Interesting Report Donegal And The Household Tax

muffler

NIMAN wrote: »

Well I witnessed a big crowd when I was there to pay it.
Obviously I didn't stand around the office all week to see this but a few people I know well work there and said it was very busy all week. I have no reason to think they would invent this.

Oh I dont doubt you at all. I thought that you may have been referring to something that someone else said.

But I would expect the cash office to be busy this month because of the "second house" tax which is due at the end of the month also and bear in mind that there are literally thousands of holiday homes in Donegal.

The 2012 NPPR charge is based upon the ownership and status of the property on the 31st March 2012. So - if you own a property in Ireland on 31st March 2012 and it is not your main residence you will be liable for the NPPR charge.( Non principal private residences).

The council had an official on Highland Radio during the week and he said that people were queued out to the door but did not categorically confirm the reason. All he would say was that they were APPARENTLY paying their household charges which was a complete cop out. Every single cent paid to the council is given a code and that code can be accessed at a moments notice so there's no excuse for not being able to provide hard facts.

It was a bit disingenuous of that guy to use the word "apparently". Its a bit like Council officials (among others) using the term "its my understanding"...that normally indicates that they either dont know or they wish to put a different slant on something.

implausible

muffler wrote: »

But I would expect the cash office to be busy this month because of the "second house" tax which is due at the end of the month also and bear in mind that there are literally thousands of holiday homes in Donegal.

The NPPR isn't due the end of March, it's based on the status of the house at the end of March. The deadline is actually the end of June:

Please note that you must pay the NPPR charge for 2012 on or before the 30th June to avoid late payment fees.

That's another gripe of mine - I have to pay the NPPR on a house I no longer live in and cannot sell. Now, they're expecting me to pay another E100 on top of the E200:( So people who are in the unfortunate financial situation I'm in are being penalised on the double and paying E300 per annum to the county council.

NIMAN

Even heard rumours that they might be working this Saturday too to cope with demand of those paying the HC.

muffler

NIMAN wrote: »

Even heard rumours that they might be working this Saturday too to cope with anticipated demand of those paying the HC.

FYP

donegal_road

NIMAN wrote: »

The office in Carndonagh was jammed all last week with people queuing to pay the charge.

Read into that what you will.

it was mentioned over on Politics.ie that over 30% of people who registered in Dublin, did so to declare their exemption from the tax. This was not disclosed on the main news though :rolleyes:

Am Chile

muffler wrote: »

Thats not an option. The days of "no go areas" are in the past and people can choose to be civil and decide if they want to answer a knock at the door or not or even engage in a debate with someone at the door.

In saying all that I cant see a situation of council workers going door to door. Their unions wouldn't allow it.

I don,t actually mean creating no go areas-I think the idea of sending out council workers door to door is an Intimidating tactic which will make some people afraid in their own homes-plus its an dangerous idea thats very much open to fraud as anyone could get a photo ID badge and knock on doors-there was two reports about this today.

Meath Co. Council is warning homeowners not to hand over money after reports that people have been posing as council staff and knocking door-to-door to collect the household charge.

A number of such incidents have been reported in the Meath area in recent days.

In a statement, the council confirmed it does not have any staff or agents collecting the €100 levy on its behalf.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/council-warns-householders-not-to-pay-bogus-charge-collectors-545107.html

Plus also around parts of Donegal

People are being warned to be on the lookout after reports of people claiming to be from the Council trying to collect the household charge.
There has been a number of reports today of people going round door to door in the Glengad and Buncrana areas pretending to be from the local authority.
Donegal County Council have confirmed no-one has been authorised to collect the household charge on its behalf.

http://www.highlandradio.com/2012/03/27/reports-of-fake-collectors-asking-people-to-pay-household-charge/

Noreen1

donegal_road wrote: »

it was mentioned over on Politics.ie that over 30% of people who registered in Dublin, did so to declare their exemption from the tax. This was not disclosed on the main news though :rolleyes:

I've been thinking along those lines, myself.

I wonder how many homes in Donegal are exempt?

It seems to me that lots of exemptions would be a good ploy to get people to register - it bumps up the numbers nicely without making it clear how many have paid, helping to "encourage" those who are undecided to pay up.

