Aircoach Dublin-Cork express

BenShermin

Given the huge level of service given by Aircoach on the Dublin to Cork route now will Gobus actually utilise their licence for this route. It all seems quiet on that front of late. I sincerely hope they do run a service as their coaches offer superior levels of comfort to anything Aircoach have IMO.

devnull

Can't say I agree, The Volvo's GoBus have less legroom, tiered seating which is terrible for anyone tall, especially if you sit down the back, seats that don't properly recline (reclining moves them forward) and they're not leather. Other than that the coaches are fine but for anyone over 6ft1 or so they're awful and uncomfortable.

The Jonck's Aircoach have on that Cork route are full leather, seats that recline a lot, lots of legroom and a smoother ride as the seats are further from the ground. They also have level seating the whole way from front to back. The only downside is the lack of toilet and the fact there is nowhere to store anything on the seat in front.

I generally prefer Citylink for Dublin to Galway, as they have vehicles that are specified far better inside for tall people.

highlydebased

kieran4003 wrote: »

The preparations for the improved train schedule are underway, Irish Rail ran a trial train non stop from Dublin - Cork last night to try the times. There will be huge improvements in a new timetable, but I dont think it will be anytime soon. There are new rails dumped along the line in several places, there is a lot of relaying ongoing. In addition Lisduff has been completly dug up and it will be a few months before it gets its long awaited speed increase.

It really is amazing what competition can do, Irish Rail are dramatically speeding up the rail works and have lowered fares. Bus Eireann are not as concerned as their main market is the intermediate towns, which Aircoach no longer serve and the passengers will move to BE. I must say aswell, the Aircoach service is very punctual, I have seen it arriving in Cork, just a pity it is never well filled. Advertising would sort that.

A little birdy told me they are planning a similar trial for Limerick and Galway too

Judgement Day

Yeah, everything will be alright now with Irish Rail - all they needed was a little competition to shake them up. :rolleyes: If you haven't noticed, CIE's normal reaction to competition is to jack up fares, cutback services etc.etc......Time will tell.

bk

It is great news that IR are improving times to Cork.

But it pisses me off that they didn't do this years ago. Only when competition appears do thy suddenly find ways to reduce the journey times and suddenly find plenty of money to upgrade tracks!!

Goes to show CIE don't do anything unless forced to do so, no proactive development.

Sea Filly

Got the 19:00 Cork Dublin express service yesterday. It made TWO stops! Urlingford and Portlaoise. The driver stopped in Portlaoise because two passengers asked him if he was stopping there, and he bowed to pressure. So it got in at half ten. Express should be express, but in fairness, many passengers were unaware of the timetable changes.

devnull

Someone actually got off or on in Portlaoise? I've never seen that happen before as it's hardly a great location for the stop.

The timetable changed on the 9th May so I guess it shouldn't be something which happened regular.

dowlingm

The trial train Dublin-Cork non-stop. It wasn't just a 22K getting mileage in? Be a bit funny that they were trialling anything speed wise before Lisduff was finished this weekend no?

bk - maybe if IE wasn't building politically motivated lines in the West and relaying Nenagh branch maybe they could have got around to it sooner.

dowlingm

kieran4009 - many thanks. Any whispers of (in my opinion a badly wanted) 0600 Heuston-Cork?

EDIT: removed so not to hijack thread.

Sea Filly

devnull wrote: »

Someone actually got off or on in Portlaoise? I've never seen that happen before as it's hardly a great location for the stop.

Two or three people got off. It stopped at some place called Midway. But, like I said, a good few passengers didn't seem to know it wasn't a stopping service so the driver seemed sympathetic to that.

double jeopardy

Strong rumour has it that GoBus has been seeking the assistance of numerous well established large coach operators in a bid to launch an additional Dublin/Cork service.Its been heard that even its rival on the Galway/Dublin corridor Citylink has been offered the opertunity.It would appear now that the route is fairly well serviced and that it would be foolhardy to think oterwise and id say First Group would view any additional services competing against them as a bit of entertainment.Its obvious now as nobody has started it by now.I travelled down from Dublin last week on late pm service.Non stop was non stop and to be fair they know how to operate a proper shop.Long may it last.:)

foggy_lad

Sea Filly wrote: »

Two or three people got off. It stopped at some place called Midway. But, like I said, a good few passengers didn't seem to know it wasn't a stopping service so the driver seemed sympathetic to that.

