What's the most frustrating thing about being atheist?

nozzferrahhtoo

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't find anything frustrating about being atheist.

It rarely happens, but once in a while I encounter something spiritual or religious that appeals to me. Here's a prayer I saw many years ago that I rather like:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

Even in myths there's occasionally a nugget of truth to be found.

True, but the Bene Gesserit in "Dune" do it much better than that prayer above. Some of their mantras are just better written yet require no appeals to imaginary gods :-)

coffee_cake

i must not fear. fear is the mind-killer...

Mark Hamill

Deleted User wrote: »

And as we all know, the distance and anonymity provided by the internet allows people to say things from behind a keyboard and screen that only complete social misfits would say to someone in person.

Ironic, coming from someone on an internet forum with an anonymous username.

Duggys Housemate

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

True, but the Bene Gesserit in "Dune" do it much better than that prayer above. Some of their mantras are just better written yet require no appeals to imaginary gods :-)

I'd say the whole Dune religion thing was mostly based on Earth religions in the first place , and it's philosophy too. As for whether a nerd-book has better written prayers, or philosophy than Earth's established religions, or philosophy - I doubt it.

Galvasean

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

I'd say the whole Dune religion thing was mostly based on Earth religions in the first place , and it's philosophy too. As for whether a nerd-book has better written prayers, or philosophy than Earth's established religions, or philosophy - I doubt it.

Ah it wouldn't be hard to be honest.Consider it a 'best of' collection.

nozzferrahhtoo

Ah welcome back to the thread. Thought you had legged it after my last reply. Yes indeed much of that book was written taking elements of current Earth Society and representing them in fiction. The "spice" for example allowed for many parallels to oil. The different groups of people in the book represented different groups in our reality... religious groups and other groups too. Some other groups in the book were extreme caricatures of academia and science for example.

Dades

I'm sorry, did someone call a Dune a *nerd book*?

:cool:

Sofaspud

The fact that religious people act offended when I say anything negative about religion, or make little jokes about god not existing (never in a way that's disrespectful to the believers), and they act like I'm personally calling them an idiot.
Meanwhile I manage to not find it offensive when they mention their beliefs, and don't try to convert me. Someone who claims to believe and doesn't try to convert others (especially friends) I think is either not a believer, or is a horrible person. If I truly believed that anyone who didn't believe was going to be tortured for all eternity, I'd definitely try to get them in on the good stuff. If I believed, and sat back in the knowledge that my friends would burn unless I helped them, that would make me a prick.

Doc_Savage

Sofaspud wrote: »

The fact that religious people act offended when I say anything negative about religion, or make little jokes about god not existing (never in a way that's disrespectful to the believers), and they act like I'm personally calling them an idiot.
Meanwhile I manage to not find it offensive when they mention their beliefs, and don't try to convert me. Someone who claims to believe and doesn't try to convert others (especially friends) I think is either not a believer, or is a horrible person. If I truly believed that anyone who didn't believe was going to be tortured for all eternity, I'd definitely try to get them in on the good stuff. If I believed, and sat back in the knowledge that my friends would burn unless I helped them, that would make me a prick.

The only problem with this line of thought is that the Irish demographic is predominantly RCC, and odd's on most of the people you meet consider themselves and all others around them to be RCC too... they wouldn't need to convert them!
Think about the Mormons and Jehovah's witness' that you meet and then you'll realize that when someone is in a small minority like them, all they see around them are people to be saved and that's all they try to do, post mortem baptisms, door to door conversions et al.

Galvasean

Dades wrote: »

I'm sorry, did someone call a Dune a *nerd book*?

:cool:

Yes

Hotblack Desiato

Doc_Savage wrote: »

The only problem with this line of thought is that the Irish demographic is predominantly RCC, and odd's on most of the people you meet consider themselves and all others around them to be RCC too... they wouldn't need to convert them!

