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is RTE 2 HD Coming To Sky?
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The Government ..... I have a Sky FTA card with Setanta only on it.
Its possible that RTE could go on these cards..... I don't know the exact reasoning why the don't though.
Are you paying Setanta directly? And not paying Sky?
Of course this is possible, but Sky own the CAS (Conditional Access System) and seem to call the shots when dealing with RTE.
Sky would have a separate arrangement with Setanta, but Setanta would be paying carriage charges to Sky, and within the terms of their agreements, are entitled to request cards for their customers.
RTE pay no carriage charges to Sky, and are accomodated in prime positions on the EPG. Sky have offered this arrangement to RTE, to ensure they maintain their subs and revenue stream from Ireland.
Under no circumstances would Sky make RTE available by a FTV card and jepordise this income.
This gets back to my argument about why Sky should not receive RTE's HD content under the current arrangement.
The cards are also very cheap, less than €10 per card when bought in bulk, depending on the security vendor.0 -
Under EU & Irish law if you have more than a certain turnover you need to register a local office and charge the local VAT Rate. Sky are not doing this except on Installs and Pub / Commercial contracts.
RTE & TG4 are obliged to provide their channels to pay TV operators Specifically operating in Ireland. Though you can legally get non-Sky Satellite Pay TV in Ireland it's not being marketed here, so RTE etc don't have to offer the channels.
In theory Sky and UPC actually ought to Pay RTE & TV3 & TG4 as it is significant commercial advantage to them to have the Irish channels on their platform. Someone somewhere in Irish Government/ BAI/Comreg/RTE etc is an idiot as UPC and Sky get the content free.0 -
RTE & TG4 are obliged to provide their channels to pay TV operators Specifically operating in Ireland. Though you can legally get non-Sky Satellite Pay TV in Ireland it's not being marketed here, so RTE etc don't have to offer the channels.
Are RTÉ and TG4 obliged to provide their channels to pay TV operators at the same rate that they charge RTÉNL, or can they charge alternate rates? I know it's moot at the moment in that they don't charge Sky/UPC, but do they charge RTÉNL?
If they can charge alternate rates, presumably there's something that controls what that rate is, or else the "obliged to provide" could just mean "we'll charge you €1bn/minute" and then technically they're "providing", just at an extortionate rate...0 -
Sky are a British broadcaster - not Irish - u pay ur sub to sky subscriber services in the uk - nothing to do with Irish revenue - if u want to pay the Irish government vat subscribe to UPC
Rte are on the platform is of very little benefit to sky - some of us don't want them in the prime positions and would actually prefer to disable them from appearing.
Rte get carriage for free - most stations have to pay - so no real net gain or loss.0 -
Are you paying Setanta directly? And not paying Sky?
Of course this is possible, but Sky own the CAS (Conditional Access System) and seem to call the shots when dealing with RTE.
Sky would have a separate arrangement with Setanta, but Setanta would be paying carriage charges to Sky, and within the terms of their agreements, are entitled to request cards for their customers.
The situation is you are, according to Setanta, able to request a card that allows you to view some programmes on Setanta (chiefly the "Irish Films on Setanta" that they occasionally run, but some other programming that has been publicly funded under the Sound and Vision scheme). As Setanta isn't normally available free on any platform, I imagine this is only available to allow Setanta claim there is a way to watch these programmes without paying. I would say the numbers that know this scheme exists, never mind have a card themselves, are very small. The viewing cards for this scheme are Sky viewing cards and only work in Sky Digiboxes.
Details here:
http://www.setanta.com/ie/Join-Now1/Satellite/SATELLITE-FAQS/#90 -
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In theory Sky and UPC actually ought to Pay RTE & TV3 & TG4 as it is significant commercial advantage to them to have the Irish channels on their platform. Someone somewhere in Irish Government/ BAI/Comreg/RTE etc is an idiot as UPC and Sky get the content free.
RTE/TV3 & TG4 derive substantial advertising income thanks to their carriage on Sky & UPC.
RTE additionally have a very good deal with Sky and all have top EPG positioning.
