Valve developing steam box console

PseudoFamous

EnterNow wrote: »

I highly doubt they're gonna release a box that isn't highly compatible with the Steam library in fairness?

So how exactly are they going to deal with the hurdle that is Direct X? It's exclusive to Microsoft's platforms, and most PC games use DirectX APIs. Microsoft aren't going to allow licensing of it on the steambox unless it's running windows.

hooradiation

PseudoFamous wrote: »

So how exactly are they going to deal with the hurdle that is Direct X? It's exclusive to Microsoft's platforms, and most PC games use DirectX APIs. Microsoft aren't going to allow licensing of it on the steambox unless it's running windows.

The simple solution would be to make it run windows, I would imagine.


Unless they're actually seriously considering splitting this endeavour entirely from steam on PC, making it literally a stand alone platform that has it's own separate store and titles.
Which is the dumbest thing I've heard in quite some time.

norrie rugger

Splitting it from Steam PC would remove its biggest selling point (to me at least)
Having the potential for cross platform gaming between PC and console would be frikken awesome

megaten

Linux is obviously something there working on for down the road. If the steambox is coming out anytime soon I fully expect it to be running on windows underneath.
As for direct x it might not be as big a problem as you might think if Valve can convince publishers that pursuing linux is worthwile. Most games would have an Open GL fork for the playstation 3 release and there no reason to assume the PS4 will be any different. Games with lower requirements should be able to run through wine without too much impact.
If theres any reason for it to fail I'd expect it to be staffing issues rather than financial. Valves corporate culture can't facilitate staffing up quickly so I'd imagine they would have to depend on manufactures for stuff like customer support.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

with the amount of faffing about required with wine I can't see how they'd even think about putting it on a console

megaten

If it's a controlled environment like they say it's going to be I'd assume the faffing about with wine would be done on the publishers end.

hooradiation

norrie rugger wrote: »

Splitting it from Steam PC would remove its biggest selling point (to me at least)

Hence the "dumbest thing ever" award it just received.

megaten wrote: »

As for direct x it might not be as big a problem as you might think if Valve can convince publishers that pursuing linux is worthwile.

They *might* be able to convince them to make time for whatever crazy ass distro they build into the steambox if they went that route.

But they'd have to show the number of boxes was high enough to warrant the investment, and that the attach rate was high enough.
It's a chicken and the egg scenario whereby not enough people would buy such a machine, because there aren't enough games on it, but there aren't that many games on it because people aren't buying the damn thing.

Retr0gamer

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

with the amount of faffing about required with wine I can't see how they'd even think about putting it on a console

GoG do it pretty well with DosBox. However Wine really isn't an ideal solution. I don't see a Linux box being too popular with many small developers. Indie games is one of the best things about steam so cutting them off would be a big loss. I'm guessing it's a lot of work changing from direct X API's to Open GL ones and testing it.

Myrddin

PseudoFamous wrote: »

So how exactly are they going to deal with the hurdle that is Direct X? It's exclusive to Microsoft's platforms, and most PC games use DirectX APIs. Microsoft aren't going to allow licensing of it on the steambox unless it's running windows.

I would imagine they'll run it on, & license if they have to, whatever platform the majority of games will need. Modern arcade games like SF4 all run on an embedded form of windows, I don't see why this couldn't do the same thing?

gizmo

Retr0gamer wrote: »

GoG do it pretty well with DosBox. However Wine really isn't an ideal solution. I don't see a Linux box being too popular with many small developers. Indie games is one of the best things about steam so cutting them off would be a big loss. I'm guessing it's a lot of work changing from direct X API's to Open GL ones and testing it.

Initial learning and documentation/tools deficiencies aside, I'd imagine optimisation and testing would be the biggest headaches. In terms of functionality they're on a fairly level playing field as far as I'm aware.

PseudoFamous

EnterNow wrote: »

I don't see why this couldn't do the same thing?

I'd have thought all signs pointed to linux with some of the things said by Valve, and the release of steam on linux.

hooradiation

gizmo wrote: »

Initial learning and documentation/tools deficiencies aside, I'd imagine optimisation and testing would be the biggest headaches. In terms of functionality they're on a fairly level playing field as far as I'm aware.

The guys at DosBox tend to take a few months to bring a title from the receiving of the original files to being available and they only have a small, by comparison, number of titles to work with at any given time - the task of making, say, 10% of a publishers back catalogue work with wine would be almost sisyphean.
The costs alone would make it very unlikely.

