Che Guevara Statue In Galway

johngalway

old hippy wrote: »

I don't do drugs, so I guess you and your cohorts will have to find another tired & lazy assed cliche to dismiss those who don't tread your particular path of self righteous knee jerkery.

Nothing knee jerk about my self. I object to a statue of a communist revolutionary in Galway on moral grounds. Communist systems are repressive, cruel, and inhumane. But don't let facts get in the way of your version of Nirvana.

fishy fishy

Grayson wrote: »

I was in the Caribbean in October one year. Lovely weather. Rained for two hours every day like clockwork. Lovely warm rain. The rest of the time it was a scorcher.

one time I was flying to havana in november and flew right into the tail end of a hurricane - exciting.

Duggys Housemate

fishy fishy wrote: »

one time I was flying to havana in november and flew right into the tail end of a hurricane - exciting.

No chance of you emigrating then? to have the same rights as a Cuban citizen, and if not, why not?

fishy fishy

also, it might be good to note that when visiting Cuba you will be amazed to see just how many Americans make it their holiday destination.

Paparazzo

fishy fishy wrote: »

It's a pity more people doesn't really know more about Cuba, instead of pretending they do.

When are you moving there? Apparently loads of irish that cant get jobs are heading there. I heard loads of americans risk their lives by floating across from florida to cuba it's such a great place to start a new life.

fishy fishy

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

No chance of you emigrating then? to have the same rights as a Cuban citizen, and if not, why not?

i would have no problem whatsoever living in cuba - I suppose duggy you are still listening to what they supposedly "can't do". Pity - maybe take a trip and see exactly what goes on there. I supposed people who like their mcdonalds and abercrombie stores might have a problem tho. :rolleyes:

Remember, in Europe Cuba is a holiday destination, try going there and then return with a bit more reality.

fishy fishy

Paparazzo wrote: »

When are you moving there? Apparently loads of irish that cant get jobs are heading there. I heard loads of americans risk their lives by floating across from florida to cuba it's such a great place to start a new life.

whatever impressions "floats your boat" paparazzo. (pardon the pun).

fishy fishy

biko wrote: »

How did you like it yourself? Quite hot in the summer eh?

you never came back and said how you liked it biko?

Duggys Housemate

fishy fishy wrote: »

i would have no problem whatsoever living in cuba - I suppose duggy you are still listening to what they supposedly "can't do". Pity - maybe take a trip and see exactly what goes on there. I supposed people who like their mcdonalds and abercrombie stores might have a problem tho. :rolleyes:

Remember, in Europe Cuba is a holiday destination, try going there and then return with a bit more reality.

You have no problem living there and yet you live here. I want you to live there, by the way, with the same rights as a Cuban ( although, unlikely for the one or two Europeans who live there). This would mean, at a minimum.

1) No democracy.
2) No access to the internet.
3) No right to leave.
4) and no modern consumer goods, although they do have a lot of 50's Americana, which is quaint.


I have a cousin who loves Australia, and has since he was a kid. I never got it myself. He went on holiday there as a teenager with family, then again in college on his own bat, and quite a few times since then.

Where is he living now?
Australia.

Where are you living now?
Not-cuba.

Stalinism is, I find, better lived by other people at a distance, even for Stalinists. Especially for Stalinists.

During the cold war apologists for Cuba were drowned out by apologists for the East German state, or Hungary, or Mao's China, or the Soviet Union itself. And meanwhile, in a country which bled people in the 80's, we couldn't get one stalinist apologist to live anywhere but capitalist democracies. Frankly, I would have paid them to go. Time moves on, and there is only two real stalinist States left, and very few people fetishise North Korea, so the hypocrisy is concentrated on Cuba.

fishy fishy

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

You have no problem living there and yet you live here. I want you to live there, by the way, with the same rights as a Cuban ( although, unlikely for the one or two Europeans who live there). This would mean, at a minimum.

1) No democracy.
2) No access to the internet.
3) No right to leave.
4) and no modern consumer goods, although they do have a lot of 50's Americana, which is quaint.


