Interesting Report Donegal And The Household Tax

Am Chile

Interesting report about the numbers paid the household tax in Donegal.

With just over two weeks to go before the deadline for the registration for the house hold charge it has been claimed that as few as 11 per cent of households here in Donegal have registered - suggesting a remarkable 89 per cent, for whatever reason, have not opted to pay the controversial charge.

http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/local/89-in-donegal-ignoring-house-charge-claim-1-3625816#.T2NzUPQAwRM.facebook

According the 2011 Population census there.s a population of 160,927 in Donegal, 90% haven,t registered or paid the household tax, how many here in Donegal forum, Intend to pay? Intend not to pay? waiting till last minute to decide?

http://www.inishowennews.com/011DonegalCensus308.htm


Mod edit: Please read the forum charter.

danniemcq

you might wanna edit your first link to, how could I put this, a better more reliable source or remove it altogether.

Am Chile

danniemcq wrote: »

you might wanna edit your first link to, how could I put this, a better more reliable source or remove it altogether.

I put in another source from todays article in Donegal democrat if thats ok.

Pique

I'm registered and will be paying over the weekend
Why? Well I'm not an idiot who thinks that refusing to pay makes it go away, that's why.

donegal_road

thanks for the advice Pique.. *I am now scurrying off like a good little citizen & paying the household tax so the government can build parks and children's hospitals*

muffler

Pique wrote: »

Well I'm not an idiot who thinks that refusing to pay makes it go away, that's why.

If that's to be believed then about 90% of the Irish householders are idiots so

Pique

muffler wrote: »

Pique wrote: »

Well I'm not an idiot who thinks that refusing to pay makes it go away, that's why.

If that's to be believed then about 90% of the Irish householders are idiots so

We'll see how many are when the deadline comes.

Pique

donegal_road wrote: »

thanks for the advice Pique.. *I am now scurrying off like a good little citizen & paying the household tax so the government can build parks and children's hospitals*

Fine dont pay. It's not as if the current level of affected people (one per household) will be changed if it's not paid.
No, the shortfall won't be just picked up by taxing the middle income working classes. SW will surely be affected to make sure this is equitable.

Oh wait....

muffler

Pique wrote: »

We'll see how many are when the deadline comes.

Indeed I was just going to say that

I'll put my head on the chopping block here and predict that approx. 80% of households will not have paid the charge come midnight on March 31st.

Am Chile

Pique wrote: »

I'm registered and will be paying over the weekend
Why? Well I'm not an idiot who thinks that refusing to pay makes it go away, that's why.

Its about getting a u turn done on this issue, the pensioners a few years ago got a u turn on the medical cards issue, One stage of the anti household tax Campaign has being won, The anti household tax campaign aimed for mass non registration and mass non payment by st patricks day they got for they aimed for, more them 1.5 million have not registered or paid,which give more confidence to people feeling unsure to go over the deadline and not pay,and force a u turn.

The Assistinator

Pique wrote: »

I'm registered and will be paying over the weekend
Why? Well I'm not an idiot who thinks that refusing to pay makes it go away, that's why.

i myself am exempt from paying it(unfinished estate) but i shall still not be registering this is about more than not paying the household tax this is about sending out a message.:mad:

Pique

Am Chile wrote: »

force a u turn.

seriously, if this is the reason then the naiveté is staggering.
Pensioners kept their medical cards, true. They are in the vast majority of cases, deserving of it.
However, that still had to be paid for elsewhere. It isn't the case that a massive overspend by the govt on SW and PS wage bills simply goes away when a tax is objected to. It is raised elsewhere.

In the HC case, it is high time that every family/household, be they working or in receipt of SW, contribute financially to their local govt. As any reduction to the (by comparative standards) generous SW in Ireland brings out the hysterical references to the "most vulnerable in society" and "won't somebody think of the children" brigade, then this is the fairest method of extracting a contribution.

If it doesn't happen this way, it will be the usual overtaxed middle income wage slaves that pick up the bill and the protests cease as those affected are working and can't afford to stand on the street with placards daubed with "can't pay won't pay" schtick.

