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Top 90's heavyweight boxers vs top 70's heavyweight boxers?

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    #392
    Maravilla33
    Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭Maravilla33


    cowzerp wrote: »
    I used Glen Johnson as a good opponent for Dawson not as the man, Glen Johnson is a good boxer-again view the clips, he can box to a very good technical level.

    You have nothing to back anything up, i have posted videos of our comparisons many times and you have just disagreed, that is not backing anything up.



    If you pick the top man it is only fair to pick the top man from now or someone established at the weight-Nobody is claiming Paulie is a great at the weight, we simply just said he has skill's, and as seen as we are talking about technical skill's i would rate his higher than Griffiths anyway, his problem is lack of power not skill.



    No it is not simple, pit the best of both era's and see who is better, then pit the 2nd best and see who is better etc etc.. not picking Paulie who is new to the division and beat a nobody against Emile Griffith.



    Of course he is.

    I don't need to post clips to back up my argument I can explain using my own words why I think someone would win. Can't post clips in work anyway :(

    So whats wrong with Monzon? I'm quite interested in your answer as I've heard him being described as a middleweight version of Vitali many times.


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    #393
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,020 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    cowzerp wrote: »
    No it is not simple, pit the best of both era's and see who is better, then pit the 2nd best and see who is better etc etc.. not picking Paulie who is new to the division and beat a nobody against Emile Griffith.
    .

    Yes, hence why I added in Floyd in my post; Manny too. Or, Berto or anyone you want.

    And, how about LW and MW? Do you think the champs there, Sturm and Martinez at MW, and say Rios at LW, are superior to Monzon and Buchannan?

    I think Buchanan eats Rios up. I think Monzon schools Sturm easily, and figures out and also beats Martinez.


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    #394
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Maravilla33 wrote: »
    I don't need to post clips to back up my argument I can explain using my own words why I think someone would win. Can't post clips in work anyway :(

    So whats wrong with Monzon? I'm quite interested in your answer as I've heard him being described as a middleweight version of Vitali many times.

    You just state your opinion and think that yours is more valuable than mine, then pretend you think I have not seen the Boxers which is false.

    Monzon was a very good Boxer-I'm not saying otherwise.

    For the record my issue is with pre 70's Boxers anyway and nostalgia which happens to overtake reality in talking about many old fighters, I have said the difference between 70's and now is not massive, I also said there was a big jump in skill from 1950-1970

    It is easy to rate fighters highly after their career's and much harder when some have not got their legacys made yet.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #395
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,020 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Going around in cirlces. I think we all voted that there has been an improvement between the 1950s and today.

    But, I think the 60s and 70s is where it peaked, and has not obvioulsy progressed, at least not from what I have seen. I simply responded to gene's request to name men from the 60s and 70s. I did. And I believe many of them names were very very good fighters who would be competitive and champs today.

    Now, I wonder willl gene respond to my request.


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    #396
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    walshb wrote: »
    Yes, hence why I added in Floyd in my post; Manny too. Or, Berto or anyone you want.

    And, how about LW and MW? Do you think the champs there, Sturm and Martinez at MW, and say Rios at LW, are superior to Monzon and Buchannan?

    I think Buchanan eats Rios up. I think Monzon schools Sturm easily, and figures out and also beats Martinez.

    Floyd beats Griffith-there ya go.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #397
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    walshb wrote: »
    Going around in cirlces. I think we all voted that there has been an improvement between the 1950s and today.

    But, I think the 60s and 70s is where it peaked, and has not obvioulsy progressed, at least not from what I have seen. I simply respnede to gene's request to name men from the 60s and 70s. I did. And I believe many of them names were very very good fighters who would be competeive and champs today.


    Certainly not the 60's

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #398
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,020 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    cowzerp wrote: »
    Floyd beats Griffith-there ya go.

    Yes, and do a poll on that on any number of sites and many will agree and many will disagree. That is my point. Floyd at WW never showed me greatness. Emile I believe was a better WW fighter. Could Floyd win? Hell yes. It's a 6-4 here in my view. Both were fantastic fighters. I just think Emile was a better WW than Floyd.


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    #399
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    walshb wrote: »
    Emile I believe was a better WW fighter. Could Floyd win? Hell yes. It's a 6-4 here in my view. Both were fantastic fighters. I just think Emile was a better WW than Floyd.


