Escaped cop killer goes on the rampage assualts 3 more cops!

lividduck

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0317/mcdermottm.html

This dirtbag is some piece of work, he kills a Garda, gets a light sentence in an open prison, walks out and goes on the rampage in Derry, attacking three police officers and abusing the Judge!

the purple tin

Idiot just doesn't know when to quit.

Bad Panda

lividduck wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0317/mcdermottm.html

This dirtbag is some piece of work, he kills a Garda, gets a light sentence in an open prison, walks out and goes on the rampage in Derry, attacking three police officers and abusing the Judge!

Proof that capital punishment is warranted in certain cases.

Waste of life and tax payers money.

Ellis Dee

the purple tin wrote: »

Idiot just doesn't know when to quit.

He certainly sounds like his own worst enemy, in addition to being a danger to others. Perhaps open or closed prison is not the best place for him and it might be better to send him to a mental institution for evaluation and possibly appropriate treatment.

Kess73

And to think there is talk of releasing almost two thousand prisoners back into society.

Makes me laugh when I hear that releasing prisoners is the genius solution to overcrowding in some prisons.

Just build more prisons, and make sure people actually serve the sentences they get.

kirving

91 previous convictions, never mind the stuff he problably wasn't caught for. A lot of states in the US have an excellent method of dealing with such people.

Mint Sauce

I know this is the third thread on this, but just read into todays Irish Times he was transfered to Loughlin house with release in 2015, after time already served and good behaviour.

Stick him in an empty sound proof room with a few PSNI and Gardai for a while, then chuck him in the Joy for the rest of his full sentence.

Obviously has no intention of remorse, or has something wrong with him if he thinks he can escape, run over the boarder, and then mess with the toughest force in the whole of the British Isles.

twowheelsonly

Ellis Dee wrote: »

He certainly sounds like his own worst enemy, in addition to being a danger to others. Perhaps open or closed prison is not the best place for him and it might be better to send him to a mental institution for evaluation and possibly appropriate treatment.

Mental Institutions are for people with mental health problems.
Personally I don't consider people with attitude problems who think that laws don't apply to them to be in the same category. And this is a guy with a serious attitude problem.

lividduck

Kess73 wrote: »

And to think there is talk of releasing almost two thousand prisoners back into society.

Makes me laugh when I hear that releasing prisoners is the genius solution to overcrowding in some prisons.

Just build more prisons, and make sure people actually serve the sentences they get.

The guy is a scumbag but you cannot allow the actions of one scumbag to determine the whole penal policy of the state.

bbam

Ellis Dee wrote: »

He certainly sounds like his own worst enemy, in addition to being a danger to others. Perhaps open or closed prison is not the best place for him and it might be better to send him to a mental institution for evaluation and possibly appropriate treatment.

NO
NO
NO..
We should be spending less money on him not more...
Put him in a small dark room and push the food under the door to him..

Spend the money on schools and hospitals..

This guy and many more like him are "right off's" to society.. We should turn our backs on them and move on..

My name is URL

Whoever made the call to send him to an open prison should be sacked tbh. Only 26 years old and almost 100 convictions under his belt.. some people are just beyond any hope of repair.

lividduck

My name is URL wrote: »

Whoever made the call to send him to an open prison should be sacked tbh. Only 26 years old and almost 100 convictions under his belt.. some people are just beyond any hope of repair.

Exactly.
Obviously Mammy or Daddy know someone with some clout, there should be a full independent inquirey as to how this dirtbag ended up in an open prison.

Ellis Dee

irish-stew wrote: »

---
Stick him in an empty sound proof room with a few PSNI and Gardai for a while ...

If I understand that correctly, you are advocating that a prisoner be placed in a soundproof room and then, presumably, beaten up by police officers.

I suppose you are aware that a police officer who assaults a defenceless prisoner, whatever that prisoner might have done or is capable of doing, is committing a serious criminal offence. It is also, of course, an act of craven cowardice and, in the case of a PSNI officer, would be a violation of the oath that all PSNI officers swear to uphold human rights.

I would challenge your apparent assumption that Gardai and PSNI officers in general would be prepared to commit such cowardly and criminal acts. Regrettably, some might, but I still believe they are just a minority of bad apples.

Ireland is, voluntarily, a party to the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/cat.htm


In any civilised country, it is only courts of law that, following due process, can determine punishments.

Be careful what you wish for, because you might not be so happy if you ever get it.:cool:

Ellis Dee

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Mental Institutions are for people with mental health problems.
Personally I don't consider people with attitude problems who think that laws don't apply to them to be in the same category. And this is a guy with a serious attitude problem.

