Interesting Report Donegal And The Household Tax

eth0

firemansam4 wrote: »

Yea I understand where you are coming from, and I found it hard enough to get the 100 euros never mind if it was 500 or 1000, but the government did say they will be making it more fair and the people who can afford to pay more will be paying more so i guess I will have to wait and see what happens with that.

The government said they'd never bring in this tax before getting elected.

If it was supposed to be fair it wouldn't be a lump sum based on what kind of house you live in. This tax is a load of nonsense

Pique

yourpics wrote: »

Pique wrote: »

In the HC case, it is high time that every family/household, be they working or in receipt of SW, contribute financially to their local govt.

I think you are naive if you think this €100 is going towards the provision of local services.

I think that was made as clear as is humanly possible on the Late Late tonight.
However I do agree with Ming that the level of utter wastefulness in govt departments like health and local authorities must be dealt with or else.

Pique

firemansam4 wrote: »

Pique wrote: »

seriously, if this is the reason.....

I think the demeanor of your post is almost insulting to anyone unfortunate enough to have lost there job recently - You describe middle class wage slaves as the ones picking up the tab for everything, so i guess the lower class workers are just lazy people who don't pay there way?
And I suppose anyone who has lost there job are probably all spongers who don't want to work and pay any taxes?

Believe it or not there are people out of work who find it demeaning and would like nothing better too be back working again.

I Actually paid my household charge because I believe the money has to come from somewhere and the government have to bridge that massive 15 billion deficit some how. But I can understand why others feel so agreived especially when large sums keep getting paid to bond holders of banks who caused this mess. And I certainly wouldn't call people idiots for not paying.

You can guess and think and suppose and infer all you wish.
My points, unpleasant as you may think, still stand true.
Lower paid workers have been gradually removed from the tax net in the last 10 years. Note, I mentioned nothin about them being lazy, dunno how you made that out.
Your straw man argument is a typical obfuscation of the discussion.
There is huge sponging going on in the SW recipients, hence the huge numbers reported in the fraud clampdown. Donegal is as guilty as anywhere on that score.
Those unlucky to lose their jobs and trying to find work, I have the utmost respect for.
Bondholders did not cause this mess. they merely changed the magnitude of it.
We were screwed before that haopened and even if you took all that Anglo and bailout money away, we would still be screwed, just maybe not for as long.
Plenty of people need to do hard time over that but I personally hate the tabloid-esque placards referring to separate issues and ignoring that we need the money!
"Can't pay won't pay" should read "I didn't cause this, someone else should pay".

jonnygee

Pique wrote: »

You can guess and think and suppose and infer all you wish.
My points, unpleasant as you may think, still stand true.
Lower paid workers have been gradually removed from the tax net in the last 10 years. Note, I mentioned nothin about them being lazy, dunno how you made that out.
Your straw man argument is a typical obfuscation of the discussion.
There is huge sponging going on in the SW recipients, hence the huge numbers reported in the fraud clampdown. Donegal is as guilty as anywhere on that score.
Those unlucky to lose their jobs and trying to find work, I have the utmost respect for.
Bondholders did not cause this mess. they merely changed the magnitude of it.
We were screwed before that haopened and even if you took all that Anglo and bailout money away, we would still be screwed, just maybe not for as long.
Plenty of people need to do hard time over that but I personally hate the tabloid-esque placards referring to separate issues and ignoring that we need the money!
"Can't pay won't pay" should read "I didn't cause this, someone else should pay".

"Cant pay wont pay" should read " I didnt cause this, the people that caused this should pay"
Here,s a new slogan "can pay, wont pay"

yourpics

Water charges are supposed to be incorporated into motor tax already, but I doubt they will reduce motor tax to reflect this when water charges are brought in.

I hope everyone on here comes out to the protest tomorrow, don't just be a "keyboard warrior"

firemansam4

Pique wrote: »

You can guess and think and suppose and infer all you wish.
My points, unpleasant as you may think, still stand true.
Lower paid workers have been gradually removed from the tax net in the last 10 years. Note, I mentioned nothin about them being lazy, dunno how you made that out.
Your straw man argument is a typical obfuscation of the discussion.
There is huge sponging going on in the SW recipients, hence the huge numbers reported in the fraud clampdown. Donegal is as guilty as anywhere on that score.
Those unlucky to lose their jobs and trying to find work, I have the utmost respect for.
Bondholders did not cause this mess. they merely changed the magnitude of it.
We were screwed before that haopened and even if you took all that Anglo and bailout money away, we would still be screwed, just maybe not for as long.
Plenty of people need to do hard time over that but I personally hate the tabloid-esque placards referring to separate issues and ignoring that we need the money!
"Can't pay won't pay" should read "I didn't cause this, someone else should pay".

