Muslims asked to remove headscarves for new Garda card

Nothingbetter2d

Scruffles wrote: »

-a group of muslim women walked past us with the full face/body covering native wear and the tiny slit for seeing through [not sure of the name];

its called a burqa if its the full cover with only the slit for them to see

Lonely? Check out these hot looking women



its called a hijab if its the more standard head cover where u can see the full face.

RichieC

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

its called a burka if its the full cover with only the slit for them to see

its called a hijab if its the more standard head cover where u can see the full face.

Hijab, covers hair and Neck, Nijab covers all except eyes.

hondasam

Scruffles wrote: »

-there shoudnt be a issue as long as the guards offer reasonable accomodations/allowances in making sure muslims can get their photos taken for ID without the disallowed head/face coverage,they have to do it for passports over here so it cannot be breaking any muslim ruling.

though a slightly different case and country,years ago when was still just about able to access the trafford centre,due to disability it meant having to wear a thick hood with ear defenders over the top;otherwise the sensory overload lead to serious problems [health,physical injury,behavior and seizures].
the TC at that time unknowingly brought in a rule which said anyone wearing items which covers all but the face-such as a hood [regardless of how far back it was] woud be made to take it off or excorted off the premises.

had gone there with family and we only just got in the door when was suddenly surrounded and almost cut off from family by a huge pack of red coats [the staff],they said either take off what was wearing or will be physicaly excorted out the building.
regardless of family explaining how the hood and ear defenders were requirements of disabilities and the only way was going to be able to access the place,the redcoats still acted in a threatening way,they said the rule was because the security cameras cannot see peoples faces when they are wearing any such head gear.

we had to leave- surrounded by this pack of goons.
as we were going towards the exit-a group of muslim women walked past us with the full face/body covering native wear and the tiny slit for seeing through [not sure of the name];they werent given any attention from the redcoats-felt so peed off it was unbelievable,had thought how can they ignore the rights of access of disabled people through the DDA [disability discrimination act] yet think religeon is a more valid reason to allow any level of head coverage?

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=trafford%20centere%20bans%20hoodies&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmenmedia.co.uk%2Fmanchestereveningnews%2Fp%2F1487493&ei=ciprT7HvMITKhAe0yviYBw&usg=AFQjCNHN-Unb7FjHrywSsTqcS0lauVbu3A

Interesting story here,No exceptions made .

Nothingbetter2d

RichieC wrote: »

Hijab, covers hair and Neck, Nijab covers all except eyes.

Burqa

As i said it is full cover with only a slit for them to see where they are going

RichieC

never seen one of them in Ireland, I've seen Nijabs and Hijabs, though.

jblack

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

Burqa

As i said it is full cover with only a slit for them to see where they are going

They should be sold in Coppers.

Freddie59

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

when in rome.....

Indeed. Common sense prevails for once.:)

Freddie59

wes wrote: »

The law was obeyed, as per the article. The Women did not break any law. Seems to me that far to many people, aren't actually reading the article, and are just going into full on Xenophobe mode.

Of course they are.:rolleyes:

Freddie59

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I think they should be made remove it too . I'm sure the Garda can provide a female Garda to take the photo .

Why?

Freddie59

af_thefragile wrote: »

You cannot undermine them.

Why?

wes

Freddie59 wrote: »

Of course they are.:rolleyes:

When, they are unable to actually stick to facts, and are essentially making stuff up that never happened to justify there views, then that would be a yes. Unsurprised, that you would as per usual agree with stuff that never happened. The best you can come up with is a rolleyes, which is very much a typical broken record response from yourself. The fact remains the law was not broken, which was the basis of my point, and in fact you don't address my point at all, again a not uncommon response from yourself.

Galwayguy35

wes wrote: »

When, they are unable to actually stick to facts, and are essentially making stuff up that never happened to justify there views, then that would be a yes. Unsurprised, that you would as per usual agree with stuff that never happened. The best you can come up with is a rolleyes, which is very much a typical broken record response from yourself. The fact remains the law was not broken, which was the basis of my point, and in fact you don't address my point at all, again a not uncommon response from yourself.