Another possibility is that most nominally RCC people in Ireland don't take it seriously as long as they don't offend their parents and are seen to go along with the flow.


and in most cases they wouldn't have a clue about the basic tenets of their faith so how could they convert someone?

and if they tried they might meet a 'Prod' who might try to convert them!!

Sofaspud

ninja900 wrote: »

Doc_Savage wrote: »

The only problem with this line of thought is that the Irish demographic is predominantly RCC, and odd's on most of the people you meet consider themselves and all others around them to be RCC too... they wouldn't need to convert them!

Another possibility is that most nominally RCC people in Ireland don't take it seriously as long as they don't offend their parents and are seen to go along with the flow.


and in most cases they wouldn't have a clue about the basic tenets of their faith so how could they convert someone?

and if they tried they might meet a 'Prod' who might try to convert them!!

I think this is the more likely option. When I wrote the post I was thinking specifically about 2 people I met since I moved to Cardiff 6 months ago. 1 ex-housemate and one friend from uni, both of whom are catholic, go to church every week and such. I've had (mainly respectful) chats with both about religion, and Whenever i mentioned specific parts from the bible, neither had a clue what I was talking about.
With them I think it's mainly a cultural thing, as one is from Belfast and the other is Indian so their parents are probably devout and raised them to follow blindly without knowing fully what they were following.

CL7

Being told that I'm going through a phase. I'm 32 this year.

swampgas

It's kinda frustrating watching clever, kind people who can see that religion must be bogus, who can follow all the arguments in favour of atheism, shy way from that final deductive step because they don't want to deal with the consequences.

As Ian Hislop put it, he simply can't make himself "make that final leap of unfaith".

Sonics2k

Galvasean wrote: »

Yes

I'm also going to say openly I found it be quite over-rated and dull.

Mark Hamill

Dr. Strange wrote: »

Being told that I'm going through a phase. I'm 32 this year.

Its weird, but I've never actually encountered this patronising BS in real life. However, for the first time, two (supposedly atheist) posters have made this point in this very thread: sasser and Deleted User.

coffee_cake

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Its weird, but I've never actually encountered this patronising BS in real life. However, for the first time, two (supposedly atheist) posters have made this point in this very thread: sasser and Deleted User.

some family members think i am atheist, and have said "oh but i know you'll come back to the church some day". close enough i think

Galvasean

Dr. Strange wrote: »

Being told that I'm going through a phase. I'm 32 this year.

It's a long phase...

swampgas

swampgas wrote: »

As Ian Hislop put it, he simply can't make himself "make that final leap of unfaith".

It's unfortunate, but I suspect that for many people there is some kind of mental block about "officially" giving up the ghost on faith (so to speak).

Human children are hard-wired to listen to their parents and take what they say as, for want of a better term, gospel. That's a tough bit of evolutionary biology to overcome, and not everyone can do it.

Dr. Strange

Dr. Strange wrote: »

Being told that I'm going through a phase. I'm 32 this year.

Wait till you hit my age, and maybe they'll have given up by then.

I've never had that said to me, although I daresay some people have thought it.

Gbear

Deleted User wrote: »

It's unfortunate, but I suspect that for many people there is some kind of mental block about "officially" giving up the ghost on faith (so to speak).

Not to mention that for some "atheism" is seen as a dirty word.

Hokuto

My atheism has to be kept in the closet because of intolerant relatives who won't hesitate about lecturing to me about the pleasures of 'Hell' in the hereafter. Atheism is not recognised in my culture just like homosexuality is.

Solair

Never really found it a problem.

I went to a nominally catholic school, the main religion there was rugby. I don't remember anything ever particularly catholic about the place but we did have strange chanting and flag waving rugby rallies quite frequently ...

Most of my family are non religious, so I suppose that makes life a lot easier. In fact, in our family you'd be more likely to get funny looks if you were overtly religious. My granny always referred sneeringly to pushy, in your face, religious neighbours as 'that awl holy joe" etc etc

Worst ever though was when a neighbour of ours in Dublin in the early 90s basically kidnapped a friend of ours non baptised kids and had them baptised at a local convent to "save their souls"...they're still atheists and their souls are still fine !!