So it's either everyone pays, or every worker pays.

muffler

Pique wrote: »

seriously, if this is the reason then the naiveté is staggering.
Pensioners kept their medical cards, true. They are in the vast majority of cases, deserving of it.
However, that still had to be paid for elsewhere. It isn't the case that a massive overspend by the govt on SW and PS wage bills simply goes away when a tax is objected to. It is raised elsewhere.

In the HC case, it is high time that every family/household, be they working or in receipt of SW, contribute financially to their local govt. As any reduction to the (by comparative standards) generous SW in Ireland brings out the hysterical references to the "most vulnerable in society" and "won't somebody think of the children" brigade, then this is the fairest method of extracting a contribution.

If it doesn't happen this way, it will be the usual overtaxed middle income wage slaves that pick up the bill and the protests cease as those affected are working and can't afford to stand on the street with placards daubed with "can't pay won't pay" schtick.

So it's either everyone pays, or every worker pays.

You're not Jimmy Harte in real life by any chance?

muffler

Mod hat on: Can we keep the focus on Donegal please

Pique

muffler wrote: »

You're not Jimmy Harte in real life by any chance?

Lol nope.
I'm one of the wage slaves.

.17hmr

i will not be paying either for its the bank that has my deed so by law it aint my house :-)

byte

.17hmr wrote: »

i will not be paying either for its the bank that has my deed so by law it aint my house :-)

I like your way of thinking

yourpics

Pique wrote: »

In the HC case, it is high time that every family/household, be they working or in receipt of SW, contribute financially to their local govt.

I think you are naive if you think this €100 is going towards the provision of local services. The fire brigade has just doubled the price of a call-out, you have to pay to get your bin lifted and motor tax has gone through the roof.

Firblog

There is no accountability for what Donegal County Council spends any money on.. Councillors have no say in what services are prioritised, all is in the hands of unelected officials who can pay higher rates to themselves than people in the same jobs in other councils.. Untill that situation is fixed then there should be no local revenue raising powers given to local authorities esp Donegal

Noreen1

I haven't paid, nor do I have any intention of paying before the deadline.

I've asked several of my neighbours, and none of them have paid, or intend to pay, either!

As I see it, people voted against the last Government in the G.E because they disagreed with their policies. The result was a new Government, who implemented the exact same policies.

I see this as an opportunity to protest, and to try to stop the financial noose tightening any further around the necks of future generations.
The protest may, or may not succeed, but I least I will be able to look my children, and grandchildren in the face, and say "I tried!".

muffler

Nice little clip on the RTE news a couple of days ago. Can be viewed on the RTE player...starts about 36:10

eth0

Protest on tomorrow?

yourpics

eth0 wrote: »

Protest on tomorrow?

Yes indeed - Assemble at the Station Roundabout, Letterkenny (Tesco's Roundabout) at 3pm. All welcome. Bring placards but make sure they are apolitical.

overshoot

yourpics wrote: »

I think you are naive if you think this €100 is going towards the provision of local services. The fire brigade has just doubled the price of a call-out, you have to pay to get your bin lifted and motor tax has gone through the roof.

Thats the problem with this and what they say it is going towards... Correct me if im wrong but the there is a similar house tax in england which then covers bins, water, sewage etc. These are all separate here and they have not shown any signs of removing these... the introduction of the septic tank registration fee is a further example of why this isnt going to change!
The two of these and more could have been incorporated into one fee where it is just tick the boxes to which you avail of eg septic tank +5e, public sewer +50e, water- public mains +50e, gws 0 etc. bins service charge +100. its clear what you are paying for and how much. for a "household tax" it shouldnt be hard to show the services that you are paying for

donegal_road

I got a flyer in the letterbox today explaining how I can pay the household charge, first correspondence I received from any official source so far, albeit a generic flyer with nothing personalised on it.

The dept of the Environment hope to raise €160 million from household charge registration... isn't it funny how the same department is in charge of the Mahon tribunal which is costing approx €300 million

*dont mean to be dragging off topic but thought it was worth a mention

firemansam4

Pique wrote: »

seriously, if this is the reason then the naiveté is staggering.
Pensioners kept their medical cards, true. They are in the vast majority of cases, deserving of it.
However, that still had to be paid for elsewhere. It isn't the case that a massive overspend by the govt on SW and PS wage bills simply goes away when a tax is objected to. It is raised elsewhere.

