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6 years jail for garlic scam

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    #542
    gowley
    Registered Users Posts: 629 ✭✭✭gowley


    i agree he did wrong but when u have a woman who killed a man by running him over in his car and a so called father who raped his daughter over a prolonged period both getting 6 years this week the law is an ass. anyone who says his crime deserves the same as the above 2 is sick.


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    #543
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,297 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    gozunda wrote: »
    gurramok - if you take a look at this and the Socialist thread ongoing atm you will see more or less the same suspect self proclaimed socialists (sps's) banging on about 'doing' the rich capitalist b*st*rds by taxing them into oblivion to right all the wrongs as defined by socialist theory OR where the rich are caught committing a crime, that harder sentencing be passed in their case than that given to poor miscreants that are really are just misunderstood...

    This and the other thread both show a distinct violent socio / economic class hatred directed at anybody preceived as better off than themselves and anyone who dares disagree with them.

    The use of Logic and reasoning does not appear to have any noticeable effect on this group tbh

    First time I've been accused of being a socialist here.
    Though I was a Thatcherite rightwing clown in another thread not so long ago.

    The richest businessman I ever met through work (boss man of one of our major dairies) was one of the most vehement anti-tax dodging advocates I ever met, he'd have thought 6 years was light for this.


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    #544
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    cock robin wrote: »
    It's almost as insane as a wealthy business man with more than enough money defrauding €1.6m just in case he went short.

    At 232%?? I'd call that rate lunacy and very tempting to avoid as it's a rip-off, wealthy or not. You seem to imply that he deserves this more than most people due to being a "business man", which is strange.


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    #545
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    nm wrote: »
    At 232%?? I'd call that rate lunacy and very tempting to avoid as it's a rip-off, wealthy or not. You seem to imply that he deserves this more than most people due to being a "business man", which is strange.

    Agreed the real crimnals here were the revenue. 232% is a stupid amount of tax to pay. As far as the reports go he was paying back revenue. So we the taxpayer are paying further for his incarceration.


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    #546
    cock robin
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭cock robin


    nm wrote: »
    At 232%?? I'd call that rate lunacy and very tempting to avoid as it's a rip-off, wealthy or not. You seem to imply that he deserves this more than most people due to being a "business man", which is strange.

    No I am suggesting that as a criminal found guilty of a crime that he recieve the exact same traetment as any other criminal. His wealth is of no consequence. The VAT rate applies only to Chinese garlic and is an EU tarrif, he could have imported garlic from elsewhere and commited no offence. However greed got in the way.


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    #547
    cock robin
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭cock robin


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Agreed the real crimnals here were the revenue. 232% is a stupid amount of tax to pay. As far as the reports go he was paying back revenue. So we the taxpayer are paying further for his incarceration.

    Yeah! the revenue commisioners are criminals thats right. FFS he was repaying the money after he was caught, small thanks to him. He should have conducted his affairs in an honest fashion to begin with as must we all. He was'nt giving the garlic away. He sold it and he made a profit from his crime for four years. We the taxpayer were conned by this crook and we the taxpayer have sentenced him to prison and we the taxpayer did not ask him to break the law. He the tax-evader took that decision and he the tax-evader got caught.


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    #548
    cock robin
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭cock robin


    bamboozle wrote: »
    all i'd say on this is that i'd rather the streets be full of 'garlic custom evaders' than scum bag's who try to run down 'fellas' in there car while off their bean on drink and drugs.

    Missing the point, country full of tax dodgers equals no money for the policing of these streets you refer to. Garlic custom evasion ? no I think you mean convicted tax offender.


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    #549
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    Irish businesspeople are being investigated left, right and center by the Revenue and quite a few are being brought before courts. Most of these are relatively small businesses who give a hell of a lot more to the economy than they have taken or are being investigated for. As someone said earlier, they are net contributors to the economy.

    All the while, the 'businesspeople' and politicians who have annihilated this country economically go unpunished.