They need to announce that it is an express service and anyone needing the bus to stop to use a toilet will be left behind at that point, why was there no announcement at the start of the journey that it is now a non-stop service?

BenShermin

double jeopardy wrote: »

Long may it last.:)

Will it last though? Aircoach have saturated the Dublin to Cork express bus market just like Ryanair done to the flight market a few years ago (and we all know what happened there).

If Gobus don't start the route there's no express bus competition and Aircoach can be as ruthless as they like with their timetable and cut lesser used services. I hope I'm wrong but in seeing their recent attitude to their stopping services I wouldn't hold my breath.

bk

No reason why GoBus can't start. As people here keep mentioning, Aircoach have done zero advertising so far.

All it would take is for GoBus to come along, with buses with toilets and do some pr and marketing and they could quickly overtake Aircoach.

Don't forget Aircoach aren't really their competition. The rich pickings are the Cork to Dublin Bus Eireann customers who haven't heard about this new express service yet and Irish Rail customers who are paying 4 times more.

With some proper advertising there is no reason why there can't be enough customers to take from BE and IR and for both GoBus and Aircoach to flourish together.

After all GoBus is well use to competition with a much more aggressive operator in the form of Citylink on their Galway route.

Of course maybe I'm wrong, maybe they won't start the service, which would mean another company like Citylink or Dublin Coach could take up the license. A little competition would be good and would keep everyone honest.

mydiscworld

Will this speed limit change in Lisduff knock much off IR's time to Cork though?

A non stop train to Cork would be interesting. Think you could only justify a morning one and 5/6pm rush hour on a Friday

kieran4003

mydiscworld wrote: »

Will this speed limit change in Lisduff knock much off IR's time to Cork though?

A non stop train to Cork would be interesting. Think you could only justify a morning one and 5/6pm rush hour on a Friday

That on its own will only save a few minutes. However, there were a number of pinch points with very low speed limits and these have all been upgraded. The upgrade has taken too long, but it has been done without government support and It is finally starting to come together. It will be 100 mph from Dublin - Limerick junction with two exceptions in between, Curragh - 85mph and Portarlington - 80mph. These both have tight curves running throught them. Portarlington was rebuilt and realinged, the previous speed was only 30mph. There are plans to straighten the line through the Curragh, but that would be expensive and require a railway order so that will not be done in the short term. There are a lot or new rails waiting to be laid, there are a string of restrictions owing to works and engineers have to sign off on more speed increases.

I think it is unlikely there will be a non stop service, the best they could could do would probaly be a train with one stop and a journey time of about 2:10. Nevertheless, there are big changes ahead.

mydiscworld

kieran4003 wrote: »

That on its own will only save a few minutes. However, there were a number of pinch points with very low speed limits and these have all been upgraded. The upgrade has taken too long, but it has been done without government support and It is finally starting to come together. It will be 100 mph from Dublin - Limerick junction with two exceptions in between, Curragh - 85mph and Portarlington - 80mph. These both have tight curves running throught them. Portarlington was rebuilt and realinged, the previous speed was only 30mph. There are plans to straighten the line through the Curragh, but that would be expensive and require a railway order so that will not be done in the short term. There are a lot or new rails waiting to be laid, there are a string of restrictions owing to works and engineers have to sign off on more speed increases.

I think it is unlikely there will be a non stop service, the best they could could do would probaly be a train with one stop and a journey time of about 2:10. Nevertheless, there are big changes ahead.

Interesting times ahead so. I'd be happy with 2hrs 30 as standard, stopping at Thurles, Limerick Junction and Mallow

SandyfordGuy

It's good that we're discussing the overall transport between Dublin to Cork, because obviously it is loosely related to the topic in question, but at the same time it has become obvious looking back at this thread that some posters seem to have a conflict of interest they need to declare, I can see a couple of posters who didn't really join such thread until news of New Bus Eireann vehicles and improvements to Irish Rail services and every post seems to relate to that, rather than the actual topic of the thread. Looking back through their posting history it seems that they only post about CIE in some shape or form and every post always has to mention such companies. It is unfortunate to see such shilling on boards.ie but it is hardly surprising.