3e doubled (trippled?) its viewing figures when it was moved up the EPG - overall its a win win for all involved - no idiots anywhere imo (this specific issue!)0 -
The situation is you are, according to Setanta, able to request a card that allows you to view some programmes on Setanta (chiefly the "Irish Films on Setanta" that they occasionally run, but some other programming that has been publicly funded under the Sound and Vision scheme). As Setanta isn't normally available free on any platform, I imagine this is only available to allow Setanta claim there is a way to watch these programmes without paying. I would say the numbers that know this scheme exists, never mind have a card themselves, are very small. The viewing cards for this scheme are Sky viewing cards and only work in Sky Digiboxes.
Details here:
http://www.setanta.com/ie/Join-Now1/Satellite/SATELLITE-FAQS/#9
That's very interesting. So the card is used to decrypt only when these programmes are on? That would involve some criteria changes to Sky's CAS, from Setanta's subscriber management system.
So who pays for the cards? Sky provide cards free, on request to cable ops, but I doubt that's the case here. The BAI?
If so, couldn't a similar scheme to provide RTE free via FTV card, to a registered TV license holder, be a good solution?0 -
I buy items from Amazon UK and they correctly charge me Irish VAT.Markdub2000 wrote: »Sky are a British broadcaster - not Irish - u pay ur sub to sky subscriber services in the uk - nothing to do with Irish revenue - if u want to pay the Irish government vat subscribe to UPC
Sky are clever. There must be some financial advantage to them not paying Irish VAT and have found a loophole to achieve it.0 -
I love the way sky can use the Television WIthout Frontiers to suit their needs but at the same time sue publicans using legitimate foreign sports satellite subs.0
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Under EU & Irish law if you have more than a certain turnover you need to register a local office and charge the local VAT Rate. Sky are not doing this except on Installs and Pub / Commercial contracts.
Pubs pay into the UK. They pay 0% UK VAT which they are entitled to by providing their Irish VAT number to Sky, same as importing anything from the EU with a VAT number. This is detailed in the Sky commercial contract for pubs, available from the Sky Business website.
At least this used to be the case for pubs, maybe this has changed recently? I'm doubtful.
Are installers not independent, and therefor responsible for their own tax affairs?
All cable operators pay monthly, directly into the UK, at 0% UK VAT.0 -
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In theory Sky and UPC actually ought to Pay RTE & TV3 & TG4 as it is significant commercial advantage to them to have the Irish channels on their platform. Someone somewhere in Irish Government/ BAI/Comreg/RTE etc is an idiot as UPC and Sky get the content free.
This could never work.
In UPC's case they'd have to pass the charge onto their customers, on top of large wholesale fees imposed on them by Sky, MTV, Nick, Disney, TCM, and other broadcasters, for access to premium content. This would make a mockery out of the TV side of their business, when their customer can pick up the Irish services for free on a fork.
Instead, by providing these free to UPC, they should be made provide these over their network, in the clear, and possibly in both, DVB-C, and DVB-T in the lower part of the UHF band, making them as accessible as possible. They certainly are an addition to the service, and act as a step-up to other pay services.
Likewise, if Sky are being provided with RTE for free, and they must be encrypted due to rights/overspill issues, they should be done so with the option of being available for the Irish license payer with a FTV card, paid for by the state via the license fee.
RTE have an obligation to deliver RTE to the TV license payers of Ireland. They are now doing this via DTT, and the soon to be Sat service, and they are no longer as obligated to Sky as they once were.
If any of the idiots in the Irish Government/BAI/ComReg/RTE etc could see sense, RTE's service on Astra should only continue operation by allowing the Irish consumer delivery choice via two options.....
a) a pay option on Sky's entry pack as is, which is Sky's good luck.
b) the option of a FTV card scheme with no pay channels.
....... or withdrawn altogether.
Let Sky like it or lump it. With a revenue stream from 600,000+ subs to hold onto to, I doubt they would turn their noses up at it.
Properly regulated, they should not be able to deny any cable operators access to their services, increasing competition and driving both cable and sat subscriber fees downwards.
We'd also keep a few quid in circulation here for ourselves, where it's needed more than sending it to HMRC.0 -
I don't think you understand how Cable or Re-Broadcast works.
1) They have to use DVB-C, DVB-T is unsuitable. Likely be messed up by their distribution amps.