Shiminay

It's hard to imagine it not running Windows, but it's harder to imagine Microsoft getting into bed with them for OEM Licencing when it's going to be a direct competitor with the XBox as your go-to "Living room" device. I'd imagine they're working bloody hard on not only their own flavour of Linux, but development tools to either replace or mimic Direct X; given the sheer size of their existing catalogue for Direct X/Windows based machines, it would make all the sense in the world to spend time trying to put something in place to make porting it a relatively painless matter.

ScumLord

EnterNow wrote: »

I too have my pc setup with my 42" tv & use wireless kb/mouse. Its the business for browsing & everyday pc work...but for gaming its terrible. You can't substitute a good quality desk with a couch, it just doesn't work.

I use an arm chair with flat wooden armrests. The keyboard isn't much of a problem but I have a piece of timber to put the mouse on. My keyboard is fairly small to boot Microsoft sidewinder that you can remove the number keypad on. It's very playable if not quite as good as sitting at a desk but still so much better than trying to use an xbox controller for an FPS. That's like trying to thread a needle with your feet while being inebriated.

Retr0gamer

Shiminay wrote: »

It's hard to imagine it not running Windows, but it's harder to imagine Microsoft getting into bed with them for OEM Licencing when it's going to be a direct competitor with the XBox as your go-to "Living room" device.

It's more a problem for Valve. It's extra licensing costs for them to license windows that will factor into the boxes price, but then as mentioned here licensing is he easier way to go.

For Microsoft they get money for each box sold so it's win-win for them and I doubt they can charge more for the windows license than they charge competitors, there could be anti competition legislation, well possibly, I'm just guessing there.

Myrddin

ScumLord wrote: »

It's very playable if not quite as good as sitting at a desk but still so much better than trying to use an xbox controller for an FPS. That's like trying to thread a needle with your feet while being inebriated.

I agree you can conjure up some setups that might get the job done, but as you already mention, a proper desk blows all armchair solutions outta the water. I miss having a desk so much, just don't have the space for one!

FPS on a joypad is another thing, lets not rattle that cage

norrie rugger

I prefer comfort over a desk. That and the fact that I am using my TV and sound system, with the chair in the sound sweet spot.

Kylo Ren

I'll buy it on two conditions.

1. There will be mods for games.

2. It will be called the 'GabeCube'

Genghiz Cohen

Keno 92 wrote: »

I'll buy it on two conditions.

1. There will be mods for games.

2. It will be called the 'GabeCube'

Gabestation would also be acceptable.

stevenmu

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's more a problem for Valve. It's extra licensing costs for them to license windows that will factor into the boxes price, but then as mentioned here licensing is he easier way to go.

For Microsoft they get money for each box sold so it's win-win for them and I doubt they can charge more for the windows license than they charge competitors, there could be anti competition legislation, well possibly, I'm just guessing there.

I don't think licensing would be a huge deal. Any time Dell/HP etc release a Linux machine, they inevitably cost a little more than the equivalent Windows version. Some of that is down to the crap-ware that OEMs get paid to preload, but Microsoft do give very favourable rates to high volume OEMs and offer all kinds of other incentives.

I think Valve's only real issue is with the Windows Store. They won't want to ship a device with a competitors store built in, and in the case of Windows RT it's the only available route for software.

It's possible that the talk of Linux is a negotiating tactic. I think Valves best possible scenario is if they got permission to use Windows, but replace the Windows Store with Steam and to be able to bring Windows Store Apps to Steam as well. That would be a huge win for Valve, but I don't think MS would go for it.

If Valve do go for a Linux based OS, they could decide to release Half Life 3 exclusively for it. That alone could be enough to give them a very big instant install base. Which in turn would then provide the incentive for other Steam publishers to port their games. That would be a huge risk in many respects, but it would be a bigger killer game than Xbox, Xbox360, PS2 or PS3 launched with, and they've all done pretty well.

There is an opportunity there to do for the home PC what Apple did for MP3 players, smartphones and tablets. If they get the hardware and OS right, if they market it right, and have the games and other apps available, they could break open the PC gaming market and snatch it away from MS.


edit: Oh and if we're betting on names, I've got €50 on "The Black Box".

Myrddin

stevenmu wrote: »

If Valve do go for a Linux based OS, they could decide to release Half Life 3 exclusively for it.