With regards to the stopping of the intermediate services, there is no way in hell eight services a day are going to be viable alongside the express services. There just simply isn't the demand. On average in the whole running of the Aicoach Cork route you'd have a max 15 passengers to or from the Towns. A bus can't sustain itself with such numbers. The only reason services worked before were because of the combined yields between passengers going end to end and those on shorter distance. An Express service being launched will always mean a passenger shift from the other services and will always mean that the timetable wouldn't be so viable because simply there is less demand. We've seen other operators cut commuter services back after launching express operations and there is nothing surprising there.

Sure the express services are not carrying a large number of passengers there, but there is potential to carry more as after all they are going between the two biggest cities in the state, I don't think there is much room to develop the intercity services and with the price of fuel they're never going to give the kind of returns pre-express service launches. If GoBus or Bus Eireann launch express services it will further dilute the number of passengers on the stopping services, as even more end to end passengers switch to direct services as more people become aware of them. There does seem to be a lot of people in Cork who seem to be upset about the cutting back of the intermediate services, but I would ask how many of these actually use the bus? Very little and certainly not enough to make seven services a day on Aircoach go stopping in each direction when you take into account all the pax which have switched to the direct service.

I understand from what I have read elsewhere that GoBus may be launching later as they have had their deadline extended. I wouldn't rule Aircoach out just yet of making the route work, they appear to be listening to feedback and apparently are going to be making some improvements which will hopefully address some of the concerns that have been raised, and perhaps market a little bit more.

devnull

There was a piece in the Cork Evening Echo this evening pretty much complaining about the fact that the intermediate service have been stopped, whilst it may be negative, I guess it is a little bit of publicity.

It basically consists of a brief mention on the front page that the route is now faster but misses town's out, but the article inside is quite negative with the headline "North Cork Town's bypassed as bus firm cut's services" and goes on to say that services have been drastically cut and a brief mention that the express services have been increased.

However I would say the person who wrote the mention on the front page was different to that of the article itself, as the tone of the headlines are totally different from each other. I guess all publicity may be good publicity though.

bk

Sigh, just goes to show the lack of basic pr and marketing at Aircoach. I really hope they improve this.

When this service first launched, it should have been front page news on the Echo, "breakthrough, new fast, cheap service between Cork to Dublin"

And again when they increased the service it should have been "direct non stop service to Dublin doubled".

It really isn't that hard, you just have to hire the right PR company with the right PR contacts with journalists to get the story out.

Follow up with a cheap but effective gorilla marketing campaign targeting the Irish Rail and Bus Eireann station in Cork with some billboards and students handing out leaflets. Really wouldn't cost much.

traveller2

Looking at the Cork/Dublin route, I’ve doing it quite a bit by train and I note the €10 fares have stopped. When did the promotion officially finish? It appears that €20 is the new rate each way on the train. Student fares appear to be €30 for the next week or two, who knows then.
Going forward how likely that the rail fare will be €20 euro each way? Is this promotional too?
Which leads me onto Aircoach, service looks, very, very attractive €22 is great value from/to great city centre locations, coupled with LUAS/taxis needed for Heuston due to its out of town location, is this what most commuters who do this route each week will be going for?
I figure a small enough car would cost 80 return between petrol and tolls?

devnull

bk wrote: »

Sigh, just goes to show the lack of basic pr and marketing at Aircoach. I really hope they improve this.

When this service first launched, it should have been front page news on the Echo, "breakthrough, new fast, cheap service between Cork to Dublin"

And again when they increased the service it should have been "direct non stop service to Dublin doubled".

It really isn't that hard, you just have to hire the right PR company with the right PR contacts with journalists to get the story out.

Follow up with a cheap but effective gorilla marketing campaign targeting the Irish Rail and Bus Eireann station in Cork with some billboards and students handing out leaflets. Really wouldn't cost much.

There is a guy on twitter who is trying to stir this up further and trying to inform various press outlets about it.

http://twitter.com/#!/stevenrafleming

Aircoach need to react and fast before this gets covered everywhere else a positive development with the direct services will get turned into a negative.

SandyfordGuy

I read elsewhere that Bus Eireann are now leaflet dropping for their existing Dublin to Cork service around Cork today, I would love to know what their unique selling point on such leaflet was, as there is no benefit of taking such service for anyone other than those going between the Town's.

As for the article then of course it was nowhere near a balanced piece and that is why Aircoach really need to work on marketing and PR. The changes benefit many more people than they actually effect in a negative way, as very little people would be using the services between town's, no more than 10 a service in peak from my estimation and lucky to have five off-peak, whilst the number of people who benefit will be by far more.

