getting on the road at 17 problems

CiniO

BX 19 wrote: »

More time on the road = more chances to have a crash. I can see the correlation.

Real life seem to show something else.
I've done about 0.5 million kms over last 13 years, and never really caused accident.
My wife only really started driving 4 years ago, even though she had her licence since 2001, she has done maybe 50k kms but already managed to write-off the car.
My father was driving for the last 35 years, but he only did about 200k kms, and crashed twice.

The less you drive, the worse driver you are, and therefore chances to cause accident rise. While also the more you drive, the bigger probablity you will have a chance to cause accident. But this might actually work against each other, causing people who drive a lot to be the same likely to cause an accident as people who drive very little.

CoDy1

CiniO wrote: »

But insurance company doesnt know that really.
Aunty Mary might be doing 50k miles a year by driving to work long distance and then maybe visiting family in Donegal every weekend while she lives in Cork.

If Aunty Mary is doing 50k a year she would have to declare that to her insurance company and would be charged accordingly.

paddylad100

BX 19 wrote: »

More time on the road = more chances to have a crash. I can see the correlation.

sorry to intrude on your ladies aa meeting but would ye ladsmind getting back to the mind and **** auntie mary hahah sound lads

CiniO

CoDy1 wrote: »

If Aunty Mary is doing 50k a year she would have to declare that to her insurance company and would be charged accordingly.

Why?
My insurance company never asked me how many miles I drive.
If I was doing 100k a year, do you reckon I should tell them anyway, even they didn't ask?

Jimbob 83

paddylad100 wrote: »

sorry to intrude on your ladies aa meeting but would ye ladsmind getting back to the mind and **** auntie mary hahah sound lads

It's all relevant

Also Cinio you are making 0 sense, i drive a van for my job and i can tell you every extra minute you are on the road the more likely you are to meet some jackass, you seem to think the only danger on the road is the person driving the commercial vehicle when every gobsheen with a license/or not is out there on there phone or w/e

Jimbob 83

CiniO wrote: »

Why?
My insurance company never asked me how many miles I drive.
If I was doing 100k a year, do you reckon I should tell them anyway, even they didn't ask?

The goods you are delivering also have to be insured, contents insurance won't quite cover a cash in transit van for example and all insurance companies ask what your milage is.

CiniO

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

The goods you are delivering also have to be insured.

So you are saying that those commercial policies cover as well all goods which is being carried in the van?
If I have a transit full of Ipads worth €1 million and I'll crash and destroy all of them, insurance company will pay me for this?

CiniO

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

It's all relevant

Also Cinio you are making 0 sense, i drive a van for my job and i can tell you every extra minute you are on the road the more likely you are to meet some jackass, you seem to think the only danger on the road is the person driving the commercial vehicle when every gobsheen with a license/or not is out there on there phone or w/e

But if you meet some jackass who can't drive and he will cause an accident, then what relation does it have to your insurance company.
You will be claiming from jackass'es insurance, not yours.

Jimbob 83

CiniO wrote: »

But if you meet some jackass who can't drive and he will cause an accident, then what relation does it have to your insurance company.
You will be claiming from jackass'es insurance, not yours.

More time on the road = more jackasses and if it's a country road it's 50/50 regardless

CiniO

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

More time on the road = more jackasses and if it's a country road it's 50/50 regardless

I don't think it's that simple as you say.
Worth investing in dash-cam

Jimbob 83

CiniO wrote: »

So you are saying that those commercial policies cover as well all goods which is being carried in the van?
If I have a transit full of Ipads worth €1 million and I'll crash and destroy all of them, insurance company will pay me for this?

Ofc not you will only get what your individual commercial policy allows you to claim.

CoDy1

CiniO wrote: »

Why?
My insurance company never asked me how many miles I drive.
If I was doing 100k a year, do you reckon I should tell them anyway, even they didn't ask?

Yes, Google 'Material Fact' and 'Utmost Good Faith' in relation to insurance. Basically, you are obligated to disclose any information that an insurer may deem necessary in determining whether they will take on the risk or at what premium.

CiniO

CoDy1 wrote: »

Yes, Google 'Material Fact' and 'Utmost Good Faith' in relation to insurance. Basically, you are obligated to disclose any information that an insurer may deem necessary in determining whether they will take on the risk or at what premium.