    Who did Emile fight at Welterweight? serious question

    Most his good opposition was at Middleweight

    The fact that Floyd is naturally lighter and most would still feel Floyd would win here has to tell you something-on paper it should be 1 sided for the bigger man but it isn't-Floyd is just too skillfull for Emile.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #400
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,020 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    cowzerp wrote: »
    Who did Emile fight at Welterweight? serious question

    Most his good opposition was at Middleweight

    The fact that Floyd is naturally lighter and most would still feel Floyd would win here has to tell you something-on paper it should be 1 sided for the bigger man but it isn't-Floyd is just too skillfull for Emile.

    Who did Floyd fight? We can pick apart any man's opposition.

    JMM, blown up feather/lightweight. Hatton? Blown up LWW? Ortiz? No need to mention that. A stale and old and past it Mosley. Judah? Baldomir....

    From what I have seen from both in and around the WW division, as in WW and slightly above, I think Emile wins in a real close fight.


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    #401
    Maravilla33
    Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭Maravilla33


    cowzerp wrote: »
    Who did Emile fight at Welterweight? serious question

    Most his good opposition was at Middleweight

    The fact that Floyd is naturally lighter and most would still feel Floyd would win here has to tell you something-on paper it should be 1 sided for the bigger man but it isn't-Floyd is just too skillfull for Emile.

    Same question can be asked of Floyd. Who has he fought at WW? Most of his best performances were below WW. I take Mayweather to win aswell but wouldn't be easy and would be his hardest fight to date.


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    #402
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    walshb wrote: »
    Who did Floyd fight? We can pick apart any man's opposition.

    JMM, blown up feather/lightweight. Hatton? Blown up LWW? Ortiz? No need to mention that. A stale and old and past it Mosley. Judah? Baldomir....

    From what I have seen from both in and around the WW division, as in WW and slightly above, I think Emile wins in a real close fight.

    Hang on-Floyd is a blown up feather/lightweight lets be fair-i asked a genuine question who did Emile fight at welter? you just named decent lads Floyd fought, not in his league but who is.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #403
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,020 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    cowzerp wrote: »
    Hang on-Floyd is a blown up feather/lightweight lets be fair-i asked a genuine question who did Emile fight at welter? you just named decent lads Floyd fought, not in his league but who is.

    I am a bit confused. I was saying that JMM is a bown up FW/LW fighter, NOT Floyd. Are you stating that Floyd is a blown SFW/LW up fighter?

    Griffith fought Paret and had a three fight series with Luis Rodriguez.

    Like I said, I can attack Floyd's opposition too. I see nothing great at Floyd's ledger at WW. Not in his league, yes, and also not in any league considered great at WW. C'mon, surely you agree here? Griffith beats them all too.

    Now, seeing as BOTH men also ventured above 147 lbs, Griffith to me has a more impressive resume there.


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    #404
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,020 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    For the record I still think at WW Floyd has the style and talent to beat the best WW Mosley.

    And, I have zero issue with anyone saying Floyd beats Griffith, at any weight. I think it's a close scrap.


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    #405
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    walshb wrote: »
    I am a bit confused. I was saying that JMM is a bown up FW/LW fighter, NOT Floyd. Are you stating that Floyd is a blown SFW/LW up fighter?

    What i am stating is that Floyd is Welter by trying to be, he is not naturally a big man which your post makes out-he started at superfeather i think and won and moved each time-just like JMM and Manny-JMM has just been ripped v Manny at Welter so knocking him is just not cool-PBF is just on another planet.

    I agree he beats Mosley but would always be a good fight.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #406
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,020 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    cowzerp wrote: »
    What i am stating is that Floyd is Welter by trying to be, he is not naturally a big man which your post makes out-he started at superfeather i think and won and moved each time-just like JMM and Manny-JMM has just been ripped v Manny at Welter so knocking him is just not cool-PBF is just on another planet.

    I agree he beats Mosley but would always be a good fight.

    Yes, Floyd is not a true WW; never said he was, in fact I have said before that he is to me not a great WW fighter. He is a great 130-140 lb fighter.

    I still firmly believe though that he is naturally a weight or two above JMM. And, seriously, was that a real challenge for him at 147 lbs? No way. JMM is very good, but Floyd is too, and he is at least 7-10 lbs the naturally bigger man.

    Either way it has zero to do with Floyd vs. Griffith. If we want to pit them, lets' pit them. WW is the obvious weight, isn't it? At this I see a close Griffith win. You see Floyd win. No major disagreement there.


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