Do private schools have a place in society?

iguana

steddyeddy wrote: »

If I earn more money than you at some point in my life should my extra money entitle my kids (who didnt nothing to earn special treatment) to better healthcare than yours?

If you pay for it and take yourself out of the public healthcare system then what's the problem. I've paid for private medical treatment when it's suited me. It's pulled me off public waiting lists so actually speeds things up for those who have no choice but to stay on the list. Try put it this way. If the public healthcare system was practising incorrect procedures would you send your children to those hospitals?

Huge sections of the national curriculum are simplified to the point of being inaccurate and knowing that, there is no way on earth I plan on sending my children to have an 'education' that they will later have to unlearn. Additionally 95% of schools are run by the church and the others still have to provide 'ethical and moral' education. A massive waste of their school time and not something anyone has a business teaching my children but me and my husband.

Superbus

They do.

Unfortunately, when someone who attended one is lumped with crass generalisations and assumptions about their supposed wealth it's not worth it at all. Many parents who send their children to private schools do so at great sacrifice, as they see getting as good an education as possible as something worth putting a price on. Only a small minority, from my experience, come from what one would deem particularly wealthy backgrounds.

Further to that, there's the whole business of how they actually cost the state less per student than a public school, which should always be factored in to this debate. Something like €8,000 compared to €4,000 IIRC.


Anyway, I'll leave ye all to rant about croneyism and inequality, this is probably falling on deaf ears.

Logical Fallacy

steddyeddy wrote: »

Ive done that without privelige and as a result developed life skills that wouldnt have been afforded to me if I got everything handed to me on a plate.

Whether everything is handed to your kids on a plate has little to do with where they go to school, their class or the cash their parents have.

I know people who had very rich parents who always worked for their money and no it's value. I know people who still live at home, don't pay rent and mammy makes there dinner and they are not a rich family.

admiralofthefleet

not when they recieve public money

Owen_S

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

not when they recieve public money

Superbus wrote: »

They do.

Unfortunately, when someone who attended one is lumped with crass generalisations and assumptions about their supposed wealth it's not worth it at all. Many parents who send their children to private schools do so at great sacrifice, as they see getting as good an education as possible as something worth putting a price on. Only a small minority, from my experience, come from what one would deem particularly wealthy backgrounds.

Further to that, there's the whole business of how they actually cost the state less per student than a public school, which should always be factored in to this debate. Something like €8,000 compared to €4,000 IIRC.


Anyway, I'll leave ye all to rant about croneyism and inequality, this is probably falling on deaf ears.

A couple of posts above.

TeddyTedson

Boarding schools provide a great education and If you have the money I'd recommend sending your kids to one.

tatumkelly

Wow plenty of sweeping generalisations in this thread :rolleyes:

Not everyone goes to private school because their parents think they are 'too good' or 'elite' for the public schools. :rolleyes:

Everyone has the right to be educated in a school unpinned by the ethos of their particular religion. It just so happens in the the case of the Church of Ireland, most of those schools are private.

I didn't go to boarding school because mummy and daddy had so much money they didn't know what to do with it, I went because they wanted me to be educated with the beliefs and values of the COI, and to have the opportunity to meet people with similar beliefs.

My parents struggled, and went without, in order for this to happen. By removing state funding for private schools in minority groups, the government will force numerous schools to close, hence withdrawing the fundamental right to be educated within the particular ethos of your religion.

iguana

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

not when they recieve public money

The school I plan on using receives no public money as it does not teach the national curriculum and is non-denominational. It's a very basic school, consisting of 3 hired rooms, 4-6 staff and about 30-40 pupils in the whole school. The parents of the students are the board of management and the fees are designed to be just enough to pay the staff, room hire, insurance, utilities, equipment, contingency fund etc.

RichieC

Of course they do.

steddyeddy

iguana wrote: »

If you pay for it and take yourself out of the public healthcare system then what's the problem. I've paid for private medical treatment when it's suited me. It's pulled me off public waiting lists so actually speeds things up for those who have no choice but to stay on the list. Try put it this way. If the public healthcare system was practising incorrect procedures would you send your children to those hospitals?

Huge sections of the national curriculum are simplified to the point of being inaccurate and knowing that, there is no way on earth I plan on sending my children to have an 'education' that they will later have to unlearn. Additionally 95% of schools are run by the church and the others still have to provide 'ethical and moral' education. A massive waste of their school time and not something anyone has a business teaching my children but me and my husband.

Im not talking about me and you. Im talking about children who through no fault of their own are born into familes of varying degrees of wealth. If I was more affluent than you why should your children be punished because of it? Should money of the parents determine the qaulity of healthcare of one child over another.

Rocket19

Hmm, there's some very ignorant attitudes here.
For the record, not everyone who goes to a private school is a spoiled brat smothered in Daddy's money. Just because a family can afford/choose to send their kid to a private school, doesn't make them a "d*ckhead" or automatically make the kid a brat.