How am I supposed to know what they deem necessary?
Actually they never asked me what mileage I do, and I would never think it was any relevant to insurance premium. Therefore I'm not going to ring them that I am planning to do 100k this year, even if I did.

Jimbob 83

Every time someone takes out a policy first you are asked your annual milage on the form, insurance companies take it as a given that you then do that milage each year and thats what you are insured for, if this changes you are obliged to inform the insurer otherwise your policy will not be deemed legitimate or insufficient and you will get either less on your claim or nothing.

Mycroft H

CiniO wrote: »

How am I supposed to know what they deem necessary?
Actually they never asked me what mileage I do, and I would never think it was any relevant to insurance premium. Therefore I'm not going to ring them that I am planning to do 100k this year, even if I did.

CiniO thats absolutely ridiculous. Of course its relevant to your premium and your obliged to inform your insurance company of anything that may affect your premium. Its like modifying your car and not telling your insurance company because they did not ask.

There is a direct correlation of spending more time on the road and the chance of being involved in an accident. How do you not see that? Its common sense

db330

This tread is really getting out of hand, and CiniO you are just trolling now.

when you have a full licence commercial insurance is generally cheaper than private (comparing similarish vehicles) they just don't like learners. But insure a van private and it will always more expensive.

For commercial insurance your goods are covered up to €1000 or whatever quoted, and you arecovered to be carrying goods for business purposes which private doesn't allow.

And to the op have you considered getting a car and removing the seats and making a van yourself??? micra estate or something cheap and small like that

CiniO

db330 wrote: »

This tread is really getting out of hand, and CiniO you are just trolling now.

when you have a full licence commercial insurance is generally cheaper than private (comparing similarish vehicles)

You are saying I'm trolling, but you just said that commercial insurance is cheaper, while nearly everyone earlier was trying to convince me, that commercicl insurance must be more expensive due to higher mileage and more time spend on the road by drivers of such vehicles.
Bit inconsistency here.

CiniO

BX 19 wrote: »

CiniO thats absolutely ridiculous. Of course its relevant to your premium and your obliged to inform your insurance company of anything that may affect your premium. Its like modifying your car and not telling your insurance company because they did not ask.

But they did ask about modifications.
One of the basic assumptions when I was getting my policy was that car was not modified.
They never asked about my mileage though.
I don't really understand now what are you trying to say.
If I'm obliged to inform them about my mileage why didn't the ask?

There is a direct correlation of spending more time on the road and the chance of being involved in an accident. How do you not see that? Its common sense

I genuinely don't see that. I spend plenty of time on the road, but I was never involved in an accident really. I know lot's of people who drive very little and are involved in accidents quite often. So no - it's not common sense, at least not for me.

So please answer me one simple question now.
If you were me, what would you do about informing insurance company about the mileage considering they never asked? Would you write a letter stating that you do 10k a year just to inform them? Or maybe you wouldn't bother with such small mileage, but only inform them if you thought you do lots of miles? Where would be a treshold then for you (above what annual mileage) would you inform them that you thing you are doing big mileage?

db330

CiniO wrote: »

You are saying I'm trolling, but you just said that commercial insurance is cheaper, while nearly everyone earlier was trying to convince me, that commercicl insurance must be more expensive due to higher mileage and more time spend on the road by drivers of such vehicles.
Bit inconsistency here.

You do realize not every commercial on the road is a delivery van right? the majority of commercial vans and 4x4's are own by people in the building trade and related sectors or people with their own business. And even those that are delivery vans don't always do huge mileage.

And also your average commuter does a lot of mileage nowadays.

And go and get a quote for a van for yourself,

Was getting quotes from my broker a few months ago, golf 2.0 tdi, A4 2.0tdi, and saab 93 1.9tid, all 06's quotes ranged from €1100 - 1200.

At the same time got a quote for a Merc Sprinter 313 lwb 05, quote was €800
Generally large vans like this are more expensive but in this case it wasn't. But smaller vans such as transporters, Vitos, traffics and all those are 90% of the time cheaper. Go check it for yourself.

And also you seem to be the most illogical person on the internet. It is pretty obvious that the more miles you do the greater risk you are.

When you mentioned the people only doing small miles and having accidents often there would be another factor in play, such as age, some old fart is going to be much more likely to have a small tip than a middle aged person even though they do less miles. It really and truly is just common sense and I can't understand how you can not see it

paddylad100

db330 wrote: »

This tread is really getting out of hand, and CiniO you are just trolling now.

when you have a full licence commercial insurance is generally cheaper than private (comparing similarish vehicles) they just don't like learners. But insure a van private and it will always more expensive.

