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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

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    #602
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    paddy147 wrote: »
    And the only ones here to keep on defending Phil Hogan.

    Funny eh??:rolleyes:

    I'm not defending Phil Hogan. Maybe he should have paid his service, charge, maybe he shouldn't - I've no idea - nor do you. What is clear is that the issue has nothing to do with evading taxes.


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    #603
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    alastair wrote: »
    Because the boundaries of South Dublin County Council extend beyond the walls of your estate? Just a wild guess.


    I dont live in Adamstown.My friend and his wife and child do live there though.

    Myself and my girlfriend were talking to them about it over lunch the other day though.

    Fair play of you to just jump to conclusions that I live in Adamstown though.

    Well done indeed "terminator".:rolleyes:



    Oh and you still didnt answer my question though,their estate is privately managed and its privately kept too,and they pay an anual fee for its upkeep.

    So why do they have to pay 100 euro,when the council dont do anything to keep their estate??

    Will you please answer that specific question??


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    #604
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    alastair wrote: »
    I'm not defending Phil Hogan. Maybe he should have paid his service, charge, maybe he shouldn't - I've no idea - nor do you. What is clear is that the issue has nothing to do with evading taxes.

    Correct - its about refusing to pay money for a service that he's supposed to - a service he's already used.
    I again, stand corrected on the use of the word "tax".


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    #605
    JoeGil
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭JoeGil


    Just listening to various reports and it sounds like the registration rate will be well above 50%. I expect it will move over 70% in the coming weeks when any remaining administrative issues have been resolved and it will then be down to convincing the 20% of usual suspects to pay their way.


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    #606
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    alastair wrote: »
    Compelling stuff. The point being?

    I'll preface the comments below with the caveat that this story is 100% true (see my earlier post and today's date)

    He should have paid his bills. If he has an issue, take it up with the courts. They are there to sort these things out. Sounds like he took it upon himself to withhold payment. Does he have some keen legal insight to the workings of a foreign countries legal system that entitles him to break the law (the terms of his contract with the service company)? Does this situation not mirror ever so slightly a lot of the No campaigns reasons for not paying the household charge here (they felt they aren't provided with good enough services from the LA)? Just asking the question now so hold fire on the condescension and snide remarks please...

    I'm basing the above on the way the story was reported so until more facts emerge non one can say definitively what the dispute actually involves.


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    #607
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Biggins wrote: »
    I would expect anyone that has a problem with a service, would address the situation LEGALLY in a court - ESPECIALLY if they were a government minister.

    You know - one of those people that is supposed to lead by example?

    The man is a two faced idiot!

    He wants the public to cough up for services - that he himself is refusing to pay elsewhere because he himself has a argument too over!
    Let me get this straight. If someone sends me a bill that I dispute, I should take them to court?

    This doesn't make sense. Surely it is up to the creditor to demonstrate that the charge is payable, and go to the courts if necessary.

    You're not thinking this through.


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    #608
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Biggins wrote: »
    Correct - its about refusing to pay money for a service that he's supposed to - a service he's already used.
    I again, stand corrected on the use of the word "tax".


    Yep is this 100 euro household charge a charge or a tax??


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    #609
    Le_Dieux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Le_Dieux


    alastair wrote: »
    They're not taxes. They're nothing to do with anyone but a private company and himself.

    Whatever way You want to spin it alastair, this is sending out the wrong signal. ESPECIALLY the following, which hogan is quoted as saying:

    "Would you pay a charge if you were unhappy with the service?" he asked.

    Where I live, we are an abandoned estate 6 years old, with the builder gone out of business in the past month. We were in category PRIOR to the budget announcement last December, yet the DOE, in their wisdom, deemed we do not fall into category 3.

    So again I ask, why should we pay a charge for something we are very unhappy with?


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    #610
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Biggins wrote: »
    Correct - its about refusing to pay money for a service that he's supposed to - a service he's already used.
    I again, stand corrected on the use of the word "tax".
    Why do you say he is supposed to pay? That is in dispute.


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    #611
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    dvpower wrote: »
    The tax is legally payable and not being paid by some.
    The service charge is in dispute and not being paid by Phil Hogan.

