Yes Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool are done. MOD POST #425 *ALL READ*

Fuhrer

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Dalglish is under scrutiny because of the transfers he has made. Nothing else in my opinion.

Hes not under scrutiny for the awful second half of the season?


or the terrible handling of the Saurez racism affair?

Morricone

Fuhrer wrote: »

Hes not under scrutiny for the awful second half of the season?


or the terrible handling of the Saurez racism affair?

Do you actually contribute anything other than sarcastic little remark with hypothetical questions to which you know the answer.

I've never actually seen you post anything that could ever be called constructive.

You're a nothing poster as far as I'm concerned.

But I'd love to be proved wrong.

stumpypeeps

Fuhrer wrote: »

Hes not under scrutiny for the awful second half of the season?


or the terrible handling of the Saurez racism affair?

The cause of that awful second half to the season is rooted in the transfers of Carroll, Downing and Henderson. The loss of Agger, Lucas, Johnson has pushed further responsibility on those players who have failed to respond.

Suarez affair will not help his cause should FSG consider replacing him.

Nalz

Morricone wrote: »

Do you actually contribute anything other than sarcastic little remark with hypothetical questions to which you know the answer.

I've never actually seen you post anything that could ever be called constructive.

You're a nothing poster as far as I'm concerned.

But I'd love to be proved wrong.

There is nothing wrong with Fuhrers post you quoted.

Nothing.

Cyrus

cambo2008 wrote: »

What I meant there was ye wouldn't have had the champions league runs under the old qualification format.
Those runs glossed over the league form a fair bit.

getting to two finals in 3 years tends to

Morricone

Fuhrer wrote: »

Makes a nice change from our tragedy is more tragic than your tragedy

Trilla wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with Fuhrers post you quoted.

Nothing.

Did I say there was.

But there is a problem with the post above yours. That's absolute bollocks.

His posts on the subject of Liverpool Football Club are a stream of dire negativity, never giving credit of any sort and never conceding so much as an inch, and never getting into any form of constructive/civil discussion except smart little 1 or 2 lines of sarcastic shít.

counterlock

Morricone wrote: »

Do you actually contribute anything other than sarcastic little remark with hypothetical questions to which you know the answer.

I've never actually seen you post anything that could ever be called constructive.

You're a nothing poster as far as I'm concerned.

But I'd love to be proved wrong.

The same could be said about you to be honest. You didn't even attack the right post

PS. Try posting without using bad language - expand your vocabulary my friend

Fuhrer

Morricone wrote: »

Did I say there was.

But there is a problem with the post above yours. That's absolute bollocks.

His posts on the subject of Liverpool Football Club are a stream of dire negativity, never giving credit of any sort and never conceding so much as an inch, and never getting into any form of constructive/civil discussion except smart little 1 or 2 lines of sarcastic shít.

Its fascinating what a rich interest you've taken in me, is there anything more I can do to improve my posting to bring it more in to line with yours? It being of course a bastion of well reasoned arguments and fine balanced debate.

Nalz

Morricone wrote: »

Did I say there was.

Well by asking the below

Morricone wrote: »

Do you actually contribute anything other than sarcastic little remark with hypothetical questions to which you know the answer.

looks to me like you have a problem with anything he contributes, including his post you quoted. He's replying to someone pointing out two other situations that Dalglish can be criticized/scrutinzed on...whether they are obvious or not.

Theres a good few posts that fit the "sarcastic little remark" labelling in here.

Sappy404

Trilla wrote: »

Yet it pops a few times in this thread. Purely because King Kenny won the Carling cup (jon penalties in the final to a championship side - just!) and is the semi finals of the FA Cup. The Northampton result was bad but it can be put down to a fluke, just like Manchester United drawing to Exeter.

So do you think Dalglish should be sacked because Hodgson was with a similar long run of results, or do you think Hodgson shouldn't have been sacked if Kenny hasn't been?

Also interested to hear from the other Hodgson apologists.

Nalz

Sappy404 wrote: »

So do you think Dalglish should be sacked because Hodgson was with a similar long run of results, or do you think Hodgson shouldn't have been sacked if Kenny hasn't been?

Jesus thanks for the question! Breath of fresh air!!