For commercial insurance your goods are covered up to €1000 or whatever quoted, and you arecovered to be carrying goods for business purposes which private doesn't allow.

And to the op have you considered getting a car and removing the seats and making a van yourself??? micra estate or something cheap and small like that

finally someone getting to the point....ya i get what you are saying but i want a van with a bit of size micra is pointless 3 bags of turf its full waste of money a combo tho 1.3 cheap tax cheap to run carry bout 25 bags of turf and i dont mind paying a small bit more forinsurance but a car is really justno use to me but the problem is no company will take me privately on a van

Mycroft H

paddylad100 wrote: »

finally someone getting to the point....ya i get what you are saying but i want a van with a bit of size micra is pointless 3 bags of turf its full waste of money a combo tho 1.3 cheap tax cheap to run carry bout 25 bags of turf and i dont mind paying a small bit more forinsurance but a car is really justno use to me but the problem is no company will take me privately on a van

You cannot carry goods for reward under private motor insurance (both Social Domestic and Plesure and Class 1 Use). You could invalidate your policy in the event of an accident (although 3rd party will always be covered) by using a personal policy for commercial purposes.

The below is taken from my policy T&Cs (RSA)

Class of Use:

Social Domestic and Pleasure Use
Use for social domestic and pleasure purposes including commuting to and from work or place of study

Class 1 Use
Use for social domestic and pleasure purposes including commuting to and from work or place of study and used in connection with your/your spouse's business other than

the carriage of goods (not tools) or
the carriage of passengers for hire or reward or
for soliciting of commercial orders

You need commercial insurance if you intend to carry goods for sale in it

Chimaera

paddylad100 wrote: »

finally someone getting to the point....ya i get what you are saying but i want a van with a bit of size micra is pointless 3 bags of turf its full waste of money a combo tho 1.3 cheap tax cheap to run carry bout 25 bags of turf and i dont mind paying a small bit more forinsurance but a car is really justno use to me but the problem is no company will take me privately on a van

Have you costed all of this out yet? How much turf can you save per week? How much will that earn when you sell it? Will that cover the price difference between private insurance on a small car and commercial insurance on the van you've bought (and you will need commercial insurance to carry goods for reward like the previous poster said)?

A quick scan online suggests a bag of turf retailing for 2-4 euro. If you can manage to save and sell 25 bags every week, that's €2500-€5000 in the year.

paddylad100

Chimaera wrote: »

Have you costed all of this out yet? How much turf can you save per week? How much will that earn when you sell it? Will that cover the price difference between private insurance on a small car and commercial insurance on the van you've bought (and you will need commercial insurance to carry goods for reward like the previous poster said)?

A quick scan online suggests a bag of turf retailing for 2-4 euro. If you can manage to save and sell 25 bags every week, that's €2500-€5000 in the year.

ok so here it is i will be selling a plot which works out at 400 bags approx ....i would be selling for 3.50euro a bag which is 1400euros ...400 to bythe the plot and 100 spent on diesel or petrol approx.....900profit...but only if i get insurance on the van...because i cant tow a trialer with the car........i was told by an insurance company that i would get insured with them for 3200 then when i went to pay them they said no they cant insure me....so now i am stuck with the van and btw we are getting off the point again.......can i insure the van commerciallyat 17 for selling turf and which companies would let me along with school because no company will insure it for (personal,social and domestic use)

paddylad100

paddylad100 wrote: »

ok so here it is i will be selling a plot which works out at 400 bags approx ....i would be selling for 3.50euro a bag which is 1400euros ...400 to bythe the plot and 100 spent on diesel or petrol approx.....900profit...but only if i get insurance on the van...because i cant tow a trialer with the car........i was told by an insurance company that i would get insured with them for 3200 then when i went to pay them they said no they cant insure me....so now i am stuck with the van and btw we are getting off the point again.......can i insure the van commerciallyat 17 for selling turf and which companies would let me along with school because no company will insure it for (personal,social and domestic use)

oh ya and the car insurance is 2500

Chimaera

It's not off topic at all actually. You stated your reason for wanting a van is to transport turf so you can sell it and make enough money to cover the cost of the insurance, etc.