Sure, you get some ****, mostly ones of the self-entitled kind, but I bet in some inner-city schools (extreme example), you're gonna get some scumbags. Point being, you're going to get problematic kinds of people from any walk of life. Be that a junkie knacker or a posh tw*t.

When I was in first year of college, I actually had to ditch one of my 'friends' because he just would NOT let go of the fact I went to a private school. Always slagging me about it, cajoling me because my family keeps horses, etc. He was always like "oh I bet you look down on me because my Dad is a taxi driver". "Um...no I don't, you're an *sshole".

Do you guys have the same attitude towards private healthcare?

Grayson

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steddyeddy wrote: »

True there are a lot of private shcools like that but there are many that are elitest and look at a lot more than entrance exams and fees.

I agree. There's a couple of schools I know of that are full of rich entitled dickheads.
But like you said, not all private schools are like that. A lot of boarding schools take day pupils too. And the fees for them are quite small, so local kids from normal backgrounds can go to them.

There are people here tarring every private school with the same brush. There's a lot of variation out there.

steddyeddy

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Whether everything is handed to your kids on a plate has little to do with where they go to school, their class or the cash their parents have.

I know people who had very rich parents who always worked for their money and no it's value. I know people who still live at home, don't pay rent and mammy makes there dinner and they are not a rich family.

Sorry to disagree but I think it does.

admiralofthefleet

iguana wrote: »

The school I plan on using receives no public money as it does not teach the national curriculum and is non-denominational. It's a very basic school, consisting of 3 hired rooms, 4-6 staff and about 30-40 pupils in the whole school. The parents of the students are the board of management and the fees are designed to be just enough to pay the staff, room hire, insurance, utilities, equipment, contingency fund etc.

like myself, im planning to send my son to an educate together. but the likes of blackrock college recieving money when ordinary people cant send their children there annoys me. gonzaga dont even allow students from the northside of dublin to enrol

Grayson

steddyeddy wrote: »

Im not talking about me and you. Im talking about children who through no fault of their own are born into familes of varying degrees of wealth. If I was more affluent than you why should your children be punished because of it? Should money of the parents determine the qaulity of healthcare of one child over another.

During the time I was in private school one or other of my parents were unemployed. At one point my mother worked two jobs. At another point by father had to abroad for work. I went to a private school and got probably the best education that was available in our county.

ted1

steddyeddy wrote: »

I take it if I earn more money than you I should also recieve better medication and or treatment in hospital?

Yes, if your willing to pay for it.

Dudess

If people want to shell out a fortune for a perceived superior education, let them I guess.

oppenheimer1

Yes there is a place in society for private schools. If parents want to further subsidise their childrens education then why would I stop them? It they were in the state sector they would cost the taxpayer even more.

Its not that we should be bemoaning these rich children and their better education. We should be complaining that the state sector isn't as good and trying to improve it until there is no difference.

ted1

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

like myself, im planning to send my son to an educate together. but the likes of blackrock college recieving money when ordinary people cant send their children there annoys me. gonzaga dont even allow students from the northside of dublin to enrol

Your point is stupid. They recieve the same capital allowance per student. If you can't afford to pay the extra money to cover additional teachers and facilities then of course you shouldn't be allowed in.

You need to remove the chip from your shoulder.

iguana

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

but the likes of blackrock college recieving money when ordinary people cant send their children there annoys me. gonzaga dont even allow students from the northside of dublin to enrol

Yeah I agree that is a problem. Imo, private schools should ideally be independent. It's quite like how hospital consultants used to be able to double job in a way that allowed them to be private some days a week while still taking a full-time public salary. And they would encourage patients to leap frog the public system by having an initial appointment as a private patient and then get seen faster publicly after that. I've no problem with people choosing private services instead of public, be that an education or medical treatment. But choose one of or the other instead of paying for extra while creaming off the system.

steddyeddy

Rocket19 wrote: »

Hmm, there's some very ignorant attitudes here.
For the record, not everyone who goes to a private school is a spoiled brat smothered in Daddy's money. Just because a family can afford/choose to send their kid to a private school, doesn't make them a "d*ckhead" or automatically make the kid a brat.

Sure, you get some ****, mostly ones of the self-entitled kind, but I bet in some inner-city schools (extreme example), you're gonna get some scumbags. Point being, you're going to get problematic kinds of people from any walk of life. Be that a junkie knacker or a posh tw*t.

When I was in first year of college, I actually had to ditch one of my 'friends' because he just would NOT let go of the fact I went to a private school. Always slagging me about it, cajoling me because my family keeps horses, etc. He was always like "oh I bet you look down on me because my Dad is a taxi driver". "Um...no I don't, you're an *sshole".

Do you guys have the same attitude towards private healthcare?

First of all I dont think all people who go to private shcool are rich or d1cks. I know a few of the st.gerards crowd as friends and their mostly grand.

