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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

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    #9842
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,793 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    donalg1 wrote: »
    I seriously doubt that people arent going to consider someone elses salary when deciding if they should pay a self declaration tax.

    So you think they will factor it in?


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    #9843
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Hijpo wrote: »
    So you think they will factor it in?

    I wouldnt think so, well I wouldnt factor it in anyway as it has no bearing on what I do with my money.


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    #9844
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Which means they are opposed to paying more taxes which is what I said.


    Where does it say they are opposed to more taxes? it says the property tax. not having a go, im genuinely interested in where you see that(and where im missing it)
    Being against a particular tax doesnt automatically mean you are opposed to paying more taxes.


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    #9845
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    Where does it say they are opposed to more taxes? it says the property tax. not having a go, im genuinely interested in where you see that(and where im missing it)
    Being against a particular tax doesnt automatically mean you are opposed to paying more taxes.

    They said they are opposed to the property tax which is a tax (clues in the name) now using english we can see that this means they are opposed to paying more taxes. Its really very simple, how you can keep missing it is an absolute mystery to me. Or are you just being pedantic for the sake of it?


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    #9846
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    donalg1 wrote: »
    They said they are opposed to the property tax which is a tax (clues in the name) now using english we can see that this means they are opposed to paying more taxes. Its really very simple, how you can keep missing it is an absolute mystery to me. Or are you just being pedantic for the sake of it?

    Edit.

    Its possible to oppose one section of a system, ie a property tax from our taxation system, then oppose the complete taxation system.

    Its not hard to understand.


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    #9847
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    Government brings in a 10,000 PA tax on people called Donal. DonalG opposes it, yet we know DonalG is not opposed to more taxes.
    simples:D


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    #9848
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Nope


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    #9849
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    Government brings in a 10,000 PA tax on people called Donal. DonalG opposes it, yet we know DonalG is not opposed to more taxes.
    simples:D

    Poll says people are opposed to property taxes. Donalg1 infers that to mean people are opposed to paying property taxes. Bgrizzley misses the point continuously in an effort to troll or in an effort to miss a very simple point.


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    #9850
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Nope

    Sorry, edited post before I copped you'd quoted me.

    You get the point Donal


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    #9851
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,793 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    donalg1 wrote: »
    I wouldnt think so, well I wouldnt factor it in anyway as it has no bearing on what I do with my money.

    Ah, its just you said you "doubt people arent going to concider"
    not being smart, just didnt really know if you meant what you posted or if it was a typo.

    Are you of the belief that the government is contributing to the austerity measures on the same level as the public?


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    #9852
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Poll says people are opposed to property taxes. Donalg1 infers that to mean people are opposed to paying property taxes. Bgrizzley misses the point continuously in an effort to troll or in an effort to miss a very simple point.


    with respect to the honourable Donal i would say that he has finally grasped the point...:)


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    #9853
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Sorry, edited post before I copped you'd quoted me.

    You get the point Donal

    No I really dont get it, what he has got to do with the HHC or Property Tax.


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    #9854
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    with respect to the honourable Donal i would say that he has finally grasped the point...:)

    and bgrizzley is still making no sense at all.

    So tell me b what reason do you think they are opposed to a property tax or water charges. I would love to hear it. Oh and please dont say its a matter of principle I dont want to fall off my chair laughing.


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    #9855
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    You went from...
    donalg1 wrote: »
    Poll finds people dont want to pay more taxes. eek.png

    to...
    donalg1 wrote: »
    Poll says people are opposed to property taxes.


    you get a gold star:D


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    #9856
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    donalg1 wrote: »
    and bgrizzley is still making no sense at all.

    So tell me b what reason do you think they are opposed to a property tax or water charges. I would love to hear it. Oh and please dont say its a matter of principle I dont want to fall off my chair laughing.


    who cares at this stage, we've been over it ad infinitum. principled or unprincipled im just glad this tax is on the way out...;)


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    #9857
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Hijpo wrote: »
    Ah, its just you said you "doubt people arent going to concider"
    not being smart, just didnt really know if you meant what you posted or if it was a typo.