A quick search on cbg.ie shows a 2005 Opel Combo is around €3000, plus your insurance for another €3200: total €6200.

You can pick something like a Micra or Fiesta for less than a grand, with insurance around €2500: total €3500.

That's a gap of €2700 up front. Your profit for your plot of turf is €900, which is nowhere close to closing that overall gap. So you can't financially justify the van on that basis. Even down the line when the cost of the vehicle is out of the picture, you're still paying more for insurance on the van. Unless you're going to use the van for other stuff down the line, right now, it's a pointless waste of money IMO.

You've been told the chances of getting commercial insurance as a new 17 year old driver are pretty much none.

You can't legally drive on your own now anyway becuase you're on a learner's permit.

You can't carry goods for sale without commercial insurance.

As negative as all this sounds, it's reality.

paddylad100

Chimaera wrote: »

It's not off topic at all actually. You stated your reason for wanting a van is to transport turf so you can sell it and make enough money to cover the cost of the insurance, etc.

A quick search on cbg.ie shows a 2005 Opel Combo is around €3000, plus your insurance for another €3200: total €6200.

You can pick something like a Micra or Fiesta for less than a grand, with insurance around €2500: total €3500.

That's a gap of €2700 up front. Your profit for your plot of turf is €900, which is nowhere close to closing that overall gap. So you can't financially justify the van on that basis. Even down the line when the cost of the vehicle is out of the picture, you're still paying more for insurance on the van. Unless you're going to use the van for other stuff down the line, right now, it's a pointless waste of money IMO.

You've been told the chances of getting commercial insurance as a new 17 year old driver are pretty much none.

You can't legally drive on your own now anyway becuase you're on a learner's permit.

You can't carry goods for sale without commercial insurance.

As negative as all this sounds, it's reality.

ok number one bought the van with only 79000 miles for 1500 nevermind cbg...donedeal is your place....second i never tried getting commercial insurance as i taught you needed a vat no; which i now realise you dont.....so if i tell the insurance company what i am doing they will more than likely insure me commercially.....so commercial insureance is usually cheaper so if i get insuance for 2500 approx van at 1500 total of 4k after my profit i would only be down 3100 and i am willing to spend 4500 so 1400 for next years insurance as a car 2500 insurance 1500 for any car that has any nct and isint a rust bucket 4000 spent and no return ...van makes sence to me

noodle650

would be very very surprised if you managed to get commercial insurance for a van at 17 on a provisional. im nearly 20 and waiting to resit my test so i can buy a 2l swb transit ive had my eye on for a while now as i ****ed it up the last time. commercial substantially cheaper than private but they wont insure you unless you have full licence.....so go take your test in the instructors car....and forget about the van..how on earth are you going to put diesle, ( Also maintenence) in the thing if you havnt got regular income in the first place and just a possible lump sum from the turf. cheapest ive got at the moment is 3300 comp. for the transit in my own name. and i will have no choice but to pay it as it wont go down otherwise!. but i can write it off against my business and expand my field of work so i can afford to pay for it comfortably. imo..wait....your pigeon holing yourself

fasttalkerchat

You're going to use a lot more than 100 euro diesel for that many bags. Unless they're all for the same shop?

Vertakill

Listen, every time one of these gobsh!tes gives you a quote, ask them for a reference number for it.
Every quote they give you should be valid for a month after they've given it (provided all the information is correct).

They can't just keep giving you conflicting quotes over and over - and you were very naive to go by what they said and buy yourself a van based on how everyone keeps backtracking without seeing a quote in writing or even having a reference number for it.
Sounds like you're being very headstrong and doing all of this yourself without consulting anyone. Ask people with insurance etc before making big decisions (buying a van etc).

And as has been said here, while you think you're doing the right thing by buying a van and ferrying the turf around the place and only breaking 1 law (driving unaccompanied), it's actually a lot worse than you think.

You'd be privately insured and you would be transporting goods that you stand to make money off of... this means you should be commercially insured and you're only a learner...

You're asking for trouble if you get into a crash - and at 17 with very little driving experience, you are at your most likely to crash right now.

As others have said, get a dinky little car and get your license and then worry about selling turf in a van...
There's a good reason why you don't see any 17yo's driving commercial vans selling turf.

And using the argument "I might not have enough money for next years insurance if I don't sell turf" isn't a good one... selling turf isn't the only job in the world for you right now.
Get a job in your local newsagent part time or something... makes a lot more sense.