only a judge would be the right person to make the correct decision for her.


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    #66
    LilyCricket
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 232 ✭✭LilyCricket


    LETHAL LADY wrote: »
    A family member was unfortunate enough to have a baby who would not and did not survive beyond birth at around 6 months, the babys condition was not confirmed to her until after 20 weeks even though there were early warning signs of something wrong. She was left deeply depressed and traumatised by having to continue through a pregnancy and labour without a happy outcome. If she had been aware of such an outcome earlier in the pregnancy are you insinuating that only a judge would be the right person to make the correct decision for her.


    Awful. My heart goes out to her


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    #67
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    As long as the tax payer doesn't pick up the tab.


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    #68
    Atlantis50
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭Atlantis50


    MickySticks wrote: »
    What ever you think of abortion, people should have the freedom of choice IMO.

    Does freedom of choice supersede the right to life of the unborn?


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    #69
    PrincessLola
    Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭PrincessLola


    Sheeps wrote: »
    To hell with the woman's choice. It's not your body anymore. As soon as you become pregnant your body belongs to the baby as much as it belongs to you.

    I don't think this "pro choice" argument stands up in the same way I don't think it stands up if used to defend a mother who drinks and smoke when pregnant.

    To hell with your choice. I don't consider my opinion to be based on religious grounds in any way shape or form and I'm more "anti-choice" than I am "pro life".



    Personally I don't consider it a 'baby' at conception, potential baby sure, but not a baby. An acorn is not a tree, an egg is not a chicken, etc etc.

    Sorry, I just don't feel very sentimental about them that early:confused:

    Now let the raaage begin..


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    #70
    LilyCricket
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 232 ✭✭LilyCricket


    [QUOTE=Bullseye1;7

    8248988]As long as the tax payer doesn't pick up the tab.[/QUOTE]

    I hope you're never unemployed, sick, or reach old age, mate


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    #71
    Born to Die
    Closed Accounts Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Born to Die


    LilyCricket wrote: »
    I hope you're never unemployed, sick, or reach old age, mate


    Why do you want him/her to die young?


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    #72
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Does Ireland allow for the destruction of embryos in this country does anyone know? Is that covered under abortion legislation?


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    #73
    LilyCricket
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 232 ✭✭LilyCricket


    Born to Die wrote: »
    Why do you want him/her to die young?

    no?


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    #74
    Born to Die
    Closed Accounts Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Born to Die


    LilyCricket wrote: »
    no?

    You posted that you hope he/she never reached old age!!


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    #75
    Chain_reaction
    Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Chain_reaction


    I'm all for abortion on demand.

    No pro-life rant is going to make me change my mind.


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    #76
    DarkJager
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,960 ✭✭✭DarkJager


    Atlantis50 wrote: »
    Does freedom of choice supersede the right to life of the unborn?

    Yes, an actual adult life is more valuable than a "potential" life. Given that at most abortions the fetus is not even human form, you are trying to attribute human qualities to something that is not.


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    #77
    LETHAL LADY
    Registered Users Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭LETHAL LADY


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Does Ireland allow for the destruction of embryos in this country does anyone know? Is that covered under abortion legislation?

    I dont know tbh we probably send them to the UK as this is more acceptable somehow.


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    #78
    Sheeps
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    LETHAL LADY wrote: »
    Sheeps wrote: »
    Again, no two cases are the same. My point is that yes you are right I'm sure there are circumstances where abortion should be an option available to a mother where it is currently not, however I don't believe this decision should be left to the mother alone and my original point was that I'm more against the idea of "pro choice" than I am "pro life" or what ever the other side is labeled these days.

    A family member was unfortunate enough to have a baby who would not and did not survive beyond birth at around 6 months, the babys condition was not confirmed to her until after 20 weeks even though there were early warning signs of something wrong. She was left deeply depressed and traumatised by having to continue through a pregnancy and labour without a happy outcome. If she had been aware of such an outcome earlier in the pregnancy are you insinuating that only a judge would be the right person to make the correct decision for her.
    I'm saying that there should be a system in place where abortions are there for those who actuallg legitimately need them, and they are not available to those who don't. I suggested that the legitimacy of the effect on the mother should be decided with the Mother by a judge and/or doctor, or someone who can make an informed decission keeping in mind the child's rights who can allow the mother to go through with it if it is required.


