6 years jail for garlic scam

eth0

Sindri wrote: »

Import duty should be lower. Simple as.

There is no fcuking need to go to China for fooking garlic. you can grow it here


Import duty should be 500%

gurramok

Which is of utmost public importance? You choose.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0216/ogormanm.html

A former champion boxer has been sentenced to five years in prison for punching and killing a man.
Jonathan Smith, 19, from Windtown Crescent in Navan, Co Meath, pleaded guilty at Trim Circuit Criminal Court to the manslaughter of Martin O'Gorman at Academy Street in Navan on 21 June 2010

Or 6 years for tax evasion on garlic imports?

minidazzler

PCPhoto wrote: »

The law is there for a reason !!

Let's be fair, that's not true for all laws, and besides, the law should be just. 6 year sentence for importing something legal but doing it to avoid paying a duty which is far too much?

I'd like to know why it's such a high duty?

newmug

Another example of how ludicrous the Irish legal system is.

forfuxsake

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

So he knowingly broke the law and defrauded the state and people think its a harsh treatment , in my opinion its the same as someone defrauding welfare or revenue by outright lying to them.

True but weren't two people jailed for three months for defrauding the welfare system last week.

TBH I think one was too harsh and one was too soft, I would have given them both three years, suspending the last two if they agreed to pay everything back with interest and huge fines.

benway

Here, if he was some guy who'd managed to scam €160k off the social, ye'd be looking for the "scumbag's" head on a silver platter. But €1.6m for an oootraprenooor and daycent oul' schkin and not a bother.

Some of you are making the mistake of holding sentences for different offenses by the same standard, and judging without knowing the facts of the cases you're talking about as well, but that's pretty much standard round here.

My name is URL

gurramok wrote: »

Which is of utmost public importance? You choose.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0216/ogormanm.html

A former champion boxer has been sentenced to five years in prison for punching and killing a man.
Jonathan Smith, 19, from Windtown Crescent in Navan, Co Meath, pleaded guilty at Trim Circuit Criminal Court to the manslaughter of Martin O'Gorman at Academy Street in Navan on 21 June 2010

Or 6 years for tax evasion on garlic imports?

This x 1000

You could mention hundreds of similar examples too. It really shows what is more important to those that we employ to provide us with the services that ensure that our society is a safe one to live in.

6 years to lock a man up for evading that amount of tax, at a massive cost to us; just to give everyone else the message. While killers and child abusers walk free; unreformed and a lot earlier.

It's a joke, but the worst thing is that many don't see it as a problem.

spockety

benway wrote: »

Here, if he was some guy who'd managed to scam €160k off the social, ye'd be looking for the "scumbag's" head on a silver platter. But €1.6m for an oootraprenooor and daycent oul' schkin and not a bother.

Some of you are making the mistake of holding sentences for different offenses by the same standard, and judging without knowing the facts of the cases you're talking about as well, but that's pretty much standard round here.

He co operated fully, was paying everything owed back, pleaded guilty, has no priors, a list of character witnesses as long as your leg etc. they are the facts. It's mental.

And to add, the purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, not set examples. How is a custodial sentence going to help here? Do you think if he got a fine he is likely to re offend? My hole.

kowloon

Going to start labelling my explosives as garlic so.

later12

Garlic may be petty, but in fairness a €1.6 million tax evasion bill is not.

Note that the tax in question is not a personal cost of doing business in the strict sense. These distributers are merely tax collectors for the government, in a similar way to Tesco and Dunnes acting as tax collectors for Vat.

The cost of import duty is passed on to merchants and thereafter, effectively, to the consumer as a matter of course. This man simply decided, for whatever reasons, that he wasn't going to pay the state.

He deserves punishment in his own right. The magnitude of his guilt is not to be determined relative to other crimes irrelevant to this case.

If other crimes are penalised in a way that is perceived to be disproportionately insufficient, that's an issue for those cases. And if the penalty in this case is perceived to be too onerous, then that is a matter for the court taking this and similar cases into account.