In the HC case, it is high time that every family/household, be they working or in receipt of SW, contribute financially to their local govt. As any reduction to the (by comparative standards) generous SW in Ireland brings out the hysterical references to the "most vulnerable in society" and "won't somebody think of the children" brigade, then this is the fairest method of extracting a contribution.

If it doesn't happen this way, it will be the usual overtaxed middle income wage slaves that pick up the bill and the protests cease as those affected are working and can't afford to stand on the street with placards daubed with "can't pay won't pay" schtick.

So it's either everyone pays, or every worker pays.

I think the demeanor of your post is almost insulting to anyone unfortunate enough to have lost there job recently - You describe middle class wage slaves as the ones picking up the tab for everything, so i guess the lower class workers are just lazy people who don't pay there way?
And I suppose anyone who has lost there job are probably all spongers who don't want to work and pay any taxes?

Believe it or not there are people out of work who find it demeaning and would like nothing better too be back working again.

I Actually paid my household charge because I believe the money has to come from somewhere and the government have to bridge that massive 15 billion deficit some how. But I can understand why others feel so agreived especially when large sums keep getting paid to bond holders of banks who caused this mess. And I certainly wouldn't call people idiots for not paying.

jonnygee

Yes , the government have to bridge the defecit somehow. but by taking away money that the taxpayers were previously paying to fund local services and then asking them to pay again by inventing this new charge just isnt on in my opinion.

K-9

overshoot wrote: »

Thats the problem with this and what they say it is going towards... Correct me if im wrong but the there is a similar house tax in england which then covers bins, water, sewage etc. These are all separate here and they have not shown any signs of removing these... the introduction of the septic tank registration fee is a further example of why this isnt going to change!
The two of these and more could have been incorporated into one fee where it is just tick the boxes to which you avail of eg septic tank +5e, public sewer +50e, water- public mains +50e, gws 0 etc. bins service charge +100. its clear what you are paying for and how much. for a "household tax" it shouldnt be hard to show the services that you are paying for

Well bins are privatised now but I do agree the FG and Labour have handled this appallingly, you'd wonder what all these PR and spin doctor guys get paid for!

firemansam4

jonnygee wrote: »

Yes , the government have to bridge the defecit somehow. but by taking away money that the taxpayers were previously paying to fund local services and then asking them to pay again by inventing this new charge just isnt on in my opinion.

Yea I think the way they have gone about it is a big farce and they should have waited til they had the value based system in place but at the end of the day the money has to come from some where, if its not this tax it will be another or more cuts.

I hate the way we are all lumbered now to pay for this because of the gross negligence of the politicians and banks, but we are in this situation none the less and the more this country borrows the more of a hole we(this country) are digging for our selves

jonnygee

But just how much are you prepared to pay. 100 this year, 500 next year, 1000 the year after plus water rates. and god forbid that they would ever privatise the water here which they are probably contemplating doing.That would be the final straw for me.
We are in some hole allright.

firemansam4

jonnygee wrote: »

But just how much are you prepared to pay. 100 this year, 500 next year, 1000 the year after plus water rates. and god forbid that would ever privatise the water here which they are probably contemplating doing.That would be the final straw for me.
We are in some hole allright.

Yea I understand where you are coming from, and I found it hard enough to get the 100 euros never mind if it was 500 or 1000, but the government did say they will be making it more fair and the people who can afford to pay more will be paying more so i guess I will have to wait and see what happens with that.

I would be more inclined to protest about the septic tank charges which seem to be a pure attack on the rural community in Ireland and how on earth they think people can suddenly come up with 10 grand to change there septic tank is beyond belief, but that's going off topic so I will leave that their.

eth0

firemansam4 wrote: »

Yea I understand where you are coming from, and I found it hard enough to get the 100 euros never mind if it was 500 or 1000, but the government did say they will be making it more fair and the people who can afford to pay more will be paying more so i guess I will have to wait and see what happens with that.

The government said they'd never bring in this tax before getting elected.

If it was supposed to be fair it wouldn't be a lump sum based on what kind of house you live in. This tax is a load of nonsense

Pique

yourpics wrote: »

Pique wrote: »

In the HC case, it is high time that every family/household, be they working or in receipt of SW, contribute financially to their local govt.

I think you are naive if you think this €100 is going towards the provision of local services.