I suggested sending him to a mental institution for evaluation. What that means is that experts would decide whether or not he needs treatment or just has an attitude problem. It seems your expertise outweighs that of the experts, however. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

slavetothegrind

well done to the judges who on each and every one of those previous 91 convictions saw fit to release him back into society.

He obviously, like many others of his ilk, learned that there are no serious consequences in this state, even on conviction of a capital crime.

Then you have elements of the religous coming out with idiotic statements about halving the number of prisoners with no plan as to how to deal with them whatsoever.

Outkast_IRE

For repeat violent offenders capital punishment should be allowed, how any could defend someone like that is beyond me.

Sunnyisland

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

For repeat violent offenders capital punishment should be allowed, how any could defend someone like that is beyond me.

Yep that's worked quite well in the US,CHINA & elsewhere, No more violent crime there :rolleyes:

M cebee

repeat offenders should be off the streets
permanently

lividduck

realies wrote: »

Yep that's worked quite well in the US,CHINA & elsewhere, No more violent crime there :rolleyes:

Well the ones they executed never committed another crime:rolleyes:

twowheelsonly

Ellis Dee wrote: »

I suggested sending him to a mental institution for evaluation. What that means is that experts would decide whether or not he needs treatment or just has an attitude problem. It seems your expertise outweighs that of the experts, however. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Or maybe ask people that have ongoing experience of dealing with these guys on a daily basis rather than put them under the scrutiny of an expert for a half an hour a couple of times.
And yes, I have no problem in saying that my experience, and that of my colleagues, should be listened to and taken into account by some of the so called experts.
A proper expert will take account of an experienced person every time by the way. Unfortunately they're few and far between. Reading the book is fine but you won't fix the the car without getting your hands dirty.

tfitzgerald

bbam wrote: »

NO
NO
NO..
We should be spending less money on him not more...
Put him in a small dark room and push the food under the door to him..

Spend the money on schools and hospitals..

This guy and many more like him are "right off's" to society.. We should turn our backs on them and move on..

I agree 100%

Monty Burnz

Bad Panda wrote: »

Proof that capital punishment is warranted in certain cases.

Waste of life and tax payers money.

I don't like the idea of capital punishment but it's 99% certain this scumbag will spend the rest of his life harming and blighting the lives of others.

There should be some sort of prison island where these pricks are dumped and left to create their own society. Drop enough food on the island for all the prisoners every week from the air.

Cost of housing them > tiny
Incentive to stay within the law > high

Sunnyisland

lividduck wrote: »

Well the ones they executed never committed another crime:rolleyes:

That's true,But would executing people be more about revenge than punishment.Anyway,There is noway that bloke should have been in an open prison,down to portlaoise maximum security is where he belongs and I don't agree with the sentence but that is what our courts decided after taking in all relevant facts about the case.what ever they where.

Logical Fallacy

Kess73 wrote: »

And to think there is talk of releasing almost two thousand prisoners back into society.

Makes me laugh when I hear that releasing prisoners is the genius solution to overcrowding in some prisons.

Just build more prisons, and make sure people actually serve the sentences they get.

We could just important one of Holland's many empty prisons.

DB21

Ellis Dee wrote: »

If I understand that correctly, you are advocating that a prisoner be placed in a soundproof room and then, presumably, beaten up by police officers.

I suppose you are aware that a police officer who assaults a defenceless prisoner, whatever that prisoner might have done or is capable of doing, is committing a serious criminal offence. It is also, of course, an act of craven cowardice and, in the case of a PSNI officer, would be a violation of the oath that all PSNI officers swear to uphold human rights.

I would challenge your apparent assumption that Gardai and PSMI officers in general would be prepared to commit such cowardly and criminal acts. Regrettably, some might, but I still believe they are just a minority of bad apples.

Ireland is, voluntarily, a party to the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/cat.htm


In any civilised country, it is only courts of law that, following due process, can determine punishments.

Be careful what you wish for, because you might not be so happy if you ever get it.:cool:

Because the "person" in question has so dutifully lived up to his responsibilities as a member of this state, and has clearly earned his rights.


Be real, some people enjoy f**king with the law. This lad is a prime example of it. He should be locked in a room with the colleagues of the Garda he killed and a few PSNI officers. He might learn something the hard way.

