Lack of sympathy over killing of Roma girl.

benway

humberklog wrote: »

The story has been covered very well. It was investigated very badly at the beginning. As I mentioned earlier in a post, the gardai thought she was married off within her own community.

The story was very well covered in print media from day one.

Personally, I don't perceive any lack of sympathy - although ... some of the comments on this thread. Shocking crime, absolutely shocking, anyone I've spoken to about it feels the same.

Seems to me that the Gardaí have botched the investigation, again, and now they're desperately trying to turn it back around on the general public, thinking that their only hope of securing a conviction here is through the culprits being turned in by someone close to them. Be that as it may, I hope someone does turn in the heartless b@stards.

mikemac1 wrote: »

People relate to people like them

If I may bring up a common tactic in the famous Daily Mail
Mrs Stephens was found murdered in her house with a value of quarter of a million.

The value of the house means nothing but the editors insert it for a reason. You'll often see it in reports.

We have a serious problem with snobbery and class divisions in this country, whether people like to admit it or not - generally only come out through the prism of crime and criminal justice, you don't generally see the lower classes in the papers otherwise. The newspapers know this, and propagate it, to a large extent ... imho.

I don't think it's "human nature" not to give a sh!t about the other, I think that these stories are presented in such a way as to direct people's feelings about them - sensationalism, essentially. Human nature is to empathise with other people ... unless you're a sociopath.

token101 wrote: »

No, but it did help bring in the new special gang legislation which means the vermin can be tried and convicted by judges, rather than juries. Which they were today Lets hope the vermin don't get out this time

I'm afraid not, there hasn't been a single conviction under the 2009 Act. It was a piece of populist theatre, pure and simple - playing in to people's hatred of "vermin" to score political points, it's of no practical use whatsoever.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/anti-gangland-laws-fail-to-yield-one-conviction-184041.html

There was an existing means of sending gang members before the Special Criminal Court, which is what has been used in this instance.

Thargor

I missed this if its been posted already but look what the scum in the Sunday World did with this story:

http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/02/12/youre-too-old-let-go-its-over-old-media-comes-under-threat-from-new-media-in-ireland/

Scroll down to the “Shame on You” award:

“Shame on You” award

In 2008, an 18-year Romanian woman was abducted from the streets of Dublin, raped, shot dead and buried in a shallow grave, with the chief suspect being a Dublin criminal. Two weeks ago, her decomposed body was found. Her family who travelled by road and sea all the way from Romania came to bring the body home for burial. The family was interviewed by Gardai. The Sunday World had done a decent thing by organising a collection to help with repatriating the body, and there had been the usual Irish public response, and €2,550 was collected in days before the Department of Social Protection intervened and confirmed it would pay to repatriate the body. The family were said to have been “incredibly devastated and traumatised” when they had met Gardai and when the Sunday World met them, they were “visibly upset”. And then, and THEN, the Sunday World forces the family to come to its offices to accept a giant cheque for €2,550 and be photographed receiving the cheque. Here’s the picture.

Pic: http://namawinelake.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/swdirtbags.jpg

What kind of people work there that this was even considered nevermind carried out? All for just 2 and a half grand aswell, you know in their minds they wouldn't dream of doing this with anyone Irish but seeing as it was just a Roma its okay.

suicide_circus

Thargor wrote: »

I missed this if its been posted already but look what the scum in the Sunday World did with this story:

http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/02/12/youre-too-old-let-go-its-over-old-media-comes-under-threat-from-new-media-in-ireland/

Scroll down to the “Shame on You” award:

Pic: http://namawinelake.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/swdirtbags.jpg

What kind of people work there that this was even considered nevermind carried out? All for just 2 and a half grand aswell, you know in their minds they wouldn't dream of doing this with anyone Irish but seeing as it was just a Roma its okay.

Thats pretty disgusting

steddyeddy

Thargor wrote: »

I missed this if its been posted already but look what the scum in the Sunday World did with this story:

http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/02/12/youre-too-old-let-go-its-over-old-media-comes-under-threat-from-new-media-in-ireland/

Scroll down to the “Shame on You” award:

Pic: http://namawinelake.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/swdirtbags.jpg

What kind of people work there that this was even considered nevermind carried out? All for just 2 and a half grand aswell, you know in their minds they wouldn't dream of doing this with anyone Irish but seeing as it was just a Roma its okay.

Thats pretty scummy behaviour.

up for anything

LH Pathe wrote: »

there's no charming anyone on such a topic you softly fool. only divulging of possible avenues.. Prostitution is lowlifery to me; nevermind begging if you're merely up for annoying me off the back of someone else's coat tails, then go to bed already

Your google translate is fucked up!