    FYP

    But the reasons for both being withheld are the same in both cases - the services (or lack off) provided...funny that. So now we have two comparisons between Phil's tale and the household charge. Wait till I tell Al......


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    #612
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    dvpower wrote: »
    Let me get this straight. If someone sends me a bill that I dispute, I should take them to court?

    This doesn't make sense. Surely it is up to the creditor to demonstrate that the charge is payable, and go to the courts if necessary.

    You're not thinking this through.

    Its a matter of you taking them to court for 'breach of contact' - and thus prove to a judge that they have not lived up to their end of things - otherwise by any standard European law - never mind specific Portuguese law (Law 24/1996) - that your expected otherwise, to pay for those said services.


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    #613
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    paddy147 wrote: »
    I dont live in Adamstown.My friend and his wife and child do live there though.

    Myself and my girlfriend were talking to them about it over lunch the other day though.

    Fair play of you to just jump to conclusions that I live in Adamstown though.

    Well done indeed "terminator".:rolleyes:



    Oh and you still didnt answer my question though,their estate is privately managed and its privately kept too,and they pay an anual fee for its upkeep.

    So why do they have to pay 100 euro,when the council dont do anything to keep their estate??

    Will you please answer that specific question??

    Because the boundaries of South Dublin County Council extend beyond the walls of their estate.


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    #614
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Dv Power and Alastair....

    In view of the story breaking over Phil Hogan and non payment.....

    Do you think Phil Hogan will keep his job??

    YES or NO??

    Just a simple YES or NO will do here.

    Thanks.


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    #615
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    Biggins wrote: »
    You know - one of those people that is supposed to lead by example?

    !

    Biggins, it's hopeless. I tried that line before on here. Some people just don't think it's in the job spec for people who enter in to national government to actually try and do this.


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    #616
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Le_Dieux wrote: »
    So again I ask, why should we pay a charge for something we are very unhappy with?

    Because it's not a contract - you can of course refuse to pay, but you could equally refuse to pay your TV license because you're not happy with the quality of broadcasting - you'll still end up paying above the odds. It's counter-productive.


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    #617
    jimmynokia
    Registered Users Posts: 6,467 ✭✭✭jimmynokia


    http://t.co/4MDhoOVY

    HERE IS MORE ON PHIL HOGAN


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    #618
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    This story is bad for Phil Hogan no matter how he spins it. He asking us to pay for something he is refusing to pay for himself in another country.
    I agree his payment is to a management company and not local authority but the principle is the same.
    It will be interesting to see what the fallout from this will be and what Enda Kenny has to say or even the people who have all ready paid the €100 charge.


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    #619
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    paddy147 wrote: »
    Dv Power and Alastair....

    In view of the story breaking over Phil Hogan and non payment.....

    Do you think Phil Hogan will keep his job??

    YES or NO??

    Just a simple YES or NO will do here.

    Thanks.

    I'd say yes, but I'm not concerned one way or another.


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    #620
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    paddy147 wrote: »
    alastair wrote: »
    Because the boundaries of South Dublin County Council extend beyond the walls of your estate? Just a wild guess.


    I dont live in Adamstown.My friend and his wife and child do live there though.

    Myself and my girlfriend were talking to them about it over lunch the other day though.

    Fair play of you to just jump to conclusions that I live in Adamstown though.

    Well done indeed "terminator".:rolleyes:



    Oh and you still didnt answer my question though,their estate is privately managed and its privately kept too,and they pay an anual fee for its upkeep.

    So why do they have to pay 100 euro,when the council dont do anything to keep their estate??

    Will you please answer that specific question??

    Because unless they never leave their estate they avail of local services


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    #621
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    alastair wrote: »
    I'd say yes, but I'm not concerned one way or another.


    Thanks for the answer.


    Can I ask you this then......


    Why are you defending the man so much??

    You dont seem to see any issue with what he is doing and saying to the papers over his non payment for his luxury holiday home.

    You dont see anything wrong with any of that when you see and listen to all the speeches and lectures he has just given the Irish peiople about paying fees and charges and doing the right thing??



    You see nothing wrong with that then??


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    #622
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Biggins wrote: »
    You know - one of those people that is supposed to lead by example?
    !
    I'm sure Phil Hogan's department get loads of invoices for services provided to the department.
    You want him to authorize payment even where the department dispute that the services were properly delivered?