    Are you of the belief that the government is contributing to the austerity measures on the same level as the public?

    Hardly, now its the public and the average joe soap or the middle income earner that is making the biggest contribution to austerity, those at the top are not coming close to making a similiar contribution in relative terms.


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    #9858
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    who cares at this stage, we've been over it ad infinitum. principled or unprincipled im just glad this tax is on the way out...;)

    Well we have known all along the HHC is on its way out and will be replaced with the property tax. ;)


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    #9859
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    donalg1 wrote: »
    No I really dont get it, what has Ian Huntley got to do with the HHC or Property Tax.

    None.

    Which is why i edited my post.

    Now, are you willing to partake in a reasonable debate, or do you want to get petty?


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    #9860
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    You went from...


    to...



    you get a gold star:D

    Yes poll says people are opposed to property taxes, which means people dont want to pay property taxes, unfortunately though bgrizzley I cant give you a gold star just yet.


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    #9861
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Ghandee wrote: »
    None.

    Which is why i edited my post.

    Now, are you willing to partake in a reasonable debate, or do you want to get petty?

    Emmmm pett.... no ok, ah I dont know Ghandee I am feeling petty today!!

    Ha only messing I only saw your edit now. Yes it is possible to oppose one tax and not oppose another, however the discussion is about the property tax. My point is they are clearly opposed to the property tax because they dont want to pay it, no other reason imo. Its others that want to get petty or pedantic over the wording of it.


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    #9862
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1019/1224325457995.html


    THE TROIKA is “not wedded” to a property tax and is open to the measure being replaced by an alternative that would raise the same revenue, Fianna Fáil finance spokesman Michael McGrath has said.


    Mr McGrath met members of the troika mission in Dublin this week and said they made “crystal clear” their position on the incoming tax.


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    #9863
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,793 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1019/1224325457995.html


    THE TROIKA is “not wedded” to a property tax and is open to the measure being replaced by an alternative that would raise the same revenue, Fianna Fáil finance spokesman Michael McGrath has said.


    Mr McGrath met members of the troika mission in Dublin this week and said they made “crystal clear” their position on the incoming tax.

    Would they be open to a number of smaller measures implemented across all levels of pay to raise the same revenue?


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    #9864
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Emmmm pett.... no ok, ah I dont know Ghandee I am feeling petty today!!

    Ha only messing I only saw your edit now. Yes it is possible to oppose one tax and not oppose another, however the discussion is about the property tax. My point is they are clearly opposed to the property tax because they dont want to pay it, no other reason imo. Its others that want to get petty or pedantic over the wording of it.

    Good few reasons more than simply not wanting to pay out though.

    For one, a lot of folk spent stupid money on stamp duty.
    Others feel its unfair they repeatedly have to pay for everything as a homeowner, while tenants, who avail of the same county services we're being told this will pay for, pay nothing.
    Then there's the fear of the 'unknown' ie the govt refusal to give clarity and assurances on the tax, guarantees it won't go tenfold in a few short years.
    There's the issue of paying for all local services separately, aside from the property tax (hhc)

    Lastly, the fear of losing the family home because you may find yourself unable to pay any possible colossal raises by the govt with the tax.

    I think the 'don't want to pay it, just because' accusations should be well worn out by pro tax folk by this stage.


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    #9865
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    i would think they would be open to anything. there has been a multitude of suggestions on how to raise more money than would be gained form a property tax.

    maybe the Troika can see the damage that this tax is doing dividing the country in a time we should all be standing together.


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    #9866
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Good few reasons more than simply not wanting to pay out though.

    For one, a lot of folk spent stupid money on stamp duty.
    Others feel its unfair they repeatedly have to pay for everything as a homeowner, while tenants, who avail of the same county services we're being told this will pay for, pay nothing.
    Then there's the fear of the 'unknown' ie the govt refusal to give clarity and assurances on the tax, guarantees it won't go tenfold in a few short years.
    There's the issue of paying for all local services separately, aside from the property tax (hhc)

    Lastly, the fear of losing the family home because you may find yourself unable to pay any possible colossal raises by the govt with the tax.