EGAR

LH Pathe wrote: »

same old riposte to whats not to understand.. you should read between the lies. are you a member of the gay community I once offended?

I did not understand a word of your gibberish either, and I fail to see what the gay community has to do with the subject at hand. Unless you have an axe to grind in which case I presume you have a knack to offend people.

starviewadams

They've charged the animal accused of murdering Mariora Rostas,should never walk the streets again if he's convicted in my opinion:

http://www.tv3.ie/article.php?article_id=69866&locID=1.2&pagename=news

Grayson

pickarooney wrote: »

Who organises mass protests to tell murderers to stop killing people?
Does that kind of thing work, in general?

And on the other hand we have slut marches where women dress up in tarty clothes and say it's wrong to odle them. People protest outside croke park against "English" sports.

Lying eyes gets front pages years after a conviction.

A stupid model over dosing on coke becomes an issue.

But a young girl being brutally raped and murdered isn't news worthy.

Well done that garda stating this.

lividduck

Grayson wrote: »

And on the other hand we have slut marches where women dress up in tarty clothes and say it's wrong to odle them. People protest outside croke park against "English" sports.

Lying eyes gets front pages years after a conviction.

A stupid model over dosing on coke becomes an issue.

But a young girl being brutally raped and murdered isn't news worthy.

Well done that garda stating this.

WTF is a "Slut March"?

Jarren

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SlutWalk

Grayson

lividduck wrote: »

WTF is a "Slut March"?

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Ffemail%2Farticle-1385469%2FThousands-scantily-clad-women-march-London-SlutWalk-protest-reaches-UK.html&ei=xAyAT4PTHdHPsga6gbnWBA&usg=AFQjCNGB9KOjVdKuY-v92V1NYKk4z8-nKQ

That's a slut march. I can kinda see the point in them in countries like India where women are groped in the street. But in the western world a lawsuit is a better weapon.


BTW, there is a name for this kinda thing. It's called missing white woman syndrome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome

lividduck

Grayson wrote: »

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Ffemail%2Farticle-1385469%2FThousands-scantily-clad-women-march-London-SlutWalk-protest-reaches-UK.html&ei=xAyAT4PTHdHPsga6gbnWBA&usg=AFQjCNGB9KOjVdKuY-v92V1NYKk4z8-nKQ

That's a slut march. I can kinda see the point in them in countries like India where women are groped in the street. But in the western world a lawsuit is a better weapon.


BTW, there is a name for this kinda thing. It's called missing white woman syndrome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome

Those girls were right 100%
As for the missing white women thing well we have quite a few missing women in this country.

Millicent

Grayson wrote: »

But a young girl being brutally raped and murdered isn't news worthy.

Well done that garda stating this.

Eh, yes it is. I did my thesis on missing persons' reportage in Ireland. Marioara was one of the few who were reported on initially. Not to any great degree but far more than how other vulnerable people were reported on. It is shocking to realise how many cases received no coverage. Go to the Garda's missing persons' page and see how many of those people you recognise from news coverage.

Even besides the reporting when she disappeared, when it became apparent that the case was going to break and that Marioara died horribly, the Irish media covered it widely. It is unfair and incorrect to say that "a young girl being brutally raped and murdered isn't news worthy."

If you mean that the lowest common denominator red tops didn't cover it well you might be right (I don't read them) but any news organisation worth its salt had this story covered.

What would you have people do to show their support? There are many people who have been disgusted and horrified by this case and to just tar them all with the one brush is saddening.

mikemac1

http://www.garda.ie/MissingPersons/Default.aspx

A huge amount of those seem to be Chinese
What's going on?

Disappearing when their visa expires? Maybe to the UK
Or something more serious?

Dudess

Grayson wrote: »

pickarooney wrote: »

Who organises mass protests to tell murderers to stop killing people?
Does that kind of thing work, in general?

And on the other hand we have slut marches where women dress up in tarty clothes and say it's wrong to odle them. People protest outside croke park against "English" sports.

Lying eyes gets front pages years after a conviction.

A stupid model over dosing on coke becomes an issue.

But a young girl being brutally raped and murdered isn't news worthy.

Well done that garda stating this.

Just where is he getting the idea that people think it's not any big deal?

Millicent

mikemac1 wrote: »

http://www.garda.ie/MissingPersons/Default.aspx

A huge amount of those seem to be Chinese
What's going on?

Disappearing when their visa expires? Maybe to the UK
Or something more serious?