2) The cable and connection costs money. In theory nothing should be in the Clear as that encourage people to tap into the cable and damage it.
3) The likes of BBC, C4 etc is very cheap (not free). RTE/TV3/TG4 could be cheaper. We are not talking about Sky pay channel prices. Only channels like DWTV and BBC World News are "Free to Carry" (FTC). The Freesat channels are Free To Air all over Ireland, legally. But also no Cable, Satellite or Terrestrial system can retransmit ANY of them without written permission. There is a charge (though not large) to carry any that are not "Free To Carry" (Most channels. Even the few FTC channels you need written permission.
BBC pay Sky to be on Sky EPG in UK. Sky Pay BBC to put them on Irish EPG. Actually BBC ought to call Sky's bluff and get free EPG or even be paid a nominal sum. The actual signal on a Sky Box is the Freesat signal BBC pays for. The EPG costs Sky almost nothing.
There are a lot of strange anomalies!0 -
Are you paying Setanta directly? And not paying Sky?
Of course this is possible, but Sky own the CAS (Conditional Access System) and seem to call the shots when dealing with RTE.
Sky would have a separate arrangement with Setanta, but Setanta would be paying carriage charges to Sky, and within the terms of their agreements, are entitled to request cards for their customers.
RTE pay no carriage charges to Sky, and are accomodated in prime positions on the EPG. Sky have offered this arrangement to RTE, to ensure they maintain their subs and revenue stream from Ireland.
Under no circumstances would Sky make RTE available by a FTV card and jepordise this income.
This gets back to my argument about why Sky should not receive RTE's HD content under the current arrangement.
The cards are also very cheap, less than €10 per card when bought in bulk, depending on the security vendor.
I pay Setanta annually, Got the card for free too from Setanta via Sky.
First card I got had the English EPG on it & not Irish, I called Sky first & interestingly they had no record of the viewing card number.
RTE can go on these cards & therefore be blocked to the subscribers in the U.K, so why they aren't is beyond me.
Wonder does anybody know for definite??0 -
If you expect RTÉ for free (not counting licence) who would pay for the processing and postage etc for these cards?I pay Setanta annually, Got the card for free too from Setanta via Sky.
First card I got had the English EPG on it & not Irish, I called Sky first & interestingly they had no record of the viewing card number.
RTE can go on these cards & therefore be blocked to the subscribers in the U.K, so why they aren't is beyond me.
Wonder does anybody know for definite??0 -
Gerry Wicklow wrote: »If you expect RTÉ for free (not counting licence) who would pay for the processing and postage etc for these cards?
The Government.0 -
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Gerry Wicklow wrote: »And who pays the Government???
If they bring in a new structure where the majority instead of a minority pay the license fee then I think because of the increase revenue they would recieve they should pay for the cards...0 -
The cards are not affordable. Also other issues. You have to pay also for the Encryption and call centre, not just the card cost.
Why do you think BBC, ITV, C4 and Five so keen to get off them. They are not an never were a solution given Sky's price structure. The card cost is only one part.
Setanta are not making money. They subsidised that card.
Also the cards DO NOT give real Geographical limitation. They work anywhere there is a signal. Sky can "cope" with that on a Subscription. A FTV card scheme would be massively abused.0 -
Setanta are not making money. They subsidised that card.
Indeed. You have to remember that Setanta are already paying Sky for the use of the conditional access system, and that for them to offer this service is a logical extension of that.
For RTÉ to run a FTV card scheme however, would require them to pay Sky for the - and it doesn't come cheap - use of VideoGuard and the Sky conditional access system. They'd also have to pay for the call centre and other administration costs. And the full price of being on the EPG as a non-Sky channel. And after all that they'd still be encrypted - you'd still have to use a Sky Digibox, there'd be no viewing via Freesat or other free-to-air satellite receiver.