No a law wasnt broken and the women complied with the Gardai but then they went whinging to their representatives about the way they were treated. As if the Gardai asked them to do something unreasonable. Im sure a nun would have to do the same thing if she was wearing that veil some of them still wear but i doubt there would be headlines about it in the same way as this case. Ones religion is their own business but shouldnt get in the way of day to day procedures that the authorities request of citizens who live in a country.

Seachmall

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

but then they went whinging to their representatives about the way they were treated.

Which they're fully entitled to do.

In a democracy I'd encourage them, or anybody else, to speak to their representatives about issues they want to address.

wes

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No a law wasnt broken and the women complied with the Gardai but then they went whinging to their representatives about the way they were treated.

What whinging? All I see from the article is the following:

A number of women subsequently informed the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland that they had been requested to remove their headscarves or hijab for photographs required for the new version of the registration certificate sometimes known as the Garda National Immigration Bureau or GNIB card.

So where are you getting "whinging" from exactly. There is no suggestion anywhere of anyone "whinging" at all. The Women went to the cultural centre and told them about it, and then the cultural center contacted the Gardai, and it turned out that the whole thing was a misunderstanding.

The fact that you are claiming they were "whinging" proves my point about people making crap up.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

As if the Gardai asked them to do something unreasonable.

The Women complied firstly. They then contacts the Islamic centre and they then asked for clarification, which to you is "whinging"? What is wrong with them doing this? Why is it unreasonable to ask a simple question?

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Im sure a nun would have to do the same thing if she was wearing that veil some of them still wear but i doubt there would be headlines about it in the same way as this case.

I have only seen a single story on this issue, and I haven't seen it making headlines anywhere. You seem to be making this out to be a massive media issue, when personally I have only see the one story posted by the OP.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Ones religion is their own business but shouldnt get in the way of day to day procedures that the authorities request of citizens who live in a country.

They complied with the request, and then the Islamic centre contacted the Guards in regards to it, asked a question. Again, what you are saying is not true, and again it backs up my earlier point. People seem to be making stuff up about this when its suits them.

Galwayguy35

wes wrote: »

What whinging? All I see from the article is the following:


So where are you getting "whinging" from exactly. There is no suggestion anywhere of anyone "whinging" at all. The Women went to the cultural centre and told them about it, and then the cultural center contacted the Gardai, and it turned out that the whole thing was a misunderstanding.

The fact that you are claiming they were "whinging" proves my point about people making crap up.



The Women complied firstly. They then contacts the Islamic centre and they then asked for clarification, which to you is "whinging"? What is wrong with them doing this? Why is it unreasonable to ask a simple question?



I have only seen a single story on this issue, and I haven't seen it making headlines anywhere. You seem to be making this out to be a massive media issue, when personally I have only see the one story posted by the OP.



They complied with the request, and then the Islamic centre contacted the Guards in regards to it, asked a question. Again, what you are saying is not true, and again it backs up my earlier point. People seem to be making stuff up about this when its suits them.

So if i go in wearing a hoodie over my head and i am asked to take it off should i say i wont do it. What arguement will i put forward to say im refusing to do it? The truth is i would just take it off and there would be no more about it. It wouldnt make even one headline in any paper. The point i am making is that this should not have made any headline either as if i do it without hassle then so should they. Agreed?

Galwayguy35

Seachmall wrote: »

Which they're fully entitled to do.

In a democracy I'd encourage them, or anybody else, to speak to their representatives about issues they want to address.

Why? There was no issue to address.

Nodin

jblack wrote: »

They should be sold in Coppers.

...sure thats what the beer is for....

Seachmall

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Why? There was no issue to address.

In your opinion.

luckyfrank

keep the secular muslims feck the rest out

VERMIN !!!

mod note: user banned for this post

wes

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

So if i go in wearing a hoodie over my head and i am asked to take it off should i say i wont do it.

What arguement will i put forward to say im refusing to do it?

You can put forward any arguement you like, but your example is not comparable to what happened in this case either way.

The Women went to the Islamic centre after the fact, and they talked to the Gardai. Last time I checked everyone has that right, including yourself. You could easily do the same in that example.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The truth is i would just take it off and there would be no more about it.

You could easily do the same thing the cultural center did actually. They asked for clarifaction and it turns out there is an already existing exception for Religous head covering for official state IDs. This was not something that the Islamic cultural center some how magically got. It was already there. It would apply to a Jewish man wearing a skull cap, or a nun wearing a habit.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It wouldnt make even one headline in any paper.