We had the odd situation (and this baffles me that it was never reported on) that children (those under 18) were put into hostels with no one watching them while seeking asylum and promptly--and regularly--disappeared.

There are a number of possibilities of why they have disappeared--sexual or economic trafficking, arranged marriages, flight into another country, etc.

Grayson

lividduck wrote: »

Those girls were right 100%

That's changed my mind 100%.

lividduck wrote: »

As for the missing white women thing well we have quite a few missing women in this country.

You're missing the point of it. The point is that yes, women of all background go missing. But it's only women of a certain race, ethnicity or social background that grab media attention.

This was a gypsy girl who was begging. So she didn't get the same media attention that an irish girl would have.

Millicent

Grayson wrote: »

That's changed my mind 100%.



You're missing the point of it. The point is that yes, women of all background go missing. But it's only women of a certain race, ethnicity or social background that grab media attention.

This was a gypsy girl who was begging. So she didn't get the same media attention that an irish girl would have.

What do you put that down to though, even if true? If it's racism, it's too simple an answer. There are myriad factors that impact on whether a case is picked up in the media.

Dudess

So is it the general public or the media that the garda is taking issue with? It's looking increasingly flimsy tbh.

Seomra Mushie

Dunno about anyone else but when this came to light a few months ago, my family and I, and whoever we discussed it with, were appalled at it. I feel incredibly sad when I see Roma kids out begging too. They will likely never escape from that life.

Grayson

Millicent wrote: »

Eh, yes it is. I did my thesis on missing persons' reportage in Ireland. Marioara was one of the few who were reported on initially. Not to any great degree but far more than how other vulnerable people were reported on. It is shocking to realise how many cases received no coverage. Go to the Garda's missing persons' page and see how many of those people you recognise from news coverage.

Even besides the reporting when she disappeared, when it became apparent that the case was going to break and that Marioara died horribly, the Irish media covered it widely. It is unfair and incorrect to say that "a young girl being brutally raped and murdered isn't news worthy."

If you mean that the lowest common denominator red tops didn't cover it well you might be right (I don't read them) but any news organisation worth its salt had this story covered.

What would you have people do to show their support? There are many people who have been disgusted and horrified by this case and to just tar them all with the one brush is saddening.

You've got far too many clarifications there.

The Irish media covered it widely. But...

The lowest common dominator red tops didn't cover it... How much readership does that account for? How many papers are you including in that. Are you pretty much saying the Irish Times and the indo covered it, because that doesn't mean the "Irish media" covered it widely. And define coverage. There's a difference between a few lines on page 8 and the front page.

And who said I was tarring everyone with the same brush? I'm not. People are outraged as can be seen in this thread. But that doesn't mean it got the outrage it deserved. So I fail to see where you're picking up that I said anything of the sort.

You're also failing to miss the point where I mention missing white girl syndrome. The point is that lots of girls go missing or are assaulted/killed. But only a few get media attention.

If we were even to take this board as an indication of public interest..

http://www.boards.ie/search/?subforums=1&q=Marioara

http://www.boards.ie/search/?q=katie+french

I'm not saying everyone on this board doesn't care. But it is an indication of public and media interest. Obviously no-one is expected to start a thread on something they've never heard of. So if it's not being reported it's not going to be discussed here as much.

Katy French however... That's still in the news and so it's still being discussed.

Grayson

Millicent wrote: »

What do you put that down to though, even if true? If it's racism, it's too simple an answer. There are myriad factors that impact on whether a case is picked up in the media.

You managed to quote a post where I said that
"But it's only women of a certain race, ethnicity or social background that grab media attention"

And then reply with

If it's racism, it's too simple an answer

Did you read my post.

Millicent

Grayson wrote: »

You managed to quote a post where I said that
"But it's only women of a certain race, ethnicity or social background that grab media attention"

And then reply with



Did you read my post.

Yes, I'm trying to engage you in a conversation about it. I'm not sure why you sound annoyed with me. My point was that the "racism" label is too simple. I'm well aware of the "white women/little girls" issue in news reporting--as I mentioned, I did my thesis on it. What I was trying to say to you was that was too simplistic a view and didn't count other factors at play here.

Kaner2004

howsyourtusk wrote: »

And that is evidence in itself of the ****ed up society we live in. That we can just de-humanise a whole race of people.

Would you be nice enough to invite a family of poor homeless Roma into your home to look after it while you are away on holidays? Just to do someting kind for them.

No?

Then you sir are a racist and please stop being my conscience for me.

Millicent

Grayson wrote: »

You've got far too many clarifications there.

The Irish media covered it widely. But...

