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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

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    #572
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Biggins wrote: »
    So he is NOT refusing to pay for services on his home then, is that what your telling us?

    I'm telling you that they're not taxes (as you claimed), and that they're not in any way comparable with the household charge (a tax, where the revenue goes to local authority funding). Maybe he's in arrears with his UPC too, but that wouldn't be a tax either.


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    #573
    Mezcita
    Registered Users Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Mezcita


    Biggins wrote: »
    So he is NOT refusing to pay for services to his home then, is that what your telling us?

    What exactly is it that you don't understand about the difference between a private company and a national government?


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    #574
    stevedublin
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭stevedublin


    Biggins wrote: »
    So he is NOT refusing to pay for services to his home then, is that what your telling us?
    Phil Hogan is NOT refusing to pay taxes on his home. Its a service charge to the management company.


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    #575
    jimmynokia
    Registered Users Posts: 6,467 ✭✭✭jimmynokia


    stevedublin wrote: »
    Phil Hogan is NOT refusing to pay taxes on his home. Its a service charge to the management company.

    SAME DIFFERENCE:)


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    #576
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    phil1nj wrote: »
    The hypocrisy (snigger) of that man! He (big Phil Hogan now) most likely signed a contract with the private holiday home company (a legally binding document) and then, based on what was reported, decided not to pay because he wasn't happy with the services provided. It now looks like rather than go down the legal route of courts etc and what have you he took it upon himself to breach the terms of that contract , withhold payment and therefore has criminalized himself by breaching the terms of his contract, his legally binding (as in lawful) contract. You would never see that happening in this country....oh no wait hang on...:D

    A contract is subject to mutual agreement - the service company might well be in breach of the terms of the contract - we just don't know. The household charge however doesn't require the agreement of the taxed individual - breach of contract isn't a defence for non-payment.


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    #577
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    So I chose my words wrong - I STAND CORRECTED AND RIGHTLY SO!

    The facts still applies:

    HE IS REFUSING TO PAY HIMSELF, FOR SERVICES TO HIS OWN HOME!
    SERVICES THAT UNDER ANY TORT AND CONSUMER LAW OF USING SUCH, THE USER IS LEGALLY OBLIGED TO PAY.


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    #578
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Biggins wrote: »
    They are charges on his home there - go spin the wordplay elsewhere.
    He's refusing to pay for services that his household is using - end of story!
    Why did you represent this private service charge as a tax, biggins?
    Dishonest spinning on your part?


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    #579
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    He is refusing to pay management fees, not really the same as tax or a fee to local government.
    "Would you pay a charge if you were unhappy with the service?" he asked.

    A Quote from P hogan, can I use this line when I refuse to pay?


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    #580
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Biggins wrote: »
    So I chose my words wrong - I STAND CORRECTED AND RIGHTLY SO!

    The facts still applies:

    HE IS REFUSING TO PAY HIMSELF, FOR SERVICES TO HIS OWN HOME!
    SERVICES THAT UNDER ANY TORT AND CONSUMER LAW OF USING SUCH, THE USER IS LEGALLY OBLIGED TO PAY.

    Unless the supplier is, themselves, in breach of contract. Do you know they they aren't?


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    #581
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Biggins wrote: »
    So I chose my words wrong - I STAND CORRECTED AND RIGHTLY SO!

    The facts still applies:

    HE IS REFUSING TO PAY HIMSELF, FOR SERVICES TO HIS OWN HOME!
    SERVICES THAT UNDER ANY TORT AND CONSUMER LAW OF USING SUCH, THE USER IS LEGALLY OBLIGED TO PAY.
    Specifically which law are you saying he is breaking?


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    #582
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    dvpower wrote: »
    Why did you represent this private service charge as a tax, biggins?
    Dishonest spinning on your part?


    Oh sweet lord jesus,I just spilled my tea laughing at what you have said there.

    ROFL at that comment,in light of all your posts here.


  • Options
    #583
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    dvpower wrote: »
    Specifically which law are you saying he is breaking?

    Are you for real? You want to turn this debate into legal points of consumer law?
    Strawman argument and a totally stupid question to boot. Kop yourself on.
    Go try divert the current fact that he won't cough up for services he entitled to pay, elsewhere.

    alastair wrote: »
    Unless the supplier is, themselves, in breach of contract. Do you know they they aren't?
    If a company is in breach - its up to the consumer to issue court proceedings isn't it?
    Not just refuse to pay? Eh?


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    #584
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    alastair wrote: »
    A contract is subject to mutual agreement - the service company might well be in breach of the terms of the contract - we just don't know. The household charge however doesn't require the agreement of the taxed individual - breach of contract isn't a defence for non-payment.

    You may be right. I may be too. But the story states that he wan't happy with the services provided. Not that the services weren't provided so going by this I can only assume that Mr. P Hogan feels he has a genuine issue and that the terms of the contract weren't honored. Why didn't he get the courts or some legal folk involved rather than crimilize himself by withholding payment? Sends out the wrong message to all those patriotic folks on this island.

    Also, it's possible, just possible that this is an April Fools day prank. So I'm going to keep the tone just light enough so as not to piss anybody off :)


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    #585
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    So how come a person living in Adamstown has to pay 100 euro charge then??