Joko

They should ship him off to this hellhole:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbfjuYtkJRE

Sunnyisland

DB21 wrote: »

Because the "person" in question has so dutifully lived up to his responsibilities as a member of this state, and has clearly earned his rights.


Be real, some people enjoy f**king with the law. This lad is a prime example of it. He should be locked in a room with the colleagues of the Garda he killed and a few PSNI officers. He might learn something the hard way.

What exactly would he be learning ? That you don't escape from open prison or you will get battered by a gang of policemen, it never worked before in Ireland when it was happening.I am old enough to remember the heavy gang.,I think some people here need to get real if they think by allowing policemen get revenge on someone for killing a college is ok,Where will that kind of justice end ?Policemen are there to uphold our law not implement a punishment.

And that was my 4000th post here so there.

wexie

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I don't like the idea of capital punishment but it's 99% certain this scumbag will spend the rest of his life harming and blighting the lives of others.

There should be some sort of prison island where these pricks are dumped and left to create their own society. Drop enough food on the island for all the prisoners every week from the air.

Cost of housing them > tiny
Incentive to stay within the law > high

I've been saying it all along, we could put a minefield around the beaches to make sure they stay on the island. Then put up webcam's for the monthly food drop (pay-per-view) and make the whole affair a self financing organisation.

On a more serious note guys like these are very unlikely to ever be a useful part of society and while I agree that there's obviously something wrong with him, do we really need to spend a small fortune on 'experts' only to be told that he's had a hard childhood and we should really all feel sorry for him?

With 90 odd previous convictions I'd say he's used up his chances well and truely and at this stage should be taken out of society permanently one way or the other.

Kess73

lividduck wrote: »

The guy is a scumbag but you cannot allow the actions of one scumbag to determine the whole penal policy of the state.

I said nothing about the actions of this one scumbag determining the penal policy of the state.

I said that a possible answer to overcrowding in prisons would be to build new prisons, and that those who commit crimes should actually serve the sentence they are given.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Thanks Joko, I was just a little disappointed there were no beatings in it.

Sunnyisland

Malaysia Tall Kettle wrote: »

Thanks Joko, I was just a little disappointed there were no beatings in it.

They be done of camera .

Run_to_da_hills

Ireland is not the only country that is lax on convicted killers.

Convicted killer escapes after being let out of prison to clear sand at seaside resort

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2116307/Convicted-killer-run-let-prison-clear-sand-seaside-resort.html

Outkast_IRE

realies wrote: »

Yep that's worked quite well in the US,CHINA & elsewhere, No more violent crime there :rolleyes:

Well last time i checked the people who were sentenced to death didnt manage to commit anymore crimes so yes its worked well, especially in china where it just costs a bullet to execute.

Robdude

I've never understood why people think a crime is more significant when it is perpetrated against the police?

It's not enough to be a killer, we have to say this criminal is a COP KILLER! But wait, why do we need to say that? If you are going to kill someone, and if you are forced to rank the severity of targets, isn't it better to kill a cop (who is trained in self-defense, has experience dealing with criminals, and is chosen a career that may place themselves in harms way) than an non-cop?

I guess it just never made sense to me. I think it's far worse to victimize someone who is weaker than you - a child, the elderly, someone physically weaker, etc, etc - but the police....it doesn't seem like that should be a special protected class.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not advocating kill cops or any such nonsense. I'm just questioning why that is perceived as a more heinous crime than killing a defenceless old woman.

Sunnyisland

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Well last time i checked the people who were sentenced to death didn't manage to commit anymore crimes so yes its worked well, especially in china where it just costs a bullet to execute.

In china its not working well at all.violent crime is on the rise. A report by the respected Academy of Social Sciences noted a “dramatic increase” in violent crime, including homicides, robbery and rape, in 2009 over the previous year, with prosecutors reporting 10 percent more cases.

So you would be in favour of executing people for revenge than punishment ? as it shows that having the death penalty does not stop murders or other violent crimes.

And while where here how come in the USA where some states have the death penalty and some don't there is no big difference in the crime rates between states ?

M cebee

realies wrote: »

In china its not working well at all.violent crime is on the rise. A report by the respected Academy of Social Sciences noted a “dramatic increase” in violent crime, including homicides, robbery and rape, in 2009 over the previous year, with prosecutors reporting 10 percent more cases.

So you would be in favour of executing people for revenge than punishment ? as it shows that having the death penalty does not stop murders or other violent crimes.