    At this time, the government need to be creating incentives for incumbent businesses to flourish. Not taxing the life out of them or throwing their owners in jail. I'm not saying that Irish businesses shouldn't pay their taxes, I'm saying that their taxes should be reasonable enough to incentivise them to grow and, in turn, help the economy grow. A 232% import duty is an utter insanity.

    Why are the government squeezing Irish businesses and trying to attract large multinationals to these shores? Why do our government rob us and treat us with such utter contempt? Who knows. Maybe because the majority of us practically apologise for it.

    It would have offended me previously but I can see where the term 'Thick Paddies' came from.


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    #550
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    cock robin wrote: »
    Missing the point, country full of tax dodgers equals no money for the policing of these streets you refer to.

    What the hell are you on about? There are no Gardai on the streets! I drove through town the other day and saw about a dozen clampers and not a single Garda. But hey, there's revenue to be generated from those illegally parked cars. :rolleyes:


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    #551
    cock robin
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭cock robin


    The kind of business people we need are honest ones. Not those that while employing people pick and choose what ever taxes they wish to pay and at the same time tax their employees on behalf of revenue at source. Just becuase you did not see any guards and yet managed to see a clampers convention is a statement posted here to back up your claim. However I gurantee that there were guards. I would imagine you did'nt see dark matter or doctors or teachers or whatever but they were around.


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    #552
    cock robin
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭cock robin


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    Irish businesspeople are being investigated left, right and center by the Revenue and quite a few are being brought before courts. Most of these are relatively small businesses who give a hell of a lot more to the economy than they have taken :eek:
    but I can see where the term 'Thick Paddies' came from.


    So can I :rolleyes:


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    #553
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    cock robin wrote: »
    The kind of business people we need are honest ones. Not those that while employing people pick and choose what ever txaes they wish to pay and at the same time tax their employees at source.

    Businesspeople don't tax their employees at source, the Revenue do. Yes we need honest businesspeople. We also need an honest and competent government - which we currently do not have. Far from it.
    cock robin wrote: »
    Just becuase you didi not see any guards and yet managed to see a clampers convention is a statement posted here to back up your claim.

    No, it's just a fact.
    cock robin wrote: »
    However I gurantee that there were guards.

    There weren't.
    cock robin wrote: »
    I would imagine you did'nt see dark matter or doctors or teachers or whatever but they were around.

    Last time I saw Gardaí on the street, they weren't subtle. Hi-vis jackets tend to draw the attention. The only ones I saw in a 20 minute crawl through Dublin city were ones worn by clampers.


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    #554
    cock robin
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭cock robin


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    What the hell are you on about? There are no Gardai on the streets! I drove through town the other day and saw about a dozen clampers and not a single Garda. But hey, there's revenue to be generated from those illegally parked cars. :rolleyes:

    Sure we would'nt need the clampers if tax evaders paid their fair share. What the hell am I on about ? I don't expect you to understand so I will simplify. Criminals caught offending get tried and sentenced. Is that easier for you.


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    #555
    cock robin
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭cock robin


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    Businesspeople don't tax their employees at source, the Revenue do. Yes we need honest businesspeople. We also need an honest and competent government - which we currently do not have. Far from it.



    No, it's just a fact.



    There weren't.



    Last time I saw Gardaí on the street, they weren't subtle. Hi-vis jackets tend to draw the attention. The only ones I saw in a 20 minute crawl through Dublin city were ones worn by clampers.

    I give up, from rapists to murderers and child molesters and now we are onto clampers. We have drifted so far off topic it ain't funny. I hope Begleys appeal goes well for him but I still hold the view that all criminals regardless of their crime should be treated the same.


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    #556
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    cock robin wrote: »
    I will simplify. Criminals caught offending get tried and sentenced.

    Do they, yeah? You obviously haven't been paying too much attention to what's been going on in this country over the last few years.


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    #557
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    mconigol wrote: »
    Heres a dentist who just seteled a 1.7million euro tax bill...as well as a bunch of other people
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0313/revenue-business.html

    I suppose all these people need to be locked away too???

    you should at least receive a hefty fine. The difference here is that he does not threaten a whole trade as Begley did with European garlic. imagine you earn your living with european garlic and some dude is offering it from china at a much cheaper rate.