I think that was made as clear as is humanly possible on the Late Late tonight.
However I do agree with Ming that the level of utter wastefulness in govt departments like health and local authorities must be dealt with or else.

Pique

firemansam4 wrote: »

Pique wrote: »

seriously, if this is the reason.....

I think the demeanor of your post is almost insulting to anyone unfortunate enough to have lost there job recently - You describe middle class wage slaves as the ones picking up the tab for everything, so i guess the lower class workers are just lazy people who don't pay there way?
And I suppose anyone who has lost there job are probably all spongers who don't want to work and pay any taxes?

Believe it or not there are people out of work who find it demeaning and would like nothing better too be back working again.

I Actually paid my household charge because I believe the money has to come from somewhere and the government have to bridge that massive 15 billion deficit some how. But I can understand why others feel so agreived especially when large sums keep getting paid to bond holders of banks who caused this mess. And I certainly wouldn't call people idiots for not paying.

You can guess and think and suppose and infer all you wish.
My points, unpleasant as you may think, still stand true.
Lower paid workers have been gradually removed from the tax net in the last 10 years. Note, I mentioned nothin about them being lazy, dunno how you made that out.
Your straw man argument is a typical obfuscation of the discussion.
There is huge sponging going on in the SW recipients, hence the huge numbers reported in the fraud clampdown. Donegal is as guilty as anywhere on that score.
Those unlucky to lose their jobs and trying to find work, I have the utmost respect for.
Bondholders did not cause this mess. they merely changed the magnitude of it.
We were screwed before that haopened and even if you took all that Anglo and bailout money away, we would still be screwed, just maybe not for as long.
Plenty of people need to do hard time over that but I personally hate the tabloid-esque placards referring to separate issues and ignoring that we need the money!
"Can't pay won't pay" should read "I didn't cause this, someone else should pay".

jonnygee

Pique wrote: »

You can guess and think and suppose and infer all you wish.
My points, unpleasant as you may think, still stand true.
Lower paid workers have been gradually removed from the tax net in the last 10 years. Note, I mentioned nothin about them being lazy, dunno how you made that out.
Your straw man argument is a typical obfuscation of the discussion.
There is huge sponging going on in the SW recipients, hence the huge numbers reported in the fraud clampdown. Donegal is as guilty as anywhere on that score.
Those unlucky to lose their jobs and trying to find work, I have the utmost respect for.
Bondholders did not cause this mess. they merely changed the magnitude of it.
We were screwed before that haopened and even if you took all that Anglo and bailout money away, we would still be screwed, just maybe not for as long.
Plenty of people need to do hard time over that but I personally hate the tabloid-esque placards referring to separate issues and ignoring that we need the money!
"Can't pay won't pay" should read "I didn't cause this, someone else should pay".

"Cant pay wont pay" should read " I didnt cause this, the people that caused this should pay"
Here,s a new slogan "can pay, wont pay"

yourpics

Water charges are supposed to be incorporated into motor tax already, but I doubt they will reduce motor tax to reflect this when water charges are brought in.

I hope everyone on here comes out to the protest tomorrow, don't just be a "keyboard warrior"

firemansam4

Pique wrote: »

You can guess and think and suppose and infer all you wish.
My points, unpleasant as you may think, still stand true.
Lower paid workers have been gradually removed from the tax net in the last 10 years. Note, I mentioned nothin about them being lazy, dunno how you made that out.
Your straw man argument is a typical obfuscation of the discussion.
There is huge sponging going on in the SW recipients, hence the huge numbers reported in the fraud clampdown. Donegal is as guilty as anywhere on that score.
Those unlucky to lose their jobs and trying to find work, I have the utmost respect for.
Bondholders did not cause this mess. they merely changed the magnitude of it.
We were screwed before that haopened and even if you took all that Anglo and bailout money away, we would still be screwed, just maybe not for as long.
Plenty of people need to do hard time over that but I personally hate the tabloid-esque placards referring to separate issues and ignoring that we need the money!
"Can't pay won't pay" should read "I didn't cause this, someone else should pay".

Well there is a reason people who earn more money pay more taxes, its because they are able to afford to pay more! I've been in the higher tax band myself going back many years ago and I never had a problem paying more if I had it, at the end of the day middle class earners are taking home plenty more than people who are probably struggling to makes ends meat on minimum wage.