    And you come on here whinging about government waste.:rolleyes:


  • Options
    #623
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    paddy147 wrote: »
    Thanks for the answer.


    Can I ask you this then......


    Why are you defending the man so much??

    You dont seem to see any issue with what he is doing and saying to the papers over his non payment for his luxury holiday home.

    You dont see anything wrong with any of that when you see and listen to all the speeches and lectures he has just given the Irish peiople about paying fees and charges and doing the right thing??



    You see nothing wrong with that then??

    Once again. I'm not defending the man. I don't know if his dispute is justified or not. I'm simply pointing out that it's got nothing to do with the household charge. I really don't care about his situation one way or another. I didn't vote for him, I didn't vote for his party, the issue is a storm in a teacup. Enda can support or fire him - makes no odds to me.


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    #624
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,326 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    hondasam wrote: »
    This story is bad for Phil Hogan no matter how he spins it. He asking us to pay for something he is refusing to pay for himself in another country.

    Is he refusing to pay his property taxes in Portugal?


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    #625
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    dvpower wrote: »
    I'm sure Phil Hogan's department get loads of invoices for services provided to the department.
    You want him to authorize payment even where the department dispute that the services were properly delivered?

    And you come on here whinging about government waste.:rolleyes:


    DV Power,arent politicians people who are supposed to lead by example though.Moral example too.

    I mean thats what Enda kenny told us all back there last year,but yet they all seem to do the opposite and rub our noses in it.:rolleyes:


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    #626
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    Is he refusing to pay his property taxes in Portugal?
    No. That was just spin.


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    #627
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    alastair wrote: »
    Once again. I'm not defending the man. I don't know if his dispute is justified or not. I'm simply pointing out that it's got nothing to do with the household charge. I really don't care about his situation one way or another. I didn't vote for him, I didn't vote for his party, the issue is a storm in a teacup. Enda can support or fire him - makes no odds to me.


    Ok so,thats fair enough and thats your views.

    I wonder how many people in Ireland though would have the same views as you though,about this "storm in a teacup" matter then??


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    #628
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    dvpower wrote: »
    I'm sure Phil Hogan's department get loads of invoices for services provided to the department.
    You want him to authorize payment even where the department dispute that the services were properly delivered?

    And you come on here whinging about government waste.:rolleyes:

    I would expect him as a government minister - a supposed representative of the Irish nation - to lead by example and at least given his high position and money he gets anyway, to do things right and in the proper methods of addressing such issues!

    After all, are we paying not just for him to do these things but also paying for his many advisor's and legal people to look after him also?

    Whats the Portuguese news papers going to say tomorrow?
    "Irish state minister tell his people to pay their bills even if they have a dispute with it - but refuses to pay one himself!"

    Should be interesting reading what the Portugal is going to think of this double standards!


  • Options
    #629
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Biggins wrote: »
    I would expect him as a government minister - a supposed representative of the Irish nation - to lead by example and at least given his high position and money he gets anyway, to do things right and in the proper methods of addressing such issues!

    After all, are we paying not just for him to do these things but also paying for his many advisor's and legal people to look after him also?

    Whats the Portuguese news papers going to say tomorrow?
    "Irish state minister tell his people to pay their bills even of they have a dispute with it - but refuses to pay one himself!"

    Should be interesting reading what the Portugal is going to think of this double standards!


    It will be very interesting when the dail is back in session and big Phil has to face all the opposition,all the media and the public too.;)

    Im sure a few of his own party members might have a few words with him too over his actions and comments.


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    #630
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    Is he refusing to pay his property taxes in Portugal?

    He is refusing to pay management fee, what is your point?
    He wants us to pay a fee/charge but it's ok for him not to pay for something he agreed when he bought the property. When I built my house I agreed to no such fee.


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    #631
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Biggins wrote: »
    Whats the Portuguese news papers going to say tomorrow?
    "Irish state minister tell his people to pay their bills even of they have a dispute with it - but refuses to pay one himself!"

    Should be interesting reading what the Portugal is going to think of this double standards!


    Maybe they can determine the distinction between a private contract dispute and tax evasion?


This discussion has been closed.
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