    I wonder about the ethics of some people. reading through the letters in the times there is widespread support for begley yet these same people whinge that the country is in tatters. our health system could have done with the extra cash injection financed by Begleys taxes as well as the noble dentist above.


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    #558
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    nm wrote: »
    At 232%?? I'd call that rate lunacy and very tempting to avoid as it's a rip-off, wealthy or not. You seem to imply that he deserves this more than most people due to being a "business man", which is strange.

    I think they want people to import European Garlic instead. why not help our neighbours in the community instead of faraway China?
    what is so special about garlic from China anyway?


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    #559
    cock robin
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭cock robin


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    Do they, yeah? You obviously haven't been paying too much attention to what's been going on in this country over the last few years.

    Well then at least in this case the judge has put right that wrong and that should cause your heart to soar like an eagle. Over the past few years this type of crime went unpunished and now the reverse is true. I also understand whats going on now, bleeding hearts such as yours cannot and will not accept that tax evasions is a crime punishable (not in all cases) by a custodial sentence. Your sense of outrage at other sentences handed down in other cases has no bearing on this one. Your ire is felt by all of us when a known recidivist escapes an appropiate sentence. However in this case justice was done and was seen to be done correctly.


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    #560
    benway
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭benway


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    Irish businesspeople are being investigated left, right and center by the Revenue and .

    ... if they're straight in their dealings, they have nothing to worry about.

    You seem to be implying that being a businessperson or oootraorenooor should give them a blank cheque to break the rules, because they're "nett contributors"? After all the damage unethical businesspeople have done?


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    #561
    cock robin
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭cock robin


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    I think they want people to import European Garlic instead. why not help our neighbours in the community instead of faraway China?
    what is so special about garlic from China anyway?

    The only special thing about Chinese garlic is the exporter (when encouraged by corrupt business practice) is prepared to break the export laws not only in their own country but in this one in order to compete.


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    #562
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    cock robin wrote: »
    Well then at least in this case the judge has put right that wrong and that should cause your heart to soar like an eagle. Over the past few years this type of crime went unpunished and now the reverse is true.

    No it's not. What the hell are you talking about? This guy, and others like him, are being used as scapegoats while the people who have ravaged the country are free men. Far from soaring like an eagle, my heart's sinking like Sean Quinn's yacht in the Arctic. I don't give a flying f**k about €1.6m. I give a f**k about the scores of billions that have been stolen from our country.
    cock robin wrote: »
    I also understand whats going on now, bleeding hearts such as yours cannot and will not accept that tax evasions is a crime punishable (not in all cases) by a custodial sentence. Your sense of outrage at other sentences handed down in other cases has no bearing on this one. Your ire is felt by all of us when a known recidivist escapes an appropiate sentence. However in this case justice was done and was seen to be done correctly.

    So the small to medium sized businessman is jailed and the corrupt politicians and bankers who have made this the second most indebted country in the world (through nothing other than theft by the way - ignore the complications) will never face justice for their crimes.

    Fair enough. Carry on.


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    #563
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    benway wrote: »
    You seem to be implying that being a businessperson or oootraorenooor should give them a blank cheque to break the rules, because they're "nett contributors"?

    I'm saying that laws and taxes should be fair and ethical. A 232% tax on garlic established to protect vested interests isn't.
    benway wrote: »
    After all the damage unethical businesspeople have done?

    Your government and the banking sector have done pretty much all the damage.


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    #564
    benway
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭benway


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    I don't give a flying f**k about €1.6m. I give a f**k about the scores of billions that have been stolen from our country

    So you're totally blind to the fact that this €1.6m is a small part of the billions being fleeced through corrupt business practices.

    People are essentially trying to justify white collar crime, as if it's not "real" crime - if that works for Begley, it works for Sean Fitzgerald just the same. As I said, if the small fry get a pass, what chance of action on the big fish?