I have a cousin who loves Australia, and has since he was a kid. I never got it myself. He went on holiday there as a teenager with family, then again in college on his own bat, and quite a few times since then.

Where is he living now?
Australia.

Where are you living now?
Not-cuba.

Stalinism is, I find, better lived by other people at a distance, even for Stalinists. Especially for Stalinists.

During the cold war apologists for Cuba were drowned out by apologists for the East German state, or Hungary, or Mao's China, or the Soviet Union itself. And meanwhile, in a country which bled people in the 80's, we couldn't get one stalinist apologist to live anywhere but capitalist democracies. Frankly, I would have paid them to go. Time moves on, and there is only two real stalinist States left, and very few people fetishise North Korea, so the hypocrisy is concentrated on Cuba.

thats a typical response from somebody who relies on somebody else to tell them how to think! save up and go yourself dugs - you will be AMAZED at the difference between whats in your head and what reality is. :cool:

Duggys Housemate

fishy fishy wrote: »

thats a typical response from somebody who relies on somebody else to tell them how to think!

Lol, like Castro tells you what to think.

save up and go yourself dugs - you will be AMAZED at the difference between whats in your head and what reality is. :cool:

I am sure that some people come back from North Korean glowing with how great it is, that is because what they see there is controlled.

If you have been there, you have never talked to a local, or just to stooges, you saw what you wanted to see.

And you deflected the question you quoted. If it is so good, if we are such fools in the west, if it is as good as you say, why are you not living there?

fishy fishy

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Lol, like Castro tells you what to think.



I am sure that some people come back from North Korean glowing with how great it is, that is because what they see there is controlled.

If you have been there, you have never talked to a local, or just to stooges, you saw what you wanted to see.

And you deflected the question you quoted. If it is so good, if we are such fools in the west, if it is as good as you say, why are you not living there?

keep digging the hole for yourself duggy - you're doing a fine job.

old hippy

johngalway wrote: »

Nothing knee jerk about my self. I object to a statue of a communist revolutionary in Galway on moral grounds. Communist systems are repressive, cruel, and inhumane. But don't let facts get in the way of your version of Nirvana.

"Methinks the hippy is on the 'shrooms tonight" - and that's a fact, too, is it? Hmmm?

Some would say capitalist systems are repressive, cruel and inhumane also.

Paparazzo

fishy fishy wrote: »

i would have no problem whatsoever living in cuba - I suppose duggy you are still listening to what they supposedly "can't do". Pity - maybe take a trip and see exactly what goes on there. I supposed people who like their mcdonalds and abercrombie stores might have a problem tho. :rolleyes:

Remember, in Europe Cuba is a holiday destination, try going there and then return with a bit more reality.

Ah yes, a holiday destination, that means it's ok. One of my mates is just back from China, another holiday destination, another from Egypt. But the must be ok, they're holiday destinations.
You can have a good time in any of these countrys on holidays, but seriously, if you think the biggest drawback of living in Cuba is having no McDonalds, you're seriously deluding yourself.
Have a look at the press freedom index: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index
I'm guessing you'd come back from a guided tour of North Korea and think the place is tickety boo. I'm still waiting for you to call us "sheeple" for thinking Cuba is an opressive dictatorship

smokedeels

old hippy wrote: »

johngalway wrote: »

Nothing knee jerk about my self. I object to a statue of a communist revolutionary in Galway on moral grounds. Communist systems are repressive, cruel, and inhumane. But don't let facts get in the way of your version of Nirvana.

"Methinks the hippy is on the 'shrooms tonight" - and that's a fact, too, is it? Hmmm?

Some would say capitalist systems are repressive, cruel and inhumane also.

Capitalism for all its flaws is still the only system that in practice allows people a voice, a vote and control over their own lives (to a degree I'll admit)

We'll probably move towards a global Marxist system when we burn through our natural resources, I agree with some of the ideas.

However, the experiments with it places like Cuba, Russia and North Korea are/were deplorable and nobody on this website would want to live in any of those places.

johngalway

old hippy wrote: »

"Methinks the hippy is on the 'shrooms tonight" - and that's a fact, too, is it? Hmmm?