Regarding healthcare I lived a good chunk of my life where having no insurance or not enough money for healthcare can be the leading cause of bankruptcy.

Regarding your friend some people will have that attitude to those who are lucky enough to be funded by their parents.

Eathrin

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Bitter much?

Have you ever actually visited a private school? Take the chip of your shoulder, t'wil only slow you down in life...

Not really actually.
Yes I have been to private schools before and I'd have been perfectly happy to choose my do my 6 years in my current public school if I was given the choice.
I don't begrudge students of private schools, but I'm not crazy when I say that there is a certain amount of a superiority complex about the alumni of private schools towards my like.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

...... It gives an unfair advantage to people who usually already are lucky enough to not be born into poverty.............

I know plenty of thick cnuts who went to private school, most grind schools are full of the feckers at Easter and Christmas too. I don't see how a private school is advantageous, the majority of public schools are fine.

wicklowwonder

steddyeddy wrote: »

iguana wrote: »

If you pay for it and take yourself out of the public healthcare system then what's the problem. I've paid for private medical treatment when it's suited me. It's pulled me off public waiting lists so actually speeds things up for those who have no choice but to stay on the list. Try put it this way. If the public healthcare system was practising incorrect procedures would you send your children to those hospitals?

Huge sections of the national curriculum are simplified to the point of being inaccurate and knowing that, there is no way on earth I plan on sending my children to have an 'education' that they will later have to unlearn. Additionally 95% of schools are run by the church and the others still have to provide 'ethical and moral' education. A massive waste of their school time and not something anyone has a business teaching my children but me and my husband.

Im not talking about me and you. Im talking about children who through no fault of their own are born into familes of varying degrees of wealth. If I was more affluent than you why should your children be punished because of it? Should money of the parents determine the qaulity of healthcare of one child over another.

Quiet frankly yes my kids should get better education and healthcare if I work hard to pay for it. My kids will go private and they will also receive the best health care money can buy as this gives them more a chance in life to get a decent job and the cycle begins again.

Same can be said for the kid who is brought into a family who are wasters their kids have a higher chance of also turning into wasters. I will do all in my power to ensure my kids are not dragged down the drain with them. It's society the same schools produce the best students year in year out and the majority of these schools are fed paying.

Rocket19

Obviously having money comes with benefits. It buys you a better standard of just about everything, and this includes the 'basics' of education, health, etc.

Of course this isn't nice, and in an ideal world, everyone would get the best of the basics, but honestly, can this ever happen?
I realise some kids are stuffed into sh*tty schools because that's all that's available, setting them up for a sh*tty start in life. They mix with the wrong people, good kids get dragged down. But I mean, what's the alternative? It's not fair, but it is the reality.

People always want the best (especially for their kids I guess) they can afford and in many cases, the school you pay into are "the best".
I don't see the logic in removing private schools. Where does it end? Should people not be allowed buy fancy houses or expensive cars because other people may not be able to afford them?

steddyeddy

Grayson wrote: »

I agree. There's a couple of schools I know of that are full of rich entitled dickheads.
But like you said, not all private schools are like that. A lot of boarding schools take day pupils too. And the fees for them are quite small, so local kids from normal backgrounds can go to them.

There are people here tarring every private school with the same brush. There's a lot of variation out there.

I agree private schools does not equal rich parents.

Superbus

Here, how plain do the words have to be, I go to a private school and I'm not a fcuking rich child. I'm an only child to a widowed parent, who has had to really sacrifice in order to send me to the school I go to.

If I had a sibling there's no chance I'd be privately educated, as we just wouldn't have the money for feesx2.

Further to that, neither of my parents nor any other relations of mine went to private schools, so it's not like I'm part of some elite inner circle.

I really shouldn't let these threads piss me off, but they do.

Dyr

GarIT wrote: »

Because they can pay for it.

I'm pretty sure that kids in public and private schools would have roughly the same income...i.e f**k all, so we can safely say that they can't pay for it.

Glenbhoy

IM0 wrote: »

Id rather communism than 'democracy' tbh. I think

I think one is an economic ideology and the other a political ideology, therefore they aren't or shouldn't be mutually exclusive. One should be able to have a democratic form of communism and indeed, most of the former communist countries did have forms of democracy (it's just that your voting power was enhanced if you were a party member).

steddyeddy

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Quiet frankly yes my kids should get better education and healthcare if I work hard to pay for it. My kids will go private and they will also receive the best health care money can buy as this gives them more a chance in life to get a decent job and the cycle begins again.

Same can be said for the kid who is brought into a family who are wasters their kids have a higher chance of also turning into wasters. I will do all in my power to ensure my kids are not dragged down the drain with them. It's society the same schools produce the best students year in year out and the majority of these schools are fed paying.

Heres my problem with private schools. I think that idea is absolute rubbish. They dont produce the best students. They instill students with a belief that they can get to college yes but in no way do they produce the best students.