How British are You?

Latchy

Doc Ruby wrote: »

And then some. Its depressing when the loyalist faction start taking them seriously though, we are going to have some fun untangling that knot when they finally get to join civilisation again.

Indeed ...one doesn't have to be a historian to debate but at least have some facts , figures or analysis which suits a more modern era than relying on the same old same .

Fratton Fred

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Through no virtues of your own.

Err, no.

As much as you would hate to admit it, the battle of Britain played a significant part in the war.

But hey, were all British, so let's not argue.

Fratton Fred

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Through no virtues of your own.

Err, no.

As much as you would hate to admit it, the battle of Britain played a significant part in the war.

But hey, we're all British, so let's not argue.

IrishAm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

But hey, we're all British, so let's not argue.

Why cant you lot get it into your heads that we Irish are not British nor do we ever want to be?

Doc Ruby

Fratton Fred wrote: »

As much as you would hate to admit it, the battle of Britain played a significant part in the war.

I'd say the 60,000 Londoners killed certainly viewed it as significant.

Latchy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

But hey, were all British, so let's not argue.

You're obiously not familiar with Irish passports ( maybe you are ) but then you could also argue that we are all European , which puts a different slant on it altogether ( as opposed to been British )

Fratton Fred

IrishAm wrote: »

Why cant you lot get it into your heads that we Irish are not British nor do we ever want to be?

The thing is, the Doc here is convinced that because the English language is comprised of a lot of French words, the English must be French. Therefore, by the dame logic, the Irish must be English, or French, or something.

Fratton Fred

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I'd say the 60,000 Londoners killed certainly viewed it as significant.

It was kind of a big war Doc, in case you hadn't noticed.

Latchy

Maybe F Fred has a problem with his own sense of Britishness ,more so than anybody with their own sense of Irishness , which maybe 20 or 30 years ago and due to some sterotypes , was simple and easy to define for people of both islands , republic Of Ireland and UK .

Fratton Fred

Latchy wrote: »

Maybe F Fred has a problem with his own sense of Britishness ,more so than anybody with their own sense of Irishness , which maybe 20 or 30 years ago and due to some sterotypes , was simple and easy to define for people of both islands , republic Of Ireland and UK .

huh?

Personally I wouldn't call myself British.

I'm English and to me, defining myself as English.does not mean "Not Irish". I'm not sure the opposite applies though.

IrishAm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

huh?

Personally I wouldn't call myself British.

I'm English and to me, defining myself as English.

Are there not negative correlations with declaring oneself English instead of British these days?

Pompey robbed poor Doncaster today btw. Two dodgy pens and a harsh red card.

Fratton Fred

IrishAm wrote: »

Are there not negative correlations with declaring oneself English instead of British these days?

Pompey robbed poor Doncaster today btw. Two dodgy pens and a harsh red card.

No, why would there be negative connotations with calling yourself English?

Today's result might have decidrdvtje bottom two places, that's all. We are both going down.

Latchy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

huh?

Personally I wouldn't call myself British.

I'm English and to me, defining myself as English.does not mean "Not Irish". I'm not sure the opposite applies though.

Yes but prior to the reverse influux on immigrants to Ireland as opposed to the other way around ,most people in the republic of Ireland had ( and still have to some degree ) their own sense of who they as a race which goes back of course to the 8000 years of history( which I'm not trying to bog you or anybody down with ) but as I've mentioned earlier and as you yourself state now , the English will understand more then anybody their own sense of what is is to be English as opposed to being British

.It's just that the people in the republic as I' m sure you well know don't or have never had that problem of indentity because any small island race , they hold onto who they are and what they know .

DonQuay1

senorwipesalot wrote: »

What do you love about our neighbours?
Do you like them alot more than the kuntz next door.


Ya?

I'm Irish.

I'm a Mick.

I'm a Paddy.

I'm a Ginge.

Basically ...... born bred and dragged up on this great little island ..... and despite all the d/ckheads that have robbed us blind the last couple of years, the crooks and users, the abusers and bad people of all ilks and shades ......

... I AM VERY PROUD TO BE IRISH.

Not British.
At all.

Cavehill Red

LordSutch wrote: »

And lets not confuse British with English, there is a distinct difference. To be British covers soo much more than just being English.

Yup, it includes the Scots (who want to leave), the Welsh (colonised by the English a millennium ago), part of Ireland which isn't actually British at all, and a collection of ocean-bound rocks scattered about the Atlantic (which also aren't British.)

Cavehill Red

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I'm English and to me, defining myself as English.does not mean "Not Irish". I'm not sure the opposite applies though.

Another snipe, Fred? I'd expect better from a Pompey boy. I'd have thought you might comprehend firstly the fact that when some other country claims jurisdiction over you, then part of asserting your nationality is in refusing that claim of jurisdiction. This applies as much to British popular media and television routinely claiming Irish people such as actors or sportsmen as theirs, as much as it does to the political situation involving the six counties.
Personally, I think most Irish people assert our nationality in a wide range of positive ways, despite the constant intrusion of Britain into our affairs and achievements.
Also, it's not our fault that British is synonymous with drunken lout in many parts of the world. Letting the locals know we're not British when we travel is a necessity to ensure a friendly welcome rather than spit in our dinner.