Some would say capitalist systems are repressive, cruel and inhumane also.

Speculation based on your "reasoning", or apparent lack of.

You know what, I'm sure some do, however, Democratic Governments have an awful long way to go to catch up with Communism.

I particularly liked this part:

"Courtois claims that Communist regimes are responsible for a greater number of deaths than any other political ideal or movement, including Nazism."

Do you deny there are political prisoners in Cuba?
Do you deny that people risk their lives to get off that island to live in free countries on makeshift rafts?

Broaden your own horizons with Human Rights Watch's report on Cuba for 2012.

Their biggest problem with Democratic Ireland? Access to abortion - which we should have.

Jesus, I feel the state jackboot on my neck here, I'm off to North Korea for some R&R :eek:

Happy Monday

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Sure he was a democrat, So was Dev. ,I didn't see them building a dictatorship after the war of Independence.

( cue nonsense about the Church being as bad as Stalin, or something).

Dev expressed his condolences at the death of one Adolf Hitler.
He also opposed the vote taken to pass the Treaty and kicked off a civil war.

Collins was commander in chief of the armed forces during 1922.
El Commandante if you will just like Che.
No political office for him.

Not exactly dyed in the wool democrats.

Duggys Housemate

Happy Monday wrote: »

Dev expressed his condolences at the death of one Adolf Hitler.

Which doesn't make him a dictator.

He also opposed the vote taken to pass the Treaty and kicked off a civil war.

Opposing a vote didn't make him a dictator.

Collins was commander in chief of the armed forces during 1922.

Which didn't make him a dictator.

Not exactly dyed in the wool democrats.

You sorta missed the whole democratic thing which came next. The laying down of arms, the voting, the Dail, the multi-party elections and so on.

If Fidel had done that he would

1) Not be in power now
2) Be a democrat.

he isn't a dictator because he took up arms against Batista, but because he is a dictator. Its what came next.

remedially yours.

Duggy's housemate.

Happy Monday

Too long to quote.
Collins undemocratically took part in 1916.
Similar to Che in overthrowing Batista.
They both held military positions to help overthrow regimes.

Duggys Housemate

Happy Monday wrote: »

Too long to quote.
Collins undemocratically took part in 1916.
Similar to Che in overthrowing Batista.
They both held military positions to help overthrow regimes.

You sorta missed the whole democratic thing which came next. The laying down of arms, the voting, the Dail, the multi-party elections and so on.

If Fidel had done that he would

1) Not be in power now
2) Be a democrat.

he isn't a dictator because he took up arms against Batista, but because he is a dictator. Its what came next.

Duggys Housemate

Also. Nelson Mandela is not a dictator. just throwing that in there.

Happy Monday

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Also. Nelson Mandela is not a dictator. just throwing that in there.

Che wasn't a dictator either.
Died before he was 40.

Happy Monday

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Also. Nelson Mandela is not a dictator. just throwing that in there.

Just going to throw this in here.
Nelson Mandela has stated that Che was an inspiration to free people everywhere. Google that.
Looks like the greatest man in the living world is a Che fan.

FoxT

johngalway wrote: »

.
.
.
.
Do you deny there are political prisoners in Cuba?
.
.
.

Do you mean the ones in Guantanamo Bay?

RichieC

FoxT wrote: »

Do you mean the ones in Guantanamo Bay?

They are legitimate because america **** yea.

Duggys Housemate

RichieC wrote: »

They are legitimate because america **** yea.

No how about this - they are both illegitimate. You seem happy with the Island being a prison camp in it totality, but upset with the American part, why is that?

johngalway

FoxT wrote: »

Do you mean the ones in Guantanamo Bay?

And that has what to do with a statue of Che Guevara in Galway? Why not deal with Communist Che Guevara and the socialist paradise of Cuba? That is what the thread is about after all.

LH Pathe

Is it set in stone yet? Long live che.

I look like che...

Paparazzo

LH Pathe wrote: »

Long live che.

I've some bad news for you...

LH Pathe

Where's the spirit, man..

In me. I am Che! fulfilled. that's a lie.. I am not as portly