    Adamstown is a privately managed estate where the residents pay a set annual fee for the upkeep of their estate.


    I love how the same 2 members here are racing in here to defend Phil Hogan at all costs (or lack of 4,300 euro in costs).



    Show your true colours boys.

    Phil Hogan is a crook,end of.


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    #586
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Biggins wrote: »
    Are you for real? You want to turn this debate into legal points of consumer law?
    Strawman argument and a totally stupid question to boot. Kop yourself on.
    Go try divert the current fact that he won't cough up for services he entitled to pay, elsewhere.
    Why do you say he is 'entitled' to pay these charges.? My reading of the story is that he is in dispute with the service provider.

    Do you have some inside information?


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    #587
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Biggins wrote: »
    Are you for real? You want to turn this debate into legal points of consumer law?
    Strawman argument and a totally stupid question to boot. Kop yourself on.
    Go try divert the current fact that he won't cough up for services he entitled to pay, elsewhere.

    It's an entitlement?

    The straw man argument is to equate a dispute between a customer and a private company with evading taxation. You've no idea if the company involved were meeting their contractual obligations or not.


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    #588
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,120 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    so does anyone know how many have paid, is it 800k as reported?


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    #589
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    so does anyone know how many have paid, is it 800k as reported?


    No one knows,and if they say they do,well they they are talking out of their ar5e.


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    #590
    Lone Stone
    Registered Users Posts: 3,405 ✭✭✭Lone Stone


    paddy147 wrote: »
    So how come a person living in Adamstown has to pay 100 euro charge then??

    Adamstown is a privately managed estate where the residents pay a set annual fee for the upkeep of their estate.


    I love how the same 2 members here are racing in here to defend Phil Hogan at all costs (or lack of 4,300 euro in costs).



    Show your true colours boys.

    Phil Hogan is a crook,end of.

    I wouldnt be surprised if they were on his payroll.


  • Options
    #591
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    paddy147 wrote: »
    So how come a person living in Adamstown has to pay 100 euro charge then??

    Adamstown is a privately managed estate where the residents pay a set annual fee for the upkeep of their estate.

    Because the boundaries of South Dublin County Council extend beyond the walls of your estate? Just a wild guess.


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    #592
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Biggins, you do post an awful lot of rubbish without thinking it through.

    This is a private dispute that we don't know the details of. If it were anyone else in dispute with their management company and they simply paid up, they would be called sheep around here.


  • Options
    #593
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    LOL

    The spin and bull schite continues LOL

    FACT.
    He own a home.

    FACT
    He uses utilities there.

    FACT
    His home has charges upon it for those services.

    FACT
    He is refusing to pay for those services.

    ....Let the FG spin and bullschite continue upon these facts.


  • Options
    #594
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    alastair wrote: »
    It's an entitlement?

    The straw man argument is to equate a dispute between a customer and a private company with evading taxation. You've no idea if the company involved were meeting their contractual obligations or not.


    Do you and DV Power have a litttle thing going on behind the scenes there??.

    The amount of times you have thanked each other is unreal.

    And you are the only ones to thank each others postings.

    And the only ones here to keep on defending Phil Hogan.

    Funny eh??:rolleyes:


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    #595
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    alastair wrote: »
    It's an entitlement?

    The straw man argument is to equate a dispute between a customer and a private company with evading taxation. You've no idea if the company involved were meeting their contractual obligations or not.

    Non payment of fees to a service provider.
    Non payment of a tax to the government.

    Common factor - non payment (just a guess).


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    #596
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    phil1nj wrote: »
    Non payment of fees to a service provider.
    Non payment of a tax to the government.

    Common factor - non payment (just a guess).

    Compelling stuff. The point being?


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    #597
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I didn't pay!

    Why!

    Because the money would have been used to fill the hole left after bailing the bankers, that's why.

    Yes, I know that they'll get it eventually, but this is my way of displaying my displeasure!


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    #598
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,120 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    paddy147 wrote: »
    No one knows,and if they say they do,well they they are talking out of their ar5e.

    are these figures guestimates then? or put out by the gov.

    surely they'll be able to get official figures


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    #599
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,170 ✭✭✭✭km79


    From my point of view the scary thing about this story if it's true is the sheer stupidity from the man involved. Could he not see that his mon payment was going to be an issue given what's going on in his own country. As I said if true scarily stupid ....


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    #600
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    phil1nj wrote: »
    Non payment of fees to a service provider.
    Non payment of a tax to the government.

    Common factor - non payment (just a guess).
    The tax is legally payable.
    The service charge is in dispute.


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    #601
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    dvpower wrote: »
    Biggins, you do post an awful lot of rubbish without thinking it through.

    This is a private dispute that we don't know the details of. If it were anyone else in dispute with their management company and they simply paid up, they would be called sheep around here.

    I would expect anyone that has a problem with a service, would address the situation LEGALLY in a court - ESPECIALLY if they were a government minister.

    You know - one of those people that is supposed to lead by example?

    The man is a two faced idiot!

    He wants the public to cough up for services - that he himself is refusing to pay elsewhere because he himself has a argument too over!


This discussion has been closed.
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