Well there is a reason people who earn more money pay more taxes, its because they are able to afford to pay more! I've been in the higher tax band myself going back many years ago and I never had a problem paying more if I had it, at the end of the day middle class earners are taking home plenty more than people who are probably struggling to makes ends meat on minimum wage.

As for the part where you say bond holders didn't create this mess I would argue that they did pay there part in contributing to it, if they never kept pouring the money into Anglo and other banks at the time then we would't be in this mess, or maybe to a lot lesser extent anyway.
And I do know that the money being paid to the bold holders is only part of the problem but it is hard for people to stomach paying these new taxes when the government is then paying billions out to these bond holders.

muffler

Listen lads, this thread is slipping away from the local issues.

If you want to talk about taxes, bond holders etc there are other forums.

eth0

how many was at the protest today. yer man said 2000 but it seems like a high number. strange that so many would turn up here and so relatively few in dublin.

i know there is a definite pro-establishment bias in Dublin but i'd have expected 20 or 30000 there

firemansam4

muffler wrote: »

Listen lads, this thread is slipping away from the local issues.

If you want to talk about taxes, bond holders etc there are other forums.

Yea fair enough, is going off topic i suppose.

Pique

eth0 wrote: »

how many was at the protest today. yer man said 2000 but it seems like a high number. strange that so many would turn up here and so relatively few in dublin.

i know there is a definite pro-establishment bias in Dublin but i'd have expected 20 or 30000 there

Highland radio said over a thousand in Letterkenny.
Breakingnews.ie said over 2000 in Dublin at the National Stadium.

I'm amazed that elected members of the Dail (including local TDs) are calling for people to break the law.
I suppose most of them in current opposition have probably done so themselves in the past in one form or another so it's no big deal to them.

homer simpson

Pique wrote: »

Highland radio said over a thousand in Letterkenny.
Breakingnews.ie said over 2000 in Dublin at the National Stadium.

I'm amazed that elected members of the Dail (including local TDs) are calling for people to break the law.
I suppose most of them in current opposition have probably done so themselves in the past in one form or another so it's no big deal to them.

Really? Please don't post sweeping statement's, I'm sure you can prove that most TD's that are in opposition to the tax have broke the law can you?

Warning Given.

yourpics

Estimates put the crowd in Letterkenny at between 2000 and 3000.

Remember that these "laws" have not been introduced democratically, TD's have voted for them under duress (they risk losing the party whip if they vote against them). Career Politicians who have quickly forgotten about those in Donegal who voted them in.

homer simpson

Some photos of today's march on the Killea Can't pay facebook page. Seemed to be a very good crowd at it, I was working on Main street, took a good 10 minutes for everyone to pass where I was.

Pique

homer_simpson wrote: »

Really? Please don't post sweeping statement's, I'm sure you can prove that most TD's that are in opposition to the tax have broke the law can you?

Warning Given.[/B]

Ok maybe not most, but definitely some.
We all know who they probably are at this point I'm sure.
Im not going to drag this thread off topic but of the 2 major parties in opposition there is plenty of history surrounding their tenuous party respect for various laws of the land.
It just seems a bit disingenuous that's all.

Bot. It would be amazing if more people protested in LK than in Dublin.
Considering the need for funds locally which isn't forthcoming from the exchequer, I was under the impression that the independence mentality of Donegal would incline people to support their underfunded local area with the HC (which is ringfenced for local authorities) rather than depend on Dublin funding the forgotten county.

yourpics

If every part of the country had the same levels of resistance as Gaoth Dobhair, this government would be finished!

eth0

homer_simpson wrote: »

Some photos of today's march on the Killea Can't pay facebook page. Seemed to be a very good crowd at it, I was working on Main street, took a good 10 minutes for everyone to pass where I was.