I dont think Kenny should be sacked imo, definitely not now. I doubt he'll be there come August though. I don't think Hodgson should have been sacked either. My honest opinion.

stumpypeeps

Trilla wrote: »

Jesus thanks for the question! Breath of fresh air!!

I dont think Kenny should be sacked imo, definitely not now. I doubt he'll be there come August though. I don't think Hodgson should have been sacked either. My honest opinion.

Out of interest, who would you see as a suitable replacement for Kenny?

What do you think said replacement would do with Carroll, Adam, Henderson and Downing?

SlickRic

Fuhrer wrote: »

Makes a nice change from our tragedy is more tragic than your tragedy

you gave the example of one poster, who was a troll who is now gone.

don't paint us all with that brush as if we all would use tragedies to try and points-score.

only absolute morons who are in the insignificant, extreme minority would do that.

Trilla wrote: »

Or the staying classy line "no matter how much you talk about us or how shíte our results and performances are, we'll always have a place in the game nobody else has or will have"

Which I questioned earlier, genuinely looking for an answer as to what that means but it got removed/deleted somehow. Maybe I didn't word my question classy enough.

it was deleted because it referenced a discussion that i had to delete because the thread was going off course. there was nothing wrong with the question, it just muddled in the bollocks that was being posted.

results and performances point to our current standing in the game. of course they matter. and again, only a moron would claim otherwise.

but our history does mean there is a certain affection and respect with which we are, and possibly always will be held. i'm sorry, but that is just true.

much like Nottingham Forest will always be remembered as a European Cup winner.

much like Preston North End because of their exploits at the turn of the 20th Century have a certain standing in the game.

much like Real Madrid will always be held in esteem no matter what.

much like Manchester United, even in their barren years, were still held in high esteem throughout the 70s and 80s. much like they would be if and when they go through a patch of mediocrity again.

it's not a pompous thing. history means you have a certain standing in the game. it doesn't excuse us from being shíte, just like it wouldn't excuse any of those clubs i've listed from being shíte just because of their history. but the history does exist, and ere'go, the standing is there.

billybudd

This is what happens when you treat a world class manager like **** and then get rid of him because of the opinions of a few.

I am a LFC supporter for 28 years but honestly was sick and still am at the way Benitez was treated by a few fans, players, club officials & media, quite sickening to see Mark L in the press defending Daglish when he should at least have the balls to be as consistent now as he was with his abuse of Benitez.

Daglish getting the job in the first place was a mistake.

Liverpool at this moment in time have turned good players in to terrible players who have no clue what they are doing, they lack organization, lack commitment, lack tactical awareness and most of all and most worrying is they lack heart.

Benitez never gave players heart by giving them a hug or a pat on the shoulder, he gave them heart by telling them that although the player who they where marking or being marked by is better than them if you follow my obstructions then you will be better than him after 90 mins.

In other words he gave them belief, instructions, intelligence, information and the mentality to raise their own game to a level that they would not have thought possible and when they did and when they looked for his compliments at the end of the game all they got was a well you could have done better and next game they probably did do better.

That’s the difference between a manager who brings his players to a boyzone concert and one who stays up all hours analyzing forthcoming teams so his players know 100% what their jobs and tactics are.

And that’s the sort of manager we need as we do not have the revenue to complete with teams who year after year challenge for the top trophies.

We need a manager who turns good and great players into brilliant and extraordinary players like Benitez did with Lucas, Torres, Gerard an even carragher to name but a few.

Sappy404

Trilla wrote: »

Jesus thanks for the question! Breath of fresh air!!

I dont think Kenny should be sacked imo, definitely not now. I doubt he'll be there come August though. I don't think Hodgson should have been sacked either. My honest opinion.

Apologies if asked before, only pop in here occasionally (the circus is entertaining but you wouldn't want to live there).

For the record I think Hodgson's results were dreadful, but he really really seemed to get everything else wrong, from the type of football to feuding with /ignoring certain players, from farcically excusing defeats to having a go at the fans, his reign was a disaster. Even though I don't entirely blame him for his transfers (under the circumstances) I still think he was absolutely diabolical at Liverpool.