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    #79
    Blue_Seas
    Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭Blue_Seas


    Sheeps wrote: »
    I'm sure there are circumstances where abortion should be an option available to a mother where it is currently not, however I don't believe this decision should be left to the mother alone

    And I don't believe that someone who will not experience pregnancy should decide whether I can get an abortion or not.

    How about we get a room of women to decide on whether you should have a vasectomy or not?

    Bottom line is that a pregnant person should get to choose. If you're against abortion, don't get one, just like if you're against gay marriage you shouldn't get one. Don't deny the privilege to others.

    (Oh and your statement that women lose all rights as a person and simply become a "baby carrier" once pregnant was absolutely disgusting)


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    #80
    Mr.Biscuits
    Closed Accounts Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Mr.Biscuits


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZv2s7fU0v4


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    #81
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    LilyCricket wrote: »
    I hope you're never unemployed, sick, or reach old age, mate

    So do I. I'm all for choice (even though I don't believe it's right, I do believe people should have a choice). But why should the tax payer pick up the bill. If women are prepared to fly the UK and pay UK doctors for the service they should be willing to pay Irish Doctors too. Maybe their medical insurance will cover it.


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    #82
    LilyCricket
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 232 ✭✭LilyCricket


    Born to Die wrote: »
    You posted that you hope he/she never reached old age!![/QUOTE

    Pedantic Pat, and that is that


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    #83
    Atlantis50
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭Atlantis50


    DarkJager wrote: »
    Yes, an actual adult life is more valuable than a "potential" life. Given that at most abortions the fetus is not even human form, you are trying to attribute human qualities to something that is not.

    In Irish law, life is recognised as having commenced when the embryo attaches to the uterus.

    A heartbeat can be detected at 6 to 8 weeks.

    What do you mean by 'potential life'?


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    #84
    Born to Die
    Closed Accounts Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Born to Die


    LilyCricket wrote: »
    Born to Die wrote: »
    You posted that you hope he/she never reached old age!![/QUOTE

    Pedantic Pat, and that is that

    I thought it was fairly relevant considering the thread you started.


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    #85
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    Yes, it should be legally available, but I believe the time limit should be lowered from 24 weeks to 16 weeks.


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    #86
    LilyCricket
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 232 ✭✭LilyCricket


    Born to Die wrote: »
    Why do you want him/her to die young?

    what


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    #87
    Atlantis50
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭Atlantis50


    dark crystal wrote: »
    Yes, it should be legally available, but I believe the time limit should be lowered from 24 weeks to 16 weeks.

    Why 16 weeks?


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    #88
    Blue_Seas
    Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭Blue_Seas


    As an aside: people can use the safet contraceptive methods possible and still end up with an unwanted pregnancy. Abortion isn't dragging a crying baby out and killing it - in most cases it's removing a cluster of cells. Cells like a tumour. It's not a human life to most people, and if that constitutes human life to you then you're going against the scientific community and simply don't go for a termination.

    Also if abortion is murder, is a twin absorbing the second fetus in utero murder? Is using contraception murder, too? Both abortion and contraception are stopping potential life so I guess anyone who uses contraception is going to hell!

    And under no other circumstances does one person have to give up their bodily resources, daily functions and give their nutrients to another life attached to it. A woman is not obliged to keep a baby when it isn't even a life yet. Personally, when a baby becomes an actual baby (not a clump of cells without consciousness) I wouldn't get one, but if someone else thinks they can go through with that then I won't stop them. That's not my place.


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    #89
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    Atlantis50 wrote: »
    Why 16 weeks?

    Why would you need more time?


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    #90
    PrincessLola
    Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭PrincessLola


    Atlantis50 wrote: »
    In Irish law, life is recognised as having commenced when the embryo attaches to the uterus.

    A heartbeat can be detected at 6 to 8 weeks.

    What do you mean by 'potential life'?


    Pro-choicers always use the heartbeat claim to try and guilt women. But meh, lots of things have heartbeats.

    Its a potential life. I don't give a f*ck what a bunch of men writing the Irish law say otherwise.


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    #91
    Born to Die
    Closed Accounts Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Born to Die


    LilyCricket wrote: »
    I hope you're never unemployed, sick, or reach old age, mate
    LilyCricket wrote: »
    What?

    Who did you deduct that I want the poster to die young after reading that?

    I only read what you posted.


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