I'm getting "This content is currently unavailable"

muffler

eth0 wrote: »

I'm getting "This content is currently unavailable"

Ditto

yourpics

muffler wrote: »

Ditto

You need to log into Facebook and then just search for Killea Can't Pay Won't Pay

Am Chile

In understand it was a good turnout for the protest in letterkenny yesterday well done to everyone-After yesterdays threat-In the event of council workers knocking on doors looking for money I think setting up a neighbourhood watch group in as many areas as possible to counter it, if an area is properly organised if any council workers dare coming knocking on doors for money they ran out of the area faster then they came in.

NIMAN

The office in Carndonagh was jammed all last week with people queuing to pay the charge.

Read into that what you will.

muffler

NIMAN wrote: »

The office in Carndonagh was jammed all last week with people queuing to pay the charge.

Did you witness this yourself NIMAN?

muffler

Am Chile wrote: »

In the event of council workers knocking on doors looking for money I think setting up a neighbourhood watch group in as many areas as possible to counter it, if an area is properly organised if any council workers dare coming knocking on doors for money they ran out of the area faster then they came in.

Thats not an option. The days of "no go areas" are in the past and people can choose to be civil and decide if they want to answer a knock at the door or not or even engage in a debate with someone at the door.

In saying all that I cant see a situation of council workers going door to door. Their unions wouldn't allow it.

yourpics

I can confirm there was no queue out the door in Donegal Town on Friday, my friend tells me there was no queue in Letterkenny either.

I spoke with a person recently who paid and I asked them why they paid, they said fear. What sort of a way is that to live your life? What sort of a way is that to run a country?

Pique

yourpics wrote: »

I spoke with a person recently who paid and I asked them why they paid, they said fear. What sort of a way is that to live your life? What sort of a way is that to run a country?

That's not my motivation, nor the motivation of others I've spoken to who have paid.
Nobody really WANTS to pay taxes in any case.
Far better I suppose to cut funding to health or education or whatever (as long as it doesn't affect me personally) :rolleyes:

yourpics

Pique wrote: »

That's not my motivation, nor the motivation of others I've spoken to who have paid.
Nobody really WANTS to pay taxes in any case.
Far better I suppose to cut funding to health or education or whatever (as long as it doesn't affect me personally) :rolleyes:

In fairness, that is only one example, but a lot of pensioners have paid because of fear.
It would be better if we cut the funding to Anglo and useless TD's

Pique

Pique wrote: »

Considering the need for funds locally which isn't forthcoming from the exchequer, I was under the impression that the independence mentality of Donegal would incline people to support their underfunded local area with the HC (which is ringfenced for local authorities) rather than depend on Dublin funding the forgotten county.

By the way, can any Donegal natives please comment on this particular observation in relation to their objection to pay the HC?
I am interested in the seeming disparity between the "Dublin don't care about us and that's fine, to hell with them, we can look after ourselves" mentality and the refusal to pay a tax to fund and support the local govt directly.

Pique

yourpics wrote: »

It would be better if we cut the funding to Anglo and useless TD's

100% agree.
Unfortunately that particular decision was made a few years ago, and the deal is done and the perpetrators are enjoying their ministerial pensions of 100k+ now.
If we stopped paying useless TDs there'd be about 20 of 166 paid.

muffler

Warnings given to yourpics and Pique. There are plenty of other forums for the comments you guys posted.

To everyone: If you cant keep the discussion about local issues then just ignore this thread and post elsewhere.

yourpics

Pique wrote: »

By the way, can any Donegal natives please comment on this particular observation in relation to their objection to pay the HC?
I am interested in the seeming disparity between the "Dublin don't care about us and that's fine, to hell with them, we can look after ourselves" mentality and the refusal to pay a tax to fund and support the local govt directly.

Problem here is people are getting a very poor service locally, people do not believe that this money is going to local services and they do not believe that local services will improve as a result.
A good example is a debate on here about a road in Letterkenny, reported months ago and no action has been taken.

NIMAN

muffler wrote: »

Did you witness this yourself NIMAN?

Well I witnessed a big crowd when I was there to pay it.
Obviously I didn't stand around the office all week to see this but a few people I know well work there and said it was very busy all week. I have no reason to think they would invent this.