Anyone any idea how many Council tenants live in Donegal? I'd guess there are a fair few - and since Donegal is more sparcely populated than many parts of the Country, (used as an excuse for years for the lack of local amenities, imo) I'd also guess that that we will be expected to eventually contribute a lot more than €100 in years to come - for "services" that we still will not receive........ Cue for a lot less exemptions in the future, methinks.

IsItJustMeOr...

According to an article on Highland's website '...Donegal was said to have the lowest collection rate of any council in the country.'

Personally I think this is embarrassing. There is little point certain people crying that Donegal is the 'forgotten County' when we've results like this. What local services do we expect now?

Oh by the way, I'm one of those that did pay. May not have liked it but it had to be paid. Is that fair??

http://www.highlandradio.com/2012/04/02/deputy-pringle-says-household-charge-campaign-has-been-a-huge-success/

NIMAN

There was talk today on the radio that the Gov might try to teach us a lesson by allocating less money for arts, festivals and the like to those counties which have the highest levels of non-payment.

If true, doesn't bode well for Donegal.

Then it will have caused a rift between payers and non-payers, maybe what the Gov wants.

Winty

I left Donegal 10 years ago and now live in London.

In the UK we have been paying Council Tax since 1993.

Back then my home was taxed at £400.00 per year, this year I will pay £1,800.00

In Ireland its something to be worried about. It may only £100 this year but what will it be in 10 years time?

donegal_road

Maybe its because people feel that Donegal had been neglected so much previously that there was such low 'compliance' to the household charge. If we are guarenteed services for the charge, it would be worth it.

Joe 90

Winty wrote: »

I left Donegal 10 years ago and now live in London.

In the UK we have been paying Council Tax since 1993.

Back then my home was taxed at £400.00 per year, this year I will pay £1,800.00

In Ireland its something to be worried about. It may only £100 this year but what will it be in 10 years time?

And I'll bet the poll tax was less than the council tax that replaced it in the UK. At least, that is the case for use, two working adults.

IsItJustMeOr...

I don't know or claim to know the percentages, but If the majority of householders in Donegal didn't pay, why would we even think we are entitled to get funding equal to that of counties where the majority did pay??

Donegal as a county does not deserve to be carried just as my family should not have to carry those who won't pay.

Firblog

IsItJustMeOr... wrote: »

just as my family should not have to carry those who won't pay.

You're not paying for any services being delivered by Donegal Co Council, you're paying of the debts of the bankers, so your family is carrying them only.

I haven't paid, but would be more than willing to pay a council tax if there is democratic oversight of what it gets spent on, which any money going to Donegal County Council doesn't have.. elected councillors (bad an all as they are) have no say on how the council budget is spent, unelected officals decide what is spent and where.

mac_iomhair

when you pay this money it will be heading to all directions of the world to pay unsecured bondholders. This money will be going into a black hole. This whole chat about local services is only a PR stunt to frighten people into paying.

2moreMinutes

Firblog wrote: »

You're not paying for any services being delivered by Donegal Co Council, you're paying of the debts of the bankers, so your family is carrying them only

The money paid is going to be funding local authorities, including our own local Co Council.

It annoys me as much as it annoys you or anyone half sensible that we have spent so much bailing out the banks as well as other waste over the years but the fact remains that even if we didnt give one of these infamous red cents to the banks, we would still have a massive shortfall to try to make up in our normal day to day spending. (To clarify, I'm not affiliated to any political party nor do I particularly like any of them).

Why should I pay more than someone else to have the potholes repaired at the hospital? Why should I pay more than someone else to help in having the street lighting on at night? Why should I pay more than someone else to have a clean main street? Why should I pay more than someone else to ensure that the parks are well maintained?

I can understand those that genuinely cannot afford to pay €100 but I borderline detest those who are refusing to pay and base their reasoning on false information spread by those who have no purpose in political life other than preying on peoples fears. I know this is a very unpopular approach but its the truth.

MajorMax

muffler wrote: »

Indeed I was just going to say that

I'll put my head on the chopping block here and predict that approx. 80% of households will not have paid the charge come midnight on March 31st.