I've had a look at the twitter account in question and it seems purely the guy involved is trying to stir up as much disgust as possible about the changes and it seems obvious he either has a conflict of interest or some kind of issue with Aircoach apart from the service changes. The comments about the fact that he believes that they are being government funded yet are still cutting back on services is either someone who has been very badly misinformed, or is setting out to mislead people. If he has a conflict of interest then that is very serious in my book.

KCAccidental

devnull wrote: »

There is a guy on twitter who is trying to stir this up further and trying to inform various press outlets about it.

http://twitter.com/#!/stevenrafleming

Aircoach need to react and fast before this gets covered everywhere else a positive development with the direct services will get turned into a negative.

I can't understand his frustration at all. BÉ serve both towns frequently in both directions. By the looks of it he's just throwing the toys out of the pram because he wants PT to work around his schedule of getting to college rather than the other way around.

surely the express service benefits far more people than 10-15 people in intermediate towns.

devnull

I don't understand his frustrations either because like KCAccidental said he has other options to get to/from the other towns and I can understand people being annoyed at it and tweeting once but he seems to be tweeting all day and all night constantly the same lines over and over again and trying to get the press involved.

I see he has just tweeted more a short while ago, again same message over and over again, I don't know what he is expecting to achieve, but I don't think it's a normal reaction so it's no surprise people are suspicious of his motives because he appears to be a little too caught up in it for a bog standard customer who after all has alternatives.

It reminds me of the typical anti Aircoach stuff we had from the likes of dub_commuter and DalkeyResident in the past.

Sponge Bob

On Galway-Dublin Citylink run more express than stopping coaches. Between them they run about 30 services a day each way.

Bus Eireann run around 15 services each way, some semi express/limited stop but the majority stop a lot.

Gobus runs 15 services a day express.

So thats 60 buses a day each way of which c 35 are express or limited stop.

Cork, which is so far unused to taking the bus, is a tad larger than Galway.

parsi

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

I've had a look at the twitter account in question and it seems purely the guy involved is trying to stir up as much disgust as possible about the changes and it seems obvious he either has a conflict of interest or some kind of issue with Aircoach apart from the service changes. The comments about the fact that he believes that they are being government funded yet are still cutting back on services is either someone who has been very badly misinformed, or is setting out to mislead people. If he has a conflict of interest then that is very serious in my book.

He is a student. Why do you think he has a conflict of interest ? From what I can see his interest is quite clear - he wants stopping services.

bk

Actually the break down is quiet interesting:

Cork to Dublin

Aircoach Express 17
Aircoach Stopping 3
Bus Eireann Stopping 6

Total Express 17
Total Stopping 9

Total 26

Galway to Dublin

GoBus Express 18 *
City Link Express 18 *
City Link Stopping 13
Bus Eireann Stopping 15

Total Express 36
Total Stopping 28

Total 64

Wow, 64 services a day versus 26, even after the Aircoach launch. Just goes to show how badly undeserved Cork was.

Looks like there should be plenty of room for GoBus here, even with Aircoach.
Also looks like there could be space for increased BE or Aircoach stopping services going forward.

* These include extra services on Friday and Sunday, GoBus are 16 and CityLink 15 every other day.

LXFlyer

I think it goes to prove that you cannot please everyone with changes such as this, and that there are definitely two markets - Dublin/Cork, and the intermediate towns service.

He's understandably frustrated with his service (combined Bus Eireann/Aircoach) being effectively halved - I don't see any issue with someone complaining about that? Whether he'll get anywhere is another thing.

I think some people are reading far too much into this.

Tragedy

lxflyer wrote: »

I think it goes to prove that you cannot please everyone with changes such as this, and that there are definitely two markets - Dublin/Cork, and the intermediate towns service.

He's understandably frustrated with his service (combined Bus Eireann/Aircoach) being effectively halved - I don't see any issue with someone complaining about that? Whether he'll get anywhere is another thing.

I think some people are reading far too much into this.

There's a difference between criticizing and ranting. Considering his complete lack of knowledge about Aircoach and the fact it's a private company, I don't think one can call his comments 'criticism' as that implies some sort of ability to intelligently judge Aircoachs service.

He's ranting and raving at the bit because a private company decided it was uneconomic to service his area with a bus route at the level he desires. So, he wants a private company to provide a loss making service purely to suit his own needs and desires.

That's not complaining.