Make big enough fuss about it, and it would easily get in the paper.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The point i am making is that this should not have made any headline either as if i do it without hassle then so should they.

Agreed?

What your saying make no sense. A news paper is free to report on what they please.

The women were free to go and ask the Islamic culutural centre to talk to the Gardai on there behalf, and it turns out that such exemptions already exist. I fail to see what they did wrong exactly? Surely people have has the right to ask for clarification on something. If it turned out there was no exception, then they would have to accept that or lobby for a change in the law like everyone can do.

If you don't want to ask a question, why should that mean someone else shouldn't have that right? What your saying is utterly bizare imho. Its one thing to say you feel the law is unfair, which is more than fair enough, but you seem to have an issue with the Islamic culutaral centre talking to the Gardai at all, and I fail to see anything wrong with that, or even that they kicked up much of a fuss about it, as you put it. You are blowing this thing way out of what it actually was imho.

Also, if you want an example of what I was talking about in regards to Xenophobia, the following is a perfect example:

luckyfrank wrote: »

keep the secular muslims feck the rest out

VERMIN !!!

So basically, ask a simple question, and get thrown out of the country.....

Galwayguy35

I just dont understand why the exemption for veils is there in the first place.
I read posts from people saying that religion should no longer get special treatment in Ireland which i agree with. But this seems to be in regard to the RC church, shouldnt the same apply to the Muslim religion?

wes

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I just dont understand why the exemption for veils is there in the first place.

The exception is for all religious head coverings and not veils as you put it. It would equally apply to a habit or a skull cap. The exception wouldn't apply to someone covering there face.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I read posts from people saying that religion should no longer get special treatment in Ireland which i agree with. But this seems to be in regard to the RC church, shouldnt the same apply to the Muslim religion?

There is no special exception for Muslims, its for all Religions. Again, what you are saying is not true, and another example of what I was talking about, people getting angry over crap that isn't true.

As I said, fair enough people consider the exception unfair, but to claim its only for Muslims is simply untrue, and imho another example of Xenophobia.

Unavailable for Comment

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I just dont understand why the exemption for veils is there in the first place.
I read posts from people saying that religion should no longer get special treatment in Ireland which i agree with. But this seems to be in regard to the RC church, shouldnt the same apply to the Muslim religion?

Why? Why would we introduce an unnecessary ruling to placate people like yourself? What is the point beyond trying to make things uncomfortable for people. Who does it benefit?

Galwayguy35

Unavailable for Comment wrote: »

Why? Why would we introduce an unnecessary ruling to placate people like yourself? What is the point beyond trying to make things uncomfortable for people. Who does it benefit?

It makes for an equal society where everyone gets the same treatment and personal beliefs/customs are left at home or kept in whatever place of worship the person chooses to go to. That way noone feels that another person is getting special treatment.

Gummy Panda

Religions are silly

Nodin

luckyfrank wrote: »

keep the secular muslims feck the rest out

VERMIN !!!

Ja!!!!

Unavailable for Comment

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It makes for an equal society where everyone gets the same treatment and personal beliefs/customs are left at home or kept in whatever place of worship the person chooses to go to. That way noone feels that another person is getting special treatment.

So let me get this straight.

You believe that introducing a completely unnecessary regulation, while fully aware that it will upset people for absolutely no purpose beyond making you feel more egalitarian, is not giving you special treatment?

Nodin

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I just dont understand why the exemption for veils is there in the first place.
I read posts from people saying that religion should no longer get special treatment in Ireland which i agree with. But this seems to be in regard to the RC church, shouldnt the same apply to the Muslim religion?

...its an exemption for scarves, not veils.

Galwayguy35

Unavailable for Comment wrote: »

So let me get this straight.

You believe that introducing a completely unnecessary regulation, while fully aware that it will upset people for absolutely no purpose beyond making you feel more egalitarian, is not giving you special treatment?

Just giving my view. I wouldnt feel it would be giving me special treatment. I would be treated the same as everyone else. Ive never suggested everyone would be happy with it but sure you cant please everyone.

Galwayguy35

Nodin wrote: »

...its an exemption for scarves, not veils.

Ok