But the guilt or otherwise of the likes of Sean FitzPatrick or Bertie Ahern or David Drumm do not detract from the guilt of this individual for tax evasion.

gurramok

spockety wrote: »

He co operated fully, was paying everything owed back, pleaded guilty, has no priors, a list of character witnesses as long as your leg etc. they are the facts. It's mental.

And to add, the purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, not set examples. How is a custodial sentence going to help here? Do you think if he got a fine he is likely to re offend? My hole.

And he worked :pac:

wil

compare and contrast 6 years suspended for supply of heroin.

Banana republic, septic isle,

Glad to see the place again, its a pity nothings changed:(

gurramok

later12 wrote: »

Garlic may be petty, but in fairness a €1.6 million tax evasion bill is not.

Money as in tax evasion takes the high ground over morality(killing a person), nice to see you have the welfare of society in your mind.

benway

spockety wrote: »

He co operated fully, was paying everything owed back, pleaded guilty, has no priors, a list of character witnesses as long as your leg etc. they are the facts. It's mental.

And in the current fiscal climate, gross tax fraud is a particularly detrimental offence. Message sent, if it can happen to "the head of Ireland's largest fruit and vegetable producers", it can happen to anyone. Would pretty much guarantee it'll be cut down to two years suspended on appeal. What other people are getting for other crimes is utterly irrelevant.

Tusky

Quote:
Originally Posted by CB19Kevo View Post
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0309/begleyp.html

''The head of Ireland's largest fruit and vegetable producers has been jailed for six years for a €1.6m scam involving the importation of garlic.
Paul Begley, 46, avoided paying customs duty on over 1,000 tonnes of garlic from China by having them labelled as apples.
Dublin Circuit Criminal Court heard the import duty on garlic is "inexplicably" high and can be up to 232%.
In contrast, onions have an import duty of 9%.
The maximum sentence for the offence is five years in prison or a fine of three times the value of the goods.
Judge Martin Nolan imposed the maximum term on one count and one year on another count.''

IM0 wrote: »

Maximum sentence is five years per count. He was up on more than one count. He got a five year sentence and a one year sentence to be served consecutively (one after the other).

gerryo777

later12 wrote: »

But the guilt or otherwise of the likes of Sean FitzPatrick or Bertie Ahern or David Drumm do not detract from the guilt of this individual for tax evasion.

But you'll never see any of the above in jail. Not a chance.

Over 3 years later and Drumm is still on the run in America, thumbing his nose at the Irish people.

amacachi

How long do people generally get for importing the dodgy fags?


Also if something is unbelievably easy to grow here then it's a reason to not have a big import duty. If it's really, really easy and yet people want to be paid more than someone who has to get it transported halfway around the world then they can take a hit on their margins.

johnwalters

PCPhoto wrote: »

he got a strong sentence which will more than likely be reduced on appeal ...but it will deter others from attempting to defraud the revenue.

Revenue are spending hundreds of thousands ...maybe more ...on keeping a close eye on imports and gaining the correct amount of money from all imports - the government is trying to squeeze every penny out of people and those that try to cheat the system should get a similar sentence ...our courts are too soft as far as I'm concerned we need strong deterrents to try stop people breaking the law.

The law is there for a reason !!

what a loser. I suppose your some stale little civil servant

spockety

benway wrote: »

And in the current fiscal climate, gross tax fraud is a particularly detrimental offence. Message sent, if it can happen to "the head of Ireland's largest fruit and vegetable producers", it can happen to anyone. Would pretty much guarantee it'll be cut down to two years suspended on appeal. What other people are getting for other crimes is utterly irrelevant.

I never said anything about other people or other crimes, show me where I did?

cock robin

Prison is not a place for rehabilitation or anything like it, it is a place of detention for those that transgress. This greedy fcuk has a very successful business a nice standard of living and still had to rob the state. Call me old fashioned but the law is the law. I know all about the bankers and how none of them have been charged to date, that is a seperate issue. He co-operated when he was charged. This so called pillar of the community concocted a scheme to defraud the state (us) at a time when others would give their right arm for his lavish lifestyle. So fcuk him.

johnwalters

benway wrote: »

Here, if he was some guy who'd managed to scam €160k off the social, ye'd be looking for the "scumbag's" head on a silver platter. But €1.6m for an oootraprenooor and daycent oul' schkin and not a bother.