And I'm a little bit on the fence about Kenny - I'd hate to see him sacked when a bit more time might see him turn things around - but I think standing down in the summer regardless of any possible FA Cup success would be for the best. I can understand why the success & the football he had us playing in 2011 and the two cup runs have bought him a lot of time with some fans, but long term, I don't think he's the best manager for the job.

stumpypeeps

billybudd wrote: »

This is what happens when you treat a world class manager like **** and then get rid of him because of the opinions of a few.

I am a LFC supporter for 28 years but honestly was sick and still am at the way Benitez was treated by a few fans, players, club officials & media, quite sickening to see Mark L in the press defending Daglish when he should at least have the balls to be as consistent now as he was with his abuse of Benitez.

Daglish getting the job in the first place was a mistake.

Liverpool at this moment in time have turned good players in to terrible players who have no clue what they are doing, they lack organization, lack commitment, lack tactical awareness and most of all and most worrying is they lack heart.

Benitez never gave players heart by giving them a hug or a pat on the shoulder, he gave them heart by telling them that although the player who they where marking or being marked by is better than them if you follow my obstructions then you will be better than him after 90 mins.

In other words he gave them belief, instructions, intelligence, information and the mentality to raise their own game to a level that they would not have thought possible and when they did and when they looked for his compliments at the end of the game all they got was a well you could have done better and next game they probably did do better.

That’s the difference between a manager who brings his players to a boyzone concert and one who stays up all hours analyzing forthcoming teams so his players know 100% what their jobs and tactics are.

And that’s the sort of manager we need as we do not have the revenue to complete with teams who year after year challenge for the top trophies.

We need a manager who turns good and great players into brilliant and extraordinary players like Benitez did with Lucas, Torres, Gerard an even carragher to name but a few.

Good post but for every success Benitez, like most managers, has had his failures. I think on reflection people will note that Benitez inherited a team that included Gerrard, Carragher, Hyypia, Hamann, Finnan, Riise and others. It was a settled stable spine. I think Dalglish is starting from a lower base and suffering because his signings have not worked.

I actually think the football we are trying to play is a lot more pleasing than under Benitez.

Nalz

Sappy404 wrote: »

Apologies if asked before, only pop in here occasionally (the circus in entertaining but you wouldn't want to live there).

For the record I think Hodgson's results were dreadful, but he really really seemed to get everything else wrong, from the type of football to feuding with /ignoring certain players, from farcically excusing defeats to having a go at the fans, his reign was a disaster. Even though I don't entirely blame him for his transfers (under the circumstances) I still think he was absolutely diabolical at Liverpool.

I'm seeing similar trends with Kenny. Dealing with the press, the Suarez incidents, player feuds not so much (I dont think those incidents with Carroll and Gerrard were anything to be fair vs Newcastle), most definitely type of football... I don't think he's had a go at the fans has he?

I agree with you as to what will happen regarding Kenny in the summer.

SlickRic wrote: »

it's not a pompous thing. history means you have a certain standing in the game.

I'm sorry but this is exactly what it is or what it is used as. Most clubs can throw this back at any given time... usually when they are wound up to the last or are in mega ultra defensive mode. "Have a place you'll never have". I see and hear that kinda crap attitude in work off some people, the old brigade, who walk around the office thinking they own the place or are on some sort of higher ground. Walking all over new staff members because they were there in 1997 when we won company of the year, didnt have a coffee machine or air conditioning and to have a mobile phone meant you were a yuppy. We were there when this happened and achieved this and you'll never have that. Same principal. Its wánk.

Will I Amnt

Cyrus wrote: »

cambo2008 wrote: »

What I meant there was ye wouldn't have had the champions league runs under the old qualification format.
Those runs glossed over the league form a fair bit.

getting to two finals in 3 years tends to

Please check what I'm talking about before quoting me.

Well done on the 2 finals *round of applause*
My point was Liverpool wouldn't have been in the competition under the old format and would have just had their league position and the odd domestic cup during that time.

It's pointless comparing era's.
There's been too many changes to the game and formats of competitions to compare them fairly.