The lowest common dominator red tops didn't cover it... How much readership does that account for? How many papers are you including in that. Are you pretty much saying the Irish Times and the indo covered it, because that doesn't mean the "Irish media" covered it widely. And define coverage. There's a difference between a few lines on page 8 and the front page.

And who said I was tarring everyone with the same brush? I'm not. People are outraged as can be seen in this thread. But that doesn't mean it got the outrage it deserved. So I fail to see where you're picking up that I said anything of the sort.

You're also failing to miss the point where I mention missing white girl syndrome. The point is that lots of girls go missing or are assaulted/killed. But only a few get media attention.

If we were even to take this board as an indication of public interest..

http://www.boards.ie/search/?subforums=1&q=Marioara

http://www.boards.ie/search/?q=katie+french

I'm not saying everyone on this board doesn't care. But it is an indication of public and media interest. Obviously no-one is expected to start a thread on something they've never heard of. So if it's not being reported it's not going to be discussed here as much.

Katy French however... That's still in the news and so it's still being discussed.

There are white girls who go missing here who get little to no media attention. To be honest, the number of missing people cases in Ireland is scary and those who go missing come from all races, genders and ages. There is an element of "little white girls" at play (but nowhere in the same way as in the U.S. for example) but there are other things at play--lack of family and friends to push for coverage, secrecy in communities, lack of caring from family or friends, a reason known to the Gardaí why someone is missing (taken flight/moved elsewhere etc.) which can't be revealed to the media as there is no concrete evidence etc. etc.

There may be a racial element at play in some cases but the media reaction to Marioara's discovery was fairly universally united in disgust. And I saw coverage across the Irish Times, the Independent, the Examiner, Breaking News, RTÉ and TV3. As I said, I don't read the red tops so can't speak to their coverage but it seems (at least from this thread) that the Sun did some reporting on it too, even if it was distasteful.

ETA: Also, how do I have too many clarifications in my post? The issue isn't (and please excuse the pun) black and white--a lot of it falls within several shades of grey and clarifications are required.

Millicent

Kaner2004 wrote: »

Would you be nice enough to invite a family of poor homeless Roma into your home to look after it while you are away on holidays? Just to do someting kind for them.

No?

Then you sir are a racist and please stop being my conscience for me.

Who invites a family of ANYONE they don't know in to mind their house for a week while they're away? What a ridiculous post.

Dudess

Yeah, person goes missing - up to their family to create awareness, particularly if they're a member of an already disenfranchised community.

And in fairness, people look to news outlets to provide information - seems unfair to object to people not discussing something they don't know about because it was not covered by their publication of choice.
Is Katy French still being discussed btw?

Millicent

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah, person goes missing - up to their family to create awareness, particularly if they're a member of an already disenfranchised community.

Thank you! This is partly my point. Anyone whose family aren't in the picture or who don't trust the Gardaí/media can be very sadly forgotten from media coverage.

Grayson

Millicent wrote: »

There are white girls who go missing here who get little to no media attention. To be honest, the number of missing people cases in Ireland is scary and those who go missing come from all races, genders and ages. There is an element of "little white girls" at play (but nowhere in the same way as in the U.S. for example) but there are other things at play--lack of family and friends to push for coverage, secrecy in communities, lack of caring from family or friends, a reason known to the Gardaí why someone is missing (taken flight/moved elsewhere etc.) which can't be revealed to the media as there is no concrete evidence etc. etc.

There may be a racial element at play in some cases but the media reaction to Marioara's discovery was fairly universally united in disgust. And I saw coverage across the Irish Times, the Independent, the Examiner, Breaking News, RTÉ and TV3. As I said, I don't read the red tops so can't speak to their coverage but it seems (at least from this thread) that the Sun did some reporting on it too, even if it was distasteful.

ETA: Also, how do I have too many clarifications in my post? The issue isn't (and please excuse the pun) black and white--a lot of it falls within several shades of grey and clarifications are required.

By the clarifications i mean you can't state it was widely reported and start making exceptions. Excluding the red tops probably excludes half the papers sold in the country. And coverage in a paper doesn't indicate importance. It could be 10 lines on page 10.

Millicent

Grayson wrote: »

By the clarifications i mean you can't state it was widely reported and start making exceptions. Excluding the red tops probably excludes half the papers sold in the country. And coverage in a paper doesn't indicate importance. It could be 10 lines on page 10.

You realise ten lines is more than the majority of missing persons' cases get in Ireland? And there was massive coverage on the finding of her body. Give it time and watch the papers for the trial of the man arrested--I'd put money on it that it will get large coverage, especially in the red tops who will be vying for his blood and calling him an "animal".