Fratton Fred

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Another snipe, Fred? I'd expect better from a Pompey boy. I'd have thought you might comprehend firstly the fact that when some other country claims jurisdiction over you, then part of asserting your nationality is in refusing that claim of jurisdiction. This applies as much to British popular media and television routinely claiming Irish people such as actors or sportsmen as theirs, as much as it does to the political situation involving the six counties.
Personally, I think most Irish people assert our nationality in a wide range of positive ways, despite the constant intrusion of Britain into our affairs and achievements.
Also, it's not our fault that British is synonymous with drunken lout in many parts of the world. Letting the locals know we're not British when we travel is a necessity to ensure a friendly welcome rather than spit in our dinner.

What.the.****.are.you.on.about

Cavehill Red

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What.the.****.are.you.on.about

Sleepydust still in your eyes, Fred? I'm simply explaining why Irish sometimes includes 'not British', and specifically 'not English', something you wondered about in the post of yours I quoted.

Fratton Fred

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Sleepydust still in your eyes, Fred? I'm simply explaining why Irish sometimes includes 'not British', and specifically 'not English', something you wondered about in the post of yours I quoted.

Why then does a simple explanation involve putting down 60 million people.

KeithAFC

Doc Ruby wrote: »

What empire?

I guess we can file that under "lost more often than not" so.

Read the post. It is pretty obvious.

Cavehill Red

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Why then does a simple explanation involve putting down 60 million people.

Did it?

Wibbs

Doc Ruby wrote: »

There are numerous proposed genetic lines, often named after groups less than a thousand years old, which is biologically impossible, and none of which consider the archaeological evidence.

The point remains that the R1b marker in Ireland is a different one to the R1b marker in the Basque population. Scientists can tell the difference between the two samples. The average Basque is more Spanish than they think and their DNA is younger too. They're a cultural isolate, not that much a genetic one, or less than was thought.

Last glacial maximum - 19,000 years ago. Late glacial maximum, 13,000 years ago. R1b haplogroup 18,500 years ago or less.

Read your own links again. The dating of this gene is steadily getting younger and younger. Neolithic or younger.

The people of England.

Who on average are closer to us genetically than the Basques(and if you head down Cornwall way a lot closer). Naturally as we're geographically and culturally in each others pockets for thousands of years.

fasttalkerchat

Wibbs wrote: »

The point remains that the R1b marker in Ireland is a different one to the R1b marker in the Basque population. Scientists can tell the difference between the two samples. The average Basque is more Spanish than they think and their DNA is younger too. They're a cultural isolate, not that much a genetic one, or less than was thought.

Read your own links again. The dating of this gene is steadily getting younger and younger. Neolithic or younger.

Who on average are closer to us genetically than the Basques(and if you head down Cornwall way a lot closer). Naturally as we're geographically and culturally in each others pockets for thousands of years.

Are you suggesting that genetic similarity between myself (for example) and a person residing in the area now knows as England makes me more British than someone with more distinct genetic makeup?

I would define Britishness as a political viewpoint since the Britain doesn't exist as a county and is a political entity steming from the Acts of Union 1707.

Fratton Fred

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Did it?

You couldn't resist the "the whole world Hates the Brits, but love the Irish" dig, despite the fact that the Irish play a part in our poor reputation.

fasttalkerchat

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You couldn't resist the "the whole world Hates the Brits, but love the Irish" dig, despite the fact that the Irish play a part in our poor reputation.

Yes, because we let on were English when we get ourselves in trouble...
Its all a conspiracy!

Welsh Megaman

Very!

Wibbs

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Are you suggesting that genetic similarity between myself (for example) and a person residing in the area now knows as England makes me more British than someone with more distinct genetic makeup?

Christ no. All I'm doing is suggesting the idea of our insular "Celtic" blood that's very closely related to the Basques is more myth than reality. Just like many English people might think of themselves as Saxon, but chances are very high they're not, or if they are it's a teeny tiny percentage. We're not Celts, nor are we that much of an "ancient" isolated group.

I would define Britishness as a political viewpoint since the Britain doesn't exist as a county and is a political entity steming from the Acts of Union 1707.

I'd agree with that alright.

Cavehill Red

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You couldn't resist the "the whole world Hates the Brits, but love the Irish" dig, despite the fact that the Irish play a part in our poor reputation.

Hmmm. Don't think the Irish can take the blame for the annual trashing of Ayia Napa, Malia, Kusadasi, etc, etc. Nor the three lions rampages at soccer tournaments. Nor the incursions into sovereign Iraq and Afghanistan, complete with appalling civilian casualties. Nor any of the contemporary reasons the British are unwelcome visitors across large swathes of the planet.
But I look forward to your attempts to explain why that's all our fault. Should be amusing.

fasttalkerchat

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Hmmm. Don't think the Irish can take the blame for the annual trashing of Ayia Napa, Malia, Kusadasi, etc, etc. Nor the three lions rampages at soccer tournaments. Nor the incursions into sovereign Iraq and Afghanistan, complete with appalling civilian casualties. Nor any of the contemporary reasons the British are unwelcome visitors across large swathes of the planet.
But I look forward to your attempts to explain why that's all our fault. Should be amusing.

To be fair some Irish people make dicks out of themselves in Santa Ponsa etc. and some Irish people were involved in the murder and destruction in the middle east.

Cavehill Red

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

To be fair some Irish people make dicks out of themselves in Santa Ponsa etc. and some Irish people were involved in the murder and destruction in the middle east.

To be entirely fair, the number of Irish people arrested for anti-social behaviour abroad is extremely small, as the Dept of Foreign Affairs will attest. Furthermore, any Irish involved in the murder and destruction of the Middle East are acting as military operatives of the British (or possibly US) army, not the Irish Army, under orders from the British government (or American) not the Irish government. And there aren't very many of them either.