The old lady who did that was a bit whacko to put it mildly. She'd always make a point of giving us religious gifts at Xmas when we were passing her house eg cribs, religious books aimed at kids, bibles ask us if we missed making our confirmations etc etc

Only bad educational experience was when I had a returned missionary priest as a religion teacher in a primary school in Dublin who kept threatening me when I was about 10 / 11. He'd ask what the gospel was at mass. I'd say I didn't go and he'd go off on a rant about how my parents were irresponsible and how I could be expelled and should be taken into care!

Told my parents who extracted a grovelling apology from him!

sasser

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Its weird, but I've never actually encountered this patronising BS in real life. However, for the first time, two (supposedly atheist) posters have made this point in this very thread: sasser and Deleted User.

Where did I make that point?? think you've mixed me up with someone else, can you edit your post please

Duggys Housemate

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Its weird, but I've never actually encountered this patronising BS in real life. However, for the first time, two (supposedly atheist) posters have made this point in this very thread: sasser and Deleted User.

What you were told there, by both posters, is not that your atheism is a problem and an age thing ( i.e. childish), but your childish use of language is - imaginary friend, theists are morons etc.. You want a world where you can sneer at anybody, but nobody can sneer at you. Or, even not sneer, but complain about your sneering.

There is no such world, and i am surprised that it took the internet to point this out to you.

robindch

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

What you were told there, by both posters, is not that your atheism is a problem and an age thing ( i.e. childish), but your childish use of language is - imaginary friend, theists are morons etc..

Sasser's and Ulysses' posts suggest otherwise:

Deleted User wrote: »

It is an age thing, possibly a gender thing to some extent, and with a bit of the "Online Disinhibition Effect" thrown in for good measure.

sasser wrote: »

I wonder is it an age thing, I found I have gotten more tolerant and respectful of others as I get older.

Regardless of where it comes from, can everybody try to raise their tone? A lot would be good, but let's try start with just a bit.

darealtulip

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

What you were told there, by both posters, is not that your atheism is a problem and an age thing ( i.e. childish), but your childish use of language is - imaginary friend, theists are morons etc.. You want a world where you can sneer at anybody, but nobody can sneer at you. Or, even not sneer, but complain about your sneering.

There is no such world, and i am surprised that it took the internet to point this out to you.

Well recently the pope called atheists not fully human, so did a few clergy here in Ireland. It is therefore not strange that we simplify the language. It seems that we are misunderstood. Imaginary friend is not in this category though.

This is simply a statement due to the fact that there is no proof for any god to exist and worse that we are constantly told by theists that there can be no evidence. Therefore it is an imaginary friend until it can be proven.

Duggys Housemate

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

What you were told there, by both posters, is not that your atheism is a problem and an age thing ( i.e. childish), but your childish use of language is - imaginary friend, theists are morons etc.. You want a world where you can sneer at anybody, but nobody can sneer at you. Or, even not sneer, but complain about your sneering.

In a nutshell, that's correct.

robindch wrote: »

Sasser's and Ulysses' posts suggest otherwise....

I can't speak for sasser, but my post suggests exactly what Duggys Housemate said.

darealtulip wrote: »

Well recently the pope called atheists not fully human, so did a few clergy here in Ireland.

I don't think we should lower ourselves to the level of the people on the other side of the argument.

Galvasean

Hokuto wrote: »

My atheism has to be kept in the closet because of intolerant relatives who won't hesitate about lecturing to me about the pleasures of 'Hell' in the hereafter. Atheism is not recognised in my culture just like homosexuality is.

If I may ask, what culture do you refer to? feel free to not answer if you aren't comfortable divulging of course.

Mark Hamill

sasser wrote: »

Where did I make that point?? think you've mixed me up with someone else, can you edit your post please

You were responding to Nyan Cats post, which was in response to me, were you not?