Some of you are making the mistake of holding sentences for different offenses by the same standard, and judging without knowing the facts of the cases you're talking about as well, but that's pretty much standard round here.

yeh because an entrepeneur creates jobs and wealth. Th e person on the dole is a parasite

spockety

cock robin wrote: »

Prison is not a place for rehabilitation or anything like it, it is a place of detention for those that transgress. This greedy fcuk has a very successful business a nice standard of living and still had to rob the state. Call me old fashioned but the law is the law. I know all about the bankers and how none of them have been charged to date, that is a seperate issue. He co-operated when he was charged. This so called pillar of the community concocted a scheme to defraud the state (us) at a time when others would give their right arm for his lavish lifestyle. So fcuk him.

So take an eye for an eye. Fine him into bankruptcy, strike him off as a director, and take him for everything he owns. But 6 years in prison?

keeva1995

now would be a good time to start growing garlic.any body know how.

blatantrereg

keeva1995 wrote: »

now would be a good time to start growing garlic.any body know how.

As far as I remember this is what I did:
Put a garlic clove in some soil so that the tip is at surface level.
Watch the stalk grow quickly. Leave it there until the stalk falls over.
There will now be a full bulb where the clove was.
Easy. No fertiliser or pesticides needed here it grows like a weed. Grows much better than in China where they use excessive fertiliser and pesticides to compensate.

benway

@spockety There's more than you posting on this thread.

General deterrence is a legitimate aim in sentencing in this country, plus the offences must surely be at the very top end of the scale. The case law sets out the factors to be taken into consideration:

i) the gravity of the offences;
ii) the circumstances in which these offences were carried out;
iii) the nature of the offences;
iv) the continuing duration of their commission;
v) the role played by the accused in them;
vi) The accused's personal circumstances;
vii) the circumstances of the company;
viii) any aggravating or mitigating factor; and
ix) the principles of proportionality and totality.

Seems that it's an aggravating factor if the offense was one of pure greed, where the company is profitable and stable.

johnwalters wrote: »

yeh because an entrepeneur creates jobs and wealth. Th e person on the dole is a parasite

Thanks for proving my point.

cock robin

spockety wrote: »

So take an eye for an eye. Fine him into bankruptcy, strike him off as a director, and take him for everything he owns. But 6 years in prison?

We both know that he will never do six years in prison or anything like it, the sentence reflects the seriousness of the crime and was imposed to act as a deterrent to other like minded "businessmen" . Mr Begley will be behind the wheel of his merc before summer is out. he will still be able to go about his business as before only this time he might consider the competition who act in a lawfull manner. I for one think we should all boycott his fruit and veg and any company that currently purchases from Beg bros should do like wise then the fcuker might learn something.

spockety

cock robin wrote: »

We both know that he will never do six years in prison or anything like it, the sentence reflects the seriousness of the crime and was imposed to act as a deterrent to other like minded "businessmen" . Mr Begley will be behind the wheel of his merc before summer is out. he will still be able to go about his business as before only this time he might consider the competition who act in a lawfull manner. I for one think we should all boycott his fruit and veg and any company that currently purchases from Beg bros should do like wise then the fcuker might learn something.

And so too might he 100+ people who work for them?

GombeanMan

Chinese garlic is awful. Too harsh. And the cloves are too small and nimble.

dotsman

Not defending the guy in any way. Tax evasion is a serious crime. However, it was non-violent, and a monetary punishment is probably just as effective (and financially better for the taxpayer).

Compared to this scum-of-the-earth who gets another free pass by our great judges...

I mean, in fairness, at some stage you just have to say "this fcuker is always going to be a drain on society" and just throw away the key. And for me, he crossed that line long before his 60th conviction (and the son of a bithc isn't even on the planet 20 years).

Baneblade

he defrauded the state of €1.6m over 4 years

that does not happen by accident and should carry prison sentance
i also think its hypocritical to refer to him as "an asset to the country"