What do you hope to gain by this? They'd be still be limited to either current or ex-customers of Sky, or people who have picked up a Sky Digibox on E-bay. We know Free-to-Air isn't an option because of the rights issues. The current situation is cost-effective for RTÉ - and ultimately the licence fee payer. It allows all Sky customers to view RTÉ. It, very importantly, puts RTÉ at the top of the Sky EPG, and allows Sky customers to access it without needing a second (Saorview) STB and all the fiddling about with leads, second remote controls, etc that entails.0 -
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If anyone is watching tonights football on RTE 2,the picture quality is atrocious on Sky-I've seen better quality streams.Thought it might be a problem with the broadcaster so checked it on Saorview,it's perfect (HD aside) whereas the Sky picture is juddery.0
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Indeed. You have to remember that Setanta are already paying Sky for the use of the conditional access system, and that for them to offer this service is a logical extension of that.
For RTÉ to run a FTV card scheme however, would require them to pay Sky for the - and it doesn't come cheap - use of VideoGuard and the Sky conditional access system. They'd also have to pay for the call centre and other administration costs. And the full price of being on the EPG as a non-Sky channel. And after all that they'd still be encrypted - you'd still have to use a Sky Digibox, there'd be no viewing via Freesat or other free-to-air satellite receiver.
What do you hope to gain by this? They'd be still be limited to either current or ex-customers of Sky, or people who have picked up a Sky Digibox on E-bay. We know Free-to-Air isn't an option because of the rights issues. The current situation is cost-effective for RTÉ - and ultimately the licence fee payer. It allows all Sky customers to view RTÉ. It, very importantly, puts RTÉ at the top of the Sky EPG, and allows Sky customers to access it without needing a second (Saorview) STB and all the fiddling about with leads, second remote controls, etc that entails.
It also allows Sky to muddy the waters with their adverts pushing Sky Digital as a legitimate way to switchover to digital. There are people who now believe that Sky is something to do with Saorview and analogue switch off. Of course there are be no real costs other than a once off €50/€60 for a STB. We now have many people signing up to quite expensive subscription packages having watched a 30 second Sky advert on the TV How there hasn't been a complaint I do not know.
On Sky's proprietary encryption and boxes, thankfully those days are going gradually. Sky have long maintained that they wont sell their Sports channels to just anyone unless they could satisfy their proprietary encryption requirements. Of course with the advent of CI+ Tv's (most big brands by default have ci+ since 2010 models) there is no need for a Sky proprietary box. Top up Tv are offering Sky 1 and 2 via freeview in the UK this way as are others with unbundled Sky sports on the continent. The new Humax boxes also have ci+ slots.0 -
I don't think you understand how Cable or Re-Broadcast works.
1) They have to use DVB-C, DVB-T is unsuitable. Likely be messed up by their distribution amps.
Watty, allow me to assure you of my understanding on how cable and re-broadcasting works.
DVB-T over cable has become hughly popular, and has been in use on cable networks across Europe, including Ireland, for several years.
I can assure you, it works very well.
It's particularly popular in Spain, Portugal and Italy. It's also popular across several operators in Germany, including Kabel Deutschland.
Dutch operators, Caiway and Rekam, are broadcasting several DVB-T mux's since 2009. They include the Dutch PSB's, all in the UHF band.
UPC in the Czech Republic do likewise.
Here's a link to their page. Let google translate....
http://www.upc.cz/televize/novinky/4-dvb-t-muxy-nasazeny/
There's many more in Europe, and it's also become extremely popular in India, China and Japan where you have many cable operators literally working on top of each other's (poorly constructed) networks, over long distances.
And here's why.....
Operators began to find that DVB-C muxs were not as good over the last mile, and DVB-T worked better over long distances, and at higher frequencies.
A DVB-T mux, modulated in COFDM, will actually work as low as nearly -40dB.
A DVB-C mux, modulated in QAM, will only work down as far as -15dB, before you get Macro blocking and break-up.
So cable operators learnt that DVB-C's QAM mux's ideal home is in the lower to mid VHF band, as is the case on UPC's spectrum.
DVB-T's COFDM mux's ideal home is at the higher frequencies, in the UHF band.
Due to the robustness of DVB-T muxs, they're able to work, at higher frequencies where there is more dB loss over longer lengths of cable.
Initially, digital tuners in TVs were all DVB-T, and started tuning at ch21, 474MHz, unlike now, where they come with DVB-C tuners.
So you have a situation whereby, the DVB-T mux gets around the network easily, and the vast majority of customers have the correct type of tuner in their TV.