SlickRic

Trilla wrote: »

I'm sorry but this is exactly what it is or what it is used as. Most clubs can throw this back at any given time... usually when they are wound up to the last are in mega ultra defensive mode. "Have a place you'll never have". I see that crap in work off some people, the old brigade, who walk around the office thinking they own the place. Walking all over new staff members cause they were there in 1997 when we won company of the year, didnt have a coffee machine or air conditioning and to have a mobile phone meant you were a yuppy. We were there when this happened and achieved this and you'll never have that. Same principal. Its a wánk statement.

fair enough.

i have my opinion because i, quite literally, have never heard the statement, "we'll have a place in the game you'll never have". it's not a statement i could ever envisage someone saying to me in real life.

Morricone

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Good post but for every success Benitez, like most managers, has had his failures. I think on reflection people will note that Benitez inherited a team that included Gerrard, Carragher, Hyypia, Hamann, Finnan, Riise and others. It was a settled stable spine. I think Dalglish is starting from a lower base and suffering because his signings have not worked.

I actually think the football we are trying to play is a lot more pleasing than under Benitez.

Not at you in particular but the whole myth that Liverpool played boring stuff under Benitez is a bit of a myth and misconception.

Sure we were pragmatic but when we went for the throat and breaked with pace like vs Madrid and United in 2009 it was absolutely breathtaking.

Like 3-3 vs Milan and West Ham. 4-2 in Champions League QF vs Arsenal. 08 Semi's vs Chelsea. The 4-4 quarter final vs Chelsea was a classic in 09. The 4-4 vs Arsenal in 09. Jesus in 08/09 some of the football was out of this world.

stumpypeeps

Morricone wrote: »

Not at you in particular but the whole myth that Liverpool played boring stuff under Benitez is a bit of a myth and misconception.

Sure we were pragmatic but when we went for the throat and breaked with pace like vs Madrid and United in 2009 it was absolutely breathtaking.

Like 3-3 vs Milan and West Ham. 4-2 in Champions League QF vs Arsenal. 08 Semi's vs Chelsea. The 4-4 quarter final vs Chelsea was a classic in 09. The 4-4 vs Arsenal in 09. Jesus in 08/09 some of the football was out of this world.

I agree whole heartedly, just believe the way we play under Dalglish (at times) is a little more fluid and attractive.

billybudd

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Good post but for every success Benitez, like most managers, had his failures. I think on reflection people will note that Benitez inherited a team that included Gerrard, Carragher, Hyypia, Hamann, Finnan, Riise and others. It was a settled stable spine. I think Dalglish is starting from a lower base and suffering because his signings have not worked.

I actually think the football we are trying to play is a lot more pleasing than under Benitez.

Obsolete in todays game, no pressing = no success. pass all you want but if you aint scring goals you aint getting points.

The football anfield witnessed during 2007-2009 was sesational at times and we tore teams apart on a regular basis and i for one saw the vision that benitez had for the future and it would have been been a very good future.

I would argue that the set up Daglish found when he took over was alot better than when Benitez took over, remember that Daglishs most consistent spell was when he used mostly benitez players and benitez formations and tactics.

gosplan

willmunny1990 wrote: »

If arsenal had won that final and finished 7th in the league, would it have been viewed as progress?

Well that would involve dropping out of the champions league places so ... obviously.

Not quite the same with Liverpool though. They'll go from sixth to seventh with one or two cups.

stumpypeeps

billybudd wrote: »

Obsolete in todays game, no pressing = no success. pass all you want but if you aint scring goals you aint getting points.

The football anfield witnessed during 2007-2009 was sesational at times and we tore teams apart on a regular basis and i for one saw the vision that benitez had for the future and it would have been been a very good future.

I would argue that the set up Daglish found when he took over was alot better than when Benitez took over, remember that Daglishs most consistent spell was when he used mostly benitez players and benitez formations and tactics.

Not sure about this statement. Benitez took over a team that finished 4th.

billybudd

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Not sure about this statement. Benitez took over a team that finished 4th.

Fair enough, but he took over a team that sold its under performing striker who had been crap for over a year and had the guts of 65 million to spend.

K-9

counterlock wrote: »

Its funny, I never heard about it being devalued or less prestigious when Liverpool won it by finishing 4th in the league.

I can't understand why Liverpool fans keep bringing Ferguson into this saying he should have been sacked. I think its fair to say that since then he has redeemed himself since.