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    #565
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    benway wrote: »
    As I said, if the small fry get a pass, what chance of action on the big fish?

    It doesn't matter what happens to the small fry. The big fish will continue to operate with impunity. The small fry will be prosecuted to convince people like you that you're not being completely and utterly raped.


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    #566
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,667 ✭✭✭Worztron


    When the guy is released from jail - will he still have to pay the tax back? Or is the debt wiped out?

    Also, when someone is jailed for not being able to pay a fine or TV license - are these debts wiped out after a jail term has elapsed?

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #567
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    benway wrote: »

    You seem to be implying that being a businessperson or oootraorenooor should give them a blank cheque to break the rules, because they're "nett contributors"? After all the damage unethical businesspeople have done?


    Another beautiful example of the hate generated in this thread and aimed directly at anyone preceived as better off than anyone else.

    Your repetitive and derogatory use of such terms as 'oootraornoor' (and I do presume you mean entrepreneur btw and business people as if they are the embodiment of all evil is so imbilcilic that it is beyond further comment. However as far as I am aware incitement to hatred is still illegal in this country.


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    #568
    benway
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭benway


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    It doesn't matter what happens to the small fry.

    Yes, it does. Either white collar crime is a priority for the criminal justice system, or we keep on treating it like it's nearly something to be applauded. Fair play to ya bass, I'd have done the same myself.

    Everything is relative, granted, but you can't describe a €1.6m fraud as small, either.

    This point about the fairness of the tax rate is a laugh as well - if I labelled a couple of tonnes of marijuana as apples for import, then complained because the drug prohibition is irrational and unfair when I got caught, I don't think I'd get much sympathy.

    @gozunda

    Would you go away out of that. People are trying to claim that the law shouldn't apply to your heroic "net contributors", all I want is that the law should apply at all levels of society. Is that too much to ask? Really?


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    #569
    cock robin
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭cock robin


    gozunda wrote: »
    Another beautiful example of the hate generated in this thread and aimed directly at anyone preceived as better off than anyone else.

    Your repetitive and derogatory use of such terms as 'oootraornoor' (and I do presume you mean entrepreneur btw and business people as if they are the embodiment of all evil is so imbilcilic that it is beyond further comment. However as far as I am aware incitement to hatred is still illegal in this country.

    There has been no hatred directed at anyone on this thread. Posters are merely commenting on a topic. I think the term used to describe entrepreneur is a light hearted attempt to describe a corrupt buisnessman and not decent businessmen who conduct their affairs in a legal fashion. There is no socialist agenda or anti business agenda either. You have no clue as to the backround of any poster. So for all you know we are business men who are fed up trying to act in an appropiate manner and are competing against those who evade tax in order to compete against us who pay all taxes wether we agree with them or not. Your a 100% regarding incitement to hatred being illegal, it's right up there with fraud. Of course given that its a non violent crime sure what the hell.


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    #570
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    cock robin wrote: »
    Sure we would'nt need the clampers if tax evaders paid their fair share.

    My point being that 232% isnt a fair share at all, which is what would make it tempting to avoid at all cost. 232% tax on anything, is absolutely insane.
    Fuinseog wrote: »
    I think they want people to import European Garlic instead. why not help our neighbours in the community instead of faraway China?

    Help our neighbours?? Interesting business model there. :rolleyes:
    Fuinseog wrote: »
    what is so special about garlic from China anyway?

    The price they sell it at obviously. It's not fake garlic. Why be unfair to far away China? They have the best price on the market, but we should pay 232% more than that because they're what, competitive? far away? different? Someone somewhere decided they'd rather pocket the 232% than let the person that got the better price by sourcing it in China?


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    #571
    florawest
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭florawest


    I totally disagree with him being jailed, he employs alot of people, why not have an alternative, say supply Simon Community or some other needy group of people with fresh fruit and veg for a year as well as paying back what he defrauded, the law is strange, seems to be a bit laxy on some and extremely tough on others, why not the same across the board


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