I had the same thought myself, HL3 is a huge ace card up their sleeve here

PseudoFamous

EnterNow wrote: »

I had the same thought myself, HL3 is a huge ace card up their sleeve here

An insignificant number of people would buy a console for half life 3 when they already own a gaming computer. That'd be more a way to piss your current customers off than to get people to buy your product.

gizmo

stevenmu wrote: »

I don't think licensing would be a huge deal. Any time Dell/HP etc release a Linux machine, they inevitably cost a little more than the equivalent Windows version. Some of that is down to the crap-ware that OEMs get paid to preload, but Microsoft do give very favourable rates to high volume OEMs and offer all kinds of other incentives.

Whereas most of it is probably down to economies of scale I'd imagine. That being said, I couldn't see licencing being the thing that stands in the way of Valve using it in their device, certainly not from a permission point of view.

stevenmu wrote: »

I think Valve's only real issue is with the Windows Store. They won't want to ship a device with a competitors store built in, and in the case of Windows RT it's the only available route for software.

Windows RT is irrelevant to the discussion. The Windows Store, however, is also present in the normal Windows 8 install and is the more likely candidate were they to go for a regular Windows desktop OS. I'd also strongly agree that it's a major issue for Valve and, quite likely, the largest source of their displeasure with the OS. I too can't see MS budging on that issue, nor should they really.

stevenmu wrote: »

If Valve do go for a Linux based OS, they could decide to release Half Life 3 exclusively for it. That alone could be enough to give them a very big instant install base. Which in turn would then provide the incentive for other Steam publishers to port their games. That would be a huge risk in many respects, but it would be a bigger killer game than Xbox, Xbox360, PS2 or PS3 launched with, and they've all done pretty well.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. What existing install base are you referring to? The Linux one on both desktop and with their console? Surely you're not suggesting they wouldn't release it for Windows?

Myrddin

PseudoFamous wrote: »

An insignificant number of people would buy a console for half life 3 when they already own a gaming computer. That'd be more a way to piss your current customers off than to get people to buy your product.

Fools & their money etc

Adyx

I think it's fairly obvious that it'll run ReactOS - WinXP compatible (including DirectX I think) and it's open source.












:pac:

norrie rugger

PseudoFamous wrote: »

An insignificant number of people would buy a console for half life 3 when they already own a gaming computer. That'd be more a way to piss your current customers off than to get people to buy your product.

Why would they market it at PC gamers?
This will be straight up targeted at people that would like to be PC gamers but can not get over the entry costs, fear of a PC, or straight up do not need a PC (as they have one already). Basically console gamers

stevenmu

gizmo wrote: »

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. What existing install base are you referring to? The Linux one on both desktop and with their console? Surely you're not suggesting they wouldn't release it for Windows?

I think it's a definite possibility. The money they would get for a hugely successful Half Life 3 would be small compared to the ongoing revenue stream a major console would provide. They could gamble and sacrifice Half Life 3 sales to help make their console launch a success

gizmo

stevenmu wrote: »

I think it's a definite possibility. The money they would get for a hugely successful Half Life 3 would be small compared to the ongoing revenue stream a major console would provide. They could gamble and sacrifice Half Life 3 sales to help make their console launch a success

Hmm, it's an interesting idea alright. It'd at least be interesting to see how many Windows users would dual boot into Linux just to play one game. I'd imagine the number would be far lower than those current Linux users who dual boot into Windows to play everything else.

Not only that but it'd finally become socially acceptable to call Valve a bunch of pricks for forcing a different OS on people. I mean, EA were pricks for forcing Origin, a mere digital distribution service, on people for Battlefield 3, right? :pac:

Dyr

norrie rugger wrote: »

Why would they market it at PC gamers?
This will be straight up targeted at people that would like to be PC gamers but can not get over the entry costs, fear of a PC, or straight up do not need a PC (as they have one already). Basically console gamers

They're aiming it at people who want to play on a TV rather than at their desks, thats not necessarily console gamers

norrie rugger

Bambi wrote: »

They're aiming it at people who want to play on a TV rather than at their desks, thats not necessarily console gamers

PC HDMI to TV does me just fine.
Fine they may look to some PC gamers that want to have a PC at a desk and play on the TV but there would be easier ways of doing that than a dedicated console no?

I see this as a direct attempt at bringing PC style gaming to the masses