Escaped cop killer goes on the rampage assualts 3 more cops!

Run_to_da_hills · 17-03-2012 03:16PM

Ireland is not the only country that is lax on convicted killers.

Convicted killer escapes after being let out of prison to clear sand at seaside resort

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2116307/Convicted-killer-run-let-prison-clear-sand-seaside-resort.html

Outkast_IRE · 17-03-2012 04:13PM

realies wrote: »

Yep that's worked quite well in the US,CHINA & elsewhere, No more violent crime there :rolleyes:

Well last time i checked the people who were sentenced to death didnt manage to commit anymore crimes so yes its worked well, especially in china where it just costs a bullet to execute.

Robdude · 17-03-2012 04:17PM

I've never understood why people think a crime is more significant when it is perpetrated against the police?

It's not enough to be a killer, we have to say this criminal is a COP KILLER! But wait, why do we need to say that? If you are going to kill someone, and if you are forced to rank the severity of targets, isn't it better to kill a cop (who is trained in self-defense, has experience dealing with criminals, and is chosen a career that may place themselves in harms way) than an non-cop?

I guess it just never made sense to me. I think it's far worse to victimize someone who is weaker than you - a child, the elderly, someone physically weaker, etc, etc - but the police....it doesn't seem like that should be a special protected class.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not advocating kill cops or any such nonsense. I'm just questioning why that is perceived as a more heinous crime than killing a defenceless old woman.

Sunnyisland · 17-03-2012 04:28PM

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Well last time i checked the people who were sentenced to death didn't manage to commit anymore crimes so yes its worked well, especially in china where it just costs a bullet to execute.

In china its not working well at all.violent crime is on the rise. A report by the respected Academy of Social Sciences noted a “dramatic increase” in violent crime, including homicides, robbery and rape, in 2009 over the previous year, with prosecutors reporting 10 percent more cases.

So you would be in favour of executing people for revenge than punishment ? as it shows that having the death penalty does not stop murders or other violent crimes.

And while where here how come in the USA where some states have the death penalty and some don't there is no big difference in the crime rates between states ?

M cebee · 17-03-2012 04:30PM

realies wrote: »

In china its not working well at all.violent crime is on the rise. A report by the respected Academy of Social Sciences noted a “dramatic increase” in violent crime, including homicides, robbery and rape, in 2009 over the previous year, with prosecutors reporting 10 percent more cases.

So you would be in favour of executing people for revenge than punishment ? as it shows that having the death penalty does not stop murders or other violent crimes.

And while where here how come in the USA where some states have the death penalty and some don't there is no big difference in the crime rates between states ?

ya but the states with the death penalty save money

My name is URL · 17-03-2012 04:37PM

M cebee wrote: »

ya but the states with the death penalty save money

You sure about that? It costs more; on average in the US, to sentence someone to the death penalty instead of permanent imprisonment.

Ellis Dee · 17-03-2012 04:39PM

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Well last time i checked the people who were sentenced to death didnt manage to commit anymore crimes so yes its worked well, especially in china where it just costs a bullet to execute.

Of course, China is unique among countries in that they never get the verdict wrong and convict someone who is later found, sometimes after the passage of years, to have been completely innocent. Do the words Birmingham Six ring a bell?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

SeanW · 17-03-2012 04:41PM

lividduck wrote: »

The guy is a scumbag but you cannot allow the actions of one scumbag to determine the whole penal policy of the state.

No, but you can "allow" 10,000s of scumbags to determine the whole penal policy of the state.

JJayoo · 17-03-2012 04:43PM

More convictions = More free legal aid = Its not free, we the tax payers pick up the full bill = happy judge +happy lawyer

M cebee · 17-03-2012 04:45PM

My name is URL wrote: »

You sure about that? It costs more; on average in the US, to sentence someone to the death penalty instead of permanent imprisonment.

you're right
cos it takes years and appeals etc

Outkast_IRE · 17-03-2012 04:50PM

realies wrote: »

In china its not working well at all.violent crime is on the rise. A report by the respected Academy of Social Sciences noted a “dramatic increase” in violent crime, including homicides, robbery and rape, in 2009 over the previous year, with prosecutors reporting 10 percent more cases.

So you would be in favour of executing people for revenge than punishment ? as it shows that having the death penalty does not stop murders or other violent crimes.

And while where here how come in the USA where some states have the death penalty and some don't there is no big difference in the crime rates between states ?

Well the mass migration from people in the countryside in china, into cities will obviously lead to an increase in crime, they go hand in hand in every society.

In a situation where somebody is a repeat offender of violent crimes , yes i believe execution is justified. Im not talking about a first offence im talking about multiple violent offences, and the main reason i justify it is the cost of keeping such scum in prison for so long.
If you can show me a alternative cost effective way to treat repeat violent offenders im all ears.

Sunnyisland · 17-03-2012 04:57PM

Mcbee wrote: »

ya but the states with the death penalty save money

A 2003 legislative audit in Kansas found that the estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000).
(December 2003 Survey by the Kansas Legislative Post Audit)
The greatest costs associated with the death penalty occur prior to and during trial, not in post-conviction proceedings. Even if all post-conviction proceedings (appeals) were abolished, the death penalty would still be more expensive than alternative sentences.

Anyway we are going way of track here,There is no death penalty in Ireland and nor will the be for the for seeable future,The convicted man above should have been sent to a proper maximum prison to server his sentence,Its a joke that he wasn't.

steddyeddy · 17-03-2012 05:00PM

But the garlic guys still locked away safe right?

steddyeddy · 17-03-2012 05:10PM

Seriously though the death penalty is not the way to go. Its a base human instinct and doesnt beling to a civilised society.

wexie · 17-03-2012 05:21PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

. Its a base human instinct and doesnt beling to a civilised society.