And while where here how come in the USA where some states have the death penalty and some don't there is no big difference in the crime rates between states ?

ya but the states with the death penalty save money

My name is URL

M cebee wrote: »

ya but the states with the death penalty save money

You sure about that? It costs more; on average in the US, to sentence someone to the death penalty instead of permanent imprisonment.

Ellis Dee

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Well last time i checked the people who were sentenced to death didnt manage to commit anymore crimes so yes its worked well, especially in china where it just costs a bullet to execute.

Of course, China is unique among countries in that they never get the verdict wrong and convict someone who is later found, sometimes after the passage of years, to have been completely innocent. Do the words Birmingham Six ring a bell?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

SeanW

lividduck wrote: »

The guy is a scumbag but you cannot allow the actions of one scumbag to determine the whole penal policy of the state.

No, but you can "allow" 10,000s of scumbags to determine the whole penal policy of the state.

JJayoo

More convictions = More free legal aid = Its not free, we the tax payers pick up the full bill = happy judge +happy lawyer

M cebee

My name is URL wrote: »

You sure about that? It costs more; on average in the US, to sentence someone to the death penalty instead of permanent imprisonment.

you're right
cos it takes years and appeals etc

Outkast_IRE

realies wrote: »

In china its not working well at all.violent crime is on the rise. A report by the respected Academy of Social Sciences noted a “dramatic increase” in violent crime, including homicides, robbery and rape, in 2009 over the previous year, with prosecutors reporting 10 percent more cases.

So you would be in favour of executing people for revenge than punishment ? as it shows that having the death penalty does not stop murders or other violent crimes.

And while where here how come in the USA where some states have the death penalty and some don't there is no big difference in the crime rates between states ?

Well the mass migration from people in the countryside in china, into cities will obviously lead to an increase in crime, they go hand in hand in every society.

In a situation where somebody is a repeat offender of violent crimes , yes i believe execution is justified. Im not talking about a first offence im talking about multiple violent offences, and the main reason i justify it is the cost of keeping such scum in prison for so long.
If you can show me a alternative cost effective way to treat repeat violent offenders im all ears.

Sunnyisland

Mcbee wrote: »

ya but the states with the death penalty save money

A 2003 legislative audit in Kansas found that the estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000).
(December 2003 Survey by the Kansas Legislative Post Audit)
The greatest costs associated with the death penalty occur prior to and during trial, not in post-conviction proceedings. Even if all post-conviction proceedings (appeals) were abolished, the death penalty would still be more expensive than alternative sentences.


Anyway we are going way of track here,There is no death penalty in Ireland and nor will the be for the for seeable future,The convicted man above should have been sent to a proper maximum prison to server his sentence,Its a joke that he wasn't.

steddyeddy

But the garlic guys still locked away safe right?

steddyeddy

Seriously though the death penalty is not the way to go. Its a base human instinct and doesnt beling to a civilised society.

wexie

steddyeddy wrote: »

. Its a base human instinct and doesnt beling to a civilised society.

So is self preservation....

steddyeddy

wexie wrote: »

So is self preservation....

A prison system which kept the dangerous inside instead of an open prison would solve that one.

M cebee

steddyeddy wrote: »

A prison system which kept the dangerous inside instead of an open prison would solve that one.

permanent for repeat offenders

3 strikes 5 even

Sunnyisland

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Well the mass migration from people in the countryside in china, into cities will obviously lead to an increase in crime, they go hand in hand in every society.

In a situation where somebody is a repeat offender of violent crimes , yes i believe execution is justified. I'm not talking about a first offence i'm talking about multiple violent offences, and the main reason i justify it is the cost of keeping such scum in prison for so long.
If you can show me a alternative cost effective way to treat repeat violent offenders in all ears.

You said that execution works well in china,I have posted that in fact it has not worked well and that all serious crime is up there, Going by what you have posted you seem to be saying that its all about the money,Its cheaper to kill people so kill them ?

I don't have all the answers as for the most part I think out justice department do a good job But I don't think killing repeat offenders is the way to go,It wouldn't be long before you would have retaliation from repeat offenders friends against police and judicially,tit for tat and all that goes with it.Which in the long run would cost us a lot more money.

Sunnyisland

steddyeddy wrote: »

But the garlic guys still locked away safe right?

Steddyeddy I would say he is out on appeal and wont think he will do anytime when it finally goes back to court,It was just a shot across the bows of the scammers and fraud brigades.Where coming to get you

BackScrub

Hard to disagree with Eamon Dunphy's 'dump' comment when you see scumbags like this getting such lenient sentences. 100 previous convictions!!! What the hell like?