As for the part where you say bond holders didn't create this mess I would argue that they did pay there part in contributing to it, if they never kept pouring the money into Anglo and other banks at the time then we would't be in this mess, or maybe to a lot lesser extent anyway.
And I do know that the money being paid to the bold holders is only part of the problem but it is hard for people to stomach paying these new taxes when the government is then paying billions out to these bond holders.

muffler

Listen lads, this thread is slipping away from the local issues.

If you want to talk about taxes, bond holders etc there are other forums.

eth0

how many was at the protest today. yer man said 2000 but it seems like a high number. strange that so many would turn up here and so relatively few in dublin.

i know there is a definite pro-establishment bias in Dublin but i'd have expected 20 or 30000 there

firemansam4

muffler wrote: »

Listen lads, this thread is slipping away from the local issues.

If you want to talk about taxes, bond holders etc there are other forums.

Yea fair enough, is going off topic i suppose.

Pique

eth0 wrote: »

how many was at the protest today. yer man said 2000 but it seems like a high number. strange that so many would turn up here and so relatively few in dublin.

i know there is a definite pro-establishment bias in Dublin but i'd have expected 20 or 30000 there

Highland radio said over a thousand in Letterkenny.
Breakingnews.ie said over 2000 in Dublin at the National Stadium.

I'm amazed that elected members of the Dail (including local TDs) are calling for people to break the law.
I suppose most of them in current opposition have probably done so themselves in the past in one form or another so it's no big deal to them.

homer simpson

Pique wrote: »

Highland radio said over a thousand in Letterkenny.
Breakingnews.ie said over 2000 in Dublin at the National Stadium.

I'm amazed that elected members of the Dail (including local TDs) are calling for people to break the law.
I suppose most of them in current opposition have probably done so themselves in the past in one form or another so it's no big deal to them.

Really? Please don't post sweeping statement's, I'm sure you can prove that most TD's that are in opposition to the tax have broke the law can you?

Warning Given.

yourpics

Estimates put the crowd in Letterkenny at between 2000 and 3000.

Remember that these "laws" have not been introduced democratically, TD's have voted for them under duress (they risk losing the party whip if they vote against them). Career Politicians who have quickly forgotten about those in Donegal who voted them in.

homer simpson

Some photos of today's march on the Killea Can't pay facebook page. Seemed to be a very good crowd at it, I was working on Main street, took a good 10 minutes for everyone to pass where I was.

Pique

homer_simpson wrote: »

Really? Please don't post sweeping statement's, I'm sure you can prove that most TD's that are in opposition to the tax have broke the law can you?

Warning Given.[/B]

Ok maybe not most, but definitely some.
We all know who they probably are at this point I'm sure.
Im not going to drag this thread off topic but of the 2 major parties in opposition there is plenty of history surrounding their tenuous party respect for various laws of the land.
It just seems a bit disingenuous that's all.

Bot. It would be amazing if more people protested in LK than in Dublin.
Considering the need for funds locally which isn't forthcoming from the exchequer, I was under the impression that the independence mentality of Donegal would incline people to support their underfunded local area with the HC (which is ringfenced for local authorities) rather than depend on Dublin funding the forgotten county.

yourpics

If every part of the country had the same levels of resistance as Gaoth Dobhair, this government would be finished!

eth0

homer_simpson wrote: »

Some photos of today's march on the Killea Can't pay facebook page. Seemed to be a very good crowd at it, I was working on Main street, took a good 10 minutes for everyone to pass where I was.

I'm getting "This content is currently unavailable"

muffler

eth0 wrote: »

I'm getting "This content is currently unavailable"

Ditto

yourpics

muffler wrote: »

Ditto

You need to log into Facebook and then just search for Killea Can't Pay Won't Pay

Am Chile

In understand it was a good turnout for the protest in letterkenny yesterday well done to everyone-After yesterdays threat-In the event of council workers knocking on doors looking for money I think setting up a neighbourhood watch group in as many areas as possible to counter it, if an area is properly organised if any council workers dare coming knocking on doors for money they ran out of the area faster then they came in.

NIMAN

The office in Carndonagh was jammed all last week with people queuing to pay the charge.

Read into that what you will.