Perfect to receive the Public Service Broadcasters, in the clear, in digital, and without a Set Top Box!
This is particularly popular in Germany, where you have a lot of TV channels operating in the clear. Shoving them onto DVB-T mux's in the UHF band is an ideal solution. Especially if they work directly to the TV's tuner.
DVB-T is also becoming popular in small distribution cable networks such as those in nursing homes, hotels, government buildings, etc and will undoubtably become the method of choice after ASO. These are not just "passing" a mux. They are grooming and dissecting incoming mux's, and remultiplexing onto their own mux's. I believe the distribution system in the Dail is like this.
DVB-T also has better error correction and can output up to 38MBps per mux.
QAM can do up to 50 MBps, but you must use 256bit QAM. So QAM is more effective on bandwidth use, but over a "perfect network".
As for "messing up" distribution amps, I'm not sure what you mean. Cable amps roll off at high frequencies, at least 550MHz. Amps can handle Phase Noise no problem, from each modulation type.
Fire up a couple of DVB-T mux's from ch21 up and I guarantee they'll work from one end of UPC's network to the other with little issue.
One drawback is that the DVB-T mux's would have to be dual illuminated in QAM mux's to service their encrypted QAM service. But they have the bandwidth for this.
2) In theory nothing should be in the Clear as that encourage people to tap into the cable and damage it.
That's a very valid point, but...
Cable operators are moving more and more to all encrypted services.
Doing disconnects/reconnects is a time consuming headache for them.
This has always been a problem, with the likes of UPCs analogue services.
That's why they now market them "free" with the Digital packages, and the analogue will eventually disappear.
So, they're moving to a state of "not caring" if a property is connected.
There must be thousands of property's connected to UPCs network that UPC are unaware of, especially in apartment blocks. Disconnecting these will never happen. It's the same worldwide. The problem is only solved with total encryption.
Going back to my original argument about the distribution of RTE....
UPC should get them for free, because they are free.
Under the terms of carriage, they should distribute them for free, no subscription, unencrypted, at say ch21 in DVB-T.
UPC can only charge for connections, installs, call out charges, in relation to these channels. They achieve some revenue, to justify equipment costs and power.
UPC have a launch pad to up sale to higher pay services.
Their piracy problem is more or less solved.
RTE is more available to the license payer.
Everyone's a winner!
Piracy is unlikely to happen as......
a) there's a small number of services. No premium/pay content.
b) the same services can be picked up with rabbit ears.
c) there's a good chance the property is connected anyway.
Likewise, as in my previous arguments, Sky should only be allowed these services under similar circumstances, whereby they provide a free option for the Irish license payer. ie: FTV card.
If this is not possible, they should be withdrawn from Astra.0 -
Sky should only be allowed these services under similar circumstances, whereby they provide a free option for the Irish license payer. ie: FTV card.
If this is not possible, they should be withdrawn from Astra.
And the point you seem to be ignoring is that while cable is obviously strictly geography limited, Astra at 28.2 East is not.
If RTE and Sky went down the FTV route, lots of Irish ex-pats thought Europe would be snapping up the FTV cards.0 -
Sky have long maintained that they wont sell their Sports channels to just anyone unless they could satisfy their proprietary encryption requirements. Of course with the advent of CI+ Tv's (most big brands by default have ci+ since 2010 models) there is no need for a Sky proprietary box. Top up Tv are offering Sky 1 and 2 via freeview in the UK this way as are others with unbundled Sky sports on the continent. The new Humax boxes also have ci+ slots.
OFCOM directed Sky to make the channels available to Top Up TV's customers in this manner.
It's also a method widely used across Europe to deliver premium content cheaper. ie: no box cost
In Ireland, Sky will not allow operators just use the CI on a TV.
They must use a CAM, which has to meet certain technical criteria, and that CAM must be embedded in a Set Top Box, which must meet more criteria.
Then, the card must be paired with the embedded CAM.
And there's much much more....
All this pushes up the price of the box which is passed to customer.
By making their terms on operator as awkward as possible, Sky can deliver a perceived better service than the other operator.
Irish customers leave other operators, go to Sky.
Sky get to charge them more.
Who pays more? The Irish Consumer.
Who gains more? Sky.