Do keep up, Fergie was yesterday, it had moved onto:

Des wrote: »

"our low ebb is better than your low ebb"

is that what it's come to for Liverpool fans here?


hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa :D:D

Des's clubs crap record in Europe and the league which had very little to do with Fergie seeing as he won a Cup Winners Cup.

Trilla wrote: »

I agree, but that result aside their record is similar if people want to compare, which would mean Kenny was just as consistently shyte. You said it yourself Kenny played stronger sides (I don't know this for a fact when it comes to the first rounds of the carling cup) in the competitions so maybe its unfair to be bringing up being knocked out by Northampton at home on pens.

Well that's the team he picked. The league record isn't all that different, a CC and a cup SF which hasn't been played yet says otherwise. And I don't care about famous victories in Turkey in the Europa cup, United fans are well acquainted with how mickey mouse it is. The problem is the form since Xmas when we were on track for 4th.

Or the staying classy line "no matter how much you talk about us or how shíte our results and performances are, we'll always have a place in the game nobody else has or will have"

Which I questioned earlier, genuinely looking for an answer as to what that means but it got removed/deleted somehow. Maybe I didn't word my question classy enough.

Well you're the one making the big deal of the comment, wouldn't worry too much about it. As the most successful club from Britain in Europe I'd say there is some truth in it.

K-9

Trilla wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with Fuhrers post you quoted.

Nothing.

I assume it was a reference to Hillsborough and Munich considering the stuff he comes out with. My ignore list doesn't block everything unfortunately.

Oranage2

I'll admit that Liverpool are playing some some of the most pleasant football for a long time under Dalglish, I remember the Pool vs Arsenal game and liverpool absolutely dominated but lost 2-1 after playing some very attractive football.

I look at the Liverpool and I dont know what's wrong? Some very good players:

Reina - One of the best keepers in the world.
Johnson - Best english right back and one of the best in England.
Enrique - World class.
Agger - very good but injury prone.
Skrtel - World class.
Henderson - Has a lot of potential.
Lucas - Best DM in the world.
Gerrard - World class.
Downing - Very good professional.
Suarez - Football legend, Children of El Salvador will be singing his name to the ends of dawn.
Carroll - Very good squad player.

So the team is fine, is it a problem with the manager so? which makes me think we should give Dalglish another year to see what he can do.

Adolf Hipster

Oranage2 wrote: »

I'll admit that Liverpool are playing some some of the most pleasant football for a long time under Dalglish, I remember the Pool vs Arsenal game and liverpool absolutely dominated but lost 2-1 after playing some very attractive football.

I look at the Liverpool and I dont know what's wrong? Some very good players:

Reina - One of the best keepers in the world. - not even the best in the PL
Johnson - Best english right back and one of the best in England. - Same as above
Enrique - World class. - nope, he certainly isn't, has been playing very poor as of late aswell.
Agger - very good but injury prone. - I agree here, loved his goal vs west ham a couple years ago
Skrtel - World class. - LOL
Henderson - Has a lot of potential. - Time will tell how good he is when played in his actual position.
Lucas - Best DM in the world. - No, a great player, but best in the world? not a chance.
Gerrard - World class. - not anymore he's not, a shadow of his former self, whether thats due to management or getting old, I dunno.
Downing - Very good professional. - A diving player who can't beat anyone and has barely two assists to rub together.
Suarez - Football legend, Children of El Salvador will be singing his name to the ends of dawn. - hardly a football legend, but a very good player and will do anything to win, I like him.
Carroll - Very good squad player. - He's not a "very good" anything.

So the team is fine, is it a problem with the manager so? which makes me think we should give Dalglish another year to see what he can do.

That team is ridiculously overrated.

Cyrus

cambo2008 wrote: »

Cyrus wrote: »

cambo2008 wrote: »

What I meant there was ye wouldn't have had the champions league runs under the old qualification format.
Those runs glossed over the league form a fair bit.

getting to two finals in 3 years tends to

Please check what I'm talking about before quoting me.

Well done on the 2 finals *round of applause*
My point was Liverpool wouldn't have been in the competition under the old format and would have just had their league position and the odd domestic cup during that time.

It's pointless comparing era's.
There's been too many changes to the game and formats of competitions to compare them fairly.

I knew exactly what you were saying, and I stand by what I said