MajorMax sharpens axe

muffler

MajorMax wrote: »

MajorMax sharpens axe

I dont think the figure was so far out to merit beheading but Im in for a slight scalping

Am Chile

There was a motion passed at Donegal co council tonight against using Utilty bills/social welfare records to Identify and track people who have boycotted the household tax.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/22978#.T43l7LMQNkU.facebook

Durnish

see, if youse all don't pay this small charge how will Donegal C C fund itself?

ednwireland

Joe 90 wrote: »

And I'll bet the poll tax was less than the council tax that replaced it in the UK. At least, that is the case for use, two working adults.

you think the house i lived in in th uk when poll tax came in went from £200 rates to £2500 undr the poll tax (why do you think we didnt pay)

its one of thereasons poll tax went, people couldnt afford it (this is nearly 20 years ago the wanted over 10% of my annual wage in poll tax

donegal_road

Am Chile wrote: »

There was a motion passed at Donegal co council tonight against using Utilty bills/social welfare records to Identify and track people who have boycotted the household tax.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/22978#.T43l7LMQNkU.facebook

they couldn't do this anyway under the Data Protection Act, weren't they just confirming what already existed?

ednwireland

donegal_road wrote: »

they couldn't do this anyway under the Data Protection Act, weren't they just confirming what already existed?

but the gov. were claiming thats exactly what they'd do

donegal_road

the Data Commissioner agreed to release information on individuals so long as it was destroyed soon afterwards

muffler

I cant get the link now but I read on the Highland Radio website yesterday that 70% of people in Donegal have not registered for the household charge. I have no idea how accurate that figure is or where it was sourced.

2moreMinutes

Am Chile wrote: »

There was a motion passed at Donegal co council tonight against using Utilty bills/social welfare records to Identify and track people who have boycotted the household tax.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/22978#.T43l7LMQNkU.facebook]

My understanding of this is just that the councillors passed a motion calling for utility bills not to be used to determine who has not paid their household charge.

The motion being passed, as with most motions that are discussed and/or passed for the benefit of the media coverage, has no real effect except to show the people of Donegal that their councillors listen to them, i.e. standard populist nonsense.

danjo

Anybody like to see their household charge used in this manner?

Link

I assume the story in today's Independent is true

donegal_road

2moreMinutes wrote: »

The money paid is going to be funding local authorities, including our own local Co Council.

It annoys me as much as it annoys you or anyone half sensible that we have spent so much bailing out the banks as well as other waste over the years but the fact remains that even if we didnt give one of these infamous red cents to the banks, we would still have a massive shortfall to try to make up in our normal day to day spending. (To clarify, I'm not affiliated to any political party nor do I particularly like any of them).

Why should I pay more than someone else to have the potholes repaired at the hospital? Why should I pay more than someone else to help in having the street lighting on at night? Why should I pay more than someone else to have a clean main street? Why should I pay more than someone else to ensure that the parks are well maintained?

I can understand those that genuinely cannot afford to pay €100 but I borderline detest those who are refusing to pay and base their reasoning on false information spread by those who have no purpose in political life other than preying on peoples fears. I know this is a very unpopular approach but its the truth.

On the front of today's Daily Mail

All of the €175 million paid in property tax so far, is going towards our bailout debt, and not - as was promised - to fund badly needed local services.

danniemcq

donegal_road wrote: »

On the front of today's Daily Mail

Varadkar was on the radio this morning disputing this saying it was a lie.

Now i'm all confused, I don't trust either of these sources but both can't be lying.

munchkin_utd

danniemcq wrote: »

Varadkar was on the radio this morning disputing this saying it was a lie.

Now i'm all confused, I don't trust either of these sources but both can't be lying.

the Daily Mail is well known for liberally twisting the facts to suit their agenda/ need to sell newspapers.

If the 175million went into central funds it would make only a tiny dint on day to day things like social welfare which is 110times that figure or the health system which is about 80times that figure.

The money the government is spending on day to day stuff is mindblowing and taxes arent remotely high enough to cover that expenditure, let alone anything related to banks that just adds to (not creates) the problem.