So is self preservation....

steddyeddy · 17-03-2012 05:21PM

wexie wrote: »

So is self preservation....

A prison system which kept the dangerous inside instead of an open prison would solve that one.

M cebee · 17-03-2012 05:24PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

A prison system which kept the dangerous inside instead of an open prison would solve that one.

permanent for repeat offenders

3 strikes

5 even

Sunnyisland · 17-03-2012 05:32PM

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Well the mass migration from people in the countryside in china, into cities will obviously lead to an increase in crime, they go hand in hand in every society.

In a situation where somebody is a repeat offender of violent crimes , yes i believe execution is justified. I'm not talking about a first offence i'm talking about multiple violent offences, and the main reason i justify it is the cost of keeping such scum in prison for so long.
If you can show me a alternative cost effective way to treat repeat violent offenders in all ears.

You said that execution works well in china,I have posted that in fact it has not worked well and that all serious crime is up there, Going by what you have posted you seem to be saying that its all about the money,Its cheaper to kill people so kill them ?

I don't have all the answers as for the most part I think out justice department do a good job But I don't think killing repeat offenders is the way to go,It wouldn't be long before you would have retaliation from repeat offenders friends against police and judicially,tit for tat and all that goes with it.Which in the long run would cost us a lot more money.

Sunnyisland · 17-03-2012 05:38PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

But the garlic guys still locked away safe right?

Steddyeddy I would say he is out on appeal and wont think he will do anytime when it finally goes back to court,It was just a shot across the bows of the scammers and fraud brigades.Where coming to get you

BackScrub · 17-03-2012 05:45PM

Hard to disagree with Eamon Dunphy's 'dump' comment when you see scumbags like this getting such lenient sentences. 100 previous convictions!!! What the hell like?

steddyeddy · 17-03-2012 05:47PM

realies wrote: »

Steddyeddy I would say he is out on appeal and wont think he will do anytime when it finally goes back to court,It was just a shot across the bows of the scammers and fraud brigades.Where coming to get you

You'll never take me alive copper!!!

oppenheimer1 · 17-03-2012 05:59PM

Robdude wrote: »

I've never understood why people think a crime is more significant when it is perpetrated against the police?

It's not enough to be a killer, we have to say this criminal is a COP KILLER! But wait, why do we need to say that? If you are going to kill someone, and if you are forced to rank the severity of targets, isn't it better to kill a cop (who is trained in self-defense, has experience dealing with criminals, and is chosen a career that may place themselves in harms way) than an non-cop?

I guess it just never made sense to me. I think it's far worse to victimize someone who is weaker than you - a child, the elderly, someone physically weaker, etc, etc - but the police....it doesn't seem like that should be a special protected class.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not advocating kill cops or any such nonsense. I'm just questioning why that is perceived as a more heinous crime than killing a defenceless old woman.

Why? because attacking the police and killing a police officer is killing someone who was working to keep others safe. Its also an attack on the institutions of the state.

steddyeddy · 17-03-2012 06:11PM

BackScrub wrote: »

Hard to disagree with Eamon Dunphy's 'dump' comment when you see scumbags like this getting such lenient sentences. 100 previous convictions!!! What the hell like?

In america he would have several life sentences by now or most probrally have been shot by a cop. Hes lucky were not.

17-03-2012 06:14PM

M cebee wrote: »

permanent for repeat offenders

3 strikes 5 even

What about 91 strikes?

take everything · 17-03-2012 06:16PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Whoever made the call to send him to an open prison should be sacked tbh. Only 26 years old and almost 100 convictions under his belt.. some people are just beyond any hope of repair.

Dunno about righting someone off tbh.
But this case is shocking and maddening.
Someone should be definitely answering hard questions over this. If this means heads rolling so be it.

Of course, we all know this embarrassment will be swept under the carpet and nothing will be done.
Ridiculous.

CaSCaDe711 · 17-03-2012 06:18PM

This idiot needs to be caged indefinitely, he's obviously a no-hoper, and the more he's out the more he hassles, and the more it costs.

Is just another case that highlights our laws and sentences must be changed, bring them up-to-date for the new breed of idiot now roaming our streets, a.s.a.p would be nice.

Also, make these scumbags work when they're inside, they don't cooperate then hello long bout of solitary confinement. Word is that life is far too cushy for the majority of them, anything new introduced that might deter even some of them can only be positive.

Robdude · 17-03-2012 06:23PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Why? because attacking the police and killing a police officer is killing someone who was working to keep others safe. Its also an attack on the institutions of the state.

Wouldn't killing *any* public worker be seen as an attack on the institutions of the state? I don't see why one public worker is more vital to the state than others, to the extent that we would subclass the type of killing to reflect it.

And aren't there countless other professions that can be summarized as working to keep others safe?

It's just I've only heard of 'cop killers' and 'killers'. It seems to imply that killing cops is somehow different than killing anyone else; including other public workers and including other professions that work to keep others safe.

It just seems strange to me.

Adolf Hipster · 17-03-2012 06:25PM

The death penalty should never be brought in to Ireland.

steddyeddy · 17-03-2012 06:26PM

Adolf Hipster wrote: »

The death penalty should never be brought in to Ireland.

Well spoken Adolf.

M cebee · 17-03-2012 06:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What about 91 strikes?

way too many
5 tops and you're out
red card:)

Escaped cop killer goes on the rampage assualts 3 more cops!

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