    I think the 'don't want to pay it, just because' accusations should be well worn out by pro tax folk by this stage.

    But all of the above come down to the simple fact they dont want to pay it, they dont want to pay it because (insert one of the above reasons), but still they dont want to pay it and thats the bottom line. There are any number of excuses to use but the main one is they dont want to pay.

    Granted the above are very valid reasons and in particular the stamp duty would really p1ss me off if I had to pay it when I bought and was now being asked to pay another tax while others dont have to pay either yet still avail of the same level or even an higher level of services.

    PS. I edited my posts quoting yours where you made mention of a certain individual to remove said persons name from existance.


  • Options
    #9867
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1019/1224325457995.html


    THE TROIKA is “not wedded” to a property tax and is open to the measure being replaced by an alternative that would raise the same revenue, Fianna Fáil finance spokesman Michael McGrath has said.


    Mr McGrath met members of the troika mission in Dublin this week and said they made “crystal clear” their position on the incoming tax.
    So I met the Troika yesterday. And it was a very interesting meeting. From their point of view the Government’s programme, which is predicated on economic growth, may need tweaking to reflect changing economic conditions. In short, they’re not sure Plan A is working and they are open to a plan B.

    I was delighted to hear they were aware of the difficulties that the current approach to fiscal consolidation is causing. They felt that the growth projections for the country are broadly right but this year’s growth would be lower than expected. In response, I’ve called on the government to finally come up with policies that put citizens ahead of bankers’ balance sheets and conclusively address the household debt problem.

    Troika representatives were conscious that cost of living in Ireland was too high, stressed the need for internal devaluation, and stated that the implementation of solutions to the mortgage crisis has been too slow in coming.

    They also said there were opportunities for substantial reductions in public sector spending that wouldn’t result in service provision cuts. In particular they referenced a threefold increase in health spending during the boom years, without a corresponding increase in service provision.

    We also discussed the issues of bondholder payment. it was pointed out that it was the previous government and not the Troika that insisted on payments to unseen unguaranteed bondholders of the pillar banks.

    http://www.stephendonnelly.ie/featured/so-i-met-the-troika-yesterday/

    The part in bold, our govt should be made to give some explanations as to why they lied to us on the reasons they gave for continuing to pay bondholders.

    Someone, somewhere down the line has been bought.


  • Options
    #9868
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    i would think they would be open to anything. there has been a multitude of suggestions on how to raise more money than would be gained form a property tax.

    maybe the Troika can see the damage that this tax is doing dividing the country in a time we should all be standing together.

    I think they are digging their heels in now and are determined to introduce a property tax unfortunately as they will look weak if they back track now.

    I am also weary that they have taken note of the replacement suggestions and are planning on bringing these in too so we will be doubly screwed.


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    #9869
    Izzy Skint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Izzy Skint


    a couple of questions for the pro taxers......

    1. with all the austerity being heaped on tax payers, where will growth in the economy come from ?
    2. what happens if we don't get the growth ?..... more taxes ?

    perhaps some of our politically well connected pro tax posters on this thread, could attempt to answer these.


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    #9870
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    Izzy Skint wrote: »
    a couple of questions for the pro taxers......

    1. with all the austerity being heaped on tax payers, where will growth in the economy come from ?
    2. what happens if we don't get the growth ?..... more taxes ?

    perhaps some of our politically well connected pro tax posters on this thread, could attempt to answer these.


    Me Me Me, I'll answer. As a last resort, all the home owners in the country get together, put all the notional income, (which is generated from our homes) into a suitcase, then pay off all the debts that our country owes (due to all the wild party's over the years). I don't know why anybody did'nt think of it sooner.


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    #9871
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Growth was in line with the euro-zone average last year. Projected to be higher than euro-zone average for 2012 and 2013 according to the recent IMF report.


This discussion has been closed.
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