This is another example of the bad effects of non-regulation.0 -
Watty, allow me to assure you of my understanding on how cable and re-broadcasting works.
DVB-T over cable has become hughly popular, and has been in use on cable networks across Europe, including Ireland, for several years.
I can assure you, it works very well.
It's particularly popular in Spain, Portugal and Italy. It's also popular across several operators in Germany, including Kabel Deutschland.
Dutch operators, Caiway and Rekam, are broadcasting several DVB-T mux's since 2009. They include the Dutch PSB's, all in the UHF band.
UPC in the Czech Republic do likewise.
Here's a link to their page. Let google translate....
http://www.upc.cz/televize/novinky/4-dvb-t-muxy-nasazeny/
There's many more in Europe, and it's also become extremely popular in India, China and Japan where you have many cable operators literally working on top of each other's (poorly constructed) networks, over long distances.
Hi, What do you mean by DVB-T over cable? They are both different platforms. One is a PAY closed platform, the other in most countries is FTA.
Kabel Deutschland use DVB-C and more recently DVB-C2.
Rekam Caiway are both cable operators as are Ziggo. Rekam uses Caiway's fibre network in addition to DVB-C. Only the PSB channels are FTA.
The use of DVB-T as a plugin was distributed because analogue was being turned off in 2010. The plugin was for their existing analogue cable boxes that would otherwise have been redundant.
UPC in CZ tested a MUX in parallel to its cable operations a few years back as an operator. The idea was that people could use DVB-T broadcasts from the Mux on their second TVs rather than be stuck with one dvb-c box. It was all the unencrypted "must carry" stations, not a mirror of their dvb-c service.
Most tuners these days in major manufacturer TVs are hybrid dvb-t/dvb-c anyhow. DVB-C is encrypted by most cable operators using Nagra3 and so requires a proprietary STB especially.0 -
OFCOM directed Sky to make the channels available to Top Up TV's customers in this manner.
It's also a method widely used across Europe to deliver premium content cheaper. ie: no box cost
In Ireland, Sky will not allow operators just use the CI on a TV.
They must use a CAM, which has to meet certain technical criteria, and that CAM must be embedded in a Set Top Box, which must meet more criteria.
Then, the card must be paired with the embedded CAM.
For what its worth I want actually talking about Ireland. I would have a very good understanding of encryption theory and techniques.
I was talking about Sky and their insistance on use of its Tarnovsky encryption system in its proprietary boxes on the basis of security. That it no longer the case for those who are unbundling Sky's services with the advent of CI+. Of course Sky as a provider aren't going to do that in Ireland and why would they when they can make shed loads of money. But maybe someone will see a market for wholesale unbundling here. Can see it myself as the number arent there.
The developers of CI+ (Neotion et al) have already satisfied these previous arguements. NDS is already available via CI+ - KDG Germany AFAIK.0 -
Hi, What do you mean by DVB-T over cable? They are both different platforms. One is a PAY closed platform, the other in most countries is FTA.
Kabel Deutschland use DVB-C and more recently DVB-C2.
Rekam Caiway are both cable operators as are Ziggo. Rekam uses Caiway's fibre network in addition to DVB-C. Only the PSB channels are FTA.
The use of DVB-T as a plugin was distributed because analogue was being turned off in 2010. The plugin was for their existing analogue cable boxes that would otherwise have been redundant.
UPC in CZ tested a MUX in parallel to its cable operations a few years back as an operator. The idea was that people could use DVB-T broadcasts from the Mux on their second TVs rather than be stuck with one dvb-c box. It was all the unencrypted "must carry" stations, not a mirror of their dvb-c service.
Most tuners these days in major manufacturer TVs are hybrid dvb-t/dvb-c anyhow. DVB-C is encrypted by most cable operators using Nagra3 and so requires a proprietary STB especially.
Yes, DVB-C/C2 is the standard for cable, but broadcasting DVB-T over cable also works very well.
DVB-T is just a name for a DVB standard which is used for DTT. It just modulates a carrier in a different way to DVB-C.
But the DVB-C does not work well in the UHF band. DVB-T does, which was the reason it was chosen as the standard for OTA UHF DTT distribution in the first place! It works in the same manner as OTA, as it does over cable. Re-amplification is not a problem over cable network.
So the operator now has a very viable solution to utilise the UHF band on their networks to their own advantage, as it's there to be used anyway.
Many manufacturers for cable ops are making DVB-T COFDM plug ins, along with DVB-C equipment. All this equipment is scalable, and easily inserted, and the DVB-T mux's are simply combined at the operators headend, in the same manner as DVB-C muxs.
These are two separate platforms broadcasting over the cable network. There are no mirrored mux's. But there would be dual illuminated services. ie: RTE1 on a DVB-T mux, and another RTE1 on a DVB-C mux.
So the operator is delivering....
a) an encrypted service to their addressable DVB-C box, modulated in QAM in the VHF band.
b) a clear service, mostly PSB's via DVB-T, modulated in COFDM, in the UHF band.
c) analogue in VHF.
So the operator is exploiting their entire network, to cover all platforms. The more platforms covered, the less likely customer moves to Sat or DTT.
And the purpose of all this is, as you've said with UPC CZ, the customer has a DVB-C box, but they also get the addition of a free multiiroom service, with no box!
DVB-T gets round network easy. All TVs have DVB-T tuner. It's win, win!
Big advantage over sat services.
Many operators will not advertise this service, as they promote their DVB-C, and the DVB-T just happens to be added for free.
It's very low cost as the operator only has to add plug ins to already purchased scalable front-end equipment. There is little ongoing costs and there's virtually no power consumption. It's a very powerful addition.0 -
Yes, DVB-C/C2 is the standard for cable, but broadcasting DVB-T over cable also works very well.
DVB-T is just a name for a DVB standard which is used for DTT. It just modulates a carrier in a different way to DVB-C.
But the DVB-C does not work well in the UHF band. DVB-T does, which was the reason it was chosen as the standard for OTA UHF DTT distribution in the first place! It works in the same manner OTA, as it does over cable. Re-amplification is not a problem.
So the operator now has a very viable solution to utilise the UHF band on their networks to their own advantage, as it's there to be used anyway.
Many manufacturers for cable ops are making DVB-T COFDM plug ins, along with DVB-C equipment. All this equipment is scalable, and easily inserted, and the DVB-T mux's are simply combined at the operators headend, in the same manner as DVB-C muxs.
These are two separate platforms broadcasting over the cable network, and there are no mirrored mux's.
So the operator is delivering....
a) an encrypted service to their addressable DVB-C box, modulated in QAM in the VHF band.
b) a clear service, mostly PSB's via DVB-T, modulated in COFDM, in the UHF band.
c) analogue in VHF.
So the operator is exploiting their entire network, to cover all platforms. The more platforms covered, the less likely customer moves to Sat or DTT.
And the purpose of all this is, as you've said with UPC CZ, the customer has a DVB-C box, but they also get the addition of a free multiiroom service, with no box!
DVB-T gets round network easy. All TVs have DVB-T tuner. It's win, win!
Big advantage over sat services.
Many operators will not advertise this service, as they promote their DVB-C, and the DVB-T just happens to be added for free.
It's very low cost as the operator only has to add plug ins to already purchased scalable front-end equipment. There is little ongoing costs and there's virtually no power consumption. It's a very powerful addition.
Extremely informative post there Micko - The point made about customers less likely to move to Satellite because of DVB-C & T being on the network is something I agree very much with - the quality on Saorview , even on the SD channels has been very impressive.
RTE 2 HD is going to be a massive draw for UPC now with Setanta being on there also, I hope they keep it away from 28e, because Sky will benefit massively from it imo.
Interesting times...0 -
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RTE 2 HD is going to be a massive draw for UPC now with Setanta being on there also, I hope they keep it away from 28e, because Sky will benefit massively from it imo.
I hope RTÉ2HD does get transmitted on Sky, as that would save me the trouble in having to invest in a decent aerial...I can't get UPC as my house isn't on their network, and while the "bunny ears" aerial I have is fine for the SD channels, RTÉ2HD stutters somewhat. It would be beneficial for many others in a similar situation (out of range of Saorview and/or have Sky already).
The only reason I can see for not providing it is to favour one provider over another, which the "neutral" state broadcaster really shouldn't be doing!0
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